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tony12795
30-01-2013, 08:33 AM
Woody - so what’s the plan at LDA for tyres as the NW is open class for tyres. Are we going to spec tyres here? I don’t want to go out and buy tyres what may or may not work at a large cost?

Tony

andy110m
30-01-2013, 09:09 AM
Hi Tony,

Sorry, I know you aimed this at Woody, but I don't think you need to spec a tyre. Hotshots work reasonably well, however most people use silver mini spikes.

Why don't you come this Friday and get a feel for it? This Friday will be in the main arena where I expect Mark will put the regional track. We normally use the smaller side one so this will be a good chance to get a flavor of things to come.

Be good to see you and anyone else there.

Thanks.

coleman758
02-02-2013, 02:50 PM
There is no tyre rule.

Silver Spikes, are the key.

tony12795
03-02-2013, 08:20 PM
Apparently silvers clog up and that's not what Mark runs.

This is a very different surface to what we run normally and if the track was grass, astro or carpet any tyres will work and I would not give a flying sh1t, but it's not.

If I turn up and people are running tyres that are not normal for the uk then what happens then? I just want clarification of what tyres work and what does not.

Surely it's in the clubs interest for this type of track to spec tyres.....

Tony

cflynn1981
03-02-2013, 09:08 PM
blue minispike They work and rib front tyre

andy05
03-02-2013, 09:28 PM
would proline step pins not work? thats what use to be used at tiverton which was the same type of surface(horse s**t)?

burgie
03-02-2013, 09:59 PM
blue minispikes and ballistic buggy tires give reasonable grip. However, the tyre that MArk uses is not a "normal" tyre, but is commercially available, I understand. Can't remember the name of them right now though.

it seems the harder the compound the better the grip - not sure how that turns out when all the loose stuff is off the racing line and the hard surface underneath comes into use.

Jamie B4
04-02-2013, 08:16 AM
Guys I'm with Tony probably won't be attending this regional unless the tire situation is sorted we need to nominate a tire so that it is fair to all and not just home advantage, nothing worse than turning up and not being prepared with tires etc especially if you are doing two classes on one day.

Seems to be a lot of people concerned with this regional and if your not careful not many will attend.

funkygrump81
04-02-2013, 08:46 AM
Whats all the fuss about , i remember last year at southlakes i think every different car in a heat were on different tyres , tyre choice is part of racing if people are that bothered then go too a club meeting and do some testing see what works best for you i know thts what ill be doing , theres 4 month before this regional so plenty of time so get some testing in the club runs every week

losichris
04-02-2013, 08:53 AM
Whats all the fuss about , i remember last year at southlakes i think every different car in a heat were on different tyres , tyre choice is part of racing if people are that bothered then go too a club meeting and do some testing see what works best for you i know thts what ill be doing , theres 4 month before this regional so plenty of time so get some testing in the club runs every week

Couldnt agree more, you cant expect drivers to share what theyve been testing for weeks and weeks. Where would the advantage be on race day? if you want to know what works best, go and see for yourself!!

MatJohnson
04-02-2013, 08:59 AM
But a little help on what tyres to chose will make the day more enjoyable. The better the day, the more likely people are to return to the club as they know its good. If you spend your runs changing tyres then it won't be as fun.

coleman758
04-02-2013, 09:07 AM
Couldnt agree more, you cant expect drivers to share what theyve been testing for weeks and weeks. Where would the advantage be on race day? if you want to know what works best, go and see for yourself!!

Too True!

Ive got my setup bang on for LDA, But Southlakes & Barrow are an unknown.
I'm not moaning about tyres!

LDA is on every Friday night, There must me 10+ meetings to test tyres before the regional

tony12795
04-02-2013, 11:06 AM
Sorry guys I am not moaning I just want to know what tyres people are running - How can I go on Friday night for a practise if I don’t have tyres.

Matt what tyres do you run?

Although it is completely baffling how you can compare Southlake’s and Barrow which are on grass to LDA.



Too True!

Ive got my setup bang on for LDA, But Southlakes & Barrow are an unknown.
I'm not moaning about tyres!

LDA is on every Friday night, There must me 10+ meetings to test tyres before the regional

tony12795
04-02-2013, 11:08 AM
What tyres do you run Chris ?

Couldnt agree more, you cant expect drivers to share what theyve been testing for weeks and weeks. Where would the advantage be on race day? if you want to know what works best, go and see for yourself!!

andy110m
04-02-2013, 11:14 AM
I agree with Matt, turn up with some mini spikes you'll be fine. Some debate on which compound is best, blue or silver, I think Mark running ballistics.

And we had a great night racing on Friday, in the larger hall where the regional will be, but how many of you turned up to try the place or do some testing?

It was that good people were asking Mark to add an extra round in, even though it meant a late night, we had a vote and over 2/3's wanted the extra round. It was a really good nights off road racing.

LDA are having a GP day on the 17th of March so why not get booked in? You'll have a good days racing, understand what works and leave with a set up for the regional?

MikePimlott
04-02-2013, 12:56 PM
And we had a great night racing on Friday, in the larger hall where the regional will be, but how many of you turned up to try the place or do some testing?

To cold, dirty, smelly, noisey for me :woot:

Watched the videos and did the surface stay that loose all night ?

Plus, it looked very "open" for tenth. A tad boring!

DanW
04-02-2013, 02:04 PM
Watched the videos and did the surface stay that loose all night ?


Have to agree with you there Mike, the track did look really loose in that vid, some big rooster tails, might try a pair of these....

http://www2.gpmd.com/image/h/hpic4412.jpg

Could just be how it showed up in the vid though!

:p :p :p

I understand the concerns expressed. Although Schumacher minis apparently work is something more exotic and less common in UK supply going to give a competative edge.

Hopefully as the regional gets closer more meetings will have been run and we will get a much better idea of the "best" tyres.

coleman758
04-02-2013, 03:19 PM
Tony, LDA Drives like a grass track with no grass...

I run silvers on my Vega, Ive got it dialled, PM me your email address il send you my setup sheet.
There is a loose layer, but that quickly gets moved to the side, The racing line develops really nicely into an almost sticky clay.

Its a really great surface!,

Also don't forget the track in the video is for 1/8th so it is alot bigger. I think it was way to big for 1/10.

stuart slmcc
04-02-2013, 04:31 PM
If you would like to no what works at the south lakes why not pop up before our regional in august and find out .


http://slmcc.freeforums.org/outdoors-2013-t1557.html

We are at the regional site full time as from march :thumbsup:

scotty_big_flip
04-02-2013, 06:54 PM
The racing line develops really nicely into an almost sticky clay.


Are you sure ur talking about LDA ? it stats loose and gets looser. i saw birms developing of line last time. its a million miles away from any sort of clay track. think more racing on the beach with added sh1t... :p

cwp
04-02-2013, 06:58 PM
The sticky clay is horseshit LOL.

V6Jim
04-02-2013, 08:24 PM
It does clean down to a hard clay surface. Eventually. In small areas.

I used Schumacher Green Mini Spike fronts and Yellow Mini Spikes on the rear. Worked well enough, but I think if you could find a tyre that has slightly bigger spikes with slightly bigger gaps between the spikes it would work a treat. I don't think the compound is all that important as long as they're kinda softish. Schumacher full spikes are too far the other way.

Too much grip could be a problem too as a lot of cars, especially the Nitros, were grip rolling violently at the end of the straight.

So, in the mean time Mini Spikes are tried and tested..

Jimmy

andy110m
04-02-2013, 08:38 PM
Its normally used for horses, like the venue used for Noel Nitro. Those guys used machines to take the top layer of loose dirt off to get to the clay underneath. At LDA the owner rolls the top but as the racing goes on the loose dirt is pushed to the outsides of the corner so berms start to appear and to me this is when the track is at its best.

On Friday this happened much sooner in the meeting with the 8th cars buzzing around. Anyone who didn't come missed out, these cars are designed to race on dirt after all.

MikePimlott
04-02-2013, 08:40 PM
I think if this is going to be a venue for a regional then the surface needs prepping correctly, not just laying down pipe on horse shit and running tractor tyres.

Rolling and packing correctly like all the other dirt venues have done. The opportunity is there to make something special, Im sure Mark realises this or he wouldnt be trying so hard to get it going.

Proline dirt arena

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu125/mikepimlott/PDSRd2-1_zps37e68e8c.jpg

RHR dirt :wub

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu125/mikepimlott/cp2_zpsa9b44972.jpg

Harper Adams NEO

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu125/mikepimlott/OOP_1828_zps548133a3.jpg

scotty_big_flip
04-02-2013, 09:11 PM
like the venue used for Noel Nitro. Those guys used machines to take the top layer of loose dirt off to get to the clay underneath. .

not 100% true sir. i was at the noel event talking to wez. they hoped to take the layor of dirt of and uncover clay, however what thay found was not clay but more like composted wood chip and horse poop. thats why all the jumps bar the big one (which was coverd with astro to stop crumbling) were dug out of the ground rather that being shaped above. i believe the Dirt works team (noel nitro) plan to import 30ton of clay to shape for the upcoming bunny boiler cup. Also it takes a team of around 20 people a week to build the 1/8th neo buggy meeting every year down at the harper addams collage. But hay im sure the LDA lads are more than up to the challange and i cant wait for the regional event. :thumbsup:

andy110m
04-02-2013, 09:30 PM
Mike, this is already something special and it is already a regional venue.

This dirt can't be compacted to be the same as Neo or RHR because it doesn't stick together, when it does berm up the ground underneath is hard and clay like.

Come on guys, lets get behind this and start to think of positives, instead of thinking what we can't and negatives. Its a track, same for everyone and like any other, its takes a lot of work to put on a regional so I think Mark should be supported in this.

A set of mini spikes or any open spike tyre and you'll have a good day, and not only that but the tyre wear we're seeing is nothing.

tinnylad
04-02-2013, 09:39 PM
I don't think people are being negative, people who have been are just stating it was more like sand than the clay as others have been making out.

jampat2004
06-02-2013, 10:25 PM
Apparently silvers clog up and that's not what Mark runs.

This is a very different surface to what we run normally and if the track was grass, astro or carpet any tyres will work and I would not give a flying sh1t, but it's not.

If I turn up and people are running tyres that are not normal for the uk then what happens then? I just want clarification of what tyres work and what does not.

Surely it's in the clubs interest for this type of track to spec tyres.....

TonyBallistic buggy greens are the tyres to use used on my 4wd and worked a treat.

Jesse James
06-02-2013, 11:26 PM
Did some testing a while ago with Mark at LDA and Cut Spikes (available in medium and soft compounds) worked really well.

The Cut Spike tires are available from JC Racing Products.

http://www.jcracingproducts.co.uk/home/

coleman758
07-02-2013, 12:25 PM
The track is "DIRT"

Its never going to be clay like RHR.
The venue is ace, Its a real different style of driving.

Its something that the NW has been missing, Now it has it, people are moaning at it, Im seeing comments from people that have not even been!

Its a great venue and the regional should be good.

V6Jim
07-02-2013, 07:28 PM
The track is "DIRT"

Its never going to be clay like RHR.
The venue is ace, Its a real different style of driving.

Its something that the NW has been missing, Now it has it, people are moaning at it, Im seeing comments from people that have not even been!

Its a great venue and the regional should be good.

I agree 100%! It's dirt and it's lovely! At the end of the night it was like a Motocross track! Bumps and berms and jumps. Excellent fun!
Jimmy

Spencer Mulcahy
07-02-2013, 08:07 PM
I think people are not complaining about the venue they just need to know what tyres to take for the regional and not take the wrong ones. It being such a different venue than what we are used to it should be a control tyre then there is no advantage for anyone. Southport is ny on a unwritten control tyre as we all know what works.

coleman758
07-02-2013, 08:22 PM
But surely people should test things before regionals?

I have tested tyres, my time & money why would I tell everyone?
There is plenty of club nights, including tomorrow come along and try it.

Spencer Mulcahy
07-02-2013, 09:02 PM
That's the thing I can't race every week and I can't race Fridays so I won't be able to go to any club meetings to test tyres I will be at a disadvantage and I don't want to start throwing money at tyres that I won't use anywhere else just to find the right one. It does sound like a fantastic venue and I am looking forward to the regional and maybe other races with either 10th or 8th that I may be able to do but I want to take tyres that work.

andy110m
07-02-2013, 09:30 PM
Matt makes a great point, we are having a meeting tomorrow evening. Who's going to come, have a great evening of racing whilst getting some testing done?

All welcome

Spence, Get yourself booked in for the meeting on the 17th of March buddy. Thats a Sunday and with plenty of notice. You and I have raced on Carpet, Astro, Wooden floors, concrete floors and tarmac, in all sorts of different buildings, only right we try dirt in an equestrian centre! I'll give you a sporting chance, I'll use a wheel tranny! :p

MikePimlott
07-02-2013, 09:47 PM
I have tested tyres, my time & money why would I tell everyone?

because thats the nature of the hobby, friendly and helpful :p

anything else just puts people off :o

Spencer Mulcahy
07-02-2013, 09:58 PM
Andy I will take that challenge one day my friend lol, but the 17th I have my son for the weekend so can't race. I would have loved to do it bit of 1/8th and 1/10 th in one day.

V6Jim
07-02-2013, 10:58 PM
Just put Schumacher mini spikes all round. Greens or Yellows or Silvers do the job. I used Green fronts and Yellow rears and the balance was perfect. Getting tyres that grip more might be a mistake - grip rolling was very evident. With the Mini Spikes you can just chuck it into corners with no worries!

Other tyres will no doubt work too, it's a pretty forgiving surface.

Jimmy

Jamie B4
08-02-2013, 10:38 AM
Is the surface wet or anything done to it as had a look at a couple of peoples cars that have been and they looked pretty bad. Just wondering if the cars will need a complete strip down after a friday night.

tinnylad
08-02-2013, 11:02 AM
Definately need a strip down afterwards. I ended up with a big pile of dirt at home the next day! The sandy stuff gets everywhere. :thumbsup:

coleman758
08-02-2013, 01:22 PM
because thats the nature of the hobby, friendly and helpful :p

anything else just puts people off :o

Or should I re-phrase,

Why should I tell people what works, If they cant be bothered to come...

The track is wet the night before & rolled. The cars do get full of dirt, But I leave mine over night till its dry.
Then brush it off. If you have an airline or compressed air cans it just blows off.

V6Jim
08-02-2013, 02:42 PM
Is the surface wet or anything done to it as had a look at a couple of peoples cars that have been and they looked pretty bad. Just wondering if the cars will need a complete strip down after a friday night.

Yeah, you need to strip and clean it. Having said that, mine, after looking in a desperate state when I got it home, cleaned up a treat! Everything was fine and not a single bearing needed replaced!

Jimmy.

MikePimlott
08-02-2013, 05:11 PM
Why should I tell people what works, If they cant be bothered to come..

I race Sundays, no other days as i have a full time job and a full time family.

The day i am permitted to race is Sunday, and i support the club that i am a member of, So at no point before the regional do i plan on or am going to get chance to race at LDA. Yes this is "MY" problem. and to be honest i probably wont go when its the regional either BUT you ask any member of any other club what tyres work at their track, i bet you get a straight answer.

:thumbsup:

tinnylad
08-02-2013, 05:18 PM
BUT you ask any member of any other club what tyres work at their track, i bet you get a straight answer.

:thumbsup:

This is true

Spencer Mulcahy
08-02-2013, 06:01 PM
Just what I was trying to got across Mike.

sly
08-02-2013, 06:26 PM
Will Foam tyres work?

MikePimlott
08-02-2013, 06:33 PM
Will Foam tyres work?

:woot: your obsessed man!

Spencer Mulcahy
08-02-2013, 06:48 PM
Will Foam tyres work?

You have to use horse piss as additive.:woot:

sly
08-02-2013, 06:57 PM
You have to use horse piss as additive.:woot:
Cool, I wont have to buy any but just sit the car on the floor and it will grip like sh1t to a blanket:woot:

MattK
08-02-2013, 11:37 PM
I think the reason nobody has given a straight answer is because there is no specific tyre that works. I raced tonight for the first time using ballistic buggys, others were running full spikes, dboots and shumacher mini spikes! There was no clear tyre to have, everything seems to work in a fashion.
It's brilliant really, an open track on a surface that nobody seeme to have an advantage.
Its dirty off road, it's what these toys were made for, its great!!!!!

V6Jim
09-02-2013, 08:01 AM
I think the reason nobody has given a straight answer is because there is no specific tyre that works. I raced tonight for the first time using ballistic buggys, others were running full spikes, dboots and shumacher mini spikes! There was no clear tyre to have, everything seems to work in a fashion.
It's brilliant really, an open track on a surface that nobody seeme to have an advantage.
Its dirty off road, it's what these toys were made for, its great!!!!!

I have given a straight answer! Schumacher Mini Spikes - most compounds. Couldn't be clearer. Grips well, but not too much that you grip roll all the time.

You're right though, it's great!

Jimmy

MattK
09-02-2013, 09:04 AM
Sorry Jim, meant no offence. Just trying to get the point across that there is no magic tyre to use. If it has spikes it will work :)

coleman758
09-02-2013, 09:41 AM
I race Sundays, no other days as i have a full time job and a full time family.

The day i am permitted to race is Sunday, and i support the club that i am a member of, So at no point before the regional do i plan on or am going to get chance to race at LDA. Yes this is "MY" problem. and to be honest i probably wont go when its the regional either BUT you ask any member of any other club what tyres work at their track, i bet you get a straight answer.

:thumbsup:

I have said Schumacher Silvers about 8-times.... :D

funkygrump81
09-02-2013, 09:51 AM
Well we went last night and as for what people are saying about minispikes we tryed all compounds and they were crap , ended up running full spikes on the back but even they only worked early on track seemed too get looser and looser as night went on so even started struggling with them on not too mention all the horse hair wrapping round my driveshafts, hubs n clogging the shockers up which didnt help, the surface was jus too loose mark did say it hadnt been watered like previous so this could be why ?!?! I advice people too get down there and try it for yourselves

sly
26-02-2013, 07:06 PM
I have said Schumacher Silvers about 8-times.... :D

I heard a whisper from the horses mouth that silvers are .5 sec slower per lap.
So if the track is 10 laps in a run, so that 5 secs slower before your car sets off and covered in horse s**te.

danDanEFC
26-02-2013, 07:24 PM
So what are these mythical 0.5sec quicker tyres? Are they commercially available for all of us?

andy110m
26-02-2013, 07:38 PM
I've an idea, instead of all the speculation, why not come to a meeting and find out?

Thats the point of getting a regional, the hope is people will come and check the venue out before the event, see how good it is and maybe come more regularly.

But at this point I don't know what Mark must be thinking. Well I do actually but I don't want to put words in his mouth.

He's trying to give something back, provide something completely unique in the Northwest, he's not asking for thanks but I'd of thought he could of expected some support from racers but it appears not.

So my view, and its only one man's view, if you don't want to get your car dirty, don't want to race with no tyre wear on a surface entirely different or plain old just don't fancy it then please don't bother coming. However, if you do, then you'll be very welcome and we'll have a great time.

danDanEFC
26-02-2013, 07:59 PM
Andy I have been and enjoyed the racing and venue.

You know we are all old lady's worrying about everything.

I along with Grumpy couldn't find the right tires and others were definitely quicker.

If there is a different tire/setup that works better sharing that info cany only help LDA

andy110m
26-02-2013, 08:23 PM
Yes, I know you've been bud. There is no special tyre thats loads quicker than others. Most people use silver spikes although some have said blues are better, I like holeshots, I think Mark uses those cheap JC tyres or something, others have used full spikes. Really its down the individual, I tried the fastrax turf gripper last meeting and they worked OK. I don't think any tyre is going to be on rails so to speak, anything with spikes will work.

To address the 0.5 seconds issue thats come up I'll ask a question, the last time you (and when I say you I'm not aiming you at you Aid - just a general statement) raced Mark Smith at Southport, how did your fastest lap compare to his?

Jesse James
26-02-2013, 08:30 PM
I think Mark uses those cheap JC tyres or something,

Mark was/is using Cut Spikes

reelman_fishing
26-02-2013, 08:45 PM
I heard a whisper from the horses mouth that silvers are .5 sec slower per lap..

Was that just before it went into a burger :woot::woot:

sly
26-02-2013, 09:22 PM
I've an idea, instead of all the speculation, why not come to a meeting and find out?

Thats the point of getting a regional, the hope is people will come and check the venue out before the event, see how good it is and maybe come more regularly.

But at this point I don't know what Mark must be thinking. Well I do actually but I don't want to put words in his mouth.

He's trying to give something back, provide something completely unique in the Northwest, he's not asking for thanks but I'd of thought he could of expected some support from racers but it appears not.

So my view, and its only one man's view, if you don't want to get your car dirty, don't want to race with no tyre wear on a surface entirely different or plain old just don't fancy it then please don't bother coming. However, if you do, then you'll be very welcome and we'll have a great time.

So If i come along to have what you call 'a great time', Then I believe the original question in post 1 comes up again. Which tires?

Andy I have been and enjoyed the racing and venue.

You know we are all old lady's worrying about everything.

I along with Grumpy couldn't find the right tires and others were definitely quicker.

If there is a different tire/setup that works better sharing that info can only help LDA

As Aidan and others have tried and shared there findings that the tires they have used are crap. so post 1 comes up again Which Tires?

Yes, I know you've been bud. There is no special tyre thats loads quicker than others. Most people use silver spikes although some have said blues are better, I like holeshots, I think Mark uses those cheap JC tyres or something, others have used full spikes. Really its down the individual, I tried the fastrax turf gripper last meeting and they worked OK. I don't think any tyre is going to be on rails so to speak, anything with spikes will work.

To address the 0.5 seconds issue thats come up I'll ask a question, the last time you (and when I say you I'm not aiming you at you Aid - just a general statement) raced Mark Smith at Southport, how did your fastest lap compare to his?

http://www.srcc.co.uk/index.php?pid=628 0.57sec, ave 2.02secs

Now you name 'JC tyres or something' now starts to answer the questions everyone is asking.
With a answer that everyone is asking why should they turn up to be uncompetitive on the tires that most people say dont work?

Some transparency from the start might of seem more drivers at the venue.


Mark was/is using Cut Spikes
Thanks for your answer.

Evo_Snr
26-02-2013, 09:29 PM
Mark was/is using Cut Spikes

Can you please put a link up for the 1/10th cut spikes as used by Mark. As I can not find the on the web site. Also will there be enough stock to cover most drivers at the Regional. Please put up any other dealers that carry stock.

V6Jim
26-02-2013, 11:10 PM
A link won't work due to the nature of the JC website.

So, go here: http://www.jcracingproducts.co.uk/products/

Then JC Racing - Wheels - 1/10th Buggy Off-Road - 10th 4WD/2WD Cut spikes.

They look like they should work well, with good length of spike and plenty space between the spikes to allow the dirt not to clag. They're also cheap and come with inserts!

However, too much grip could be a bad thing as I saw quite a lot of cars grip rolling. That's why I stuck with the Yellow Schu Mini Spikes. They slid a bit, but still gave satisfactory, predictable performance.

Jimmy

andy110m
26-02-2013, 11:26 PM
Guys, thats just the tyre Mark used a meeting or so ago, I've tried them and they aren't any better than what I had, if fact I thought the fastrax was better.

The first few meetings Mark used Balistics and was still the quickest car at the meeting, no mystery here, fastest driver does the fastest time - I can't work out why some people think this is shocking.

We are being as transparent as possible, any round black tyre with spikes works, nothing has mega grip. Its simply down to personal choice.

But now we're back to the issue I raised earlier, how many of you are planning to attend a few meetings before the regional to try the surface and see what we're saying is correct?

andy110m
26-02-2013, 11:32 PM
I've just followed that link.

Heck I was right when I said cheap JC tyres, £4.99 a pair - wow, that is cheap. I know why Mark was using them now.

Jesse James
27-02-2013, 12:02 AM
I've just followed that link.

Heck I was right when I said cheap JC tyres, £4.99 a pair - wow, that is cheap. I know why Mark was using them now.

Nothing wrong with 'cheap' Andy :)

I am down at JC Racing Products tomorrow for a meeting and to pick up some stock of 1/8 scale stuff for PRCC on Sunday, so will see what level of stock John has of the Cut Spikes or can get before June 2. Fairly sure that they come in both medium and soft compounds. Will post back on here.

As previously mentioned, if you want more detail, go to JC website (www.jcracingproducts.co.uk) select products>JC Racing>Wheels>1/10 buggy offroad>5th item down "Cut Spike tyres.

I'm quite happy to bring stock of these up for Mark to sell on the day if people are interested.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd492/stevejames1/ARPTyres004_zps64e52cbd.jpg

TonyM
27-02-2013, 12:15 AM
But now we're back to the issue I raised earlier, how many of you are planning to attend a few meetings before the regional to try the surface and see what we're saying is correct?
For what its worth, I think that LDA would go a long way to helping themselves if they stuck to dates posted. For many of us to get there on time on a Friday would mean arranging to finish work early. You make the necessary arrangements, only to find it's cancelled.

I was going to come along and had prepared Er-Indoors for a Friday night on her own - brownie points spent to no avail - it was cancelled. You can never fully recover the brownie points when the intent was there :bored:

I know it's good for Mark to know beforehand if he will cover his costs, but I can say from our experience that getting people to put their name down on a list for a standard club race is just p*****g in the wind. Many won't commit themselves so that they don't let people down. Others will make a last minute decision to attend etc.

morpheus2010
27-02-2013, 08:03 PM
Mark has made a great effort to widen the range of racing in the North West putting in a considerable amount of time, effort and cost to get it off the ground.

If more people could support Mark and LDA by booking/racing at times proposed the numbers would get better and Mark would not have to cancel undersubscribed meetings.

Regarding the Tyres issue both venues at LDA are compressed course sand overlaid on clay. Best Boots for this type of surface is the same boots used on grass i.e. cut spikes. A stiff brush is good for cleaning.

Silly comments about horse S**t is unhelpful and misleading the arenas are maintained and cleaned by the Barton Equestrian Centre.

Hats off to Mark for making the effort to give others the opportunity and challenges. Help him to keep it going. :thumbsup:

Jesse James
28-02-2013, 12:18 AM
Nothing wrong with 'cheap' Andy :)

I am down at JC Racing Products tomorrow for a meeting and to pick up some stock of 1/8 scale stuff for PRCC on Sunday, so will see what level of stock John has of the Cut Spikes or can get before June 2. Fairly sure that they come in both medium and soft compounds. Will post back on here.

As previously mentioned, if you want more detail, go to JC website (www.jcracingproducts.co.uk (http://www.jcracingproducts.co.uk)) select products>JC Racing>Wheels>1/10 buggy offroad>5th item down "Cut Spike tyres.

I'm quite happy to bring stock of these up for Mark to sell on the day if people are interested.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd492/stevejames1/ARPTyres004_zps64e52cbd.jpg

As previous post, I have been down at JC Racing Products earlier today and they have stock holding of the Cut Spike front & rears, also 2wd front spikes if required.

If anyone is interested, please contact JC via their website or post on here and I will make sure that Mark has supply on the day trackside.

gazhillAE
28-02-2013, 10:12 AM
Nothing wrong with 'cheap' Andy :)

I am down at JC Racing Products tomorrow for a meeting and to pick up some stock of 1/8 scale stuff for PRCC on Sunday, so will see what level of stock John has of the Cut Spikes or can get before June 2. Fairly sure that they come in both medium and soft compounds. Will post back on here.

As previously mentioned, if you want more detail, go to JC website (www.jcracingproducts.co.uk) select products>JC Racing>Wheels>1/10 buggy offroad>5th item down "Cut Spike tyres.

I'm quite happy to bring stock of these up for Mark to sell on the day if people are interested.

http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd492/stevejames1/ARPTyres004_zps64e52cbd.jpg

Are they off a tractor ?

andy110m
28-02-2013, 06:33 PM
Well guys, the lack of support, smart horse shit comments and moaning over tyres has had an effect.

So you'll no longer need to worry about what tyres to use at LDA or even if you be attending the regional at LDA because Marks made the decision for you and decided enough is enough and shut the doors.

Thanks to all who have supported LDA in the past.

burgie
28-02-2013, 06:46 PM
That is a shame.

I only went a few times over Christmas because if the holiday period. I am unable to get to the track in time on Friday evening because of work.

It's sad to read all the smart comments about tyres and the surface quality by people who have never been. Its even worse to read comments denying help around tyres etc., so as to not "loose" their "competitive edge"

tinnylad
28-02-2013, 07:04 PM
He hasnt given it enough of a chance. With a regional round being secured and the Grand Prix event imminent, a potential of upto 100 drivers could have been coming through the doors. Could have secured the core members needed for the club. Everything gets canceled too easily, you going to have to fight to establish a new club in area full of strong clubs.

andy110m
28-02-2013, 07:54 PM
Antony, I've got a bit of a problem with your last post.

Mark has made an effort to get a club going for nearly 12 months now if you include the efforts made at Croston.

He's been at LDA since December with a high venue cost. So remember in this Marks a self employed taxi driver and he's giving up the best night of the week for a cabby besides Saturday.

So this costs him around £200 per night per week. Add to this he's losing close to £100 per night on the venue because of the low numbers and multipy the weeks, about 10 for easy numbers. So thick end of £3k lost without considering he bought all the AMB timing gear, laptop, track markings etc. Lets put £2k in for that and your starting to see the effort he's put into this and why I'm pissed at people slating it all and moaning about daft stuff.

If you don't think that level of commitment is fighting please tell me what is?

And to address your comment that things get cancelled to quickly. Marks only started to do this recently because the turn outs were so poor, as has been said, lots of negative comments from people who've never attended a meeting. So to try to avoid some of the risk he posts up with plenty of notice of the event and justs ask for people to say if they're going to come or not, simple. People will know if they plan to race on Friday by Wednesday evening. Surely.

So it doesn't matter now, all who came said how good and different it was but those who didn't will never know.

V6Jim
28-02-2013, 08:23 PM
So sad.

I loved that place! The big track, loose dirt, the berms!

So sad.

Jimmy

tinnylad
28-02-2013, 08:39 PM
I have attended both venues andy. I'm not questioning the effort, just think pulling the plug 2 months into this venture with two big events confirmed on the horizon which could have made the club isn't giving it a fair chance. If he's had enough, fair enough. Im part of a team trying to grow a small club, things don't happen over night. I was looking forward to the regional round.

Gavin Collingwood
06-03-2013, 11:59 PM
Well it's no more now so we don't have to argue. I think it would've been poorly attended anyway as a lot of people I talked to said it was very sandy and they had to replace loads of bearings after, so I for one don't mind it's off the regional calendar again.

Chris Elworthy
08-03-2013, 08:45 AM
I didn't attend LDA simply as I did not like the attitude of the posts I read from the organisers of the club. There was very much a "why aren't you coming" and you are stupid that you're not vibe that put me off alltogether.
We all appriciate Mark has put in a lot of money and effort but you cannot magically generate a loyal core following so quickly, especially when you set up the original Croston club 10 miles from the North West's busiest off road club and choose to run on the same weekends. People had every right to ask what tyres work and if that question was asked on any other section on this forum you would receive a clear answer not a manipulative attempt to get more racers to club meets. Aside from this LDA took on the resposibility of confirming a regional round when far from secure as a club and now we find ourselves let down as you've bitten off more than you can chew too soon.

I'm sure that given time LDA could have been a great club but that's what you need, time. The impression was that the club expected too much too soon where the core has to build slowly over a number of years.
I have been involved with 5 different clubs over the years two of which were tried to be run as a money making venture and guess what? It didn't work and the people involved went missing leaving the club with the debts.

From what I've read the business model of Croston/LDA was doomed to faliure from day 1.

Chris

gazhillAE
08-03-2013, 10:30 AM
I personally think this should be blocked now mods!
A, because I'm sick of reading it
B, because its dragging a good guys name through the mud!
C, people on here really need to get a life and stop sitting behind a computer screen talking utter shit and worrying about things that are out of there control.

Peace

MikePimlott
08-03-2013, 11:42 AM
I personally think this should be blocked now mods!
A, because I'm sick of reading it
B, because its dragging a good guys name through the mud!
C, people on here really need to get a life and stop sitting behind a computer screen talking utter shit and worrying about things that are out of there control.

Peace

Bloody hell Gaz! It only took 1178 posts for you to then put a sensible one :woot:

TonyM
08-03-2013, 01:07 PM
C, people on here really need to get a life and stop sitting behind a computer screen talking utter shit and worrying about things that are out of there control.

Peace
I guess your PC must have got a life of its own then. My PC requires a person to be sat behind the screen for it to make a post.:)

gazhillAE
09-03-2013, 10:15 AM
Very good both of you :lol:

andy110m
09-03-2013, 11:08 AM
@ Chris, LDA is 26.5 miles from Southport which I assume is the road club your talking about.

LDA was closer to another Northwest club who cater, very well, for the fun market but its in no way a competitive off road club.

And if people aren't coming what do you do? I thought asking why seemed to be a good idea but as Gaz says all this is completely irrelevant now. Mark tried to offer an off road experience completely different to anything else in the Northwest to the racers. It seems they didn't want it so he closed it.

No point hanging on to host the regional when all the comments are negative.

TonyM
09-03-2013, 01:22 PM
@ Chris, LDA is 26.5 miles from Southport which I assume is the road club your talking about.

LDA was closer to another Northwest club who cater, very well, for the fun market but its in no way a competitive off road club.

And if people aren't coming what do you do? I thought asking why seemed to be a good idea but as Gaz says all this is completely irrelevant now. Mark tried to offer an off road experience completely different to anything else in the Northwest to the racers. It seems they didn't want it so he closed it.

No point hanging on to host the regional when all the comments are negative.
Chris was referring to Croston, which is 10 miles and not LDA. I also think your comment re Ribble Valley is doing them a great disfavour – they are particularly good in encouraging youngsters into our sport, a number of which will be in the F2 zone this season – hardly street bashers. They race Friday’s and I guess are about 12 miles from LDA, so a serious competitor.

Anyway, taking your last comment, I represented Southport at the regional meeting where letting LDA host a regional was voted on.

It was a split vote. I voted for allowing them, whereas others voted against saying that Mark is just in it for the money and that any time if he felt that the fees were not attractive enough he would just drop the regional. I argued that he is in it for the long-haul and should be given the opportunity. How wrong I was, and I feel embarrassed that the reps from other clubs had a clearer grasp on the situation. What they foretold came to fruition – sorry guys.

andy110m
09-03-2013, 02:25 PM
Tony, I said no such thing about Ribble, in fact I said they cater very well for the fun market. They are a great club for encouraging the new blood, I've no issue with that. LDA and Ribble are, or were, aimed at different people.

Again its not an issue now but thank you for the support in the meeting, Mark wanted to try to recover some of his costs over time, sure, but the main driver was to give something back and run a club as he thought best, IE by a racer for racers.

Dropping the Regional, and the GP to that end, wasn't an easy decision but with such poor numbers and the discouraging comments, most people posting they weren't going to attend, he felt he couldn't keep paying to support something that seemed doomed to never come good.

TonyM
09-03-2013, 02:57 PM
'no way a competitive off road club'. Sorry I missread that as meaning street-bashers. Perhaps I shouldn't take things too literal.

I've only seen a very small number of posts from people saying they wouldn't go. I know most of us were looking forward to the challenge and anyway I'm sure Mark has broader shoulders than to worry about the odd negative comment.

ahhseeten
21-03-2013, 02:59 PM
Audiatur et altera pars.

Most of what has been said in this section seems reasonable. I'm sure not everyone agrees with all of it but we are entitled to our opinion. What tyres work? , is the surface too loose? etc are reasonable questions though I'm not quite sure how we've reached the fifth page of talk about tyres for a very low attendance club. It is disappointing to read the negative comments but they mostly came from people who had never been and the silly comments about horse sh1t etc are ridiculous and the views of those post makers can be Ignored but nevertheless they were unhelpful to a struggling club.

However, I do feel it is a little unsatisfactory when posts appear about the personal character of club runner(s). I think these comments are inconsistent with the truth and unjustified.

I worked hard to try to set up an evening club that I thought established racers would enjoy. I invested a lot of time and money into both Croston and LDA firstly because I have always wanted to host a club that built tracks I like and secondly because I wanted somewhere to race myself that offered the outdoor feel before you go to race on the Sunday somewhere else. I invested thousands of pounds into this venture plus a lot of lost earnings so to me it represented a large investment. I never expected to make any sort of profit but hoped it would be busy enough for me to at least get back even eventually and then perhaps invest any additional funds back in.

In it for the long haul? Does persistently hosting loss making meetings at two separate venues over nearly a year not count as a huge effort to make a club succeed in the long term? Nobody wanted to make a success of either venue more than I but to do that racers needed to attend! It was only after nearly a full season of trying that the practical issues of hiring a venue for a handful of racers became unsustainable. It finally became apparent that instead of a wealth of enthusiasm for a new club there was lethargy. It simply is the case that LDA was a club that, like many other clubs around the country, suffered for whatever reason from low turnouts and eventually went the same way as many have before.

My good spirited aspiration to host a regional was sincere as I hoped like many of you have agreed that it would be a spectacular event with a great track. I also hoped that with LDA being on the regional calendar it might inspire a rush of interested racers to trial the club and see for themselves if they agreed with me that it was indeed a great venue - It didn't.

In my view LDA was worth a try but ultimately just not sustainable. So - to quote Augustus, 'acta est fabula'.