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tisher
20-10-2012, 11:10 AM
Great night last night guys crazy amount of people racing more than 70 I think fantastic race control as always run very smooth. Great to to see so many helping pack away and clean up :thumbsup:

suggy007
20-10-2012, 11:36 AM
Great that the mardaves have moved with the times i think the modified class championship will be very interesting this series.
I think it would be a good idea for all drivers to publish what esc and motor they are using just to keep tracks that everyone is legal for the championship.

Gavin Collingwood
20-10-2012, 12:46 PM
What is interesting is that a nimh brushed set up won the A final..... :-) get in!

Andy-j.smith6
20-10-2012, 01:35 PM
Sounds like it was a good night. I was travelling back from Germany so missed.

Car is now sorted, hopefully, so will be there next week with any luck.

tisher
20-10-2012, 05:04 PM
What is interesting is that a nimh brushed set up won the A final..... :-) get in!

yea but people are supposed to drive round people in the final not through them I was in 1st place until I kept getting driven into there was also some very dubious lap times in that final 8 sec laps not in this life time lmfao

tisher
20-10-2012, 05:07 PM
Great that the mardaves have moved with the times i think the modified class championship will be very interesting this series.
I think it would be a good idea for all drivers to publish what esc and motor they are using just to keep tracks that everyone is legal for the championship.

I think thats a really good idea as mine is a core rc esc running a 95c one cell on a tekin 13.5 and I was slow compared to some the strange thing is tho there is a few of us that are exactly the same speed your car suggy and mine were identical down the straight and i bet your running a different 13.5t motor so why are others alot quicker:)

Gavin Collingwood
20-10-2012, 06:32 PM
I had a clean race and always make clean manouvers if i take someone out i generally stop and let them go back through, (seems old skool these days but back when we used to race touring cars back in the day that kind of sportsmanship was encouraged, less so these days with no commentary and auto starts) and to be fair I think every one had 1 8 second lap at some point.

suggy007
20-10-2012, 06:34 PM
I am using a novak gtb2 esc with a Fusion exceed 13.5t motor. The esc is permanently in blinky mode.
I know dan,kev and dobs all have blinky mode turned on and all have 13.5t motors all legal.
I know there are certain 13.5t motors are a lot faster than others but they are all brca legal for the championship.
I think we need someone doing spot checks to see if we r all in blinky mode and using 13.5t motors otherwise i can imagine people will start adjusting timings etc and the racing will get out of hand.

tisher
20-10-2012, 07:13 PM
I had a clean race and always make clean manouvers if i take someone out i generally stop and let them go back through, (seems old skool these days but back when we used to race touring cars back in the day that kind of sportsmanship was encouraged, less so these days with no commentary and auto starts) and to be fair I think every one had 1 8 second lap at some point.


unfortantly I was not one of the 8 sec ones:lol: but I agree even tho its mardave you should make sure you take people cleanly not go through them I ended up with a 20sec lap because of it and lost the lead :(

coleman758
20-10-2012, 07:18 PM
It's the abilitys that's the issue.
The lower abilities are racing with the faster cars.

I'm running a Tekin RSpro & Reedy Sonic Lipo with a 13.5 RX2

Gavin Collingwood
20-10-2012, 07:49 PM
Basically you can expect crashes to happen with a tight track and with it being mardaves which are lightweight and sometimes twitchy but it should be announced more about racing sportsmanship, if you havent found a gap then you've no way through even if your faster. It's about putting pressure on and waiting for a gap to appear or them to make a mistake

Gavin Collingwood
20-10-2012, 07:52 PM
Also a common problem I see on a numerous places I've raced is back markers not being aware of race leaders and not moving over and then racing them and in the end taking them out this is one thing that should be clamped down on at more clubs as its very annoying

tisher
20-10-2012, 08:03 PM
I know mardave is more of a fun class that was the reason I have gone back to it from the buggys because I want a bit of fun racing on a friday night.
But when you get taken out when you are leading is a bit annoying

im just abit worried that running a modified class my take the fun out of it but there was a few cars in the heat and final that looked lost in it:o

Gavin Collingwood
20-10-2012, 08:50 PM
Run more heats with less drivers is the solution A,B and C final. That way you get more people winning finals

Gavin Collingwood
20-10-2012, 08:51 PM
But then again with 70 drivers it would be difficult

coleman758
20-10-2012, 11:47 PM
Yep, That would be the idea scenario, But its not going to happen in the time scale. Ribble Valley is doing great at the moment, The only hold back is the time.

Also could one of the Race Controllers / Committee confirm what the agreed drivers cap was? I'm sure we said 65.

With well over 70, That could have made enough time for a 3rd heat?

Gavin Collingwood
21-10-2012, 12:41 AM
It's a very nice problem to have, as I find it amazing that in this climate over 70 drivers is amazing! Very well done! I had a brilliant night well beyond my expectations first time back with a mardave in years and qualified for the A final in the chaotic first heat and then won it from 8th! All in all not too many complaints on a great layout especially for mardaves and very well run meeting

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 01:18 AM
Some good post and ribble is a great club good to see the hall packed:woot::woot:

as for me kev and dobs we are all running bilinky mode and 13.5 motor as they have not changed since the nationals last weekend.... As for timing advancing on motors it does not state in the rules that you cant avance the timing or not it only refairs to the timing modes of the actual speedo... the Rules a almost the same as the GT12 national rules for Ribble.... We was able to advance the timing at the nationals, the aim of these new rules is to try and bring them in line with the GT12 rules at national level, which most clubs around the uk are now running at with this new and up and coming class...

if you have any issue relating to the rules or need them explaining in more depth, see with Kev..


me- Tekin rs pro(bilinky mode) Reedy Sonic 13.5 (20 degee timing) lipos-Noram,orca and (My new orion Carbons will be raced on friday first time out)

Kev is same as me....

Cheers
Dan Critchley

singin pete
21-10-2012, 09:50 AM
75 is limit that was agreed at the agm. We left the hall at 11.25 which is far to late. I have to say after asking for help to pack up the responce was fantastic and we really thank all who stayed to help.
If we get the same numbers next week we will change the format to 2 six minutes heats and a six minute final unless we start at 7.20 we would have to close booking in at 7.00.
The problem with lowering the number to 60 is a lot of racers will be disappointed.
I will have to have a chat with Eric about the mardaves re-scrutineering.

ericd2477
21-10-2012, 02:25 PM
:lol:No 2 motors seem to be the same ! But the Tin cans were close and thats why we had that class. Now we have moved on to Lipo we need to understand if any aproved motors and speed controllers are faster than others. Yes we have used the GT12 rules as a base for our current championship but if the majority of Mardave drivers want to tweak them so be it. As for scrutineering I am not skilled enough to know if someone is cheating with the new brushless setup so I will not be scrutineering.

RudolfXC
21-10-2012, 03:05 PM
You just need to check that the motor is a 13.5 turn and that the LED is blinking at neutral.

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 03:16 PM
:lol:No 2 motors seem to be the same ! But the Tin cans were close and thats why we had that class. Now we have moved on to Lipo we need to understand if any aproved motors and speed controllers are faster than others. Yes we have used the GT12 rules as a base for our current championship but if the majority of Mardave drivers want to tweak them so be it. As for scrutineering I am not skilled enough to know if someone is cheating with the new brushless setup so I will not be scrutineering.

Hi Eric,

As rudolf said in his post just need to cheak the motor and the speedo are on the Blinky settings, me and Kev will be more than happy to lead a hand prior to the races starting.

Eric I have a PDF of the approved motors, lipo and also Blinky speedos approved I will get Kev to email them to you.

Kind regards
Dan

singin pete
21-10-2012, 03:28 PM
If there is going to be any question raised it should be a non mardaves racer who scrutineers. If someone wants to show me on Friday I will do it

ericd2477
21-10-2012, 03:38 PM
:lol:Peter, I have tried to study this technology and it seems quite difficult to be sure that the timing has not been advanced even if you are an electronics geek. Also how do you know if the speedo was set on blinky or not when the car was on the track. This is a minefield and I am not sure how to control it. We need to have a word with Kevin and find a way forwards. Eric

singin pete
21-10-2012, 04:38 PM
If this is something we cannot control lets go back to tin can. This is something we should of sorted before the league

suggy007
21-10-2012, 05:08 PM
Just give all drivers racing in the mardave modified class written instructions when they book in.
To be honest even in the tin can class you can cheat and use faster tin cans which look like the mardave motors. It is all down to honesty really.
Look what happened to lance armstrong cheats do not prosper.
Ive raced against kev and dobs for years and they have never really had faster cars they were just faster getting around the track due to better setups and better driving.I hate them both lol:D

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 06:34 PM
If there is going to be any question raised it should be a non mardaves racer who scrutineers. If someone wants to show me on Friday I will do it

Sounds gud pete, if you pm me ur email I will send you the upto date list of motor speedo and lipos

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 06:38 PM
:lol:Peter, I have tried to study this technology and it seems quite difficult to be sure that the timing has not been advanced even if you are an electronics geek. Also how do you know if the speedo was set on blinky or not when the car was on the track. This is a minefield and I am not sure how to control it. We need to have a word with Kevin and find a way forwards. Eric

Eric

No Friday I will show you, on my speedo it blinks when not applying the throttle that means its in Blinky mode. And same goes for most other speedo ( their should be a visual flashing LED on the speedo ( Blinky )

I think all the Mardave driver should get together on Friday before racing and put this one to bed.

How does this sound?

Kind Regards
Daniel

coleman758
21-10-2012, 07:17 PM
But the know one should be using RSpro's
They are over the price limit?

We're do we draw the line?

tisher
21-10-2012, 07:24 PM
I think you can only run the series at club level with honesty is the best policy rule if people want to cheat then they are only cheating themselfs and at the end of the day it only a bit of fun on a friday night:lol:

coleman758
21-10-2012, 07:36 PM
:cry::cry:

that's me told!

suggy007
21-10-2012, 07:39 PM
Also with some esc like mine which is brca approved for mardaves you can not adjust the timing you can only give it basic settings so it does not have blinky.Impossible to cheat.
Novak gtb2

tisher
21-10-2012, 07:52 PM
:cry::cry:

that's me told!


:lol:well Gail always says its your 3rd son on the phone when you ring but at least I have not shouted at you like I did at Vaughn in his final today lmafo:lol:

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 08:44 PM
But the know one should be using RSpro's
They are over the price limit?

We're do we draw the line?

Say you who has one lol

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 08:45 PM
I think you can only run the series at club level with honesty is the best policy rule if people want to cheat then they are only cheating themselfs and at the end of the day it only a bit of fun on a friday night:lol:

Is this aimed at me Martin

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 08:54 PM
Is this aimed at me Martin

lol .....

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 09:06 PM
hi guys on a more serious note i really feel that us GT12 guy should get together on friday and have a quick chat about this class , as i for one love racing my brushless also need the pratice with it as the driving standard at the national events is far higher.... the GT!2 at the 12th National are scary quick and i mean it the will put us lot a ribble to shame.... believe me...

As for the question to that was asked by Mat it don't state any where in the club rule about price of speedo so (Guess what Tekin RS PRO is allowed) only states a maximum on brushed speedo..£65.00

Here are the club rules off KEv Appleby PC as he wrote them and he is the Mardave / GT12 Rep.....

RVRCCC GT12 Rules
Racing Classes
1.1 Brushed motors – these to be the G2 2010 motor only.
1.2 Modified – either the G2 motor or a brushless motor with a minimum wind of 13.5 turns.
1.3 Only one drive motor is allowed per car.

Chassis and Components
2.1 The chassis is to consist of one continuous sheet of metal or glass/carbon fibre that extends from a minimum 10mm ahead of the front axle line and runs continuously along the car to end 25mm minimum behind the rear axle line. The chassis may not include any feature designed to allow the front and rear axle to rotate along the central axis of the car relative to each other. (The aim is that the chassis supports all the suspension components and is sufficiently rigid not to be used as a working part of the suspension system).
2.2 The material of the chassis must be available from the manufacturer in a kit available at or below a price limit of £99.95 (The aim is that it is not solely available as an upgrade to a rolling chassis kit).
2.3 Metal materials used in the rolling chassis may only be steel or aluminium. Special materials such as titanium are not allowed. Brass and lead only may be used as identifiable weights to meet the weight limit and when removed do not have any effect on the cars function as a rolling chassis.
2.4 All suspension systems must operate independently of the chassis.
2.5 Separate dampers are only allowed on the rear suspension and must be of the non-sealed straw or tube style. Those requiring seals to prevent the egress of oil are not allowed.
2.6 The front suspension may be independent provided that the suspension design does not have any pivot, rod or other mechanism that alters the wheel camber in roll relative to the chassis during its full travel. (The aim is to bar the use of suspension systems used on Touring Cars, GT10, 12th and F1 cars.
2.7 The rear axle must be a solid straight axle for the brushed class but may be fitted with an integral differential for the modified class.
2.8 Only a fixed speed transmission is allowed.
2.9 Gears to be of either 32DP or 48DP.
2.10 Rolling chassis kits may not have a recommended retail price higher than £99.95.
2.11 A rolling chassis kit may exclude all electrics and bodyshell but must include one complete set of wheels and tyres suitable for use on a carpet racing surface.
2.12 Ballraces are allowed on both front and rear axles.
2.13 Cars may only have two driven wheels with drive to the rear axle.
2.14 Minimum ground clearance under the car is 3mm (1mm under the spur gear).
Electrics/Electronics
3.1 Speed controllers may not be equipped with any form of automatic or programmable timing advance. If this feature is available then it must be disabled such as in the ‘blinking’ mode.
3.2 If using a sensorless speed controller the above rule does not apply.
3.3 Brushed speed controllers are without restriction providing they have an operating reversing function and are available with a recommended retail price not exceeding £65.
3.4 Cars with G2 brushed motors will be powered by cell/s with a maximum nominal voltage of 4.8volts.
3.5 Cars with brushless motors will be powered by cells with a maximum nominal voltage of 3.7volts.
Bodies, Wings and Bumpers
4.1 Any commercially available Mardave, Kamtec or Schumacher, ABS, Lexan & Carbon effect bodyshells may be used, with a maximum width of 165mm. Bodyshells for the 12th scale racing class are not allowed.
4.2 The shell must remain securely fixed to the car throughout the race.
4.3 The windscreen must be transparent and side and/or rear windows, if any, must be clear on Lexan/polycarbonate bodyshells.
4.4 Windows may be cut out on ABS and carbon effect shells.
4.5 No portion of the chassis, wheels and tyres or any equipment may extend beyond the body, except aerial masts and four posts for the purpose of mounting the bodyshell.
4.6 Roll-over masts/antennas are not allowed.
4.7 Wheel wells must be cut out if the original cars are cut out and should be not more than 10mm larger than the tyre radius, with the exception of scale size and/or shape wheel well cut-outs.
4.8 No supplementary aerofoil or fins shall be fitted to the body with the exception of a rear wing if desirable. This wing must be non-metallic, commercially available and securely fixed with a maximum width of 165mm and chord of 50mm.
4.9 The bodyshell can be decorated to suit the individuals taste providing all coatings are of a permanent nature.
4.10 The shell must be high enough not to damage the carpet.

4.11 Bumpers may be fitted but must be designed to minimize injury that could result from being hit by a car and to reduce the risk of damage to other cars. Rigid bumpers made from non-resilient material such as metal are not allowed. They should not have an edge radius of not less than 1.5mm.

Wheels and Tyres
5.1 Wheel rim diameter to be of a maximum of 40mm.
5.2 Tyre width must be a minimum of 20mm and a maximum of 26mm.
5.3 Tyres to be black except for any side wall detail.
5.4 Any tyre additive may be used providing it is non-toxic, odourless and any excess is removed from the surface of the tyres, and tyres to be ‘touch dry’ prior to the start of the race.
5.5 Wheel nuts and/or axles must not protrude more than 2mm beyond wheels.
5.6 No more than 1.5mm of wheel outer side may be exposed (not covered with rubber) on the outer edge of wheels.

Cheers
Dan

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 09:09 PM
Just give all drivers racing in the mardave modified class written instructions when they book in.
To be honest even in the tin can class you can cheat and use faster tin cans which look like the mardave motors. It is all down to honesty really.
Look what happened to lance armstrong cheats do not prosper.
Ive raced against kev and dobs for years and they have never really had faster cars they were just faster getting around the track due to better setups and better driving.I hate them both lol:D

Karl what about me, i won the last mardave series dont forget:thumbsup:

suggy007
21-10-2012, 09:59 PM
Karl what about me, i won the last mardave series dont forget:thumbsup:

Ok i hate you too are you happy now:D

cr1tch
21-10-2012, 10:25 PM
Ok i hate you too are you happy now:D

hehehehe

Chris Elworthy
22-10-2012, 12:53 PM
Hi Lads,

please accept my comments on the Brushless issue despite not having raced Mardave at Ribble for a number of years although i intend returning with my Mardave this friday.

I've always been very much into Mardave racing, the low cost, close, fun, yet competitive has always appealed to me however as many people are feeling the introduction of Brushless/Lipo has made things more confusing for many.

From the previous posts I have read the one thing that stands out is Dan's post where he quotes
"it does not state that you cannot advance the timing on the motor"
having gone through the BRCA Rules numerous times and through them with a fine tooth comb this morning this is indeed correct, but is it in the spirit of Mardave racing?
Much research and testing has been done to introduce brushless technology to the Mardave circuit classes concluding that the combination of a 13.5 turn Brushless motor combined with a 3.7v 1s Lipo battery offers a comparable performance to the 4.8V NIMH/Silver can G2 motor. From what i have read, and its a lot, It was the BRCA's intention, to have a brushless equivalent option to offer drivers zero maintainance, not as a neccessary performace upgrade.
Dan, sorry to keep mentioning you but you have written the most here. I was surprised when I came over to check out your car the quality of the equipment in your car. Once again everything you were running is perfectly legal for the BRCA National meetings but i was suprised that they would allow Tekin RS Pro speedo's (Retailing at around £150) and Reedy Sonic motors (Retailing at £90) it seems ludicrous for a class that is supposedly a entry level/fun class.
I appriciate that these are the BRCA rules but to me the rules look very slap dash and in a state of trial. For example, In 4.3 of the rules it states that brushed speed controllers must have a reverse function fitted and not exceed a price limit of £65 yet you have free choice of brushless speed controllers with an almost open homogolation list of advanced timing 13.5 motors to choose from...seems strange.
I've raced nationals in various classes before and always looked for that little advantage to get more out of my motors (albeit brushed era) so i totally understand that the likes of Dan, Kev and Dobbo have gone for the quickest motors that are legal at natioinal events but my fear is that at club level it will create a motor war making this notoriously inexpensive class expensive.
I'm not saying that people should stop using brushless combo's im just wondering whether there is a way to stop the timing advance from the motor itself? I don't care what the BRCA Rules state, having timing advance coming from the motor is just the same as having a 0deg timed motor with 20% timing coming from the speed controller.
There just seems far too many loopholes in the current GT12 (and essentially RVRCCC) rules at the moment that these sort of discussions will continue until the BRCA, or club, set a motor price cap that only allows the use of 0 timing brushless motors.
Finally, not suggesting for one minute that anybody is doing this but i feel its a valid point, the so called "blinky" modes are still open to abuse. There have been cases of drivers changing the software programmes on their speedo's to make them still blink in neutral despite having timing advance enabled.

All this issues I imagine will be ironed out by the BRCA in the coming years but as the GT12 class is brand new teething problems will occur.

It has taken away a bit of the plug and play fun of the NIMH/G2 racing but as
Gav proved on friday night, smooth driving with a silver can can still win the meeting....was a proud moment for us old brushed boys haha!

Please feel free to comment on any of my thoughts,


Chris

Gavin Collingwood
22-10-2012, 01:11 PM
Still got it after all these years... Haha

cr1tch
23-10-2012, 03:33 PM
Hi Lads,

please accept my comments on the Brushless issue despite not having raced Mardave at Ribble for a number of years although i intend returning with my Mardave this friday.

I've always been very much into Mardave racing, the low cost, close, fun, yet competitive has always appealed to me however as many people are feeling the introduction of Brushless/Lipo has made things more confusing for many.

From the previous posts I have read the one thing that stands out is Dan's post where he quotes
"it does not state that you cannot advance the timing on the motor"
having gone through the BRCA Rules numerous times and through them with a fine tooth comb this morning this is indeed correct, but is it in the spirit of Mardave racing?
Much research and testing has been done to introduce brushless technology to the Mardave circuit classes concluding that the combination of a 13.5 turn Brushless motor combined with a 3.7v 1s Lipo battery offers a comparable performance to the 4.8V NIMH/Silver can G2 motor. From what i have read, and its a lot, It was the BRCA's intention, to have a brushless equivalent option to offer drivers zero maintainance, not as a neccessary performace upgrade.
Dan, sorry to keep mentioning you but you have written the most here. I was surprised when I came over to check out your car the quality of the equipment in your car. Once again everything you were running is perfectly legal for the BRCA National meetings but i was suprised that they would allow Tekin RS Pro speedo's (Retailing at around £150) and Reedy Sonic motors (Retailing at £90) it seems ludicrous for a class that is supposedly a entry level/fun class.
I appriciate that these are the BRCA rules but to me the rules look very slap dash and in a state of trial. For example, In 4.3 of the rules it states that brushed speed controllers must have a reverse function fitted and not exceed a price limit of £65 yet you have free choice of brushless speed controllers with an almost open homogolation list of advanced timing 13.5 motors to choose from...seems strange.
I've raced nationals in various classes before and always looked for that little advantage to get more out of my motors (albeit brushed era) so i totally understand that the likes of Dan, Kev and Dobbo have gone for the quickest motors that are legal at natioinal events but my fear is that at club level it will create a motor war making this notoriously inexpensive class expensive.
I'm not saying that people should stop using brushless combo's im just wondering whether there is a way to stop the timing advance from the motor itself? I don't care what the BRCA Rules state, having timing advance coming from the motor is just the same as having a 0deg timed motor with 20% timing coming from the speed controller.
There just seems far too many loopholes in the current GT12 (and essentially RVRCCC) rules at the moment that these sort of discussions will continue until the BRCA, or club, set a motor price cap that only allows the use of 0 timing brushless motors.
Finally, not suggesting for one minute that anybody is doing this but i feel its a valid point, the so called "blinky" modes are still open to abuse. There have been cases of drivers changing the software programmes on their speedo's to make them still blink in neutral despite having timing advance enabled.

All this issues I imagine will be ironed out by the BRCA in the coming years but as the GT12 class is brand new teething problems will occur.

It has taken away a bit of the plug and play fun of the NIMH/G2 racing but as
Gav proved on friday night, smooth driving with a silver can can still win the meeting....was a proud moment for us old brushed boys haha!

Please feel free to comment on any of my thoughts,


Chris

Hi Chris
Thank you for the post , i do agree with you but we have only got the expensive kit in our cars as we want to keep up with the rest at the nationals, to note our Brushless Mardaves have been sat on shelf since we got them around Xmas Time last year As the 'Club ' would only allow Brushed motors and 4 cells to run.... And the only time to Race them would be on a run night @ national events and also Blackpool RC Club.... All of these event seem few and far between so as you can guess i was more than thrilled that the club would allow the Modified Class (brushless)....

i know that the intialtion our lay is exspensive, but we could have this argument all day long.... is the club going to stop Buggies running Brushless and Lipos (is the club going to stop Buggies run Brushless and Lipo's I Dont think so)
If this is the case how many Driver at the Club that run Buggies and Lipo's - Saying that Take a walk around the Pits and See how MANY Buggies Drivers that Charge Lipo's That are not in a LIPO SACK.....

As for Fixed Timing Motor, i have one them also.....
http://www.lrp.cc/en/products/electric-motors/brushless/produkt/vector-k4-brushless-motor-135t/details/

I thought the Point of Having a Modified Class and brushed class, was to help the club move forward with the times, As Shumacher and Mardave have grown Rapidly in recent months.....

Many of the top guys want to run Brushless as we feel that we have out Grown Brushed Motor... and want to progress on from this..
Over the last few race seires at the club i have lost count of the amount of G2 Brushed motors i have bought And at £ 10 pound per time it soon adds up...

As for brushed this is an idea class for youngests and also low end drivers, ( i for one won the last series beating Dobbo as it is normally Kevin or Dobs who alway win the championship.... I could still run my brushed motor and give people a run for thier money)

My Final point being that the club needs to move with the times, or risk loosing members!! as this class is growning fast...

tisher
24-10-2012, 11:47 AM
I agree with Dan it was my first proper race with a mod system and have to say I really enjoyed it :D The only thing I think we need to do is split the heats a bit better rather than splitting brushed or brushless as they are very similar in speed. Maybe have a cut of point for the top heat say people that are continually doing 17 laps and above go in the top heat regardless of being brushless or not I am sure there is enough of us :)

Gavin Collingwood
25-10-2012, 07:51 AM
Totally agree put the higher ability in the top heat, but how do you do that?

Jlc57
25-10-2012, 09:39 AM
The heats are already run on the basis of ability and then the finals on lap times in the heats so not sure what else is expected