View Full Version : New lipo charge bunker
mark christopher
15-12-2012, 06:25 PM
Im not a fan of saying lipo are dangerous, so if as a user you feel you may make an error, or you know your charger defaults to NIMH, or you dont know the difference take a look here
Product here
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hobbyking.com%2Fhobbyking %2Fstore%2F__24647__Turnigy_Lipo_Bunker_Lipoly_Saf ety_Charge_Box.html&h=BAQFOjGqc
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/lipobunker-main.jpg
video here:
rusHrUSMmcw
PaulUpton
15-12-2012, 07:22 PM
video here
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DrusHrUSMmcw&h=SAQFjywSS
That will soon clear the pits :0 just shows how much energy these things store
russmini
15-12-2012, 07:44 PM
Yep, that went up very well, but was contained extremely well at the same time.
May be a good thing, bit fiddly, but could save other equipment and potential harm to people...
eyeayen
15-12-2012, 08:30 PM
How much damage would that have done if it had been in a Lipo Bag...
That looks a solid bit of kit but could everyone afford one ?
eyeayen
15-12-2012, 08:32 PM
Okay so I didn't check out the link first and to be fair I was expecting them to be considerably more than $23.95 !
dodgydiy
16-12-2012, 08:55 AM
well thats a bit of a kick up the arse to everyone who slated the idea of using a £2 military surplus ammo box like mine. metal box isnt brca legal though, "its not a lipo sack" even though it does the job far better
I know, lets ALL connect a 12v battery up to ramp the voltage of a lipo up, stir up the hysteria about lipo cells again!!! Anyone got a video of an IB4200 cell exploding to remind us what we came from using???!!
mark christopher
16-12-2012, 12:46 PM
well thats a bit of a kick up the arse to everyone who slated the idea of using a £2 military surplus ammo box like mine. metal box isnt brca legal though, "its not a lipo sack" even though it does the job far better
your ammo box can not vent, until you open it!
i would re read the rule too, who told you a metal box is not allowed?
rule clearly states "Lipo sack is defind as a receptacle designed for the purpose of charging lipo/life and of suitable construction to contain a fire
this is proven to reatian fire, sold as a lipo charge bunker ( which your amo box is not, how ever it still retains fire) as i have put the lipo fire i saw the bag did not retain sod all!
mark christopher
16-12-2012, 12:48 PM
I know, lets ALL connect a 12v battery up to ramp the voltage of a lipo up, stir up the hysteria about lipo cells again!!! Anyone got a video of an IB4200 cell exploding to remind us what we came from using???!!
having seen a lipo go up at a 12th meeting recently (poss user error) this would have retained the fire, thats why i posted it, not to cause panic as the lipo sack did F all...
SlowOne
16-12-2012, 07:10 PM
Oh dear, Mark, you really do need to stop talking about things you know nothing about...
The LiPo sack did something. The cause is still unknown. The evidence has been examined and we are starting to get some information from those that make the sacks, as well as informing them of our findings.
What you saw was a towel and a body that were ignited by the heat. At no time was the sack ablaze. What ended the fire was the prompt action of those that got the sand onto the LiPo, and as a result we had almost none of those acrid and potentially poisonous fumes seen pouring out of the box on the video. There is no way of stopping that, which from a heath and safety perspective is a risk.
You really make me smile. You were the one with the "LiPo is safe, NiMh is lethal" rhetoric. Now it seems you have to admit that LiPo is not safe - buy a vault that keeps the fire in but smothers everyone else with smoke and poisonous fumes!!
This is not the answer to anything. As I said, as a device it raises other aspects of Health and Safety that you seem to want to ignore completely. I think your promotion of this device is ill-considered.
I have no doubt you will post again telling me I am an idiot and you are right. Just remember I was the one saying that LiPo fires were active and potentially dangerous, and you were the one saying the LiPo was safe. Which of course you will deny as well. I know I can't win in a single thread, but in the long term... ;)
mark christopher
16-12-2012, 10:17 PM
i know nothing about lipo....LOL i was using them when you were comparing them to the devil!
please re-read my original post, it clearly says
"Im not a fan of saying lipo are dangerous, so if as a user you feel you may make an error, or you know your charger defaults to NIMH, or you dont know the difference take a look here"
nothing about me saying lipo is any more unsafe as any power source, infact its clear i blame user error, lipo are safe if used correctly.
funny how you know what i saw!!
as for the lipo sack, i did not say the lipo sack was on fire anywhere.. i did say as the lipo was in flames the owner was waving the bag in the air and the lipo was not in the bag... so the bag did F all
this was written/confirmed by somone (a reputable person) on facebook who took pictures of said event and informed us that the bag may have not been sealed, a second person at the meeting said the charger may have defaulted after a power cut.
"Mark, the Chesterfield one was in the bag when it started. It blew out of the bag when it went up. The bag tried to do it's job, but it was beyond it. I also don't think it had been properly fastened. I took photos of it for the BRCA"
"Current theory for the cause at chesterfield was incorrect charging. Power tripped out in the hall. Charger went back to default setting which was nimh owner didn't realise and hit charge again. Think it was possibly same last year."
this is another charge option for users who may feel unsure of lipo, nothing more nothing less.
maybe instead of bashing me you should read this and re assess the fact the bag did NOT comply to brca general rules IE contain the fire,(you have confirmed this by saying a towel and body were on fire) this bunker does retain fire as laid out in the rule...
rule clearly states "Lipo sack is defind as a receptacle designed for the purpose of charging lipo/life and of suitable construction to contain a fire
Rebelrc
16-12-2012, 10:43 PM
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Ah, so this wasn't lipo failure, it was once again, it seems, user error. I still believe that lipo is inheritently safer than a nimh, as they would pop even being charged correctly. Now i got in trouble for saying this before, but unless lipo sacks are built and tested in accordance with some form of recognised standard, then really as a consumer, not all sacks can be trusted.
As for that bunker, it would be better being air tight so the fire consumes the oxygen and will extinguish itself so you can make safe.
InsideLineModels
16-12-2012, 11:45 PM
As for that bunker, it would be better being air tight so the fire consumes the oxygen and will extinguish itself so you can make safe.
Not sure about this DCM, my understanding is that lithium polymer 'fires' are self sustaining. They don't need oxygen to go off. You would need the Bunker to be able withstand whatever volume of gas is generated - which I would guess would produce a fair amount of pressure! It would need to be qualified to do this also, otherwise it would potentially become a grenade (which is what nimhs became when the vents blocked). This is why it vents I imagine.
I don't intend to suggest that lipos are dangerous, I think they are the best battery we have had in all the years I've been racing (28 years) ! Anything that contains that kind of energy though needs to be treated correctly. In my opinion they are a lot more robust than nimhs and nicads. I remember getting the fright of my life when a 1200mah nicad blew up in my hotshot II when I was 11.
Kev
bigred5765
16-12-2012, 11:47 PM
just to lighten the mood we may all need one of these on the 21st lol:P
Si Coe
16-12-2012, 11:50 PM
I was watching some sort of ghetto lipo bunker video the other day - A breeze block with a bag of sand on top. A much more effective idea.
The block contains the debris, the heat melts the bag and the sand drops on it, dosing the fire. So simple, so sensible.
Now I just have to take a breeze block and a bag of builders sand to all indoor meetings......
mtbd500
17-12-2012, 03:01 AM
I have seen several lipos ignite at race meets and every time it was when the lipo was in the car during a race, I think manufacturers need to look at the actual case the cells are housed in, maybe a Kevlar wrap.
Not sure about this DCM, my understanding is that lithium polymer 'fires' are self sustaining. They don't need oxygen to go off. You would need the Bunker to be able withstand whatever volume of gas is generated - which I would guess would produce a fair amount of pressure! It would need to be qualified to do this also, otherwise it would potentially become a grenade (which is what nimhs became when the vents blocked). This is why it vents I imagine.
I don't intend to suggest that lipos are dangerous, I think they are the best battery we have had in all the years I've been racing (28 years) ! Anything that contains that kind of energy though needs to be treated correctly. In my opinion they are a lot more robust than nimhs and nicads. I remember getting the fright of my life when a 1200mah nicad blew up in my hotshot II when I was 11.
Kev
My bad, it does indeed contain Oxygen, so it will self combust.
mattr
17-12-2012, 08:48 AM
As for that bunker, it would be better being air tight so the fire consumes the oxygen and will extinguish itself so you can make safe.Now this i would like to see, LiPo fire in a sealed container.
Obviously, i'd only like to see it from a distance.......
Battle_axe
20-12-2012, 01:12 PM
the FAA says for a lithium-ion or polymer fire there is only 2 effective methords Haylon or Class D fire extingishers, potentialy with enough heat sand could make it a whole lot bigger, however in a smaller fire sand may contain the fire long enough to burn out.
Water, Foam, CO2 are all a bad idea
fidspeed
20-12-2012, 04:26 PM
Halon went out of use a while ago in domestic use its nasty to the enviroment i think I Stand to be corrected if you have one i think your local council or fire service will advise of its safe disposal
I had one for a while until during fire training at work i mentioned it to the trainer who kindly exchanged it for a nice large red Co2 one ;)
fid
mark christopher
20-12-2012, 07:20 PM
Halon went out of use a while ago in domestic use its nasty to the enviroment i think I Stand to be corrected if you have one i think your local council or fire service will advise of its safe disposal
I had one for a while until during fire training at work i mentioned it to the trainer who kindly exchanged it for a nice large red Co2 one ;)
fid
yup thats correct since around 2003
SlowOne
21-12-2012, 08:10 PM
the FAA says for a lithium-ion or polymer fire there is only 2 effective methords Haylon or Class D fire extingishers, potentialy with enough heat sand could make it a whole lot bigger, however in a smaller fire sand may contain the fire long enough to burn out.
Water, Foam, CO2 are all a bad ideaIt's a question of energy. A receiver pack will effectively go phut and that's it. An RC main drive battery does all sorts of pyrotechnics as it can power a 300 watt motor. An F1 battery capable of delivering up to 35kW over less than seven seconds is just so much energy that the best way to extinguish it is to eliminate oxygen from the area - CO2 or Class D.
CO2 replaces the oxygen in the surrounding area of a lithium fire so cutting off its source of combustion. Class D extinguishers with copper base combine with lithium to form an alloy on the surface which acts as a barrier and prevents the oxygen reaching the 'raw' lithium.
As you say, we can use the sand as it cuts off the oxygen, but the cell does not have enough energy to burn through it. HTH :)
mark christopher
21-12-2012, 11:39 PM
Got one today, suprized how heavy its is, just got to assemble it, see you at Tamworth Pete.:wub
Got one today, suprized how heavy its is, just got to assemble it, see you at Tamworth Pete.:wub
Should be interesting trying to use that at a brca meeting then.... Lol
Frecklychimp
22-12-2012, 06:42 AM
Got one today, suprized how heavy its is, just got to assemble it, see you at Tamworth Pete.:wub
Not sure i like the idea of a 'safety' device that has to be assembled,
surely it can only be as good as the competence of its builder?
Can you put some pics up of the 'flat pack' Mark?
pictures here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__30603__Turnigy_Lipo_Bunker_Lipoly_Safety_Charge_ Box_NL_Warehouse_.html
mark christopher
22-12-2012, 10:37 AM
Click link in first post, once assembled it ain't weak will post pic later
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/catalog/lipobunker-sub2.jpg
SlowOne
22-12-2012, 04:01 PM
You gotta love the irony of all this...
The man who pushed us all to go LiPo because it was safer than NiMh is now doing what we all said we could do with NiMh, charge them in a box, but were shouted down as idiots by... the man now charging his LiPo in a box!! :D :D
The advert describes the box as needed because the only two times your LiPo can fail is during charge and discharge.... despite there being issues people have had with them sitting in cars and houses. It also describes the box as bullet proof and made from 304 stainless (the cheapest grade I believe)... someone ought to tell the Army - they spend a fortune on Chobham armour for that purpose and seem to be wasting the taxpayers money again!!! :p
Am I the only one who think someone's been had? :rolleyes:
mark christopher
22-12-2012, 05:29 PM
You gotta love the irony of all this...
The man who pushed us all to go LiPo because it was safer than NiMh is now doing what we all said we could do with NiMh, charge them in a box, but were shouted down as idiots by... the man now charging his LiPo in a box!! :D :D
The advert describes the box as needed because the only two times your LiPo can fail is during charge and discharge.... despite there being issues people have had with them sitting in cars and houses. It also describes the box as bullet proof and made from 304 stainless (the cheapest grade I believe)... someone ought to tell the Army - they spend a fortune on Chobham armour for that purpose and seem to be wasting the taxpayers money again!!! :p
Am I the only one who think someone's been had? :rolleyes:
Pete
At the moment im forced to charge them in a "lipo sack" or container that can retain fire by the BRCA, so just because i think there safe or anyone else for that matter makes no odds, to be at a brca club and charge lipo i/we have no choice. While at home i charge them open and uncovered!
im happy to turn up at the next 12th national meeting and not use a pouch, because in my opinion thier safe , how long do you think ill last before thier "jobs worth" safty officer "forces" me to use a pouch or leave the meeting...
Please point me to where i said folk were idiots for wanting to charge Nimh in a box :wtf: i will not dispute i may have called you one in the past though.:woot:
The only ones who have bee "had" are the ones forced to buy a lipo sack, that you have confirmed does NOT retain fire as in the written BRCA rule :p
I hear "teamSlow Ones" have a new lipo safe bag, as thier logo says its what is says on the bag...;) Have a good xmas you GOM:wub
http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/60023_10151289776576156_777190665_n.jpg
justleanitupabit
22-12-2012, 06:16 PM
Money > Sense.
:)
Edit
Metal conducts heat and electricity very well.......
mark christopher
22-12-2012, 06:23 PM
Money > Sense.
:)
Edit
Metal conducts heat and electricity very well.......
How true, planes, cars, electric trains, ships, all made of steel with high voltages. The funny thing is how many of us sit cells on carbon and alloy chassis with carbon or brass straps...
SlowOne
22-12-2012, 06:39 PM
How true, planes, cars, electric trains, ships, all made of steel with high voltages. The funny thing is how many of us sit cells on carbon and alloy chassis with carbon or brass straps...
Sets bait.... nibble, nibble... gotcha!!! :lol:
mark christopher
22-12-2012, 08:24 PM
Sets bait.... nibble, nibble... gotcha!!! :lol:
Pete you remind me of the Otto cycle. Suck squeeze bang blow :p
SlowOne
23-12-2012, 07:16 PM
Ahh...
Adiabatic compression - I squeeze you until you can take no more!
Heat addition at constant volume - You generate more heat in your posts...
Rejection of heat at constant volume - we keep posting until the thread blows itself out...
The two additional processes complete my cycle....
Exhaust of waste heat... the arguments are exhausted, insults traded...
The intake of of cool, oxygen-rich air... we start again in another thread...
But, you are only a reciprocating engine with huge friction and mass-acceleration losses, I do it with gas turbines - greater effectiveness, less weight and enormous power-to-weight ratios!!! :lol: :lol:
Merry Christmas piston-engine man, from your friend the gas-turbine. ;)
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