eBay be wary on vintage deals

[Rich D]

Hi guys

Just a heads up to be wary about selling vintage shelfers on eBay. Always state that they may not be suitable for running with modern brushless electronics.

I purchased from eBay a Losi xx4 last summer as a SHELF queen. It was rebuilt by someone else who listed the new parts they had fitted. I looked over the car upon delivery and the description seemed accurate. The car was very tidy for such an old model. i left him five stars and positive feedback. All i did was give it a thorough clean, fitted new rims and a new shell. Its been sat on my shelf for six months ever since. I decided to move it on for funding towards new cars so copied and pasted the advert i had purchased the car from and added the additional information as appropriate. Some muppet has purchased it in november, ran it with what I'm assuming is a brushless system and is moaning that the belts have stripped. And there are some threads turned in the car. He wants a refund and has opened an eBay case against me. I see its a bit like wearing some new underpants for a month and then wanting your money back !? Advice would be appreciated. Ill put the links up when I get home.

[Martin Wallace]

Hi guys

Just a heads up to be wary about selling vintage shelfers on eBay. Always state that they may not be suitable for running with modern brushless electronics.

I purchased from eBay a Losi xx4 last summer as a SHELF queen. It was rebuilt by someone else who listed the new parts they had fitted. I looked over the car upon delivery and the description seemed accurate. The car was very tidy for such an old model. i left him five stars and positive feedback. All i did was give it a thorough clean, fitted new rims and a new shell. Its been sat on my shelf for six months ever since. I decided to move it on for funding towards new cars so copied and pasted the advert i had purchased the car from and added the additional information as appropriate. Some muppet has purchased it in november, ran it with what I'm assuming is a brushless system and is moaning that the belts have stripped. And there are some threads turned in the car. He wants a refund and has opened an eBay case against me. I see its a bit like wearing some new underpants for a month and then wanting your money back !? Advice would be appreciated. Ill put the links up when I get home.

All you needed to put was sold as seen. If you listed it as a shelf queen and not a runner I don't see how he has a case tbh. Looks like he got his wires crossed and thought it was a car he could use with today's technology

[Rich D]

All you needed to put was sold as seen. If you listed it as a shelf queen and not a runner I don't see how he has a case tbh. Looks like he got his wires crossed and thought it was a car he could use with today's technology


Cheers Martin, thats pretty much what i was thinking but im a little wary that as eBay arent educated in the specifics of this hobby they may decide to refund him and ill end up with no car and no money for it.

Here is the listing i purchased the car from ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/rare-vintage-Tlr-Team-Losi-Xx4-High-Spec-/251118188547?item=251118188547&ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160&nma=true&si=VDWyKkvbMIs/Jxs43kEHi5D1AlQ=&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


I cleaned it, fitted a new shell and wing as it had a few scuffs and fitted new wheels and wheel nuts. That was it. I didnt strip it apart to verify that every part was as per the listing but even if i had done, how could i or indeed this disgruntled buyer verify whether the belts were new !! ?? I left the seller 100% five star feedback FFS.

Here is my own advert. If im out of line then fair enough but i cant see i am ? Im a bit wary of getting the car back though as i cant imagine what hes done with it :(.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281036543021&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:GB:1123


The guy must be a bit of a nut job as hes sent me 7 lengthy messages in less than 24 hours despite sitting on it for a month and " spending a fortune on it" before stripping a belt and deciding hes not happy. Idiot.

I now have an open eBay case that i need to deal with so id appreciate advice whether it be in my favour or against it.

Thanks guys.

[Naushad]

I have a xx4we and it can't be massively different from the xx4. I have the magic setup and it runs beautifully.

You can run brushless but pretty mild, say 10.5t, without melting down.

I'm assuming that unless he hasn't done his homework and has got crazy by plugging in 5.5t with wrong gearing etc...the xx4 is unlikely to cope with that.

Can't really comment about the stripped threads but I don't think he has a good case especially after how long has passed! He may have modified it compared to when you last had it. You have also provided a good description so I can't see it getting far.

Bottom line..you should know your stuff before buying. That's why these forums are useful:thumbsup:

There are lots of deluded ppl putting 11.1v 3s lipo and 4.5t brushless for "speed" in off roaders. Unless you like to see your car melt and run dizzy in circles this is pointless....

[Darren Boyle]

It is probably more the "age" of the belts rather then their condition, the Losi belts do disintergrate literally over time on their own....

Darren Bloomfield ran his XX4 last year and it was more than up to todays modern brushless (not saying he did not have to keep on top of it, but it did take it OK)

As for eBay they are a law to themselves on things like this and the one reason I never go near the place...

[Oval/offroadracer43]

I dont know about ebay sometimes.

There's alot of people here that have gotten ripped off.:yawn:
I dont know about the UK auctions as I live in the united states.
Just be careful on what you sell, and be more careful on what you buy.
I have not used Ebay in about 4 years I just dont trust those sellers on there.

[cigbunt]

such is life he bought it as you stated it..
ran it then broke it... its his problem now!

does he want a refund? there are some horror stories of buyers opening cases it goes to dispute ebay side if buyer then he gets a refund and doesn't return the item..

might be worth taking a hit and giving him a part refund say £7-8 (ive got no clue how much they cost) so he can buy his belts and get off you back..

[Rich D]

It is probably more the "age" of the belts rather then their condition, the Losi belts do disintergrate literally over time on their own....

Darren Bloomfield ran his XX4 last year and it was more than up to todays modern brushless (not saying he did not have to keep on top of it, but it did take it OK)

As for eBay they are a law to themselves on things like this and the one reason I never go near the place...


Yeah cheers Darren, i didnt wish to knock the Losi in any way, it was and is a fantastic car but its unforgiving in the hands of muppets. Im half hoping that this thread might flush him out if hes on here :woot: ??

As for your comments on eBay this is my fear too. Im going to offer to replace the belts that are " hard to find and very expensive from the USA " . Are you getting the picture ? :yawn:

Cheers

[Naushad]

Well I've used ebay for almost 10 years. I had one bad transaction where the seller sent me a transmitter which did not fit the description. The seller was from Spain and despite my language barrier ebay saw in my favour.

I think ebay is on the whole good...you just need to do your homework before buying.

There will always be a rotten apple but most of the time it's good.

With regards to this transaction I don't think rich d will have an issue. Anyhow, you put no returns accepted.

[discothesnake]

I purchased a YZ-10 a month or so back and had some issues at the start.

The car was billed as 'built and unused' but when the car arrived there was pieces missing. I sent the guy a few messages with no reply so I contacted eBay.

To be fair to the guy, he did eventually get back and sent me some new parts.

This guy you're dealing with sounds like he doesn't really know what he's doing. It's unfortunate that you come across characters like this.

[Rich D]

Well I've used ebay for almost 10 years. I had one bad transaction where the seller sent me a transmitter which did not fit the description. The seller was from Spain and despite my language barrier ebay saw in my favour.

I think ebay is on the whole good...you just need to do your homework before buying.

There will always be a rotten apple but most of the time it's good.

With regards to this transaction I don't think rich d will have an issue. Anyhow, you put no returns accepted.

I thought i did mate, thanks for clarifying that. On my screen i cant see that information. Im going to offer to pay for some new belts and see where that takes us.

[Darren Boyle]

Yeah cheers Darren, i didnt wish to knock the Losi in any way, it was and is a fantastic car but its unforgiving in the hands of muppets. Im half hoping that this thread might flush him out if hes on here :woot: ??

As for your comments on eBay this is my fear too. Im going to offer to replace the belts that are " hard to find and very expensive from the USA " . Are you getting the picture ? :yawn:

Cheers

Ironic we have had an enquiry for some XX4 belts today (which we have in stock), not from somewhere in Sandinavia by any coincedence is it???

[Rich D]

Ironic we have had an enquiry for some XX4 belts today (which we have in stock), not from somewhere in Sandinavia by any coincedence is it???


Haha yes !!

[nosequehacer]

I´ve used ebay for years, selling and buying. I have had only one problem with a guy that opened a case asking me a refund for a set of vintage shocks that didn´t arrive. I saw after a month this user selling "my set of shocks"
Probably you can find a scammer, may be not. I still use ebay and almost every people are honest like you and me.

By the way, here in Spain are scammers too, like everywhere ;)

[mark christopher]

Ironic we have had an enquiry for some XX4 belts today (which we have in stock), not from somewhere in Sandinavia by any coincedence is it???

Haha yes !!


might be worth putting the above in the reply to ebay rich...

belts are a consumable, no where in your ad that i can see you put ready to race/run you have made clear its a shelf queen for a collector!

[Robby]

Hi guys

Just a heads up to be wary about selling vintage shelfers on eBay. Always state that they may not be suitable for running with modern brushless electronics.

I purchased from eBay a Losi xx4 last summer as a SHELF queen. It was rebuilt by someone else who listed the new parts they had fitted. I looked over the car upon delivery and the description seemed accurate. The car was very tidy for such an old model. i left him five stars and positive feedback. All i did was give it a thorough clean, fitted new rims and a new shell. Its been sat on my shelf for six months ever since. I decided to move it on for funding towards new cars so copied and pasted the advert i had purchased the car from and added the additional information as appropriate. Some muppet has purchased it in november, ran it with what I'm assuming is a brushless system and is moaning that the belts have stripped. And there are some threads turned in the car. He wants a refund and has opened an eBay case against me. I see its a bit like wearing some new underpants for a month and then wanting your money back !? Advice would be appreciated. Ill put the links up when I get home.

As long as you sold it in "As Is" condition, I'd think you'd be OK.

And honestly, I've been running my XX4 with brushless for the last 3 years or so - and since we initially ran them with 10-turn motors I find it hard to believe that was the problem.
Sounds more like "user error" on the buyer's part to me.

Ultimately, being as he's had it over a month I don't see how the problem is yours anyway and I'd be shocked if ebay rule Good luck.

[Rich D]

Cheers for the support fellas, looks like hes accepted £10 for his belts. The case will be closed once his eCheque clears. Luckily i emptied my Paypal account so he will have to wait for that ;)

Amazing how upset some people can get themselves over a £9 belt. The guy is unstable, i was calm and maybe a little condescending which i think was winding him up :thumbsup:

[Frecklychimp]

Hi Rich,

Did you specify a returns policy?

Unfortunately ebay will usually back the buyer in claims unless you contact them direct and explain situation, well worth spending time on the phone defending your case and pointing out that the item is consumable

Through paypal you can offer refund on receipt of the item returned in same condition as sold... the return is at buyers expense and when it is returned you simply state the case it is damaged and not as you sent it... use your photos to prove the point.

I wouldn't offer to replace the belts, the item is as you specified and described and why should you lose out to an idiot?

A model shop wouldnt refund on damage caused by a customer, these items are sold as seen.

[Rich D]

Hi Rich,

Did you specify a returns policy?

Unfortunately ebay will usually back the buyer in claims unless you contact them direct and explain situation, well worth spending time on the phone defending your case and pointing out that the item is consumable

Through paypal you can offer refund on receipt of the item returned in same condition as sold... the return is at buyers expense and when it is returned you simply state the case it is damaged and not as you sent it... use your photos to prove the point.

I wouldn't offer to replace the belts, the item is as you specified and described and why should you lose out to an idiot?

A model shop wouldnt refund on damage caused by a customer, these items are sold as seen.

Hi Mark

Having heard horror stories about eBay refunding buyers whilst they still keep hold of the goods, i decided that £10 wasnt a lot to lose. Im not upset by it. I would be if he had stung me for the £175 it cost by the time it was shipped over there.

Sadly he can only see it as a new car and had made his mind up that the belts werent new after he stripped them.

I specified no returns but in some cases it would seem that this is meaningless. Having had almost 1000 dealings and only this one bad one, its a case of taking the rough with the smooth for the minimum stress :)

Cheers mate

Rich

[Adam F]

I had a similar problem with an RC heli I sold on the bay...

Sold it to a chap, then he rings me the next day saying he had crashed it as it didn't fly straight and it was my fault as I had sold him a dodgy heli...

He then told me that he had spent £70 on replacement parts and he wanted me to pay for it!!!

Needless to say... I didn't pay him... ;)

I think you are very generous to pay £10... but sometimes needs must....

Losi looks very nice in the ad though... well worth £150!

[Rich D]

I had a similar problem with an RC heli I sold on the bay...

Sold it to a chap, then he rings me the next day saying he had crashed it as it didn't fly straight and it was my fault as I had sold him a dodgy heli...

He then told me that he had spent £70 on replacement parts and he wanted me to pay for it!!!

Needless to say... I didn't pay him... ;)

I think you are very generous to pay £10... but sometimes needs must....

Losi looks very nice in the ad though... well worth £150!


I feel your pain bud and thanks for the compliment. The car was fine but i would have been dubious about fitting a brushless system into it myself hence the term SHELF queen. It wasnt new built. I dont doubt his belt stripped. Quite likely ! Some muppet with a 27 feedback who made too many assumptions without doing his homework im afraid.

As i had to sort it out through the resolution centre i was left with punting £10 at him, giving him a refund completely after getting a car back he likely wouldn`t have been very sympathetic with or risking them clicking through their list of open cases and refunding him without me even seeing the car again. It was the lesser of the three evils ! :)

[eddscott]

My understanding of typical Ebay rulings in situations like this is that ebay won't find In the buyers favour as they can't comment on condition of the item. I had a problem with an MP777 I sold. Guy was unhappy with condition and opened a dispute. It went to claim and was dismissed.

The YZ10s I bought I had all sorts of problems getting them from the buyer and I even got the refund on both cars. The cars did arrive and like a good soul gave the money back.

[DerbyDan]

It sounds like you came to a good compromise.... but its a shame that it sounds like such a nice car has ended up in the hands of someone who sounds like a bit of a muppet :bored:

It appears that the Losi belts do degrade quite badly over time (I can remember the original belts used to be a weak item anyway & would quite often snap) - a fellow RC10Talk.com member has recently completed a Street Weapon IWC rebuild - another ebay purchase, which when it arrived appeared to have had very little use, yet on the stripdown this is what was found;

http://www.rc10talk.com/download/file.php?id=66126

Of course being a vintage R/C fan embarking on a re-build for shelf display you accept that you may find parts that have degraded &/or need replacing. To the less initiated who sees a car that can be stuffed full of the latest R/C gear for thrashing about, may not appreciate the car's vintage (especially of one that appears almost new!) Maybe dissapointed that the belts had turned to mush ;)

[Rich D]

It sounds like you came to a good compromise.... but its a shame that it sounds like such a nice car has ended up in the hands of someone who sounds like a bit of a muppet :bored:

It appears that the Losi belts do degrade quite badly over time (I can remember the original belts used to be a weak item anyway & would quite often snap) - a fellow RC10Talk.com member has recently completed a Street Weapon IWC rebuild - another ebay purchase, which when it arrived appeared to have had very little use, yet on the stripdown this is what was found;

http://www.rc10talk.com/download/file.php?id=66126

Of course being a vintage R/C fan embarking on a re-build for shelf display you accept that you may find parts that have degraded &/or need replacing. To the less initiated who sees a car that can be stuffed full of the latest R/C gear for thrashing about, may not appreciate the car's vintage (especially of one that appears almost new!) Maybe dissapointed that the belts had turned to mush ;)


Oh no he's not a muppet, he's a Losi expert as his message states !

Why must this continue with petty insults. 2 msgs insulting me is not really very wise. Believe me I know this car very well and I know a great deal of its history and information regarding Team Losi and the XX4. My problem is with the stating of New items that are not new, in fact are very old and you dont even bother checking this fact. My issue is with this fact, not lack of research or any info that you think you may have enlightened me with. You are not obviously as experienced as you believe. I have on "ASSUMED" THAT BY THE WORD NEW, YOU ACTUALLY MEAN THIS AND YOUR WORD CAN BE TRUSTED. OBVIOUSLY I ASSUMED WRONG. refund the 10pound to my paypal. Stop these cheap insults feigning your apparent superiority and DO THE RIGHT THING, THAT HAS BEEN MY PROBLEM. You will NOT bully me into being quiet about a bad sale on your behalf.

[jo90]

This is a grey area. I agree, your advert doesn't say this is a modern top of the line competition racer, however it also doesn't state that it cannot be used for this and that.

Rightly mentioned though in this thread that if EBay find in his favour he must return the car in the exact condition it was bought. If there are scrapes on it, marks or imperfection he must replace all these or forgoe a refund. I would ensure you contact Ebay stating your case, include photo's of the car and the details of it's sale. I would also include all emails sent by the buyer as you can see he is now harrasing you.

General rule of thumb for me is that I state everything on ebay when selling something. For instance a while ago now I sold some items. they where RC related and I was clear on each ad if there was a defect or imperfection, and detailed what affect that had on the product.

One sale was for a Hudy lathe. The lathe was fine bar one of the bearings had seased (spelling) on one of the comm arm holders. this had caused the plastic clip holding the arm to melt slightly. I replaced it with a small metal block I had that did the same as the plastic, though I couldnt get the bearing out to replace it. I stated this all in the ad. I had questions about the bearing etc from people who clearly hadn't read the descrition right. Eventually the guy who bought it was savy. He collected it from me and paid for it, even discussing the faulty bit and saying not to worry, he had a press etc and could sort that out.

Alot of the time with Ebay sales it is aht lack of knowlegde, or pure lazyness to read into an Ad, that causes the issue.

Hope you get this sorted out though.

[rapidrubberwill]

i sold a arai helmet on ebay £500+ helmet when new a week later i got a reply saying it was all damaged down one side got it back and he must have crashed it as it was mint when sent and destroyed when i got it back ebay refunded all the money and left me with a helmet not even worth putting in the bin and no cash it was the final straw for me with ebay they allways go in the favor of the buyer not the seller who 9 out of 10 times has done nothing wrong but be scammed ebay never ever again

[Moose]

I sold some tires on ebay- 10 auctions. 3 People complained about shipping costs (which were clear) and one complained that I wrote the address wrong. But the post fixed it and it arrived the next day- so I didnt see a problem.
He was unbelievable mad at me because I wrote it wrong and didnt want to refund because it arrived perfectly. Got a bad ebay judgement for it. Think it offended him that the name wasnt 100% correct lol. Have to say it was really hard to get what he really wanted and half the sentences where nonsense. (It was in my native language not in English :))

I gave my last 10 sets of tires a guy on the track which didnt make me happy afterwards but at least I didnt get 2 emails a day about my stuff on ebay :D

On ebay everyone is crazy and everyone hopes to find somebody who is even more stupid than himself. Sooooo many people just try to get the price lower after buying so I just wouldnt care as those guys.

[pugboy]

In my experience of ebay selling the attitude and knowledge of buyers varies tremendously. It is an absolute minefield. This is such a specialised hobby that it is always risky selling anything on ebay unless you caveat everything you write. I have had problems selling even very simple items in the past. I really don't envy your situation here. Especially with a car like the xx4 which requires meticulous setting up of the transmission in my experience. The issue you may face next (hopefully not) is that once a belt has snapped in doing so it often tends to cause slight damage to the pulley(s) so as soon as you fit another belt it snaps again when any significant load is placed on it, which will be straight away if the slipper is not set up correctly and it's on a high grip surface.

Just my two-pennies worth, I really hope you've heard the last of it.

[Rich D]

In my experience of ebay selling the attitude and knowledge of buyers varies tremendously. It is an absolute minefield. This is such a specialised hobby that it is always risky selling anything on ebay unless you caveat everything you write. I have had problems selling even very simple items in the past. I really don't envy your situation here. Especially with a car like the xx4 which requires meticulous setting up of the transmission in my experience. The issue you may face next (hopefully not) is that once a belt has snapped in doing so it often tends to cause slight damage to the pulley(s) so as soon as you fit another belt it snaps again when any significant load is placed on it, which will be straight away if the slipper is not set up correctly and it's on a high grip surface.

Just my two-pennies worth, I really hope you've heard the last of it.

Cheers Chris

If there are any repercussions then I will be pointing eBay in the direction of this thread. That was the main reason for me starting it. The case will automatically close once he gets his £10 via echeque that's waiting to clear so it should all be sorted. The guy is unstable and a menace. The message he sent me I quoted above was sent after I had offered the £10 in the resolution centre. All he had to do was click the button to agree to it. Again, he didn't read it properly. I told him to stick to Swedish listings in future as its evident he has an inherent problem understanding the English language.

[Moose]

It s impossible to make it right. Those guys will give you a bad judgement on ebay anyway because they hope you will offer some money to turn it into a good judgement. That is the way it always works.
After you got the bad one you can only comment on him positive. But anyway ebay will erase your bad judgements after some month because bad judgements will make less people buy and ebay wants you to sell as much has possible because thats the way they make money.
It is all about selling and not about the real problem. It is obvious that you are right with everything you did and you were much too gentle.
As long as you sell private nothing is wrong and you clearly did everything to help the customer.
Ebay feels sometimes like marshaling you do your best and when its your turn you see you are the only one who really cares.

[DanB4]

I sold an old Super Nintendo and the buyer refuses to pay shipping which I clearly stated in the listing.

I used the live online chat today and had a good conversation with an ebay employee who checked the listing and confirmed I'm in the right and am not obliged to send for free and not to worry.

This is a good service they offer as I now have an email transcript of aforementioned chat so if I have any hassle with the buyer I'll just hit him with it.