22SCT ride height

[Kelk]

Hi all

Trying to get my 22 SCT set up correctly as I've only taken it out once. I did win that night mainly because everyone went into demolition derby mode and the losi was just better on a track rather than just bashing.

However I want to start making consistent improvements and the first has to be the ride height. So the details are:

Circuit is SHRCCC and is relatively smooth astro
Front shocks - 35wt oil with blue springs
Rear shocks - 27.5 wt oil with yellow springs

I originally had course kings on front and rear and have now swapped the rears to Schumacher mini spikes (yellow)

However my problem is ride height and the back end having very snappy over steer.

The ride height was >30mm as my ride height gauge would go clean under it.

I've wound off all the preload and the front is c. 22mm but the rear is still sitting a lot higher and essentially it is akin to an American muscle car.

I've got the losi 22 support pack on order but I wondered what recommendations people would make to

a) lower and even the ride height
b) suggestions for snap over steer reduction

Thanks in advance

[Frecklychimp]

Hi matey,

ride height wise for outdoors mine is set at 28mm all round without body fitted... TLR team in USA run from 28mm to 31mm... i run 100g under lipos too!

If you wanted it lower at back you could fit more spacers inside rear shocks but you are only limiting droop which really helps rear grip in corners on 22SCT and makes a big difference in how flat the truck takes jumps .

It's not a buggy matey and the tyre height is obviously a lot more, so you won't be able to run at buggy heights without serious handling issues and driveshaft/outdrive wear... 22mm seems very low for a truck.

Running the front that low won't be helping the initial oversteer.

Out of the box the truck has lots of initial steering as to be expected with 22 platform...

fitting 5 deg castor blocks will calm this a lot (they are included in support pack) you can go further with 0 deg castor blocks if you wish, but i'd try 5 first as they felt good to me.

Moving the castor blocks back by fitting the 2mm shim to the front also calms initial steering grab and generally feels smoother through the corner.

Have you trimmed front tyre spikes? i take off 2 outside rows on front and at least 1 inside row depending on grip levels.

Also Kourse Kings are a flat profile carcass where Schueys are rounded and taller, i've noticed that you get a lot more roll on back end running this combo which can make turn in feel harsh and unpredictable... i think you get a slow response which causes you to put on more lock than needed and then you get a snappy feeling as the car pivots.

might be worth trying a set of Schuey blues up front with the yellow rears, again trim spikes as above.

what pistons are you running in shocks?

[Kelk]

Wow - that's a great answer. Cheers mate :thumbsup:

As for pistons, I'm running the standard ones from the build ie as per instructions

[Kelk]

Freckly just thought I'd give an update after your great advice

ride height now set to 28 mm all round with one stage softer rear springs. If it ends up being too wallowy at the rear I'll put the original ones back on and then look at gettign the under lipo weight. Can I ask where you got one from?

I've fitted the 5 deg castor blocks as a start and see how I do with them
and I've moved the castor blocks back by fitting the 2mm shim to the front.

Have you trimmed front tyre spikes?

I have now

might be worth trying a set of Schuey blues up front with the yellow rears, again trim spikes as above.

I'm going to see how I get on and if I need the Schuey's I'll order some in.

I'll get to see what it's like for the first time tomorrow night when I'll use it in practise to shake it down some.

Thnaks for all the advice so far :thumbsup:

[Frecklychimp]

Hi matey,

you are welcome on advice, it's only based on my experience with truck so far... will still be trying different settings in future.

I made my own weights to test from lead sheet, but now i'm happy with 100g i'll be getting a brass 104g one from Rudebits... obviously playing with lead has issues and engineered brass is a better constant form of removable weight.

Maybe worth borrowing one to see if you like it before buying if someone you race with has one handy... i always run 80g in 22 buggy and feel it settles the car so was something i tried straight off with SCT

Shock wise i'm running 37.5 front with black spring and 32.5 rear with pink spring... 55 pistons all round with team 'rounded edges' mod.

Let us know how you get on with the tweaks, always good to have feedback on settings to work with.

always recommend trying one change at a time so you learn what effects the changes have.

:thumbsup:

[Robby]

always recommend trying one change at a time so you learn what effects the changes have.

:thumbsup:

[Kelk]

The truck felt a lot lot better than before. Still some work to be done though.

It was feeling very light around the rear when coming off the brakes and applying the power in the exit of corners, it's far more catchable than it was, but still need to investigate as to what can be causing it

[Robby]

The truck felt a lot lot better than before. Still some work to be done though.

It was feeling very light around the rear when coming off the brakes and applying the power in the exit of corners, it's far more catchable than it was, but still need to investigate as to what can be causing it

Don't know if you have a weight kit for it, but it's well worth it.

http://losiracing.blogspot.com/2012/01/tlr4167-brass-weight-system-for-rear.html

[Frecklychimp]

Don't know if you have a weight kit for it, but it's well worth it.

http://losiracing.blogspot.com/2012/01/tlr4167-brass-weight-system-for-rear.html

I was assuming the truck was in mid motor config as it's a UK Astro track it's running on, so this weight would be of no use.

If it is rear config then i haven't tried it, felt pretty good in mid on a damp track but yet to try in full wet conditions.

The truck felt a lot lot better than before. Still some work to be done though.

It was feeling very light around the rear when coming off the brakes and applying the power in the exit of corners, it's far more catchable than it was, but still need to investigate as to what can be causing it

thats good that it felt better from before,

chances are that it's more than one issue causing traction problems, mine has always felt planted apart from the excess initial turn in on first runs with car.

Firstly.. was the track dry, and how about temperature?

some astro tracks can be slippy when cold and if it is slightly damp then you really need Schuey Silver minispikes on the back also the 50g TLR weight will help traction

Which antisquat shim are you running?

I would say that your shock oils are light for a 2WD SCT, would be worth trying 37.5 in front and 32.5 in back... thicker oils also calm weight transfer under accelerating/braking as well as regular bump damping duties

Did you try any weight under lipos?

Did you change back to yellow spring on rear?

The piston mod is fully recommended too, really sharpens up the handling, particularly helping it settle quicker after direction changes and bumps/jumps

[Robby]

I was assuming the truck was in mid motor config as it's a UK Astro track it's running on, so this weight would be of no use.

If it is rear config then i haven't tried it, felt pretty good in mid on a damp track but yet to try in full wet conditions.

I guess that's the problem, as without more info on the complete set-up from the OP it's hard to suggest anything specific - or even assume their running mid-motor.

My point being, regardless the configuration, that adding weight to the rear will help in keeping the rear planted. ;)
http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR4151
http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR4167

Even changing the rear track-width could help.
http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR2935
http://www.tlracing.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TLR2934

[Kelk]

Thanks for the feedback and discussion so far guys - sorry I haven't fed anything back after your efforts but work has got in the way of hobby!

Ok - so to confirm - truck is set as mid motor. Temperature was c. 8 deg C and am running on astro. Track was wet, no soaking but as I was racing the 22 and only running the truck, the comparison was night and day.

Now for the other questions...

some astro tracks can be slippy when cold and if it is slightly damp then you really need Schuey Silver minispikes on the back also the 50g TLR weight will help traction

That's the case at SHRCCC wrt temp & being damp. I've ordered some DB Multibytes (only A compound available as far as I can see in the UK) as I run the B compond on the buggy in these conditions and do well on them. However, I'll also order some Schuey Silver minispikes to give them a whirl for a back to back comparison. I'll probably try some blue mini spikes up front too.

Which antisquat shim are you running?



The out of the box standard

I would say that your shock oils are light for a 2WD SCT, would be worth trying 37.5 in front and 32.5 in back... thicker oils also calm weight transfer under accelerating/braking as well as regular bump damping duties


I've actually just ordered new shock caps for the truck as I'm not getting on with the grub screw type and in comparison to the buggy (and I appreciate they are very different) I find I can set them up easier. So before I might try those oil weights when I rebuild the shocks in the next week or so.

Did you try any weight under lipos?

Not as yet - I've just ordered one from Rudebits so there is something else to try.

Did you change back to yellow spring on rear?

Again not yet, but I'll try the rebuuild with new weight oil and then see what happens with the springs.

The piston mod is fully recommended too, really sharpens up the handling, particularly helping it settle quicker after direction changes and bumps/jumps

I'll add this into the shock rebuild.

So for being such a pain - no one I know runs a 22SCT and I have to admit I love it. The proposal is to try and build the SCT class at SHRCCC even if it is only once a month with a dedicated heat, however, even on the first run, which was the race evening, it was a mile quicker than everything else, just it needed a lot more concentration and correction at the Tx to compensate for the handling.

I'll try the changes incrementally and feedback but if you're ever in the Surrey area, let me know, I owe you a beer at least!

[Frecklychimp]

Hi Matey,

if its damp/wet/cold then i would say the main issue is your rear tyres... I haven't tried the dBoots Multibytes yet, they snook onto the market lae lastyear so something we haven't had a go with... i liked the A compound A compound Nanobytes for indoors so worth a go.. let us know how they work out for you.

Silver Schuey Minispikes on back with blues up front are definitely recommended in those conditions... i run Schumacher hard foam inserts in the Silvers too, with fastrax yellow compound moulded inserts in all other compounds.

Weights will definitely help you get traction, 50g TLR rear weight will be well worth adding in wet/damp.

Shock wise i like the emulsion type bleeder caps but they do take some getting used to from regular 22 type shocks.

Here is the TLR tips video which might help you:

http://losiracing.blogspot.co.uk/2012_09_01_archive.html

Piston mod... these are the tips i got from Andy 'Gnarly Old Dog':

Get an old shock shaft and put it in a dremel (threaded end into the dremel).
Take a piston and press fit it onto the shock shaft - normally the fit is tight enough that you don't need to secure the piston.
Spin up the dremel at about speed 4-6 (my Li-Ion dremel goes upto speed 10)and very lightly, take a piece of 600 grit wet-n-dry to the uper edge of the piston where the side meets the upper face.

What you're trying to achieve is a small radius between the upper face of the piston and the piston side edge. If you look at the old Losi pistons in the old shocks, you'll notice that they have this radius whereas the new pistons in the big bores don't.

Once you've done the top face, stop the dremel and flip the piston and repeat for the other face.

With practice, it takes about 10 mins to do a set of 4 pistons neatly. You don't want to spin up the dremel too fast because you don't want to melt the piston and a 600grit is smooth enough to make a nice surface finish. You can go coarser but the surface finish suffers.

100% recommend this mod, really helps the truck react quicker and gives a real advantage on bumpy tracks with smoothing out the drive, meaning you can more power down against opposition.

Hopefully the UK SCT Nationals 2013 will see a round hosted by SHRCC again so we should all be coming down 'Saarrf' for a blast, so will be good to get some local knowledge tips off you if this happens :thumbsup:

Keep us in the loop matey and give us a shout if you want any help.

Mark.

[Kelk]

Hi all

Haven't posted in here in a while but I thought I'd give a summary of the only time I've taken it out since we last updated this post.

The under lipo weight went in and it has helped a lot, far less battling the rear end out of corners and the truck does feel far more settled. So much so I've just ordered the same for the buggy to try that.

I haven't dremeled the pistons as yet - that's more of a case of having the time to do it rather than lack of intent.

I have tried the A spec dboots and they were fantastic and with schuey blues up front the car was more predictable and power came on a lot earlier.

Given I was the only truck out there (the only truck in the village if you will) I expected to only beat a few buggies from beginners etc as the gearing is obviously lower in the truck compared to the buggy.

But guess what - not only was I holding my own quite well, I won one of the heats and ended up 2nd on the grid for the B final. Admittedly it was a quitish night with about 8 cars / final but I was chuffed with that. I finished 3rd that night :)

More work to come and more time to be spent with the truck

The good news is that