Clueless Newbie

[GE90]

Hi all

I have an Ansmann Mad Monkey, and getting frustrated by the juddering when pulling away. It seems I need to go sensorless, but what combo?

Looked at the Speed Passion Revention R, but might be over the top for an amature, as I don't need too much adjustment - I'll just get confused!

What are peoples toughts? I do like the look of the Speed Passion range. Preferably deans, with switch and fan. Must have reverse..

Thanks!

[metalmickey0]

I too have a Mad Monkey but i dont get any juddering. I run a Bullistorm esc and an Ezrun 4300kva sensorless motor with no probs if that any help. Mine keeps up easily with others at our track who run things like Durangos and Losi.

[GE90]

Thanks, but even more confused now..... I thought sensorless had to be the way ahead!

[jj_edwards07]

Are you on 40mhz or 2.4ghz? I had some crazy things going on, mostly juddering at high speed and occasionally at low speed, tried all different electrics then did the 2.4ghz frsky mod to my transmitter and it's smooth as anything now

[CrashBangWallop]

Simply put, Sensored is better than Sensorless.

Sensored - the speed controller knows exactly where the rotor is while it is rotating via the sensor lead so starts and slow speed control of the motor is smoother - no 'cogging' or stuttering

Sensorless - the speed controller does not know where the rotor in the motor is so slower control of the motor sometimes means 'cogging' or stuttering starts but once the rotor picks up a bit of speed generally everything is ok.

[sosidge]

Hi all

I have an Ansmann Mad Monkey, and getting frustrated by the juddering when pulling away. It seems I need to go sensorless, but what combo?

Looked at the Speed Passion Revention R, but might be over the top for an amature, as I don't need too much adjustment - I'll just get confused!

What are peoples toughts? I do like the look of the Speed Passion range. Preferably deans, with switch and fan. Must have reverse..

Thanks!

If you have the motor that is supplied with a Mad Monkey RTR - then that is sensorless, and juddering from a standstill is typical of sensorless systems.

For a smooth start you need a SENSORED system which is what all racers use.

The SP Reventon is fine, I had the Stock Club Race version for a while recently until I blew it up (my fault) The amount of adjustment available on them is not particularly large unless you start messing with the boosted stock1 firmware. To be honest I can't think if anything very simple that is raceworthy.

You will also need a sensored motor to go with the ESC.

[GE90]

Thanks for the replies guys. Yes standard sensorless. So what do we think to these:

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/speed-passion-reventon-r-esc-2s-silver/rc-car-products/368090

or

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/speed-passion-reventon-s-esc-2s-silver/rc-car-products/368088

and

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/speed-passion-v3.0-competition-bl-10.5t/rc-car-products/35157

Not sure what the difference is between the s and r. Perhaps the s doesn't have reverse? All very confusing!

Appreciate any more help before I order......

Yes, running 2.4GHz, so the transmitter mod sounds interesting....?

Thanks

[knighthawk]

The Reventon S is a 40 Amp ESC and has a motor limit of 9.5
The Reventon R is a 70 Amp ESC and has a motor limit of 5.5
The Reventon PRO is a 140 Amp ESC and has a motor limit of 3.5

[CrashBangWallop]

If you are already running 2.4Ghz then there is no need to do the FRsky modification. This usually means converting an older 40Mhz transmitter to run 2.4Ghz - Ideal if you have an expensive transmitter that you would like to keep on using but want to run 2.4Ghz, like an old Futaba Field Force 3 or older KO Propo systems.

[GE90]

The Reventon S is a 40 Amp ESC and has a motor limit of 9.5
The Reventon R is a 70 Amp ESC and has a motor limit of 5.5
The Reventon PRO is a 140 Amp ESC and has a motor limit of 3.5

Thanks, just not sure which one would best suit my needs. To be safe, I though I would stick to the same 10.5T as standard, otherwise I would need to change the gear??

What is the significance of the Amps? I am runnning LiPo stick pack.

Thanks

[knighthawk]

Personally I'd go for the 'R' if you can afford it.

The 'S' has a limit of 9.5 so would run the 10.5 but it limits further upgrades in motor and is running close to the limit, plus you get extra software advantages with the 'R', much more adjustability like the Hybrid Boost feature..

[GE90]

Personally I'd go for the 'R' if you can afford it.

The 'S' has a limit of 9.5 so would run the 10.5 but it limits further upgrades in motor and is running close to the limit, plus you get extra software advantages with the 'R', much more adjustability like the Hybrid Boost feature..

OK, great, thanks. Is this pretty much plug and play, I.e. easy to set up with the supplied program card? Is there a fan that will fit? Sorry, but what is the boost. Again, easy to set up? Just don't want to get frustrated by not understanding what I end up buying!!

Cheers

[GE90]

Also, what gear would I need if I went for the 9.5T or 8.5T?

Cheers

[dodgydiy]

still dont count on being judder free, i run sensorless in everything and there are several drivers at the club who run sensored whose cars are not as smooth off the line as mine is. try gearing down slightly and if you can, try different timing settings on the speedo, believe me that can help a lot

[knighthawk]

OK, great, thanks. Is this pretty much plug and play, I.e. easy to set up with the supplied program card? Is there a fan that will fit? Sorry, but what is the boost. Again, easy to set up? Just don't want to get frustrated by not understanding what I end up buying!!

Cheers


Both the S and R are supplied with a LED Program Card and Fan

To be honest though i've only got the Pro Version and is dead simples to setup !!

I'm getting the 'R' Versions for my 11 year old as i'm so impressed

[knighthawk]

still dont count on being judder free, i run sensorless in everything and there are several drivers at the club who run sensored whose cars are not as smooth off the line as mine is. try gearing down slightly and if you can, try different timing settings on the speedo, believe me that can help a lot

If a Sensored System is juddering or Clogging then there's a problem, something is wrong and needs to be addressed !!

[GE90]

Right, so sensored it is I think. If I go for a 8.5T instead of the 10.5T replacement, what gear do I need? How do I gear it down?

Getting there! Thanks

[GE90]

So just not sure what gearing I need if I go from a standard 10T to 8.5T motor....? Both brushless... Thanks

[12-nitroman]

if you have the rtr mad monkey,the brushless that they come with is sensorless and is totally rubbish.it cog's so much that you'd think its faulty.the esc is rubbish.for a budget cost the EZ run esc's are easy to setup and use.the motors are not bad actually,its the esc.
i do have a hpi flux reload which is the same as the Ez run which i could sell to you for 27 quid posted.

thanks
hope that helps.

[GE90]

Sorry, so this is the ESC, but I would also to change the motor to sensored to completely sort the judder??

[mattr]

Sorry, so this is the ESC, but I would also to change the motor to sensored to completely sort the judder??Yes.
A decent ESC will improve the situation slightly, (when you run it in sensorless mode, but not all can do this) but to fix the problem properly, a complete sensored system (motor, esc, sensor wire) will be needed. As there is no way of converting a sensorless motor to sensored.
My first car had a sensorless system (actually a pretty good one, as these things go), and by mucking around with settings and pinions you could get it pretty smooth on take off, but on going to sensored, it was actually quite a struggle to have it NOT start smoothly!
If you are going to change both the spec of the motor (less turns) and a new ESC, it's probably worth dropping a few quid on 2 or 3 new pinions, if the current car runs a 21 (for instance, get yourself a 20 and a 19 and maybe 18 (?) to start with. Or if you are at the club, tap up one of the friendly guys and trial a few different sizes one evening, we seem to chop and change fairly regularly in our club. (i'm currently experimenting with a smaller spur that i borrowed off a club mate, and i've had a pinion or two off him as well!)
FWIW, i have run a 6.5, 8.5 and 10.5 (all sensored) in the same car. 20 or 21 for the 6.5, 23 or 24 on the 8.5 and a 26 on the 10.5 (biggest pinion i can fit!) so a fair range.

[haggis]

I run a reedy sensorless that comes with the b4.1 rtr. The only time i get juddering is pulling up to the start line slowly.

Ive had 2 different motors in it And its the same on both. Dont think its a sensorless issue, probably just a set up thing but i prefer to keep things simple. Less wires less hassle!

Before shelling out for another combo i would borrow someone elses sensorless speedo to make sure you dont just need another esc

[DerbyDan]

A sensorless ESC will ALWAYS 'cog' to a certain degree... better sensorless speed controls however will cog less but a sensored speed controller will always be better off the line (so long as its working correctly)

All brushless speed controllers need to know where the rota inside is in relation to the three coils inside the motor in order to maintain control of it. A sensored motor does this with (ahem) a sensor - from pretty much standing still the ESC knows where the rota is inside hence a smooth pull-away - a sensorless ESC on the other hand uses the 'back EMF' from the coils inside created by the rota (permanent magnet) spinning to know where it is... to get the motor spinning from a standstill the ESC fires the coils in a set sequence to 'force' the motor to spin - it takes a little while for the speedo to work out where it is (hence the 'cogging') - once its up & running the control should be smooth.... there is an argument that a sensorless motor/esc combo has the potential to be faster... but at the expense of off-the-line smoothness.

[GE90]

Thanks for all of the advice guys. So it looks like a reasonably decent sensored combo would be a worthwhile investment! Liking the look of the new Speed Passion Revention ESC and motor. Anyone have and suggestions for alternatives? No more than say £100 - £120 ish.

Thanks again.....

[sosidge]

The Reventon combos look alright. Go for one of the milder motor options at first as the ESC has a 9.5T limit but seems to be sold with faster motors than the limit in some places. It also has the backing of a proper UK distributor.

I had a Reventon Club Stock for a little while myself, couldn't complain about it at all, although I did blow it up (my mistake).