DEX210 terrible in the Wet!!! Help please :)

[RichyUK]

Hi guys,

i've taken up racing again after about 18 years away from it! Started with my DEX410 and am getting on very well. I have also purchased a 210 to get into 2WD as well as 4WD. This is new to me as i never raced 2wd when i was younger.

So, i purchased a lovely 210 off of here, it had a few mods, such as the cream front end, i've also got around 25g weight under the servo (maybe this is an issue??). Its running MM4 config, pretty much all else as should be and set up using a set up sheet for Eden Park from the Durango site.

So, in the dry the car is fantastic, i feel very confortable pushing it, but as soon as the track gets a bit wet its a nightmare. This is mainly on Astroturf. The car will understear when trying to power a little and then just lose the back end in an instant.

My first time out it was wet all day, and i found i have the ESC set up wrong, far too punchy, and no expo on the throttle. Now ive sorted them, using expo has made it MUCH nicer to drive when wet, but i just cannot push at all. I can put in OK times, but i lose way too much time to people that i was matching in the dry.

What can i do to help in this situation please?? :thumbsup:

[SamRCRacing]

What tyres did you have on the rear?

[Chris-S]

Current setup ?

[Si Coe]

I think you'll find its not really as bad as it looks.
Most 2wds are hard work when its wet - the issue with the 210 is that in the dry it seems so balanced and effortless that the wet weather handling comes as a shock!

[RichyUK]

What tyres did you have on the rear?

Schu yellows in dry, greens in wet, medium inserts.

Current setup ?

will double check against the set up sheet i used

I think you'll find its not really as bad as it looks.
Most 2wds are hard work when its wet - the issue with the 210 is that in the dry it seems so balanced and effortless that the wet weather handling comes as a shock!

yeah i did think that, and that im really not used to 2WD, but in the dry i was fine, was driving it nicely in the wet but clearly could not push as hard as what the leaders were once it rained.

[mattr]

I think you'll find its not really as bad as it looks.
Most 2wds are hard work when its wet - the issue with the 210 is that in the dry it seems so balanced and effortless that the wet weather handling comes as a shock!Tell me about it............ couldn't even get mine down the straight without crashing........

[SamRCRacing]

If you are using shu greens go to ballistic greens in the wet, if you are using them it will be your setup or the surface of the track if everyone has the same problem.

[RichyUK]

If you are using shu greens go to ballistic greens in the wet, if you are using them it will be your setup or the surface of the track if everyone has the same problem.

ok i can give those a try :)

i guess i'm wondering whether people do just change tyres once it rains or whether they alter setup too, ie camber, etc?

[SamRCRacing]

The main thing is tyres, I tried shu greens and the car was all over the place, then tried the ballistics and felt a lot more grippy and easy to drive.

[RichyUK]

The main thing is tyres, I tried shu greens and the car was all over the place, then tried the ballistics and felt a lot more grippy and easy to drive.

ah ok, sounds good, i shall defo try that!

[Cream]

Green ballistics for the win :-)

Can't give any help on setup as I'm useless but Green ballistics make a massive difference.

[MatJohnson]

If you are running at EPR silvers worked quite well in the wet. But that was 4wd, might be worth a go in 2wd

[Frecklychimp]

Get a pair of rear dBoots Multibyte B's to try too, i find they give more forward traction in wet than Ballistic greens... depends on astro tough as some tracks they are not so good

I swap from 6.5T to 8.5T motor when its wet, much smoother and less aggressive so helps keep traction.

backing of the slipper a little can help too

:thumbsup:

[SamRCRacing]

I tried silvers on my x2c, they worked but not as well as the ballistics. There was only a small difference and the Schumacher silvers rip quite easily I have found.

Sam

[SamRCRacing]

Forgot about them, someone tried them at Surrey and Hants and loved them.

[steveproracing]

If u want to try setup changes. Things I would do in the wet are:-
1 shorten rear wbase. Fully forward makes aassive difference to rear grip on the 210
2. Drop a spring rate all round
3. Stand rear shock up for more forward drive

Tyres are the biggest change though in wet. Bb greens for the rear
Green cut staggers on front for astro only
If grass part of track then use schuey green minispikes and tune steering by removal of spikes
Hth

[Aran]

I use silver mini spikes on wet grass and it works okay, main thing is to be sensitive on the throttle though.

You could also switch the car to RM3 when its wet, would help I imagine.

[Anibal Henriques]

Dboots Multibyte B on wet astro stick like glue ,for the rear, for the front try Dboots Multibyte A Slim, Baalistic green also work good with a nice Schum minisoike yellow on front.
Dex 210 works well in every typ of surface , with is multy option setup it is a question off working good the setup:thumbsup:

[jkclifford]

All the above is good advice but ultimatly you have to change the way you drive. for epr you will be amazed how fast a 13.5 an be in a 2wd. 27/28 pinion nice and smooth power delivery, big dolop of boost for the straight.

[TonyM]

Much of the above advice goes for me too. The real difference comes from the tyres. I've found Schuy Greens are useless compared to Ballistic Greens, or even Pinks if it is very wet.

Remove all the extra weight from the front and put some in the rear e.g. Cream rear battery block, Cream rear brass retainer, lead under the rear half of the lipo etc.

I also swap from 6.5 to 8.5 motor for a smoother drive.

[mrspeedy]

Couple of other things to try that I have found useful when its slippy, kit light blue springs, long wheelbase on the rear, and wind out the slipper til, it screams :woot:

[RichyUK]

thanks for all the advice people :)

looks like im going wrong with the tyres for sure. Im only running an 8.5 motor and i have adjusted the ESC and expo to make it much nicer to drive, and i do drive smoothly, it just seems to let go too easily.

i'll also give shifting weight around a try :)

[Richard Lowe]

...The car will understear when trying to power a little and then just lose the back end in an instant...
Welcome to the world of mid motor 2wd's... :bored:

The only mid motor 2wd I've driven in low traction that doesn't behave as you describe is the Centro, you just have to adapt your driving style for the most part. In general the mid motor cars understeer on power then the window of neutral balance you have between that and snap oversteer is very small, rule of thumb is to be squared up and accelerate in a straight line if at all possible.

The flip side is the mid cars usually have a higher minimum speed through the corner, so you don't need to get on the gas quite as early and drive the car with the throttle as you would with a rear motor.

[AmiSMB]

When wet I use BB Green or BB Pink if really wet and some Schumacher slim green on the front. I also want to try changing the toe in on the rear when it is wet as I think this will help alot.

[hotrodchris]

If it's really wet DBoots all the way in b compound!

[steveuk]

Mine was horrible in damp/wet, I fitted a gear diff from the start. Thought I would try ball diff which improved things no end. I also went down couple of spring rates on rear.

Aren't Schumacher greens quite hard? I think Schumacher tyres go from blue (hard), green, yellow. Ballistic greens are soft which is why they work in damp/wet.

[danharding]

Schumacher and Ballistic Greens are two different types of rubber all together Its not just the stiffness that's different as far as I'm aware.

[RichyUK]

Thanks for all the help so far guys! forgot to say i am on a gear diff, but i actually think it felt better in the dry and wet than the ball diff i had.

will defo start to experiment with tyres!

[Big G]

I couldn't get on with mine at all using the geared diff. no matter how light the oil was in it. put the ball diff in and it was decent.

I have to agree with Richard the centro is such a nice car to drive in the damp. I swapped from the DEX210 to C4.1 recently.

[martgifford]

If you are running at EPR silvers worked quite well in the wet. But that was 4wd, might be worth a go in 2wd


+1. Silvers on 2wd when wet. Quicker then green. IMO

[ridgeracer]

I would say drop the gear diff. A gear diff with heavy oil or a tight balldiff will behave just like you describe. Almost like a locked diff. Pushing bad or spinning out because the rear wheels are trying to go equal fast.

[RichyUK]

I would say drop the gear diff. A gear diff with heavy oil or a tight balldiff will behave just like you describe. Almost like a locked diff. Pushing bad or spinning out because the rear wheels are trying to go equal fast.


The car felt much nicer with the gear diff in the dry and wet than when I previously ran with the ball diff. It's only running 750 cst oil IIRC.

[RichyUK]

Just to revisit this thread, thanks for all the advice guys. Ran the car on grass a couple of weeks ago, all was good, although i still felt like i was i little low on rear end traction.

So, i've rebuild the ball diff with b-fast balls and rings, and refitted. I've also done the high rear wing mod.

My (not so) scientific test was to run the car in front of my workshop which is covered in shingle. With the gear diff it would break traction, mainly when the turbo came in, but would just rotate. I've fitted the ball diff and ran it again today on the same surface and its 1000 times better! it now pulls straight if it tries to kick out.

Not sure how much the wing mod helps? But the diff is certainly waaaay better. Im not convinced that its because its the ball instead of gear diff, but more that i was running too thin gear oil in it....