New Member Introduction & Current Project: Optima Mid

[HKS_TRD]

Hi everyone

I've owned a few RC cars many a year ago, and just recently decided to build an Optima Mid with all the goodies.

My last RC car I owned was a Turbo Optima Mid SE which I bought brand new (only new one I had ever owned) and kind of wish I still owned it.

Prior to that I had a Hornet, Boomerang, Supershot (mint, new but assembled when I got it), Hotshot, Nichimo Midships and a brief flirtation with a Yokomo Super Dogfighter.

Before I sold my Optima Mid, I came very close to purchasing the Option House long wheelbase conversion, the store was letting it go dirt cheap but it was in the too hard basket at the time, and I would need to find a body, in those days without the internet it was near impossible for someone still at school. Yes I do kick myself now

So fast forward to today, I want to build the Mid I would always have wanted back in the day, it may end up being a shelf queen but I want to build it with all the good bits, potentially all period correct, and do some detail work like polish any metal parts, I've polished every part in the engine bay of my car and have a bit of an addiction to shiny alloy!

So far I have collected a few bits and pieces including a new LWB metal chassis, but I would really like the carbon one if possible.
My approach has been that I will probably try and find a nice SWB car and then convert it, using Lazer front suspension of it is compatible and any other parts that can make it a little unique. I consider Lazer ZX or ZX-R parts to still belong to the same era as the Mid
Also not sure where besides eBay I can find parts?

Any help appreciated and its good to see I am not alone in having a soft spot for the old school Kyosho electric buggies

[peetbee]

Welcome, still have a soft spot for the Mid and wish I hadn't sold the one I had a couple of years ago.
I don't believe that the Mid and Lazer wishbones are compatible although some other parts like driveshafts are.
Marwan and Kamtec both do LWB shells and someone has started to repro the tyres although the current ZX5 wheels fit if you want to run modern tyres on it.
Ebay is generally your best bet for Mid parts I'm afraid
Are you going for a shelfer or a runner?

[HKS_TRD]

At this stage I am building a shelf queen but I will most likely do a second runner after that

Which of the two bodies is the best one from peoples experiences?

My understanding was that if you used the hubs as well the Lazer wishbones could be used, but info was a little sketchy on that

I may do Platinum Shocks instead of Gold Shocks so I can mirror polish the top sections

I'll get a list going of the parts I have so far and what I am looking for in addition to the donor car itself, Mids seem to be scarce on eBay these days

[alcyon]

yes lazer arms can be used on the Mid, visit my blog to get more info.
http://superturbooptimamidspecialzx-5.blogspot.com/

[HKS_TRD]

Thanks for that link, just took a quick look
So do the lazer arms require any mods on the gearbox side or are they a direct replacement for the mid arms?

One other thing I have been researching is the equalizer dampers, not sure how good they are but I thought it would be cool for the shelf queen to not have gold shocks

As the equalizer dampers are only available in medium length, what front strut tower do I need to use them and will that still allow me to use the replica long wheelbase body without modifying it?

Sorry for all the questions, it seems there is so much more information out there these days than when I owned the SE

[gainsy]

This place does the lwb carbon chassis
http://www.fibre-lyte.co.uk/
Good luck with the build, wish i still had mine from the 80's

[terry.sc]

Thanks for that link, just took a quick look
So do the lazer arms require any mods on the gearbox side or are they a direct replacement for the mid arms?The complete Lazer suspension fits straight on, I used to use the Mid suspension on my on-road converted Lazer for the shorter wishbones. You will need to use the Lazer uprights with the wishbones and will need the LA-21 kingpins as the lower kingpin is longer than the Optima ones, and the upper link mount on the upright will either need part LA-29 for the ball cup if you are mounting it like the ZX, or LA-63 for the through hole upper kingpin to mount it like the ZX-R. The Mid shock towers will do fine for the inner upper link mounts, but the Lazer shock mounts will also bolt straight on. The steering arms, driveshafts and small hardware are the same between the Lazer and Mid.


One other thing I have been researching is the equalizer dampers, not sure how good they are but I thought it would be cool for the shelf queen to not have gold shocks

As the equalizer dampers are only available in medium length, what front strut tower do I need to use them and will that still allow me to use the replica long wheelbase body without modifying it?Use the Lazer ZX-R shock mount to mount the medium length dampers, it goes straight on the Mid.

Stick with the alloy chassis, it's stiffer and stronger than a carbon one. The worst chassis material for the Mid is carbon fibre.

For parts ebay is your best source, but there is also http://vintage-kyosho.com which sells the same as he does on ebay but prices are cheaper as there aren't any ebay fees involved.

[HKS_TRD]

Thanks for all that info, its very helpful.

I may try and make custom shock towers from scratch using stock mid parts as the template and then make the front one taller and also for all three only drill the holes that are actually used for the suspension mounting points, for a cleaner look
I actually remember at the time I decided not to buy the LWB conversion kit there was also a brand new Lazer ZX-R in the store, I contemplated selling my SE at that time to buy the ZX-R but it was so much more expensive than what the Mid cost new.

I understand what you are saying about the carbon chassis, however for the shelf queen it would be cool to have the genuine Kyosho carbon chassis (to get the missed opportunity of that new LWB kit out of my system!) but for the running car I'd stick with the alloy chassis

One thing I am trying to get a feel for is just how expensive or rare particular parts are, such as the front bumber that is common between the mid and Lazer, what is a reasonable price for that?

[Naushad]

A Reasonable price for that stupid kyosho bumper is a few quid. But I've seen a few go for ridiculous prices! I mean £30 for a bumper?!

[terry.sc]

One thing I am trying to get a feel for is just how expensive or rare particular parts are, such as the front bumber that is common between the mid and Lazer, what is a reasonable price for that?
You've never seen a bigger gap between worn and new parts than the OT-93 bumper. It's pretty rare these days in new condition and as even the shortest run will mark the bumper. £30-40 for a NIP one, down to unable to give away well worn ones.

Unless you are planning on building a shelf queen then don't bother paying over the odds, the first bump you hit will scratch it anyway. £3-5 will get you a reasonable one, £10-15 for a pretty good one.

BTW the worst price I saw for a new set of four OT-66 tyres before the repros was £90 :o

[HKS_TRD]

This first build is a shelf queen so I want all new parts where possible, I may build a second car that will be used a little

Following on from your post around Lazer front suspension, what is involved, assuming its compatible, to switch to Lazer rear suspension, and does ZX and ZX-R differ there?

Also if I want to run the medium length front shocks, is any Lazer front shock mount OK or I need a particular one, e.g. from the ZX-R?

[terry.sc]

The Lazer suspension front and rear just bolts straight on. The wishbones are the same width and the pivot pins are the same spacing. The ZX and ZX-R use the same suspension, the ZX-RR had different upper link mounting points but these were extensions that screwed on to the standard ZX parts.

To run medium length shocks you will want a ZX-R front shock mount, part number LAW-6. The ZX uses the short front shocks. Any of the Fibre-Lyte Lazer shock mounts should do though, I think all of them are designed for the longer shocks.

You might find the Lazer manuals useful, here's the ZX (http://www.retromodelisme.com/manuel_page/24/lazer-zx-kyosho.html) and ZX-R (http://www.retromodelisme.com/manuel_page/52/lazer-zx-r-kyosho.html) manuals.

[HKS_TRD]

Thanks for all that info, its very helpful, I just need to find all these part now, I'll have to start getting a list together

Still not sure if I want to do the front upper link mount on the upright in the ZX or ZX-R style, does one way have more wheel clearance than the other? I am planning on running the option house wheels that the Turbo Optima Mid Special came with, so far only have a front pair with tyres.

I was not aware the ZX-RR even existed, I'll have to look up more info on that one

The one part I think I may have real trouble with is the Optima Mid gearbox casings, are these know to be a really rare part?

[oli4ke]

Hi Daniel,

Just for info: I still have a source for law6 front shock tower lazer ZX-R And Ot-84 gear box set for optima mid series.

[HKS_TRD]

Do you have access to any other new mid or Lazer parts? I'll endeavour to get a list of what I need together in the next day or so. One other thing I need to figure out is when you switch to the lazer wishbones do the mid sway bars still work? Especially with the rear ones because it appears the lazer uses the mid sway bar mount location to mount the shock.

[oli4ke]

Do you have access to any other new mid or Lazer parts? I'll endeavour to get a list of what I need together in the next day or so. One other thing I need to figure out is when you switch to the lazer wishbones do the mid sway bars still work? Especially with the rear ones because it appears the lazer uses the mid sway bar mount location to mount the shock.

You have PM buddy!

[terry.sc]

Still not sure if I want to do the front upper link mount on the upright in the ZX or ZX-R style, does one way have more wheel clearance than the other? I am planning on running the option house wheels that the Turbo Optima Mid Special came with, so far only have a front pair with tyres.
The original ZX style with the long upper link works with the 3 piece option house wheels, I used to use them on my own car. You do have to shave a small bit off the corner of the ball joint as it does catch on the wheel screws at full travel, but at normal buggy ride heights it does clear the wheels.

I was not aware the ZX-RR even existed, I'll have to look up more info on that one?
Lazer range:
ZX - original car. Short front shocks, ball diff on layshaft, gear diffs
ZX-Sport - budget version. Plastic shocks, chassis, layshaft
ZX-R - Medium front shocks, slipper clutch, ball diffs
ZX-R Mk.2 - ZX-R with new shock mounts, wider front suspension, new upper link outer mounts. New chassis/top deck/motor mount to move batteries back.
ZX-RR ZX-R Mk.2 with new hyper clutch slipper and Ultimate shocks. Never sold in the UK.
A full description of the differences I wrote here. (http://www.tamiyaclub.com/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=26080&view=findpost&p=153835)

[HKS_TRD]

Thanks again for the info its much appreciated. I have been buying some parts and I am getting a little confused with what appears to be duplication. How do LA-27 & LA-59 Lazer front hub carriers differ? And also there appears to be a few different Lazer wishbone part numbers. One last question is around stabilizer bars, which ones work on the mid when you run Lazer arms front and rear? Thanks in advance. Daniel

[alcyon]

Thanks again for the info its much appreciated. I have been buying some parts and I am getting a little confused with what appears to be duplication. How do LA-27 & LA-59 Lazer front hub carriers differ? And also there appears to be a few different Lazer wishbone part numbers. One last question is around stabilizer bars, which ones work on the mid when you run Lazer arms front and rear? Thanks in advance. Daniel
La-27 is the original zx c hub and LA-59 is the newer c hub which has an additional hole inside to push the front track wider.Not only that, if you use the wider front track, the caster angle is also increased to 7 degrees. LA-59 is a bit more versatile becuase you have 2 front track widths to choose from, wide or narrow. Keep in mind if you use wide setting you must use 65.5mm CVDs. If you use the narrow setting you must use 62.5mm CVDs, LA-245. Yoou will still need some 5mm shims though if you use modern kyosho CVDs.personally speaking i prefer using a narrow front setting as i get more steering on the tight track i run on and the optima mid is a rather rear heavy car, so i need all the steering i can get.

[terry.sc]

Thanks again for the info its much appreciated. I have been buying some parts and I am getting a little confused with what appears to be duplication. How do LA-27 & LA-59 Lazer front hub carriers differ? And also there appears to be a few different Lazer wishbone part numbers. One last question is around stabilizer bars, which ones work on the mid when you run Lazer arms front and rear? Thanks in advance. Daniel
As said above the LA-59 hub carriers have a second pivot hole drilled through it to widen the track with suitable longer driveshafts. They are the same moulded parts, just with a hole drilled through them, they keep the original pivot hole so perfectly fine to use as a replacement for LA-29.

The Lazer wishbones should all be listed as LA-26. There were several production changes with different amounts of webbing to strengthen the arms, but they were all listed as part number LA-26. There are also the Lazer Alpha wishbones, part number LZ-6, which will fit but they are made of a much weaker and softer plastic as the Lazer Alpha was a basic beginners model. Any other part numbers are for the modern Lazer ZX-5, which aren't compatible with the old parts.

For anti roll bars, you know as much as anyone. They were never used on the Lazer. The Lazer anti roll bar set is part number LAW-2 if you want to try and fit them, or you can use the Optima ones. Either way you will have to drill mounting holes in the wishbones for the links, the Lazer wishbones don't have any way of mounting anti roll bars to them.

[HKS_TRD]

I have been a little swamped with work lately but in the meantime have been gathering bits and pieces, both on eBay and with some help from Oli4KE.

Once all parts in transit are in my hands I should be able to start constructing the first shelf queen, which will most likely be a Turbo Optima Mid SP built completely from scratch with new parts, though I am still trying to find a set of gold shocks in as new condition. Also can't seem to find the wide yellow option house 2 piece wheels for the rear.
The second project which has started concurrently is going to be an Optima Mid but with Lazer and aftermarket parts, as well as equalizer shocks and maybe a custom front shock tower, basically the ultimate Mid if there is such a thing. This one will start with a donor car which I have just secured from a member on this forum.

I have also picked up a Lazer ZX its in excellent condition, not far off shelf queen status though it has ZX-R wishbones and turnbuckles, along with LWB Optima Mid battery holders for some reason. I'm not sure what I will do with this, I have got the sway bar set on the way so I will post a scan of the instructions when I get them to share how on earth they mount to a Lazer.

If anyone has any parts that may be of use to my 2 mid builds please chime in.