computer problem

[jim76]

one for you IT boffins on here!

Came to use my PC this morning and it won't start up. Turns on ok, but shuts itself down before it gets to the blue XP screen with the list of users available.

I had a problem a couple of years back with it and reinstalled windows, since then it came up with a black and white screen at boot up asking which version of XP to use and there were 3 versions to choose from, all the same. I just always clicked on the top one and it used to boot up fine from there (there was a 30 second count down on this screen or it would default to the first option i guess and just boot up anyway)

so this morning i get the 30 second count down screen, choose the first option and before it gets to the blue login screen it just turns off.

Kept trying and after i entered the windows version it came up with a screen to choose boot in safe mode, or last known working configuration etc. tried safe mode and last configuration and again both times it just shut itself down before the login screen.

I'm thinking it may be a thermal issue, maybe the CPU fan not working or something and after 30 seconds or whatever it starts to get too hot and shuts down? A friend of mine said possibly hard drive overheating as the opening Bios section seems ok, but when it starts to load windows from the drive it turns off?

any suggestions gladly received!

[Benh]

What make is the PC/Laptop? Is it a Dell?

[dave g]

might be worth reseating the cpu and memory,sometimes they can creep over time.

[Southwell]

Power supply FTW!

[Richard Lowe]

90% of the time when we get them in at work doing this you just need to write a new boot sector to the hard drive it's not often it's a hardware problem, especially if it reboots at exactly the same point when starting up.

If you've somehow managed to get 3 windows installations on the machine (:drool:) I'd suggest wiping everything clean and starting again.

[Dunc]

First I would try fixing the master boot record (MBR).

If you have your XP disc boot from it and press "R" when prompted to repair an exisitng installation using the recovery console. This should lead you to a DOS-like screen where you need to select which installation you wish to repair and enter the administrator password. Then you can type "fixmbr".

There is some more information here (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314058).

A quick google for "fixmbr", "recovery console" etc. should throw up some more detailed instructions if needed.

Hope that helps.

[Dunc]

Beat me to it Rich!

Repairing the MBR should clear the other 'ghost' installations (i.e. there are unlikely to be any actual duplicate files). No promises though! If duplicates do exist then formatting to allow a fresh install may well be the way to go.

[jim76]

cheers guys. I think it was a similar problem the first time round, something like a missing NDL file or something that stopped it booting. I did try fixing the boot sector through the recovery console but it ended up just completely reinstalling windows which i didn't really want, hence the odd scenario with a few version on there i guess. But it's been fine for the last couple of years.

I'll give the recovery console another try and see.

It's a Mesh pc by the way.

just out of interest, as i appear to have 3 versions to choose from would each one have it's own boot sector? ie, could i choose the second one on the list for a change and see if it boots up?

Ian, what was that about the power supply?

[Southwell]

If it shuts down and reboots i have had a number of machines do this, which was the power supply. Normally when ive had boot sector failures its before windows even loads, not when the blue screen comes up. You could go into recovery console and run check disk first: chkdsk

[jim76]

it doesn't reboot, just shuts down and stays down.

also it never gets to the blue screen, just shuts off, no error message or anything. I'll try later with the recovery panel.

[Dunc]

You have to be careful which initial option you pick. You want to press "R" at the screen shown in this pic (http://www.housing.hawaii.edu/resources/support/images/console_windowssetup.gif). For it to reinstall Windows you would have had to press "ENTER" at this point instead. It will detect you have an existing installation and then give you several further options such as repairing the installation (by reinstalling the system files), wiping the drive and starting again, etc.

As Southwell suggests running the "chkdsk" command would also be a good idea (you can do this through the recovery console too).

cheers guys. I think it was a similar problem the first time round, something like a missing NDL file or something that stopped it booting. I did try fixing the boot sector through the recovery console but it ended up just completely reinstalling windows which i didn't really want, hence the odd scenario with a few version on there i guess. But it's been fine for the last couple of years.

I'll give the recovery console another try and see.

It's a Mesh pc by the way.

just out of interest, as i appear to have 3 versions to choose from would each one have it's own boot sector? ie, could i choose the second one on the list for a change and see if it boots up?

Ian, what was that about the power supply?

[Southwell]

it doesn't reboot, just shuts down and stays down.

also it never gets to the blue screen, just shuts off, no error message or anything. I'll try later with the recovery panel.

Ive only ever had that with faulty components, not a hard drive fault.

[Dunc]

I forgot to say earlier, but as far as I know there is a single boot sector which contains the relevant data on all current installations.

I don't know which options you chose in the past using the Windows disc, but what I suspect has happened is that you only have one copy of Windows on your drive (in terms of physical files) and that the boot sector has simply not been updated correctly so that it in fact thinks there are several. Fixing the MBR should rectify the problem if this is the case.

cheers guys. I think it was a similar problem the first time round, something like a missing NDL file or something that stopped it booting. I did try fixing the boot sector through the recovery console but it ended up just completely reinstalling windows which i didn't really want, hence the odd scenario with a few version on there i guess. But it's been fine for the last couple of years.

I'll give the recovery console another try and see.

It's a Mesh pc by the way.

just out of interest, as i appear to have 3 versions to choose from would each one have it's own boot sector? ie, could i choose the second one on the list for a change and see if it boots up?

Ian, what was that about the power supply?

[Richard Lowe]

Ive only ever had that with faulty components, not a hard drive fault.
Agreed, if it just turns off without rebooting it sounds like some hardware is spannered :(

[jim76]

i don't have an original windows disc, i have one of those silly Mesh recovery discs that all manufactureres seem to hand out that has windows on it. Looking at your screen dump, i'm not sure i was presented with that screen last time as i remember following through the steps to get to the recovery console but never got an option to press "R", and it then forced me to re-install windows.

also, is there a generic administrator password such as "admin" or something as i have no idea what the password will be on my machine. i can try and contact Mesh to ask them i guess.

cheers for the continued help!

[Richard Lowe]

There are usually two types of recovery disk, normally if it's a set of disks it just clones an image onto the hard drive to recover, and if it's a single disk it's no more than a normal windows CD with the manufacturers branding on. If it's a normal windows disk you will have the option to goto the repair console, you press 'r' at the first question it asks you.
If not, if you have another computer or know anyone with a computer that uses the same operating system and they have a normal unbranded windows CD you can use theirs so long as you use your windows product key.

If you get stuck at the password to log onto recovery console you can boot from a windows 2000 pro CD to the recovery console and it bypasses the username and password and gives you admin rights straight away :lol:

[Dunc]

The first user login that the PC came setup with should be your main administrator account. Just use the password for that one in the recovery console, although as Richard has pointed it seems you don't have a true Windows disc. A call to Mesh maybe an idea to clarify.

[Southwell]

Assuming they didn't do anything with the administrator account you should just be able to login by typing administrator.

[Dunc]

I don't recall fully, but I thought all you could do at the recovery console was select an installation and then it would default to the main adminstrator account (i.e. you only get prompted for a password, not the username too)? Mind you I'm not sure I've ever tried it with more than one administrator account present.

Plus, there isn't necessarily an account called "administrator", is there? There is an administrators group, but the account name(s) can be whatever you want. At least that's what I thought.

[Southwell]

Ive done it a few times. You hit ctrl-alt and then hit delete twice and you get a domain logon type screen, type in administrator and it lets you in....:lol: Wont work on a lot of machines though i wouldn't have thought.
Don't think it works on Vista though.

[Richard Lowe]

The administrator account is always there on XP, even if you only create one user as an administrator when you set up the OS. Not sure how Vista deals with it, I think it's still there but more hidden than XP.

[millzy]

no way do you geeks get laid

[Southwell]

no way do you geeks get laid

Chicks love it. :drool:

[Richard Lowe]

no way do you geeks get laid
:lol:

[Dunc]

Ive done it a few times. You hit ctrl-alt and then hit delete twice and you get a domain logon type screen, type in administrator and it lets you in....:lol: Wont work on a lot of machines though i wouldn't have thought.
Don't think it works on Vista though.

I'll have to remember that :thumbsup:

The administrator account is always there on XP, even if you only create one user as an administrator when you set up the OS. Not sure how Vista deals with it, I think it's still there but more hidden than XP.

That does ring bells Richard (I've been using Vista for around 9 months now so XP is becoming a dim and distant memory!). I have managed to find the "hidden" accounts in Vista under Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Local Users and Groups (I guess the same/similar will be true in XP).

Chicks love it. :drool:

That's what I thought :confused::lol:

[jim76]

right, quick update.
got home, fired up the PC, came to the safe mode screen, chose last working config and pressed enter. Bob's your uncle, boots up to the blue screen, choose my profile and it all loads up fine - ruling out the corrupt windows issue i guess.

then, couple of minutes later - poof, shuts off no warning. I'm guessing this brings me back to the hardware overheating issue. Any ideas how i can monitor the internal temperature to see if it keeps rising? any idea what the temp should be ideally, room temp?

cheers

[Southwell]

What processor is it?

On startup enter the bios and then hardware monitor (or something like that)
I wouldn't wanna see the cpu going over 50-60.

[Fiddybux]

Try resetting BIOS defaults, but I'd say it's PSU failure or mobo.

Hardware is up the spout. No expensive though if it's either really.

[jim76]

spec, jeez, think it was an AMD Athlon 64 3500mhz (about 4 years old)

i'll try and open up the case and check out the cpu fan etc to see if anythings not working

[DCM]

go into the bios and leave it there, if it don't crash, then it is an OS fault or a HDD fault.

[Richard Lowe]

spec, jeez, think it was an AMD Athlon 64 3500mhz (about 4 years old)

i'll try and open up the case and check out the cpu fan etc to see if anythings not working
They produced almost no heat, it should no go much over 40-45c even with the standard cooler.

[Southwell]

go into the bios and leave it there, if it don't crash, then it is an OS fault or a HDD fault.

It can be a loading fault, which wouldn't trigger it there.
Personally i would buy a cheap PSU and try that, make sure they accept refunds though.

[DCM]

but if he got three versions available for booting up on the OS selection screen, my first port of call would be to delete partitions and reinstall a fresh copy of Windows before I go spending money.

It is loading fault, but I would think it is OS based fault first not hardware.

[jim76]

ok, more feedback

booted up and went into the bios to monitor the temps. CPU was 38 deg. Motherboard was 29. PC then shut down while still in bios. guess it's power supply then?

[Southwell]

You doing the nat this w'end? I might have an old one kicking about that you could test if it's gone or not.

[DCM]

power supply could be it, if not, mobo or case switch

[jim76]

yeah, i will be there. i do have a brand new cheap 450w one knocking around that i planned to convert for charging cells. not sure i'd be confident in swapping them over though! i'll have to chat up one of the IT guys at work!

[Southwell]

Just unplug the big connector from the motherboard and the 4 pin one (normally by the processor), connect the same ones from the new psu. Plug in the power cable to the hard drive and fire'r up! Just plug it in without removing the old one, being careful not to touch any live bits on the psu.