Crawlers!?

[jimmy]

Who's into these Crawler things then? they seem to be getting a bit more mainstream now. I've wanted one for a long-long time but it wasn't till the AX10 came out that I really thought I'd get one - and now the Tamiya CR01 is out as well I'm quite tempted. I know the Tamiya probably isn't quite the 'competition' crawler, but it looks pretty nice :thumbsup:
Anyone have one of these to, and any thoughts on them?

Is there much crawling in the UK? I know Andy Ryan has some super custom made clod-based thing, but I don't think they appeal to me as much as the slightly more 'scale' looking AX10 and CR01

http://www.ckrccrawlers.com/shop/images/TLC.jpg


Anyway, I thought it was time for a 'Truck' forum since I've always liked scale trucks - I've owned a very nice Bruiser (and sold it) and had the F350 but never got round to build it and then swapped it.

[andyr]

they do quite a lot down derbyshire jimmy they do the open class like i have or they do the scale ones i think the website is www.ukrcrc (http://www.ukrcrc).com

[DCM]

jimmy, I been fancyung the cr01, but there are some issues with the centre props twisting.

[josh_smaxx]

My AX-10 should be here tomorrow :thumbsup: wanted to do it for a long time and due to recent 'happenings' its gives me the perfect opportunity to do it.

[Chequered Flag Racing]

they do quite a lot down derbyshire jimmy they do the open class like i have or they do the scale ones i think the website is www.ukrcrc (http://www.ukrcrc).com

you got the dot com in the wrong place

link is www.ukrcrc.com (http://www.ukrcrc.com)

[HKP]

Hey Jimmy,

Crawlers are the future! :thumbsup:

Here are some pics of my modified CR-01 Land Cruiser with rear wheel steer :woot: (note the decals) and also me competing at this years Rock Crawling Nationals with my Axial AX-10 Comp Rig :)

Tom

[Fiddybux]

I'm sure others get a lot of enjoyment from it, and I suppose it adds a nice bit of diversity to the RC scene, but why though????? Hardly exciting is it...nor is it a decent spectator sport.

Just my opinion...but Rock Crawling sucks big time....not for me at all.

Now where's my 65 turn motor?

[josh_smaxx]

Why?!?!?! Because its probably one of the most realistic form of RC driving and you can get an hours running off a 1500mah lipo :thumbsup:

[HKP]

I'm sure others get a lot of enjoyment from it, and I suppose it adds a nice bit of diversity to the RC scene, but why though????? Hardly exciting is it...nor is it a decent spectator sport.

Just my opinion...but Rock Crawling sucks big time....not for me at all.

Now where's my 65 turn motor?

Just my humble opinion, but this years Nats had as many spectators as some Buggy Nats, maybe more. There were also a lot of oohs and aah and cheers from spectators during runs..

Exciting doesn't have to involve speed :p

[josh_smaxx]

Exciting doesn't have to involve speed :p

Although im going to have admit it does help :blush: thats why me and 2 friends are also building a 12 cell tubular drag car just for kicks.

[Rossco_4]

I've got an AX10 its great fun...... i've made a few modifications to the links and now it climbs really well..... very little torque twist.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/rossco_123/crawler/S7300529.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/rossco_123/crawler/S7300640.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/rossco_123/crawler/S7300546.jpg

[josh_smaxx]

Rossco, awesome looking rig :thumbsup: I think im going for something like that but im getting a Landy shell :thumbsup: and going proper scale on it. I think im going to put my cells like you have as well, did you make a mounting plate for them or are they just strapped to the axle?

[terry.sc]

Great timing there Jimmy, we just spent last weekend running the crawler nationals.:p Read the reports on it in upcoming Radio Race Car,(Dez dropped an article just to get it in next months magazine) Racer and Maxbashing magazine, and it is heavily supported and promoted by CML right now, they actually supplied complete kits as prizes.

Crawling has been around in the UK for a few years, but there's only been a small amount of interest until the last year with the release of the AX10. It's the fastest growing section of r/c cars right now and judging by the 52 competitors (we couldn't run any more!) that turned up and the feedback I got from going round talking to the spectators it's going to be even bigger next year.

It's not something most people think about until they see the trucks in action or try it for themselves, just seeing what they are capable of. There's also the build it yourself side to it. In buggies you buy a kit and fit whatever parts the fastest lads are using, copy their setups and that's it. Crawling is all about developing your own truck, adding what parts you think necessary to make it work with your own style. Imagine trying to build your own buggy by using whichever front end, rear end, transmission and chassis you think is the best and putting them together instead of just buying the kit off the shelf. The course is laid out with waypoints and it's up to you to figure out how to get your truck to each point without scoring penalty points (or in my case without breaking it (http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m43/Moto5/Dez82/Crawler%20-supers/47-rrci-ouch.jpg):blush:) so requires thinking about rather than just following the same line as everyone else.

Photos from this years nationals are here
http://www.ukrcrc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3260
and from the previous nationals
http://www.ukrcrc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=894

Here's a video from a US competition, it's a 60mb download but it's the best video I've seen of them and it shows just what they are capable of http://smregal.com/vids/RC%20vids/comp41407%20Season%20Finale.wmv

Here's my two rigs.
2.2" class (photo by Dez Chand :thumbsup:)
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m43/Moto5/Dez82/Crawlers%202-2/18-rrci.jpg

My Super class - twin 65T motors running on 12 volts.
http://www.tamiyaclub.com/tc_userimages/297/img297_15072008145233_2.jpg
http://www.ukrcrc.com/gallery/albums/userpics/47.jpg

[josh_smaxx]

That clod super is quite impressive :thumbsup: but im more for the scale looking 2.2's and 1.9's, id quite like a tamiya XC/CC as a scaler with a landy shell on.

[terry.sc]

Hardly exciting is it...nor is it a decent spectator sport.And buggy racing is? How many fellow racers spend their time at a national watching the other drivers running, and how interesting is a race if no one you know is racing? For the spectator crawling shows either the great skill of the driver to climb over the obstacles without penalties at one extreme, and at the other extreme it's the r/c equivalent of You've Been Framed:lol:

No matter how good or bad they were every driver got a round of applause after their run, I don't see that much interest from spectators in any other branch of r/c cars.

Just my opinion...but Rock Crawling sucks big time....not for me at all.I didn't think much of it until I had a go and my Super is now my most expensive r/c truck.

Even if you went crawling every weekend the tyres last forever, (there's only one person I know who has actually worn tyres out on a Super and it took him a year!) brushed motors never need rebuilding and you only need 1400mah batteries :thumbsup:

[Rossco_4]

Rossco, awesome looking rig :thumbsup: I think im going for something like that but im getting a Landy shell :thumbsup: and going proper scale on it. I think im going to put my cells like you have as well, did you make a mounting plate for them or are they just strapped to the axle?

My cells are just strapped on to the axle using the two velcro straps that came with the kit...... they seem to do the job fine.

don't get too attached to a nice shell on your crawler as sliding down rough as hell rocks on your roof does tend to take the shine off them (literally) :)

[josh_smaxx]

Even if you went crawling every weekend the tyres last forever, (there's only one person I know who has actually worn tyres out on a Super and it took him a year!)

Thats the part i am most looking forward to :thumbsup: £22 for a set of tires, dont need to change the foams and beadlock wheels means same wheels used everytime and no more acetone :thumbsup:

[josh_smaxx]

don't get too attached to a nice shell on your crawler as sliding down rough as hell rocks on your roof does tend to take the shine off them (literally) :)

Ah yes, i have plans for that. I paint the inside of the shell a rust colour, then on the outside layer it with silver, primer colour then body colour (probably green) so when it scrathes away it looks realistic, learnt that trick on RCC :yawn:

[gazbaz2]

Why?!?!?! Because its probably one of the most realistic form of RC driving and you can get an hours running off a 1500mah lipo :thumbsup:


relistic ??????? lmao give me a brake, i must agrea with Fiddybux, not for me at all.
an hour of running, bloody hell, i would have fallen asleep by then:p

Thats a great BIG no for me:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

1/8th rallycross now there's a more relistic form of RC driving:thumbsup:

[jimmy]

What landy shells are available? I like the CR01 mainly because it's a tamiya and looks cool! :) I don't mind the modified clods but they don't really appeal to me that much - I like scale stuff much more. I think I saw a Ax10 in orange? or did I dream that? I'd happily have one of those badboys but I'm leaning toward the tamiya - just gotta convince vicky its a good idea lol

[josh_smaxx]

Jimmy, the only mainstream landy shell i have found available in the UK is the defender 90 from HPI but im sure there is more. Go on Jimmy, you know you want one :thumbsup:

Gaz, everyone to there own :thumbsup: personally i love all the landrovers and offroading stuff and i love RC so why not combine? BTW that was a rhetorical question.

[HKP]

The CR-01 is certainly sweet.. In stock form it's not desperately capable, the biggest problem I found was the lack of rear suspension articulation and extreme top-heaviness.. My one above has the rockers removed and the Losi shell fitted and works much much better :D

[DCM]

I was looking at the Axial, didn't like the shell and all them plastic bits.... the CR-01 mmmmm yummy, even if it just sat on the shelf!!

[jimmy]

The CR-01 is certainly sweet.. In stock form it's not desperately capable, the biggest problem I found was the lack of rear suspension articulation and extreme top-heaviness.. My one above has the rockers removed and the Losi shell fitted and works much much better :D

nice one! I don't know when I'll be able to get one but it's definitely in my future :thumbsup:

[josh_smaxx]

I don't know when I'll be able to get one but it's definitely in my future :thumbsup:

I'll remember that :yawn: lol

Cant wait to build mine and get out playing with it :woot:

[terry.sc]

What landy shells are available? I like the CR01 mainly because it's a tamiya and looks cool! :) I don't mind the modified clods but they don't really appeal to me that much - I like scale stuff much more. I think I saw a Ax10 in orange? or did I dream that? I'd happily have one of those badboys but I'm leaning toward the tamiya - just gotta convince vicky its a good idea lol
The orange AX10 is the new ARTR version. For £25 more than the green kit you get it ready built but with high clearance links, nitride coated shocks, straight rear axle, a better body and Proline Hammer tyres, all of which make it a much more capable machine than the kit version.

For Land Rovers there is the HPI body, then Kamtec make a Defender which although more basic being ABS it can be detailed up nicely
http://www.tamiyaclub.com/tc_userimages/15376/generated/img15376_05052008004954_2_350.jpg

Kamtec also make a Bowler Wildcat
http://www.tamiyaclub.com/tc_userimages/2593/generated/img2593_13082007115006_1_350.jpg

Although the ultimate 1/10th scale body has to be this one, available here (http://www.tamiyaclub.com/trades_model.asp?cid=63527&id=1675)
http://www.tamiyaclub.com/tc_userimages/1675/generated/img1675_06042006024632_2_350.jpg

If you fancy scale stuff and trial trucks rather than all out competition crawlers although http://www.rccrawler.com has a dedicated scale section the site you need to look at is http://www.scale4x4rc.org/forums/index.php just check out some of the trucks in their top builds section (http://www.scale4x4rc.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78)

[josh_smaxx]

:drool::drool::drool: At the last one in that post, the blue one.

[jimmy]

Yeah I went on a hunt for that Landy body a while ago and the only place I could find it was a shop in Japan that didn't seem to speak English - or in fact Japanese since I got my coworker to email them to try buy one :lol:

What sort of chassis' would that hard landy body fit on - of course the XC but are there any others that would suit?

[josh_smaxx]

What sort of chassis' would that hard landy body fit on - of course the XC but are there any others that would suit?

I think it would look ace on the scale like homemade frame chassis's or any 1.9, like the hi-lift ect.

[jimmy]

Where do people usually use these badboys then? on specially designed 'courses' or laid out on natural features etc..?

How about the cow and calf rocks in Ilkley? :thumbsup:

http://www.fotocraftimages.co.uk/photo-images/wharfedale/626cowandcalfrocks.jpg

[josh_smaxx]

Jimmy that looks perfect, great location for it. Im going to ue mine anywhere, i have lots and lots of rock in my garden from when we lined the pond with it so im making my own personal course. I also think boulder sea defences look good like at Scarbrough, and more locally to me runswick bay and whitby.

[jimmy]

Once I've convinced vicky to let me have one (probably by selling some stuff first) we'll have to have a bit of a northern crawl:thumbsup: The tamiya looks awesome but the AX10 is probably better and is certainly cheaper - oh hum.

[josh_smaxx]

Haha, regional crawling?!

With being out n about in the country alot there looks to be some amazing places close to me for it, cant wait now, i just wish the postal service would get this bloody car to me!

[jimmy]

The place I go for review photos would be pretty good
http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/reviewhbd4/bling02.jpg

[terry.sc]

What sort of chassis' would that hard landy body fit on - of course the XC but are there any others that would suit?The obvious choice of chassis is the XC but as the width is standard touring car size a TA-02/Hummer?Cayenne chassis could be adjusted to suit. XCs are used as they give decent articulation, although it would be easy to fabricate a crawler chassis from TLT axles or even an AX10. I should have measured the wheelbase of the body when I had got one for somebody.

In a similar way I'm trying to fit one of these Discovery bodies on a TA-02 chassis as they are also usually mounted on an XC like this one.
http://www.tamiyaclub.com/tc_userimages/2965/generated/img2965_28122006151542_2_350.jpg

[terry.sc]

Where do people usually use these badboys then? on specially designed 'courses' or laid out on natural features etc..? Wherever you like really. The most well known place is Black Rocks in derbyshire (scale trucks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrQ2rr1kCiM) and comp crawlers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uf6Dgjmx1Q)-be amazed!) [/URL]and it was used at last years nationals, here's what the easier course for the 2.2s looked like http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=64766&sid=169 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uf6Dgjmx1Q).

This year we hired a centre used for full size bike trials, so lots of natural rock through the woods on private land to crawl over. [url]http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=77497&sid=297

Quite a few people have extended 'rockeries' in their garden, just so they can crawl over them. I have Windgather Rocks near Whaley Bridge as a test site, the rocks lean back so one day I'll have to have a go at trying to crawl up the thing. A northern crawl meet might be an idea, there's already a group of us in the North West who are always up for a meet.

[Lee]

That is cool and it looks fun, but how do you get penalty points, can you use reverse?

[josh_smaxx]

That is cool and it looks fun, but how do you get penalty points, can you use reverse?

Reverse, rollovers, assited forward progress; stuff like that

[terry.sc]

Here's the rules we run to in the UK
http://www.ukrcrc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1739

To get a clean run you have to keep going forwards at all times. Rolling over by falling off the course can be a big points hit so it's useful if you have a technique to get back on your wheels.

Notice the complete lack of construction rules:thumbsup:

[josh_smaxx]

Bet place to post it in.

How the hell do you get the yokes onto the propshafts on the AX-10!!!???? :confused: Just by looking at it, it looks like there is no possible way to get that pin into the holes on the propshafts. Wouldnt it have been easier with a removable pin in the UJ captured by a grub screw? :confused:

[terry.sc]

Try Axials tutorial
http://www.axialracing.com/ftp/crawlertips/driveshaft_yoke_install.html

[jimmy]

Looks good does that, I mean the other link with the crawling photos. Is there any of that business goin on up noorf then?

[HKP]

Derbyshire! That's bloody Noorf enough for me!!

(starts regional war..) :D

[terry.sc]

Is Craster noorf enough:lol:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-7429461138506745848&hl=en-GB

Considering there's a bunch of us from Manchester/Warrington/Chester with them, if someone can find somewhere off the M62 we'd be up for a meet.

[jimmy]

The place I take the review cars is a few mins away from Bronte models - its a wild place sometimes like a scene out of madmax or something. More dirt and stones than rocks tho.

[HKP]

Sounds like HPI Baja Country!

[josh_smaxx]

Mines built :thumbsup: took it for a test run in the garden and im pleasently urprised at the capability of it, even with 3 cells at the highest point and no reverse for some reason :confused: i think id like to go down to the medium springs and rearange the cells a little better to get the weight lower/further forward onto the front axle.

[josh_smaxx]

For anyone wanting to know im running:

AX-10 scorpion kit - standard
Novak 55t
Mamba Max ESC
Spektrum DX3.0
Towerpro MG995 steering servo
Stormforce E-Power 4500 cells - there a bit overkill but im not letting them go to waste.

[qatmix]

I've just got myself a CR01 :) Havent been so excited about building a kit for ages. I went for the CR01 as its tamiya, and it costs the same (£165) including Ems shipping from rc champ.

I've become interested in crawling, probably due to Terry talking about it at the club, and the fact that I can go out crawling with my boy at a weekend..

(plus the build looks really interesting)

[jimmy]

Yeah I'm a bit torn between the two, the Axial looks a bit more business like but the tamiya like you say - is a Tamiya!:thumbsup:

[HKP]

Good luck with the 80 (yes Eighty) tiny fiddly screws that hold the wheels together! Can you say "RSI"? :D

The kit does go together like a dream though :)

[jimmy]

80 !!!!
please tell me they are hex screws? :lol:

[terry.sc]

80 !!!!
please tell me they are hex screws? :lol:Not sure what they are, but at least they are self tappers so don't need as much screwing. My Axial super size wheels have 96 screws, all machine thread, M2 and 12mm long:cry:.
I needed to change wheels on my 2.2 rig for the nationals - that totalled 160 screws to be removed and replaced. Guess who found another use for a cordless drill with torque control:thumbsup: It still took me over an hour!

[jimmy]

What's needed to run the mamba max in a crawler then? I assume none of the castle creations motors are suitable as they're too quick? is there a motor that's right?

[HKP]

sadly they are Phillips screws on the tamiya (hex on the axial).

The motor you need is a novak or integy 55 turn. There was an in depth review of the novak in racer earlier this year I seem to recall.

[terry.sc]

If you are going for a Mamba Max you might as well do the job properly and have a look at a Holmes Hobbies Crawlmaster brushless (http://holmeshobbies.com/home.php?cat=19).
If you are going to use the Mamba in something else as well then use it, but if you don't need the extra performance most crawlers are moving over to the Sidewinder. It's half the price, easier to fit in the chassis and there's absolutely no performance difference between them in a crawler.

If you aren't planning on running brushless then I would recommend a Tekin FX-R instead. Smoother, can be programmed in the field and an amazing drag brake, and lots of crawlers are moving away from the CC ESCs to the FX-R. http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105316

For brushed motors the Axial ratios seem to be designed around a 55 turn motor, so you have a choice of them from Integy, Reedy, Novak, etc. I use Integy motors, much cheaper than the other makes which is a consideration when you have two of them in each truck. Go to higher winds for more torque, lower for more speed.

[josh_smaxx]

I have the mamba on the novak 55t and its great, speed is just above walking pace and it will drag it up anything providing it has the grip, i can reverse it up a wall till its at the point of tipping over and the drag brake will hold it there with no problems what so ever, amazing!

Best upgrade for the axial is stronger propshafts! iv snapped a yoke already.

[qatmix]

Erm, as I'm on a budget I think I will just use my Mtroniks at first with a 55t motor, then see how it goes.

I know its shallow, but I prefer the Tamiya because of the cool engineering / bodyshell and the fact that they've boxed it up like a true classic tamiya.. even the wife said the box looked good :)

[jimmy]

yeah, can't argue with that box art :thumbsup: I saw one in a shop in Italy - almost had to grab it and run :woot:

What's needed to run this Mamba with the motor you mentioned Josh?
What's the most common method of weighting the wheels? I've heard of taping lead weights to the wheel inside the tyre, or putting lead shot inside the tyre so it always rolls round to the bottom (can't sound nice tho can it?)

[josh_smaxx]

Just wire it up noramlly as you would use brushed, red wire to positive, black to neg, leave out the middle white one. Program it with reverse, 40% drag brake and start power on high, works a charm. Best thing is the novak motor is only £23 from DMS :thumbsup:

I havent weighted my wheels yet but running car wheel balance weights inside the rim helps, also i heard that using hose pipe connected in a loop with led shot in wrapped around the midle of the wheel can be done, and that means you can have it inside it and still run foams.

Foams need cutting down width wise and cut into a star shape as stock but id assume the proline memory foam is spot on as it is in the ARTR version (also the tires will be better).

[josh_smaxx]

For future reference these are much stronger and are a direct fit for the AX-10 :thumbsup:

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?CallFunction=ShowSpecification&ItemID=14902

[terry.sc]

What's the most common method of weighting the wheels? I've heard of taping lead weights to the wheel inside the tyre, or putting lead shot inside the tyre so it always rolls round to the bottom (can't sound nice tho can it?)Usually using stick on wheel balancing weights round the rim, Twinset used enough weights to bring his tyres up to 380grams per wheel http://www.tamiyaclub.com/showroom_model.asp?cid=76479&sid=169 Many fill the tyres with airsoft pellets, some use ball bearings in the tyres, but these do mean running without foams. I don't use much weight in the tyres as I already have just about all the weight on my rigs mounted on the axles anyway, and I'm using the Proline 8 Shooter wheels which have cast beadlock rings which add quite a bit themselves. The Junfac beadlocks I also use have 100 grams of wheel weights stuck on them.
The ARTR comes with Prolines memory foams, they do make a difference and give the same amount of rebound as properly star cut and narrowed standard foams

[terry.sc]

Best upgrade for the axial is stronger propshafts! iv snapped a yoke already.The yokes can be protected just by using Axials driveshaft rings. God knows why they don't just include them in the kit.

[josh_smaxx]

The yokes can be protected just by using Axials driveshaft rings. God knows why they don't just include them in the kit.

Yes, i'll be using those as well as the 'pede shafts, the front wheels just got slightly stuck on a ladder and the shaft just clicked off.

I typed that post wrong, i didnt break a yoke but the ears on the male shaft.

[HKP]

The ARTR comes with Prolines memory foams, they do make a difference and give the same amount of rebound as properly star cut and narrowed standard foams

Which is a relief as star cutting foams must be the longest RC chore I have ever come across!!

at the nationals, I couldn't tell the difference between Star Cuts and Memory Foams, plus the Memories are a nats c*ck heavier which is a bonus :thumbsup:

[terry.sc]

Which is a relief as star cutting foams must be the longest RC chore I have ever come across!!You should try it with a Super, the foams have a circumference of 21 inches (so a lot of cuts!) with the added problem that they don't sell the foams separately if you mess up:o

[mole2k]

These threads are dangerous, the more I read about crawlers the more I want one. For a custom build one has anybody tried using a worm gear setup? If you could get a beefy enough setup you could use a fairy revy motor also you wouldnt need a drag brake as the worm gear would lock the wheels as soon as you let off the power.

I know absolutely nothing about crawlers so its probably not plausable but I was wondering about it!

Anyway stop tempting me, my wallet cant take it!

[josh_smaxx]

Pictures of my AX-10 for Jimmy :thumbsup:

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/josh_2k7/2008_0718outnaboutpluscrawler0029.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/josh_2k7/2008_0718outnaboutpluscrawler0027.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/josh_2k7/2008_0718outnaboutpluscrawler0026.jpg

Yes the front prop shaft is broken :( new, stronger one tomorrow :lol:

[jimmy]

Nice one mate, yeah me and Mole are in the same position - we need one! :woot:

[josh_smaxx]

yeah me and Mole are in the same position - we need one! :woot:

Dam right you do :thumbsup: only because we would then get to see an amazing crawler review :woot:

[mole2k]

The thing that worries me is i could afford one in a week or two when some money clears. Looks like im gonna have to hide the cards for a few weeks.

[terry.sc]

For a custom build one has anybody tried using a worm gear setup? If you could get a beefy enough setup you could use a fairy revy motor also you wouldnt need a drag brake as the worm gear would lock the wheels as soon as you let off the power.
Kyoshos new crawler uses worm drives on the axles, the rear axle has a servo operated dig setup so you can have full drive, rear locked or rear freewheeling. http://www.rccaraction.com//Media/MediaManager/Kyosho%20Rock.jpg
Expect to see it in the UK before the end of the year.

Using worm drives usually means you either have drive or it's locked, it's also useful to also be able to freewheel the back wheels on steep climbs, you use the front dig to stop the back end flipping the truck over while still freewheeling so the front end can pull the truck up. Braking the rear axle is used for extra tight steering and control on steep descents.

[mole2k]

...
Using worm drives usually means you either have drive or it's locked, it's also useful to also be able to freewheel the back wheels on steep climbs, you use the front dig to stop the back end flipping the truck over while still freewheeling so the front end can pull the truck up. Braking the rear axle is used for extra tight steering and control on steep descents.

I knew there must be some reasoning behind it! I am getting more and more tempted by these. There arnt any places near here that I can think of that would have many rocks though.

[terry.sc]

Something to tempt you more. Peter Gray won a TCS Edge chassis for the AX10 at the nationals on sunday, here he is giving it a test run. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGpyp_MuWDM

[josh_smaxx]

Been playing with it again today :lol: found somewhere very nice for crawling.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p301/josh_2k7/crawlerfirstrun165.jpg

[DAVIDZX5]

just wondering where is the cheapist place to get a rock crawler...??

which one shall i go for....???

:)

[josh_smaxx]

Cheapest i have found for the AX-10 is DMSracing for £170, it seems the best out of the box and seriously exceeded my expections today by a long way.

[mole2k]

Is the scorpian pro worth getting over the scorpian when i wouldnt be competing just messing around? (damn you terry.sc)

[josh_smaxx]

The ARTR is the better one that comes with a few upgrades, i dont know exactly what apart from the bent links and better tires/foams. The noraml one is a kit and the ARTR is built for you, just need to add electrics.

I just have the kit one and today it exceeded every expectation i had of it. Amazing.

[Welshy40]

Well I am going to have to have a try on one of these, if im allowed when I am down in Ipswich sometime soon this month. I saw one that was in one of the RC mags and have to say its a work of art.

[terry.sc]

Is the scorpian pro worth getting over the scorpian when i wouldnt be competing just messing around? (damn you terry.sc)Hey, I didn't bring the subject up:D
The options available are the kit version and the RTR rock racer version, with the ARTR available shortly if you are getting it in the UK, although the ARTRs have been available for some time in US (http://www.tcscrawlers.com/Truck-Kits-p-1-c-3.html) and Hong Kong.
The RTR is good if you don't have spare radio gear, especially a reversing ESC, but if you get into it you will end up replacing them anyway. The RTR has plastic suspension and steering links, instead of the stronger aluminium ones on the kit and ARTR. The RTR and ARTR comes with the upgraded straight rear axle and diff lockers as standard, but the 4WS parts can be fitted to them if you want. Dez at Radio Race Car usually uses 4WS (http://www.radioracecar.com/clips/?cid=3923), but to get most use out of it you need a 3 or 4 channel radio to let you control the rear steering separately. Most people just leave the rear end on the kit one locked up or upgrade them to the RTR style.

The ARTR has a few upgrades from the kit, but the 4WS is missing. The ARTR has the high clearance links for better ground clearance, the improved heavy duty diff lockers and the new improved straight rear axle. The kit still has the option of 4 wheel steering, although you can still fit the parts to the ARTR and 4 wheel steering isn't allowed for competition use. You also get in the ARTR a better body for more clearance than the kit and RTR ones and Proline Hammer tyres with memory foam, which work much better than the kit and RTR Axial tyres.

If I was buying an AX10 myself I would be tempted to hang on for the ARTR.

The problem is once you get one there's all the extra goodies you can get for them from the crawler specialists like The Crawler Store (http://www.tcscrawlers.com/) and RC4WD:woot: (http://www.rc4wdstore.com/)

[mole2k]

I dont have the money for one at the moment anyway, hopefully the ARTR will be available when I do. I do have a 4ch radio although it is a plane radio so competiting with it would be out of the question... (Not that I imagine there is any organised crawling done here anyway)

I quite like the sound of a dig setup for doing tight turns also.

If I could get one setup with my current 2 channel setup to start with then see about adding a dig setup and 4 wheel steering. I have a reversable LRP speedo and a hitec 5925 servo so part of the way there :P

[mark christopher]

terry.sc
relaisticly what options are needed to improve the artr looking at truck and brushless novak goat too!

[terry.sc]

Depends on what you want to do with it and what you consider necessary.

Driveshafts seem to be the only problem with them, fitting the Axial driveshaft rings protects the yokes, then the only problem is snapping the shafts themselves if/when you bind up the drivetrain. The absolute best fix for this is the MIP spline driveshafts (http://www.tcscrawlers.com/MIP-C-Drive-Spline-Set-for-Axial-AX10-Scorpion-2-each-08101-p-16872.html) that will cure any problems with them permanently, but under normal circumstances the kit driveshafts are fine. Most of the AX10s at the nationals were running as standard and performed well, the most common mod was the high clearance links that come on the ARTR.

Mounting the battery on the front makes the biggest difference, the standard mounting place is the worst position it could possibly be. Options are to either sort out a pack specific to the truck, like on Joshs truck above, or to mount a stick pack or lipo on top of the front link.
Changing the one piece upper link to two separate links will also give you lots more articulation for very little outlay, but more obvious torque twist from the chassis.

You then start eyeing up a dig setup (http://www.tcscrawlers.com/Pre-Order-TCS-Crawlers-RC4WD-AXD-Dig-Disconnect-for-Axial-AX10-Scorpion-p-16835.html) which locks up the rear wheels so you can turn much tighter by pivoting around the rear wheels, better chassis such as the TCS Edge (http://www.tcscrawlers.com/On-Sale-35-off-TCS-Edge-AX10-Scorpion-Direct-Bolt-on-Tube-Frame-Chrome-US-Patent-Pending-p-16788.html) which means you don't need a body so lower CoG (the best AX10 at the nationals used one) but none of these parts are necessary to crawl with.

[mark christopher]

got any more info on the dig system?

[HKP]

You might want to have a butchers on rccrawler.com - this one is shipping in limited quantities - http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107126

For you oOple crawling newbies, a DIG is a disengagement, where you disengage drive to an axle so the still driven pair of wheels pivot around the locked ones. It looks pretty impressive too! :)

*edit* Heh, didn't see you defined a DIG above terry.. :blush::thumbsup:

[terry.sc]

These will illustrate what dig does for the steering, both using an AX10. You will need a spare channel on your radio for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lVE9vqlcyU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScVIPrwxu-o

[MiniGaz]

would a converted wheelie king not be a viable option. doesn't seem to take too much to make it work, and with a how-to (http://ukrcrc.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=43) it seems a good alternative. what do the veterans say???

[terry.sc]

The Wheely King is a very viable alternative to the Axial, the ones competing at the nationals did very well and went better than the standard AX10s. But they don't come set up as crawlers.

That link illustrates the good old make it yourself style which has made crawlers popular for lots of people, and the same reason the majority have had no interest in it as it doesn't come ready to go. I know it's just making up a set of extended links and sourcing propshafts from something else, but there is an easier way. HPI make a rock crawler conversion kit to change the chassis and suspension over to a proper crawler, including new links, link mounts, servo mount, diff locks, body mounts for 1/10th shells, new wheels and tyres, everything you need to convert it. But they aren't widely available like the AX10 is.

Nice and simple to convert, but the advantage with an AX10 is that it's almost ready to go well out of the box and there are loads of upgrades that just bolt on with no fuss which is why they appeal to most people.

It is cheaper than the AX10 if you aren't bothering with competition performance though.:thumbsup: