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ryan
13-09-2006, 06:59 PM
i have started making my xxx4 in to 3x3 cell car, it is made out of thin alliminuim at the moment for a prototype but if works i will hopefully have access to the cnc machine at my school to mill it out properly with carbon fibre so it is a perfect fit, lol. only the rear is fixed at the moment and i have only cut 4 cell slots out because its really boring doing them all in one go. it will be 4 cells each side so i can adjust the weight distibution. i am also planning on making a chassis the same as this but a different cell layout with 2 cells the side of the motor and 4 the other side like the slim 4 (if i am aloud?) i have got to make the top deck yet what will hopefully be carbon fibre on the finished product. Any ideas?? i also need a name for it and my last name is pretty boring so cant use that!!!

ryN

bert digler
13-09-2006, 07:08 PM
i heard that 4 cell one side and two motor side provides the optimun balance and why dont u call it xxx4 no more

ryan
13-09-2006, 07:11 PM
i might cut 4 slots each side so i can test and layout but i might make a new chassis and turn the cells 90 degrees.

ryan

Stu
13-09-2006, 07:15 PM
No ideas, sorry.

Keep the pics coming though, some people do this sort of thing and think they are some sort of hot-shot, pretending it's all a big secret.

ryan
13-09-2006, 07:17 PM
dont worry ill keep you all informed. lol

Stu
13-09-2006, 07:26 PM
I always got on good with my XXX4, I rekon you've gotta be Trickey or Ellis Stafford types to really say the XX4 is that much better.
I'll go back to XXX4 for this winter, I think it's a cool car.
Last two years I've been F2 from nationals, but, after running the XX4 all this year I'm now back at F3, whats that tell me?

jimmy
13-09-2006, 07:29 PM
It tells you to put down your camera and concentrate on the racing ? ?? :p

you KNOW im talking the truth there stu, I have had my worst season ever and am dropping a grade also - I blame it on taking photos.

Stu
13-09-2006, 07:34 PM
Maybe.

ryan
13-09-2006, 07:38 PM
but dont stop taking photos!!!!!!

kúv!n
13-09-2006, 07:55 PM
but dont stop taking photos!!!!!!


jimmy its up to you what you choose, as long as you still take some pics!

Kev

emzy
13-09-2006, 08:38 PM
you KNOW im talking the truth there stu, I have had my worst season ever and am dropping a grade also - I blame it on taking photos.

But... you didn't do enough regionals to GET a grade... so its not like you're actually worse or anything..!

Stu
13-09-2006, 09:00 PM
Jimmy, or Me - or both?

OldTimer
13-09-2006, 09:14 PM
i am also planning on making a chassis the same as this but a different cell layout with 2 cells the side of the motor and 4 the other side like the slim 4 (if i am aloud?)

No problem Ryan, to be honest if looking at what i have done with the Slim4 gets more people to modify cars and try new things thats great, as we all win by moving car design forwards. ;)

emzy
13-09-2006, 09:19 PM
Jimmy, or Me - or both?

I meant Jimmy... I don't know about you ;)

Stu
13-09-2006, 09:37 PM
:)
Good.

jimmy
13-09-2006, 09:50 PM
emz, look at my nationals, ive been down at the bottom all year..

emzy
13-09-2006, 09:53 PM
Batley and Tiverton!

PaulRotheram
13-09-2006, 11:25 PM
i like the idea so far, very interesting! i think you will have to turn the motor mount around though, or you will have to run the motor backwards.

ryan
14-09-2006, 06:51 AM
i put the motor around that way so it didnt intefere with the servo i had to move the servo about 7mm to the right so the motor would move forward. so it would be quite hard to put the servo on the left. Would it effect the motor running it backwards, would it still be able to reach top speed?

ryan

Chris Doughty
14-09-2006, 07:15 AM
i put the motor around that way so it didnt intefere with the servo i had to move the servo about 7mm to the right so the motor would move forward. so it would be quite hard to put the servo on the left. Would it effect the motor running it backwards, would it still be able to reach top speed?

ryan


you would loose around 5,000 rpm and also make it almost impossible to run brushless motors in it.

try VERY hard to get the motor to function in its normal way.

why can't you just swap the motor for servo?

Richard Lowe
14-09-2006, 07:52 AM
you would loose around 5,000 rpm
How does that work :confused:

If you flip the endbell 180 degrees the motor has the same characteristics but spins the other way... what am I missing :study:

Chris Doughty
14-09-2006, 08:14 AM
How does that work :confused:

If you flip the endbell 180 degrees the motor has the same characteristics but spins the other way... what am I missing :study:


you not missing anything, but in practise Ellis found that he did loose a few 1,000 rpm.

strange but true?

actually, you should not flip it 180 degrees, if you had (for example) 5 degree timing, you would rotate it 170 degrees in the direction of the timing

DCM
14-09-2006, 11:17 AM
the windings are reversed, so it would alter the way the magnetic feild is generated in the winding and relation to the magnet.

Richard Lowe
14-09-2006, 11:48 AM
you not missing anything, but in practise Ellis found that he did loose a few 1,000 rpm.

strange but true?

Wierd :confused:

Col
14-09-2006, 02:50 PM
I was always told that you shouldn't run a modified motor backwards and this was the reason why powerfull esc had brakes and not reverse...
I'm probably totally wrong on that though...:smile:

ryan
14-09-2006, 03:04 PM
looks like ill have to turn it round!!! dont want it going slow!!!

ryan

Chris Doughty
14-09-2006, 03:13 PM
the windings are reversed, so it would alter the way the magnetic feild is generated in the winding and relation to the magnet.

I would go with this theory, it seems like a reasonable explaination

DCM
14-09-2006, 03:57 PM
I was always told that you shouldn't run a modified motor backwards and this was the reason why powerfull esc had brakes and not reverse...
I'm probably totally wrong on that though...:smile:

The reason for not having reverse is that the timing does funny things when in reverse.

Stu
14-09-2006, 04:23 PM
If rou asked really nicely you may be able to get someone like Glyn to wind you a motor designed to run 'backwards'.

ryan
14-09-2006, 05:17 PM
the motors round the other way now and the belt and diffs are all in. i get some pics up later.

ryan

Col
14-09-2006, 06:09 PM
The reason for not having reverse is that the timing does funny things when in reverse.

See, told you I was probably wrong!!

ryan
14-09-2006, 07:05 PM
i just need to make the top deck and cut out the last 4 cell slots now and then hopefully completed and after installing electrics ill take it around the track in my garden!!!:D


ryan

PaulRotheram
14-09-2006, 07:39 PM
has the wheelbase changed at all with the new chassis? it may be a funny angle on the picture but the car looks quite shorter than a standard xxx4.

PaulRotheram
14-09-2006, 07:41 PM
anuffer question..

what are you planning to do for a shell/undertray?

car looks like it could be a winner!

SCOTT DICKINSON
14-09-2006, 07:57 PM
I built a 4wd last year based on a xxx4 tranny. it was thinner than my Durango and the cells placed in the centre also the motor and servo and it balanced from left to right and front to back and ran 100% reliably the best thing was that it jumped amazingly and was very quick the second we ran it
ED KERRY run it at our track D.H.D racing/Xtreme RC and wanted to use it

well isay xxx4 tranny just the diffs and belt the lay shaft and clutch was mine
also tranny was sealed and made of carbon.
Just a bit of fun , it got nicknamed the flying sausage:D

good on, you keep it up! after all its good for the sport and very much fun

ps theres a thread on rcracechat called (anyone making any secret projects) they might like a look;)
my home made 2wd pics are on there also on there:)

my bro has an industrial vacuum former at xtreme rc if you need a shell send me the mould and i will see what we can do

well done

ryan
14-09-2006, 08:01 PM
thanks paul, the wheels base is exactly the same as the stadard xxx4. i have currently fitted the standard xxx4 body but the motor lump is in the wrong place and where the motor is now BRING ON THE DREMMEL!!!!!!!!!!!! lol. i also have access to a vaccum former but i dont think it will be big enough, does any one now how to mold bodys. the body is a further in the future at the moment though because i want to change cell layout which jonathon advised me on.(thank you Mr slim)


ryan

ryan
14-09-2006, 08:21 PM
thanks scott, i think i am definetly going to try and make it slimmer, ive been playing with some ideas in my head and the slimmest way is like this:

II Belt II
I Belt I
Motor

I= 1 cell

lol like my explanations?? the chassis will be quite thin then, i want to test this for the moment and use some thicker alliminuim and try a chassis like above. i want to test the car somewhere in the winter like this.

ryan

EDIT: when i post it moves all the letters to the right so the explanation isn't how it will look!!!

OldTimer
14-09-2006, 08:26 PM
Ryan worth checking to see if say a saddle pack can go on top of the lower belt without touching it ? difficult to explain.

ryan
14-09-2006, 08:40 PM
it just catches the cell so ill have to leave a small gap.:(

ryan

OldTimer
14-09-2006, 08:47 PM
Shame, would of been good to run the cells long ways in 3's. I guess the 2+2 then 1+1 way as you have said then.

SCOTT DICKINSON
14-09-2006, 09:09 PM
I bought the belt up over the servo cells and motor and the lower belt side nearly touched the upper and the chasis was 7cm wide at the widest and the wheel base was 3mm shorter than the bj4 mark1

the tranny had the tensioner just infront /above the servo and never suffered belt slip even when it was fitted with sch yellow full spikes and a 6single with clutch locked up on long grass
the reason i built it was that i was challenged to build a slim car that had a very low cg,and balanced front to back and left to right.
so i chose the losi diffs because they are centraly driven and slimmer

the only trouble i encountered was it ran slightly hot and i think this was caused by a slight missallignment of the tranny case making the belt thrust slightly to the left, therefore tightening
could have probably sorted it but i just slung it in a cupboard and started something else:)
hopefully this might give you some ideas:confused:

Northy
14-09-2006, 09:18 PM
Pictures Scott?

G

SCOTT DICKINSON
14-09-2006, 09:35 PM
of which car?:confused:

ryan
15-09-2006, 07:02 AM
pictures of the car you made. how did you fix the servo was it stood up?

ryan

SCOTT DICKINSON
15-09-2006, 06:02 PM
I will try and dig some out:cool:
no the servo was flat on the chasis and so were the rest of the internals:)
im thinking about having another crack at it now i have a mill and lathe

ryan
15-09-2006, 06:24 PM
cool, i have made the top deck now i need to cut out the other cells slots then i can run it. when you tried your modified xxx4 what oils and pistons did you run?

ryan

SCOTT DICKINSON
15-09-2006, 06:29 PM
Kit i think, it wasnt set up at all it got slightly hot ,and i went to mexico for a while came back and sold all the spares diffs shocks etc to a mate
think it had 40 in the front and 30 in the rear.
sorry not much help maybe a losi driver should advise you

ryan
15-09-2006, 08:06 PM
Done the top deck now and cut the last 4 cell slots. i want to try this layout as well as the slim design and im going to give the 3x3 and the 2x4 layout ago first. i think i might run 35wt front and 30wt rear and a bigger hole piston in the rear for a setup and play from there. What do you think?

Scott: did your modified xxx4 handle the bumps any good?

ryan

ryan
15-09-2006, 08:07 PM
forgot the pic. lol

xx4-nutter
15-09-2006, 08:36 PM
that looks cool, similer to the mr4 bx , ish lol. you gonna get the alumintium all done in carbon fibre ?

ryan
15-09-2006, 08:38 PM
yegh all in carbon fibre but there is alot of testing i want to do with different cell layouts first. oldtimer was telling me how long the slim 4 took and he told me that these things take time so i am going to do a few differnt layout and test in my garden.

ryan

xx4-nutter
15-09-2006, 08:49 PM
it looks really good, so ur going ot try all cell lay outs then, i think setting it like the x factory x5 would work well ?

SCOTT DICKINSON
15-09-2006, 08:53 PM
hello
i do have pics of my old 4wd 7cms wide and a vid of her running, the prob is that they are on my mobile and i have tried all night to send them to my pc then upload them and i cant:(
if someone pm's me a mobile number i can send them to that,and if they were even kinder and flasher could put them on this thread some how to help out Ryan:)
CHEERS
SCOTT

ryan
15-09-2006, 09:00 PM
....

super__dan
16-09-2006, 08:12 AM
Layout looks virtually same as X5 layout now, obviously chazz decided the 4+2 is needed as 2 cells nearly weighs as much as the motor so it's balanced.

Looks good though!

ryan
16-09-2006, 02:19 PM
RL1 protopye comleteted!!!! tested it on my track in the garden and its amazing!!!! its not quite setup at the moment but i was taking about 2 seconds a lap of my 2wd time and its a very short track. the belt slips a bit because the chassis is a tiny bit flexible and when you make it go flat out to full brake it's putting a lot of strain on the chassis and causing it bend a few mm so the belt can slip. please excuse my bod wiring as the speedo needs to go back in my b4 so i couldnt cut the wires!!! lol i ran it with a 13*3 with a 17t pinioun and it was quick!!! it didnt get that hot either.:D

ryan

Lusikka
21-10-2006, 01:13 PM
Hi!

Has anyone really tried this kind of cell layout as shown in the attachment on their XXX-4? It seems that it would be easy to try it out. You would only have to make a place for the servo. If this cell layout could improve the handling, we would have a very cheap conversion kit indeed. This seems so easy that I'm sure someone has pointed this to be useless?

I'm really interested on this conversion too! A slipper similar to the X-5 would be cool too.