Lazer FS conversion (LAW38)

[Scouser]

Sorry if this has been posted before! It appears as though the FS conversion kit is available through pro-s futaba. The Kyosho part number is LAW38. Anyone going to be giving it a go? I will get a link to it in a mo'.

Link :- http://www.pro-s-futaba.co.jp/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8871

[Ted Maul]

Linky to kyosho website: http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/np0806.html

Says its for SP but can convert RTR too so I assume it will work for a std ZX5 too. Not much detail though. Some posts on rctech.net aswell but again, not much detail.

I'm not going to be racing properly for a good year or two, at least until the kids can join in anyway so i won't buy it, but it does look interesting. Not sure if it needs/gets a new shell or not as piccies are quite small and I can't translate Japanese!

[mes]

I won't give it a try, I am happy with my LiPo-powered SP for now, a possible replacement would be a -again- LiPo Cat SX... In case LiPo will be legal in Germany next year for official races, I might race in the Stock class with a 13.5 T BL motor, probably with the new Hot Bodies 2WD...
To put it short: no saddle packs for me anymore! (except in a S500 or BMax4 maybe :p)

[Jez]

i will be giving fs a go.totally smitten with sp.suits me just fine.dont do anything with it from 1 week to next{not even clean it}and it just begs to be driven hard.love it.i admit its not for everyone,but for the price and spec its a good buy.theres better cars out there,but theres worse as well.better ask vinny what he thinks-he seems to be the 4wd expert.many thanks jez.

[Scouser]

That is good news mate, you can be the tester! I will be doing the SP thing soon as possible and then going from there. I am sort of thinking that the current layout will be better for Li-pos, the balance seems pretty much spot on when running the Core 5000 pack. Whatever though, the FS does look a bit tasty, cant wait to see one in the flesh. :thumbsup:

[mes]

The SP is a nice car, especially for LiPo batteries. Just soften the shocks up a bit, there you go! I jumps level, and is quite easy to drive. Only a few weeks ago, I switched from a 27 turn motor to 9.5 brushless, and after four days of driving , I feel the "need for speed".

[Dufty07]

How much is 16,000 yen in pounds than, I will be gettin as soon as my wallet, and bank account can agree!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[jayst]

Live rates at 2008.07.15 18:05:13 UTC 16,000.00 JPY=76.1671 GBP

[Neil Skull]

Sorry to say but this conversion will not be cheap.

Dont know full contents yet but it wil be a major upgrade package. Kyosho are slow to give info on this conversion.

We are guessing over half price of a new kit.

Still i guess it is cheaper than buying a new car.

[Neil Skull]

Still to find out what is in the conversion but Retail will be approx £135

[Scouser]

Any idea on what the European release date will be?

[Neil Skull]

No sorry,

Info was given out very early on the website.

[Scouser]

$135 on Speedtech-rc.
http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebproductdetail.asp?catmainid=688&id=7712 Only a pre-order at the moment but expected on July 29th :thumbsup:.

[jaxx]

having looked at the piccies of the upgrade, Would it not be better too have the kmc conversion where you get CF for the same money?

[Scouser]

It has been said that the handling of the KMC chassis isn't the best. I think the fact that Kyosho went to the expense of having moulds made to make the chassis in composite, shows the faith they have in its ability. Carbon chassis cars may be a little stiffer but that doesn't necessarily mean better. (see X-Factory, Losi, Aero, TTech) I am a little biased though as I have no real love for carbon chassis'!! :D.

[Neil Skull]

There here

[Jez]

It has been said that the handling of the KMC chassis isn't the best. I think the fact that Kyosho went to the expense of having moulds made to make the chassis in composite, shows the faith they have in its ability. Carbon chassis cars may be a little stiffer but that doesn't necessarily mean better. (see X-Factory, Losi, Aero, TTech) I am a little biased though as I have no real love for carbon chassis'!! :D.
youre not wrong there my friend.should have fs conversion here for thursday,might fit it ready for nw regional and show them a finalists a proper rc car.

[dave p hall]

youre not wrong there my friend.should have fs conversion here for thursday,might fit it ready for nw regional and show them a finalists a proper rc car.

you been on them 99%lemonade shandy's again lol:

[Dufty07]

Let me know how it goes, I have the standard, and the KMC, so am very interested indeed to see how it lines up.........................:thumbsup:

[Jez]

wont be ready for at least a month yet,coming down your neck o woods{yarmouth}next saturday for hols.waiting for scouser to join the revolution.come on mate do the right thing,dig deep and splash the cash my friend-you know it makes sense.thanks jez.:thumbsup:

[Darren Boyle]

Exactly where are they Neil? Cos they aint here mate.............. non sunny Watford that is!

[Scouser]

waiting for scouser to join the revolution.come on mate do the right thing,dig deep and splash the cash my friend-you know it makes sense.thanks jez.:thumbsup:
Soon dude, soon. I still have a ton of spares for the stock ZX-5 but I am sure the indoor season will take care of them! Don't forget, I am out of work now so I have to be more careful with the money!!:lol:

[Jez]

what you no money?built fs while on hols,hopefully run at batley tomorrow.nice bit of kit.will report back later.thanks jez.

[Dufty07]

Come on, get your camera out, lets see her NAKED!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

[Scouser]

Yeah come on Jezzer, where's the piccies? Need to see you soon aswell dude.;)

[Jez]

if you tell me how to transfer pics from moby then no problem.not quite finished yet,waiting for kingpins and axle spacers.bit dissapointed you cant use original zx5 shell seeing as fs is about 2/3 inch longer than standard.just being picky i presume.dont know when i will run it,local track's been turned in to a lake.will give input as and when available.many thanks,jez.

[dave p hall]

if you tell me how to transfer pics from moby then no problem.not quite finished yet,waiting for kingpins and axle spacers.bit dissapointed you cant use original zx5 shell seeing as fs is about 2/3 inch longer than standard.just being picky i presume.dont know when i will run it,local track's been turned in to a lake.will give input as and when available.many thanks,jez.

york club night's be the place for your new toy:fs versus sp(me and col):thumbsup:

[Dufty07]

2 - 3 inches longer!!!! aaaaahhhhhhh yeah baby , that should sail over bumps now, I cant wait to see it (PLEASE):drool::drool::drool::woot:

[Jez]

2 - 3 inches longer!!!! aaaaahhhhhhh yeah baby , that should sail over bumps now, I cant wait to see it (PLEASE):drool::drool::drool::woot:two thirds of an inch!
2 to 3 inch and id have to handbrake it round corners.:p

[Ruffe]

hey is there a pdf instruction manual or somthing on the net???


cheerrrsssss

[budgio]

Anyone got any pics showing the full content of this kit?

[caneye]

lots of topless :woot: FS pics from the petitrc website:

http://www.petitrc.com/_forumphp//showthread.php?t=37234

[vinny20]

I have just one question why is the zx5 fs cheap i looked on dms its £135 thats a good price

[johnboy]

vinny its not a full kit just a conversion kit

[caneye]

yup .. that's just a FS conversion kit.
i think the full complete kit will not be out till a few mths later. guess this was the same situation with the SP?

[mes]

Has anybody got a list of contents or even a picture yet?

[mes]

up to top...

are the new turnbuckles and a rear wing included?

[Matthijs]

looks like a wing for sure, and some new turnbuckles, no details yet. Kyosho germany has it listed:
http://www.kyosho.de/?page=shop/flypage&category_id=1633fad253b15fa7e6383ab6407ea0cf&product_id=19081&lang=deu

also kyosho.com: http://www.kyosho.com/eng/products/rc/detail.html?product_id=104163

[mes]

Sorry, but the thread and my questions are about the conversion, not the complete kit.
Although I did not want to get the FS conversion originally, I might change my mind on the subject. But if no rear wing and quality turnbuckles are included (the two main issues on my SP), the conversion is not financially interesting as it is approx. €180.- alone in Germany...I only spent €270.- including shipping for the complete SP kit from the UK!

[bondy]

Feels pretty good ! You get a lot of things in the kit ! but luckily all my 3 racing alloy fits ! Cant call it a full FS as its still got zx5 suspension arms and hubs ! Transmission is very free ! you get new diff gears and pinions but as the rtr has only been run once them diffs went in ! Looks like there is a load of space for everything until you put in a speed passion brushless ! speedo so recever had to go on top !

Hiopefully giving a run tommorow night !

Only snag I Had was when you use the 2mm insert on the rear suspension mounts to give it some kick up as per instructions then the new bottom gear box touches the rear/"front" mount and will not let the diff casing sit flush in the chassis mouldings. as I was using alloy mounts I ground the recess little more until it was snug !


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs2.jpg


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs3.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs1.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs11.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs5.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs9.jpg

[woOdy]

Feels pretty good ! You get a lot of things in the kit ! but luckily all my 3 racing alloy fits ! Cant call it a full FS as its still got zx5 suspension arms and hubs ! Transmission is very free ! you get new diff gears and pinions but as the rtr has only been run once them diffs went in ! Looks like there is a load of space for everything until you put in a speed passion brushless ! speedo so recever had to go on top !

Hiopefully giving a run tommorow night !

Only snag I Had was when you use the 2mm insert on the rear suspension mounts to give it some kick up as per instructions then the new bottom gear box touches the rear/"front" mount and will not let the diff casing sit flush in the chassis mouldings. as I was using alloy mounts I ground the recess little more until it was snug !


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs2.jpg


http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs3.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs1.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs11.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs5.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/fs9.jpg

Please for the love of GOD trim that wing down or u will just understeer off the end of the straight!!!

[Jez]

a bit like yors last month????????????????

[streetfreak]

I just Read That Tekin is going to be distrbuting the Predator X11 or a Similiar version of it in the States has anyone else heard this or have info info??I'e been looking to buy a 4wd prob a B44 but now it may be on hold if this news is true.

[Karl Marsden]

Please for the love of GOD trim that wing down or u will just understeer off the end of the straight!!!


LOL-Guys, just to say the full kits are not so far away, before Xmas fingers crossed so in time for the next Worksop round.

With Tebo now on Board, I think the progress for 2WD & 4WD will get stronger and stronger in 2009! Watch this space.....

Cheers

Karl

[Neil Skull]

Love the car Steve,
you are less mad than i suspected.
Let us know how she handles :)

How does the wing size affect understeer?

[bondy]

from the two runs I had you can feel the extra length ! But we use the touring car track and just divert off to the side for a few jumps ! Track had many hairpins. Then I landed with the power on off the jump and took a few teeth off the rear diff ! It was very cold so I came home ! ;)

1 .. How tight does everyone shim the diffs ?
2.. how tight do you run the diffs ?
3.. how tight do you run the slipper clutch ?

Handling felt good although I still have some shockers to sort out ! :thumbsup:

[Col]

How does the wing size affect understeer?

Exactly the same as with traditional cars - If the wing has high downforce at the rear, it causes the front to lift slightly (or at least give that impression) giving less steering.

[bondy]

Just nipped into van at dinner and checked the FS out ! Some muppet forgot a spacer in the diff cup which let the little drive shaft move so far in it came out the front cup efectivley turning the car into 2 wheel drive ! Therfore the rear diff went !

Just goes to show you should always carfully "R.T.F.M"

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/rtfm.jpg

[Fabs]

the muppet being you i presume then... serves you well for getting a RTR he he... That part you pointed out is a white plastic cover that is included in the diff assembly bag, comes with the diff nut retainer. That's right i'm building my own FS :thumbsup:

[bretts]

From looking at photos it will be fun with lipo saddles in there too!

If you did tho' I wonder what it would be like with all the weight at the front? bring out the lead!

[bondy]

the muppet being you i presume then... serves you well for getting a RTR he he... That part you pointed out is a white plastic cover that is included in the diff assembly bag, comes with the diff nut retainer. That's right i'm building my own FS :thumbsup:


Yes the muppet was me ! I thought that would have been evident in the tone of the message ! DOH !!!!! It worn some of the tiny little drive shaft but it should be ok ! I have also put some spare diff ring savers on the center shaft outputs for added strength !

[Neil Skull]

Well Steve you know im a fan of yours but.

If you did not use that little piece the nut spins and you could never have locked the diff up.
I take it you never tested it after you built it!!!!

as some one said you is a muppet.

still as you only a begginer to 4wd as you got a RTR i suppose we can cut you a little slack :)

[bondy]

Err this is the spur layshaft ! not a diff ! :o

there is a big nut to adjust the diff but its on the other end ! and its a 7mm one

The white spacer is put in to stop the litle drive shaft touching the screw end of the layshaft !

after 22 years I hope I aint classed as a beginer

Tamiya Falcon
Optima Mid
Optima Mid custom
Lazer ZX
Lazer ZXR
Lazer ZXRR
Kyosho Pro-X
Kyosho Triumph
Schumacher Cat XLS
Schumacher PRO Cat
Schumacher Couger
Schumacher Couger 2
Schumacher Couger 2000
Schumacher Mission/axis/axis 2/ mission 2 /R12
Numerous Tamiya's
PB Maxima
Nanda Swift
Nanda Raptor
Losi Jrx Pro
Losi XX
Losi XXCR
Losi XXX
Losi XXXCR
Losi XX4
Losi 8T
Mardave Metor
Mardave Mini
Kyosho STRR
Kyosho MP9
Kyosho RB5
Kyosho Lazer ZX5/RTR/FS --------


To name a few !!!

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk145/bigbadbond/layshaft.jpg

[RSharpy]

Bondy to be fair that little white bit doesn't do an awful lot, as long as the nuts tight!!

As they would say on the football terrace.... after 22 years!!.... YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!!!! :p:p:p

[bondy]

Bondy to be fair that little white bit doesn't do an awful lot, as long as the nuts tight!!

As they would say on the football terrace.... after 22 years!!.... YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING!!!! :p:p:p



FOR THE SECOND TIME ! LOOK AT THE DRAWING !!! THERES NO ******* NUT THERE ITS A HEAD WITH A SLOT IN IT SO YOU CAN HOLD IT TIGHT WITH A ALLEN WRENCH WHILE YOU ATTATCH EVERYTHING AND TIGHTEN UP THE NUT ON THE OPOSITE SIDE. THE HEAD WHEN THE SLIPPER IS SLIPPING ACTUALL TURNS INSIDE THE CUP THATS WHY YOU PUT GREASE ON THE SHAFT ! THE LITTLE WHITE SPCER JUST KEEPS THE SMALL CENTER SHAFT FROM TOUCHING THIS WHEN IT ROTATES HENCE "ITS WORN A LITTLE " :mad:

OR you could just be taking this piss , so I will sort you out on sunday matey !!!! :thumbsup:

[Neil Skull]

Hi Steve,

thats an impressive list of cars.

I have to apologise as i use the same white piece on my cars diff.

But at least it shows that even the most expeienced builder can make a mistake.
I have made some howlers
I want to see you take the rtr and win some A finals.

[Robfo]

A finals! Lol He can sit with it and watch some if he want's.
Bond was that a list of all the cars you've built wrong?:woot:

[bondy]

Im not posting any more ! Wheres that DUMMY ! :drool:

[RSharpy]

lol, was the latter Bondy, going to leave the RB5 at home and the challange is now set-

ZX5 RTR/SP?/FS Bling thing Vs The CAT SX :thumbsup:

Will bring you a box of tissues and will order you a blue alloy dummy from Hong Kong :lol: :p:p:p

[Spoolio]

...will order you a blue alloy dummy from Hong Kong :lol: :p:p:p

Don't get a Yeah Racing one, they bend real easy when you chuck 'em out of the pram :lol:.

[Alex H]

Hopefully Kyosho will manufacture a chassis that will fit lipos in there as well since its all legal now.

[bondy]

lol, was the latter Bondy, going to leave the RB5 at home and the challange is now set-

ZX5 RTR/SP?/FS Bling thing Vs The CAT SX :thumbsup:

Will bring you a box of tissues and will order you a blue alloy dummy from Hong Kong :lol: :p:p:p


Which one won ????? Are yes I remember ! The LAZER !!!!!! :lol:

Meow ! Cat with no claws !! HE HE HE :p

[mes]

Has anyome tried LiPo batteries in the FS? Trakpower, LRP or something else?

[caneye]

i believe the SMC saddle packs will fit... ditto the TP3200.

the TP4800s are too tall.

petitrc has some pics of the SMC saddle packs in the FS:

http://www.petitrc.com/_forumphp//showthread.php?p=309714#post309714

[fastinfastout]

RTR conversion.......am I right that I heard this is not a full FS conversion?

Also, does the conversion have different length arms, and steel universals?

What parts do I need to bring my RTR into a FS kit state?

[bondy]

RTR conversion.......am I right that I heard this is not a full FS conversion?

Also, does the conversion have different length arms, and steel universals?

What parts do I need to bring my RTR into a FS kit state?

If you want full fs spec startight away best just buy the fs !

I just did it cos it was a bit of fun so I got the RTR ! The RTR is cracking straight out the box and for a beginer if you keep it stock should be great ... but im not----so I got some upgrades then got the fs kit and it turns out to be quite good. From RTR to full FS spec would mean SP whisbones and rear hubs + knuckles + steel outdrives + driveshafts + SP Shocks + FS Conversion. So as you can tell it would be better just to get the FS. Think I will anyway when its out ! Its a cracking car so easy to drive.


The FS Conversion will fit work though !

[woOdy]

If you want full fs spec startight away best just buy the fs !

I just did it cos it was a bit of fun so I got the RTR ! The RTR is cracking straight out the box and for a beginer if you keep it stock should be great ... but im not----so I got some upgrades then got the fs kit and it turns out to be quite good. From RTR to full FS spec would mean SP whisbones and rear hubs + knuckles + steel outdrives + driveshafts + SP Shocks + FS Conversion. So as you can tell it would be better just to get the FS. Think I will anyway when its out ! Its a cracking car so easy to drive.


The FS Conversion will fit work though !

How did it go on Sunday mate?

[bondy]

How did it go on Sunday mate?


Car went ok The person on the sticks didnt ! Im still at home at the moment ! I had a throat infection and have trapped so ce-atick nerve or something in my back which caused my left leg to go very painful. You could say my mind was not up to the job ! Had a good run in the last roundthough but ended up in the D Final. I killed it on the 4th lap probably due to frustation and pain !

The car jumps well and is very stable. Struggled a bit on some of the tight corners but I belive a one way diff will help sort that out ! Track was too flat for the stability and handling to give us an advantage as a touring car would have made it round quicker ! Cant remember his name but apart from Fabien someone else was running one and was doing OK and we got a few tips off him " both me and FAB had put the front/rear hanger on upside down " tut

It needs a bit more tweeking and if they do a propoer off-road course it should be great ! cant wait to try it outside " domination :p"

[woOdy]

Have been testing with the FS for a few days now and and after outting in a 1 way diff this car is amazing!! I have got the kit settings on it and it is turning when u want it too. The standard setting is a bit too soft for me as its picking up a front wheel but this is nothing. I have a good feeling now about this car. Just need to race it now and see how far away we are(if any).

[RogerM]

Glad to see your enjoying the car Woody.


I have a question though .................... by the looks of the manual I have downloaded there is no option for a centre one-way (not enough space). Can you please confirm that for me?

I've never really been happy with one-way diffs or full-time 4wd ..... I was tempted to try one before this potential bomb-shell struck.

[woOdy]

Glad to see your enjoying the car Woody.


I have a question though .................... by the looks of the manual I have downloaded there is no option for a centre one-way (not enough space). Can you please confirm that for me?

I've never really been happy with one-way diffs or full-time 4wd ..... I was tempted to try one before this potential bomb-shell struck.

Trust me mate, this car now with the 1 way in it is just as good as anyother I have driven if not better. With the 1 way in it, it doesnt feel as bad as other cars with 1 ways in. U must try it mate.

[bondy]

Even though I dont drive for Kyosho now ?

I agree ! Mine was super quick on sunday at broxtowe. A little skill involved aswell though ! And if it wasnt for the silly mistakes each run it would surely have been tq ! :D

I even made the triple a few times in the final after getting a bit peeved at being punted off the track 10 times in a lap !

[RogerM]

Woody ... lend me yours for a trial .... lol

I have never really been happy with a one-way diff in any car, including the ZX5-SP.

I have run them on cars where there has been no choice but or perm' 4wd but never really been 100% happy.
Even the Mako came alive when I fabricated a shaft one-way for it ..... and I designed that car around the Yokomo SD one-way from the outset......
It's just the way I drive, probably too agressively, that makes it a little unsuitable.

Will think things through tonight, make a decission in the morning but I am currently thinking on modding the SP for 09 (slightly longer chassis .... more forward weight bias etc.) as I planned for 08 but never got around too.

Thanks for the feed back though.

[Fabs]

Have to agree with Woody there, I didn't like the FS much with the front diff, but the one way made it a lot better. It doesn't bother me much as I ran the 501 with a front one way anyway.

The only issue i'm having now with the car is, I feel, a little lack of traction on low grip, really struggling to put the power down. However on carpet at the Petit it was absolutely fantastic :p

[woOdy]

Woody ... lend me yours for a trial .... lol

I have never really been happy with a one-way diff in any car, including the ZX5-SP.

I have run them on cars where there has been no choice but or perm' 4wd but never really been 100% happy.
Even the Mako came alive when I fabricated a shaft one-way for it ..... and I designed that car around the Yokomo SD one-way from the outset......
It's just the way I drive, probably too agressively, that makes it a little unsuitable.

Will think things through tonight, make a decission in the morning but I am currently thinking on modding the SP for 09 (slightly longer chassis .... more forward weight bias etc.) as I planned for 08 but never got around too.

Thanks for the feed back though.

When ever you r up in/near Manchester then you can gladly have a day with it mate.

[RogerM]

Ok, looks like the decission has been made ......

FS has been rejected, for now at least, purely for the one-way issue. Shame, would have been nice to be running a 4wd car with some set-up support for the first time this millenium!

[RogerM]

Thanks for the offer Stu, will defo take you up on that!

[Neil Skull]

Hi guys,

just bear in mind the one way is probably the optimum set up for twisty track with high grip.
The one way can be a handful on some conditions but fantastic on others.

Also this is a pure front one way not a centre one way.

[RogerM]

Hi guys,

just bear in mind the one way is probably the optimum set up for twisty track with high grip.
The one way can be a handful on some conditions but fantastic on others.

Also this is a pure front one way not a centre one way.


Exactly why I don't like them!!!!!

Always found a centre one-way is a better bet for all-round use.

Shame, was looking forward to giving the FS a go.

[woOdy]

Hi guys,

just bear in mind the one way is probably the optimum set up for twisty track with high grip.
The one way can be a handful on some conditions but fantastic on others.

Also this is a pure front one way not a centre one way.

I totally agree Neil, but in this car its not as harsh as others. It feels perfect. I know I sound bias but true.

[Neil Skull]

Hi Stu,

Thats good to hear, but how many tracks have you tried it on?
My guess is when you go out doors on dirt you would use a diff or spool?

[RogerM]

Most people run a one way everywhere Neil.

Don't think the centre one-way has been out of my ZX5-SP since I put it in on building the car in 07!

Never seen anybody run a spool in the front in off-road, not sure it would be great over the rough stuff.

Actually to show how robust the ZX5 transmission is the car has run since October 07 when I built it without EVER having to change a diff gear, pinion gear or reshim. I'm quite hard on transmissions and have been using 5.5 and 6.5 brushless the whole time on everything from slick food floors to super grippy carpet.

A bit of an aside I know but praise where praise is due!!!!!

[Neil Skull]

Hi Roger,

I keep forgetting we talking offroad, but i am sure we tried spools years ago and they worked.
still i think the praise due is to you for building your diff properly.

I am trying to find out if a centre one way is possible, what one do you use on your SP?

[Col]

Never even heard of a spool in off road! Rog is right though, everyone I know with the zx5 runs centre one way. Mine's been in for 3 years now...

[RogerM]

I use the genuine Kyosho bits as per the manual ....

I have been thinking about ways of taming a one-way diff and have a few ideas .... watch this space!!! If I can get that to work then I'll give the FS a go.

As for building the diff properly I have to say the Kyosho diffs are brilliant straight out of the box other than the main diff balls in the kit.
Both ends of my ZX5-SP and my 2 RB5s have all Kyosho diff parts other than Atomic Carbon thrust race balls. Stock diff & thrust plates, Kyosho ceramic diff balls and stock unmodified hardware.

The trick to building the Kyosho diffs is simple .... good grease and don't tighten them up too much from the start!!!!

I normally try to set the diff to just slip when the out drives are held on an old pair of scissors and turn between finger and thumb.

Make sure you shim the diff so there is very slight backlash between pinion and crown wheel when you try to twist the crown wheel away from the pinion. This may feel a little "notchy" when brand new on the bench but trust me, when running the pinion and crown wheel mesh will try to part in a similar way as the teeth climb up each other under load .... if it's loose when new it will quickly wear! They soon bed in and feel great, should take no more than 2 runs to be quiet and smooth, if so then maybe you have them mesh too tight!


Run the car for a few seconds off the ground with one wheel held to settle the parts.
Run the car for about 2 minutes being gentle with the throttle then adjust to the final setting (hold one wheel and spur, adjust until you need proper effort to get the diff to slip when turning the other wheel between index finger and thumb.

There you go, the perfect sliky smooth free spinning diff that never seems to need further adjustment.
If you put a little grease on the diff case joints prior to final assembly there is no way to get dirt in and thus everything lasts forever! Probably need to clean and re-grease the diffs no more than every sixth meeting (about twice a year as the 4wd car only gets used for regionals and nationals ...... the RB5 being so brilliant to drive I always want to run that at any other meeting)!

I'd have to say the only thing to compare with the quality of the Kyosho shocks is their diffs!! Both the best I have come across in over 2 decades of RC racing!

A little off topic but hey .... might be useful for somebody building an FS as a first K' car!

[RogerM]

Have been testing with the FS for a few days now and and after outting in a 1 way diff this car is amazing!! I have got the kit settings on it and it is turning when u want it too. The standard setting is a bit too soft for me as its picking up a front wheel but this is nothing. I have a good feeling now about this car. Just need to race it now and see how far away we are(if any).

Any further info Stu?

Even though I am a bit concerned about the one-way issue I have aquired a conversion set and will be building it up from my spare ZX5-SP (bought for spares but as nothing much breaks never opened) over the next few days.

I was wondering if you were running the full kit set-up on the car, including front and rear anti-roll bars?

I intend to build the car up on kit settings to compare with my season old (= season of development) ZX5-SP but my guess is that it will end up on much stiffer springing very early based on your comments!

As all my rear springs are the original (longer) type I have ordered a set of silvers in the new shorter length but other than that I'm a bit stuck for rear springs (although now with the shorter shock bodies on the rear Losi springs should be a reasonable fit and at least will allow me to determine what sort of rates are required!!)

[pikeyace]

Lazer ZX5 FS conversion kit
Product Code: KYLAW38
http://www.dms-racing.com/images/kylaw38.jpg


Full conversion for the front motored and side saddle chassis layout for the ZX5

Add to Basket (http://www.romancart.com/cart.asp?itemname=Lazer%20ZX5%20FS%20conversion%20 kit&itemname2=KYLAW38&storeid=23068&quantity=1&price=134.95&returnurl=http://www.dms-racing.com/SQL/search.asp) Price: £134.95 Dms-Racing.com

[woOdy]

After last weekend and being 2 seconds down from the leaders I was very upset! What ever I did last week it just wouldnt keep up.
Going into today I was very doubtful. Has a set of eyes outside the box from a very good friend and he had a bit of a fiddle before racing and WOW. Car felt very good. I wasnt on form today so I am very sorry but looking at lap times it was just as quick as Mossy with the Cat. Made alot of mistakes today so that let the car down. Really strange going from last week to this but we will have to see what happens next.

[Fabs]

After last weekend and being 2 seconds down from the leaders I was very upset! What ever I did last week it just wouldnt keep up.
Going into today I was very doubtful. Has a set of eyes outside the box from a very good friend and he had a bit of a fiddle before racing and WOW. Car felt very good. I wasnt on form today so I am very sorry but looking at lap times it was just as quick as Mossy with the Cat. Made alot of mistakes today so that let the car down. Really strange going from last week to this but we will have to see what happens next.

Well I wasn't as far off the pace as you to start with, but it is interesting to see that every setup change I made made my setup closer to yours, and that was before I even went to see what you had. I dropped a second a lap with the first big change and got it closer and closer every round after that. Have to say for me the car felt quite good by the end of the day, but I'm sure there's more to come.

[Fabs]

I feel the biggest difference was made when i decided to cut a lot of the gurney on the rear wing and to add spacers on the turnbuckle links of the front hubs. Gonna try a completely cut off wing like Stu has been running next week end.

[RogerM]

Woody, Fabs ...... can you please let me know what set-up you guys ended up with.

Hopefully will have mine out at Coventry this coming weekend (if I can find the time to build it!!!)

[njc11]

After last weekend and being 2 seconds down from the leaders I was very upset! What ever I did last week it just wouldnt keep up.
Going into today I was very doubtful. Has a set of eyes outside the box from a very good friend and he had a bit of a fiddle before racing and WOW. Car felt very good. I wasnt on form today so I am very sorry but looking at lap times it was just as quick as Mossy with the Cat. Made alot of mistakes today so that let the car down. Really strange going from last week to this but we will have to see what happens next.

Have to say mate, both yours and Fabs FS looked awesome.. i'll have to get mine going! :thumbsup:

[Fabs]

There's still some work needed IMHO, but the car's definately showed its potential yesterday, like it did at the Petit RC Race (only to have been let down by the driver).

[RogerM]

I have been working out what is different between the SP and FS, in addition to the LAW38 conversion pack and there are a couple of points if you want to build a TRUE FS.

1) rear wishbone inner hinge pin mounts LA271 are specific to FS (not sure the difference so if anybody can tell me great! I can not get these parts in the UK at the moment)

2) rear hubs are the UM519 parts from the RB5 worlds rear end, standardisation at last... :)

3) the rear universal swingshafts are the 62.5mm ones from the original RB5 (UM510).

Apart from that there are a couple of minor changes (mainly including option parts like the steel pivot balls in the kit) but nothing that will effect the on track performance.
Hope this info is useful to somebody and that somebody can tell me the difference between the LA271 and normal hinge pin mounts, if I find out first I'll let you all know!

[RogerM]

Right, just found the info .....

The new mounts are 2mm wider between hinge pin centres, this keeps the same toe / antisquat obviously but does increase the width of the car by 1mm per side.

The longer driveshafts are used to make sure that the dogbone doesn't come out of the diff on full droop.

The rear hubs have the hinge pin hole higher (was the top hole when the original hubs had all 3 in).

Right then what will this little lot do to the handling of the car?

Firstly the change to hub position will bring the wishbone outer hinge pin hight nearer the axle centre line. Combine this with the 3mm drop in height of the diffs on the FS verses previous ZX5 models and it means that your driveshaft and wishbone are much nearer parrallel at all points in the normal range of suspension travel, this will result in less plunge for the inner end of the driveshaft (more so when you consider the extra 1mm of engagement), freeing the rear end up under motion .... should result in more consistent grip as the car rolls around in the corners.

Also this will produce a more parrallel relationship between the top link and the wishbone compared to the SP rear end whos hub effectively used the middle of the 3 holes in the original hub.

The result of all this will be a car with much more, and more consistent, rear end side bite than the SP.

I am going to try and machine up some inner mounts to the correct spec in time for the weekend but I'd not hold out too much hope.

Will let you all know when I find out a little more.

[RogerM]

Woody / Fabs,

are you guys running cars built from genuine FS kits or converted SPs?

[kek23k]

I take it that means the LAW upgrade brackets will be obselete now?

[Fabs]

We're on converted cars as the kit has only been available recently.

[RogerM]

I take it that means the LAW upgrade brackets will be obselete now?

Would not have thought so as they are a great tuning aid and the moulded parts seem to come in one setup only.

I know some of the USA guys are running the LAW36/LAW37 brackets with the inserts reversed to give the same width increase as the LA271 mouldings but still have the ability to tune the geometry.

[Robboru]

Recieved my full FS kit last week , time / work permiting will have it built by the end of the week:thumbsup: Just in time for Worksop ?

[kek23k]

Would not have thought so as they are a great tuning aid and the moulded parts seem to come in one setup only.

I know some of the USA guys are running the LAW36/LAW37 brackets with the inserts reversed to give the same width increase as the LA271 mouldings but still have the ability to tune the geometry.


Ahh that explains why I could see them on Tebo's car and much better for the wallet too!

[Fabs]

Aah I run the brackets so you're saying that I should increase the rear track?

[RogerM]

Fabs, yes you should. I'm trying to find somewhere with them in stock to get them on my car for that exact reason .... Then I can run full FS spec as I have lots of RB5 bits floating around.

If I do get them I will post up what combination will give what geometry.

[woOdy]

Sorry for the delay but here we go:-
FRONT:- Kit Silver springs
40 wtg AE oil
3b pistons
4mm spacer to reduce droop
camber link- inside hole on the inner and inner on hub with 4mm washer on outer ball stud, 0mm on inner.
1 way diff.
hub washers standard.
shock positions- middle on tower and middle on wishbone.

REAR:- yellow springs
35 wtg AE oil
3b pistons
camber link- inner hole on the inner and inner on the hub. 2mm washer under inner ball sud and 0mm on outer.
short wheel base.
shock positions- middle on tower and inner on wishbone.

Cells Back.

No Dam on wing 7 degrees.

Just make sure you have the rear shocks infront of the rear tower as another FS driver put them to the rear. Cough cough Fab. lol

Ride height front 25mm and rear 24mm, both chassic not bumpers.

[warped]

is that an indoor carpet setup?

[RogerM]

I got to run the FS for the first time on Sunday at Coventry (bumpy astro) and I must say I am very impressed. The car got better with each change but I was making more mistakes as the day went on (the night before was my high school reunion)


FRONT:- Silver #70 springs
40 wt AE oil
2c pistons
camber link- outside hole on the inner and outer on hub with 3mm washer on outer ball stud, 0mm on inner.
diff (not 1-way, not tried that yet but since I'm trying to calm the front down I probably won't for a while)
hub washers standard.
shock positions- middle on tower and middle on wishbone
kit 1mm anti-roll bar

REAR:- blue #68 springs
35 wt AE oil
2b pistons
camber link- mid hole on the inner and outer on the hub. 2mm washer under inner ball sud and 0mm on outer.
long wheel base.
shock positions- middle on tower and inner on wishbone.
kit 1.2mm anti-roll bar

Cells forward.

No Dam on wing 7 degrees.


Ride height front shafts just under level and rear shafts level



This set-up was giving me more front end bite than you can imagine, the car was commented on as "twitchy" by a couple of people watching it earlier in the day but towards the end was a lot calmer!

I'll be starting from the same set-up at Kidderminster and will let you know what changes I make.

[woOdy]

is that an indoor carpet setup?

This is a indoor running track. Rubber sort of thing. Little bits of carpet and it is very grippy carpet.

[Fabs]

Just make sure you have the rear shocks infront of the rear tower as another FS driver put them to the rear. Cough cough Fab. lol

Is it too late to say I did it on purpose? :blush:

[RogerM]

Fab,

I'll be trying mine behind the tower for the next meeting too. For me it's where shocks should be and I've said that many times before.

This car is freaking awesome isn't it!!!!

[erkan]

How is the handling compared to the sp? I hope the steering and control is as good as the sp, it just outperform the b44 any day :wub

[RogerM]

How is the handling compared to the sp? I hope the steering and control is as good as the sp, it just outperform the b44 any day :wub

Everything you loved about the SP is still there ..... but with extra helpings!

I was REALLY suprised on it's first run with guestimate settings it was good enough to compete with anything else on the track and easily as quick as my SP with over a year of set-up development on it!

As the day went on it just got better and better with every tweek, try the set-up I posted above as a starting point.

This thing steers so well and is really good over the jumps. I let the car down by going racing on 3 hours sleep (night before was only 4 too) due to other comitments but it was clear that I was failing the car not the other way around.

Would love to see somebody who is at the top of the game drive this car, maybe Woody can put it in every A for us K' fans this year, certainly the speed is in the car!

[RogerM]

Just to let you all know I have just tried the original length rear springs on the car and to get anywhere near the ride height you'll be after you'll need Losi lower spring platforms.

I have used the thin plastic upper spring platforms (unused parts from the plastic shock parts mouldings) and AE clip on spacers and it works fine like that.

If anybody knows where I can get shorter length rear silver #70 springs please let me know.
#72s were a little too much and #68s did the job but maybe a bit too little.

[Fabs]

I'm quite surprised at that, since I'm pretty sure all my springs are of the long type and I haven't got an issue with ride height.

[RogerM]

Is it too late to say I did it on purpose? :blush:

Fabs, feel free to tell everybody that you did it on purpose, I think it was an inspired decission!

Here is my reasoning .......

I ran the SP all last year (from Oct 07 actually) and NEVER broke a rear shock tower even though I was using the alloy tower mounts. Since I've gone to the FS I've broken a rear tower at every track I've been to, at first I thought it was just Coventry's big double jump but I broke one at Kiddy too, and a few other places including an indoor track!

Here is what I think is happening. With the shocks mounted to the front of the rear tower they dig in if the car turns over and due to the canterlever effect of the shock being spaced off the tower excerts a large bending moment on the tower which has no choice but to fail at the change in section for the mount recess.
Due to the amazing quality of Kyosho's mouldings the towers survive to let you finish the run, just with a car that feels a little reluctant to change direction towards the opposite side to the breakage as the tower flexes. You can feel when the tower has cracked but at least you CAN finish the run.

By mounting the shocks on the rear of the tower the rounded edge of the moulding is all that contacts the ground and that doesn't dig in like the shock cap does thus doesn't load the tower in the same way so it survives to fight another day.


To prove this point I took the car to a local BMX track and deliberately threw the car off the jumps badly and sure enough after a couple of minutes I cracked a tower. Fitted the new tower and mounted the shocks on the back of the tower & wishbones and no matter what I did I couldn't break a tower!!! Ok I've wrecked both wing mounts, a front tower and a wishbone testing this out but if I have found a way of keeping the car in one piece for a full season of normal use without having to replace any major parts as was the case last year with the SP I'm happy. :thumbsup:

[Neil Skull]

Just to let anyone know who might want to upgarde an old lazer rather than splashing out on a full FS.

We managed to get a few LAW38 back in stock. This is the FS conversion set.

Just contact your local model shop if you want to order one.

[Fabs]

Just found out, to all of you who have a converted FS from an SP kit out there, the rear hubs provided with the SP are different to the ones on the FS kits and RB5 workds kit.

The rear hubs you want are UM519 and will provide a lot more rear end grip, especially on low grip surfaces.

[RogerM]

I posted that info in post #94 in this thread ...... ;)

[RogerM]

Fabs and I have been chatting about some other mods to this car to help dial it into the UK surfaces .... watch this space!!!!!

[Fabs]

I posted that info in post #94 in this thread ...... ;)

Yes but I had not realised the ones that came with the SP were different...

[RogerM]

Just felt the need to confirm whatWoody has said previously about the one-way diff in the FS. I actually swapped between a true diff and one-way diff on Sunday with no set-up changes at all. I have never come across a car where you could do this before without upsetting it baddly. The change in feel was certainly no greater than you would have got on most cars by fitting / removing a centre shaft one way.

This is a really useful tuning aid and I am gald I got talked into trying it now.

Basically if you at a track that a one way would be helpful on then slot it in, if not then I intend to run a true diff.


Hell I'm loving this car!!!!

[Migs]

hi guys, i have been reading this thread and its very interesting reading indeed, i just would like something made clear for me regarding the parts in the conversion vs the fs kit, im looking at buying an fs converted from an sp, are you guys saying that some of the parts differ between the conversion and the full fs kit, if so, that seems odd, and if its true, could someone take the time to list what i would need to make it a full fs, thanks in advance

Edit, just found rogers post #94 which has the very useful info that i need, thanks

[Migs]

maybe a silly question, is there any way the j-concepts wheels can be run on the kyosho?

[RogerM]

Migs, there is a proline axle conversion for the rear (part number UMW502 I think but please check before ordering) which means AE/Proline/Losi wheels are a direct bolt on.

For the front you will have to change the hex. Some people say the Hotbodies hex for Losi wheels on the D4 is the one to go for but I made my own so can not comment on the D4 part 100%

My only question is why would you want to run those wheels? IMHO the worst looking wheels in 1/10th off-road history!!! Different strokes for different folks I guess :D

[Migs]

hhaha, thanks roger, i love the rulux wheels, its something ive always felt that has been lacking in 1/10 rims, all the 1/8 off roaders have heaps of cool styles of rim and we get dish rims, oh but we can choose yellow or white, lol, i was looking at the manual for the zx5, it did look like i can put a b44 hex on the front axle, and i'll fofllow up on this rear conversion, thanks very much for the help, oh and the other reason is i have loads of losi and j concepts rims and lots of tires glued up, so if i gi the kyosho route, i want to make it as painless as possible

[RogerM]

Migs,

you can not use the B44 hex!!! Axle clearance diameter is wrong, back depth is wrong and bearing contact diameter is wrong! They simply would take so much effort you'd be better of making some from scratch as I did!!!

It's the HotBodies D4 hexs for use with Losi rims that some people have used, just wanted to be clear.

[Migs]

thanks roger, i'll get the D4 hexes