The Main Event

[Lee]

Right, lets get some ideas down about this big event people are after.

The obvious thing is to put it on the back end of the NEO, which would mean the track is already done for us, the big name drivers are already over in the UK, and the fee`s should be less, (in theory).

I can sort out control tyres no problem.

Any ideas or constructive criticism would be appreciated. Obviously a lot of talking will have to be done with the DXR boys, but in my eyes it is definately do-able. :thumbsup:

[James]

I disagree, the DXR boys are awesome and the neo/proline events for 8th are surely the best in Europe but in my opinion the track wouldn't suit 10th for proper racing...you'll end up with loads of broken cars. As a track to drive round on yeah, as a race meeting no.....

It would have to be a purpose built 10th track, of course if you dismantle the 8th track when the meetings finished and rebuild for 10th that would work, but an immense amount of work would be involved.


So as I see it, there are three options:


1. Dedicated 10th DXR dirt track at Harper Adams

2. Indoor type meeting but at a public (preferably auto based) event (think this would suit Stu's remit better)

3. Mega promotion for the Worksop Indoor International Grand-Prix that we are going to run anyway


I'm biassed :)


Discuss :p

[cjm_2008]

control tyres = brilliant!

allowing Lipo would be nice too :)

how much will the entry fee be?

[Rich D]

Ive never raced on dirt so would jump at the chance to. :thumbsup:

[Northy]

Agree with James, the Neo track would be too big IMHO for 10th, I should know I've been told off for building big tracks in the past :p

If it was suitable, it would be more suitable BEFORE the nitro guys had been on it, the track surface cut up really bad in some areas, but the 8th's could cope.

Why does it have to be indoors? :confused:

G

[footey]

because u can control the weather G as english weather is well CRAP:(

[ben]

because u can control the weather G as english weather is well CRAP:(

We still race in the rain anyway dont we?
Why would it matter if it was on an all astro track? ;)

[Lee]

The main reason why i said the NEO was because most of the big names would all be over anyway, i think we would struggle to bring people in to the UK for a 1 off event that is not established. ( no offence intended)do you think people would travel thousands of miles to race at one of our national tracks? Personally i dont, especially with the british climate.

[Northy]

But it wasn't always established......

I wouldn't like to get a buggy roung the Neo track for 5 mins without snapping it :lol:

And, I don't think that many of the guys who come over for the Neo actually race electric too, do they? :confused:

G

[Lee]

I think the big names do G, like the maifields, truhe etc

[sparrow.2]

We still race in the rain anyway dont we?
Why would it matter if it was on an all astro track? ;)

The rest of the world doesn't race in the wet, we are pussies :)

No seriously, most people would be completely gutted to drive all the way to England and then get rained on in a field... Indoor offroad on dirt would have this massive attraction in europe because it's unusual and depending on the time of year outdoor racing will have ended or not started yet. You also have more control over what the track is doing.

NeoBuggy would be great and even if the features are huge most that were in Jimmy's photos from the last one looked drivable with a 1/10 buggy and a friend who was there said it would have been all right too.

The control tyre idea is great too, takes a bit of the cost out of it as you don't have to buy every tyre combination known to man in the run up, only to find the top guys running Cournon Y's from 1993.

[Sebastian]

only to find the top guys running Cournon Y's from 1993.

Hahaha! The famous "Schweinenasen" (pig noses?) :thumbsup:

[Cruise]

"Schweinenasen" (pig noses?) :thumbsup:

Yeah I remember those.

Cruise

[racingdwarf]

The thing DXR gets right is the big meeting atmosphere, indoor pitting next to the track, fantastic rostrum and race control and a good dirt surface USA style etc,It may be daft to try and run 100% same track and jumps as the 1/8th this may require a few changes but as the track needs to be a little smaller I don't think that would be to hard to do.
The fact that the meeting would be so diffrent to anything else in the uk at the min is the thing that would draw people in.

You could hold the meeting at an astro track:yawn:(hehe). but to get the at the atmosphere & hype right would cost some dosh:woot:.

[Lee]

I agree, dirt is the attraction.

Also im sure the DXR guys could make the track so that the 1/10 cars miss out some of the BIG sections that are deemed to dangerous :lol:

I think we need to have a proper chat with wez (not WES:lol:) about how much this is looking to cost to be run along side the neo race and from there we can work out costs of entries etc. I would also hope to get a 300+ entry. Possibly more as we would only be running for 5 mins in qualifying and there would be 2wd and 4wd classes run american style.

[Northy]

Lee, if you are serious about this I will help.

BUT don't come crying to me when you shread belts and pulleys on the huge jumps :p:woot::p:p:woot::o:eh?::):thumbsup:

G

[James]

wheres the £££££ going to come from, do you realise how much it would cost !

[jimmy]

I don't think it's that realistic without first securing LOTS of sponsorship for the event. I'm not sure it's any benefit at all to have it tagged anywhere near an 8th event - since the track would need remaking, it'd have to be 1 week later (the next weekened).

[jimmy]

I'd prefer to see (because it's realistic) a big race either indoors somewhere like Worksop but with a genius track by Northy - or alternatively some sort of outdoor track, maybe one of the new ones that's got some really nice air time - and suggestions?

[Lee]

Sponsorship will be the deciding factor on whether or not the meeting goes ahead.

Obviously there will be cash from entry fees in advance but i know sponsors will have to help out. Im pretty sure some of the bigger elec companies would like to have their names along side an event like this.

Cheers G im pretty sure i will take you up on that offer :thumbsup:

[jimmy]

If you had a seperate event there - wholly untagged onto an 8th event, then you'd be able to have the one hall, which would save money since you could pit in the dirt hall as well.
You've got MCDC's fee for announcing to think about as well don't forget! :lol:

[Lee]

good point Jimmy, i didnt actually know there were 2 seperate halls used for the neo. I thought it would just be charged as one if you know what i mean.

[jimmy]

I think CML / Proline have had as many races at that venue as neobuggy have, but I think they've all used the two halls.
If you promise things like live updates, maybe even live camera?? and things like gratis reports sent out to magazines with photos etc so you get as much coverage as possible that would help secure sponsorship.
Getting someone like proline/panther etc to be a big sponsor and provide a set of tyres for all entrys (and make them control tyre in return) would be a good move.

[Lee]

Getting someone like proline/panther etc to be a big sponsor and provide a set of tyres for all entrys (and make them control tyre in return) would be a good move.

That bit is already being discussed :thumbsup:

How easy would it be jimmy to get a live feed on oOple :o

[James]

Sit down and have a cup of tea :cool:

You're all getting very excited :D

[Northy]

Tea fixes everything, well that and hard graft. I'm going to make a cuppa now :thumbsup:

G

[Lee]

Sorry boys, tea wont fix Mr Dandruff :(:lol:

[Northy]

Sorry boys, tea wont fix Mr Dandruff :(:lol:

What about hard graft, someone once told me that with some graft you can do anything! :thumbsup:

G

[Lee]

No i reckon he will be a bit stiff now, he was removed from the office before he went stiff :thumbsup:

[Northy]

And your sure some graft won't help? :confused:

G

[Lee]

Nope he`s proper F***ed.


Anyway back on topic, how was the Tea G:confused:

[mobile chicane]

anyone thought about numbers yet ?


we have a fairly big hall at newbury ( where the mkgp was held ) we cant do dirt but we have various types of carpet and LOADS of jumps including the famous andy bell crossovers :woot::woot: we also have the custom made rostrum and proir experiance from the gp.


if enough money could be raised we may be able to hire other rooms for aditinal pitting although there is a large pit area there anyway.

only problem is the site isint central so those up north would have a long drive down :(.

[ben]

And your sure some graft won't help? :confused:

G

Graft always helps. Some have it more than others...... :thumbsup:

[Lee]

The numbers i was thinking of was approx 200 per class 2 & 4wd spread over 4 days, this should be easily achievable as we would have our usual national contingent + others:thumbsup:

[Gayo]

You should put a roof (barnum-style) on the CML track.:thumbsup:

[GRIFF55]

:thumbsup: i'm with you on that one gayo:)

[Bungleaio]

What about Coventry? They have 3 track setups, admittidly its all out door but its right in the center for people form north and south. BRCA club of the year 2007 too.

[Lee]

Nothing wrong with coventry at all but its not going to pull people over the pond is it, also i dont think the grass tracks could hold out for 4 days of racing . And the astro is slippery when when i am told :)

[sparrow.2]

Nothing wrong with coventry at all but its not going to pull people over the pond is it, also i dont think the grass tracks could hold out for 4 days of racing . And the astro is slippery when when i am told :)

400 cars on a grass track over 4 days... I'll bring a HPI Baja and hope I don't flip it on the straight due to the holes :lol:

Maybe Wezzer can enlighten us as to the cost of the NeoBuggy venue...

[lewisDXR]

How many drivers would you expect to get for a three day meeting on an August Bank Holiday Weekend ?

How much do you guys pay to race at big events ?

How long is the lap time on an average 1/10th track

Is it true that most 1/10th buggy drivers are right Moaners ?

Lewis

[wezzer]

uh oh
here we go !!!!

[sparrow.2]

How many drivers would you expect to get for a three day meeting on an August Bank Holiday Weekend ?

How much do you guys pay to race at big events ?

How long is the lap time on an average 1/10th track

Is it true that most 1/10th buggy drivers are right Moaners ?

Lewis

Lee was saying something about 200 entries per class, so there would be something like 150-250 people there including "support" (wives/girlfriends/dads/mates)

The big-ish events are about 20-30GBP per class.

Lap times range anywhere from 20-40 seconds depending on size of track.

Don't know if we moan more but our hearing is better than that of the 1/8th scale crowd :)

[lewisDXR]

So for a three day indoor event you guys pay £30 at the moment (per class)

[Lee]

Yes we are estimating at 200 per class so 400 in total.

We paid £60 a class for the euros :)

the idea is to put a £50 a class entry fee in place but this would hopefully include one set of the control tyres.

[lewisDXR]

How many cars can you guys run in a heat 15 ?

[ben]

10 i think

[sparrow.2]

So for a three day indoor event you guys pay £30 at the moment (per class)

We don't usually have huge indoor event which require a huge amount of work beforehand, so it's difficult to compare.
The amount of days a competition runs doesn't usually translate to the entry fee.

How much do you pay for 8th scale indoor race?

[Lee]

On a big track we could run 15, :thumbsup: but they will only be 5 minute runs

[jimmy]

A lot of people run 2.4ghz now, but unlike 8th scale there's no firm requirement for PT's so a lot of people might not have them, so 15 in a heat might not be feasable. I've only ever seen 10 in a 10th buggy heat.

[lewisDXR]

10 !!
Is there anything stoping you running 15 ?? if the track was big enough

[sparrow.2]

How many cars can you guys run in a heat 15 ?

Depends on the size of the track. Traditional numbers for us are 10 per heat although I've been to races where the track was larger and they did 12-14 people per qualifying heat. Finals are almost always 10 guys though.

Easy to do now with PT's and AMBrc handout transponders...

[lewisDXR]

It would have to be an all PT event if you want the quick turn around to get the numbers in to make it Viable

[sparrow.2]

What is the break-even amount of racers at what entry fee at a large IC race in a venue like that?

[lewisDXR]

how long to you guys take from race over to the next one starting
2 minutes
3 minutes

??

[Lee]

2 max

[spenner]

Some people moan when others try and give constructive criticism...

Lap times for 10th should be looking from 25-30 secs.
If you had 200 drivers per class is 3 days really gonna be enough ?????
Maybe need to cut the numbers down, unless the lighting is really good (looked ok at the Neo)

For a big meeting i would look to charge around £40 per class or better still, depends how much the place is going to cost then work your price out..

Having been to the Neo 08 i really don't think the organizers need any real lecturing about how to make a track, but I'm sure there are various people who would give some guidance.

I think the meeting would be massive and very popular for 10th drivers, could well turn into a bigger meeting than the worlds!!!

[lewisDXR]

What is the break-even amount of racers at what entry fee at a large IC race in a venue like that?

You would never break even with just drivers entrys even when we did 210

[spenner]

At Nationals there is 2 mins between each heat.

Also if the club want (Don't think i'm trying to offend) the BRCA would probably be willing to come in and run the meeting for you...

Speak to Mr Worsley

[Lee]

I think we could easily fill 200 per class and it would have to be a 4 day event.

Either thurs fri sat sun

or Fri sat sun mon if its a bank hol

[sparrow.2]

You would never break even with just drivers entrys even when we did 210

And that was with what entry fee?

[Nick Goodall]

I think we could easily fill 200 per class and it would have to be a 4 day event.

Either thurs fri sat sun

or Fri sat sun mon if its a bank hol

Only if you rely on racers outside of Europe (I.E Japan and USA) to come as the Euro's (IMHO) have never been massively over-subscribed, it's only usually the UK that send more then about 5 drivers?

[lewisDXR]

Speak to Mr Worsley
I just lost all intrest :yawn:

[sparrow.2]

Only if you rely on racers outside of Europe (I.E Japan and USA) to come as the Euro's (IMHO) have never been massively over-subscribed, it's only usually the UK that send more then about 5 drivers?

Strangely enough the Euro's don't have that big an attraction to people here. I certainly know I prefer the one-off races more, as the atmosphere is usually better.

You could probably count on something like 10-15 people max from Germany for example (this is my gut feeling only working on the amount of people really travelling for the sport at the moment)

[sparrow.2]

I just lost all intrest :yawn:

:confused:

[bigred5765]

I just lost all intrest :yawn:

hehehe:woot:

[Sebastian]

I just lost all intrest :yawn:

Nooooooo!!! :cry:

[Lee]

Do not fret sebastian, I am looking into the venues etc, between myself and the others willing to help we have good contacts and we can put on a superb event. Its just all about getting an overall cost right now and gauging interest :thumbsup:

[Rich D]

We need BMAG over from the US for tips on dirt setups etc :thumbsup:

[dan_kitty]

id defo come for that

[Sebastian]

I would love to come over (and some others from Germany too I guess) and get my backwards whiped by you fast UK guys! :lol:

Matt? Are you reading? I need some secret practice sessions at EPR! ;)

Cheers

Seb

[showtime]

the entry fee you asked about for the Neo08 was £60!

which only covered just over a third of the cost of the meeting!

for anything to happen on that scale you need to raise a SERIOUS amount of money from event sponsorship! unless you think people will pay £200 to race LOL :p:)

[chris68nufc]

This idea sounds awesome. There must be some big Off road companies that could help out. Plenty from the North East would travel for this event. Surely we could get some big name drivers over the pond. Pidge and Neil Cragg must have some good contacts. I know they also race 8th scale but if you are as passionate about this as it sounds then you i think that this event will be awesome. Lets get it on!

[showtime]

names on the drivers list wont be a problem as a decent indoor meeting will sell itself :)
even if some of the big names drop out there will be plenty of willing drivers to take the places. so you are pretty much guaranteed a full entry :thumbsup:
its paying for the meeting & selling it to sponsors that will be the main issue!

[Lee]

Ok chaps, we have a potential venue, but......

We would need to supply the dirt:lol:, where do people get it from for supercross events, i assume they just rent it :confused:

[Nick Goodall]

Ok chaps, we have a potential venue, but......

We would need to supply the dirt:lol:, where do people get it from for supercross events, i assume they just rent it :confused:

I know someone who would certainly at least know this, but i tell you now mate it would not be cheap - moving that Qty of Dirt around then hiring the equipment to sculpt it is going to be ££££'s - Maybe getting an idea of budget in mind first would be an idea?

[Lee]

I know it wont be cheap Nick, i am just trying to weigh up the costs of filling it ourselves or going for a place like harper adams.

[Col]

In one of my old jobs we used to "rent" a driver and 18t wagon. He cost around £30 an hour plus fuel (this was a permanent contract so was cheap...) Speaking to him about this he reckons that an average tipper willmove around 20tons of soil per load. I also reckon that Harper Adams has about 1000tons of dirt in it? (I got a ton of top soil for my garden and it went amazingly not very far)
If you've got to supply and move the dirt to put into the venue (and excavators to remove it again) then there is no-way that this is comercially viable.

[b.r.m]

lee the brca have looked at all this for years dont think it has not been talked over, the problem is sponsors come back when you have at least £50,000 in sponsorship. i am not being a kill joy just realistic.

[wezzer]

I also reckon that Harper Adams has about 1000tons of dirt in it? :confused:
lol its got a few more than that mate !!! :thumbsup:
to be honest neo buggy did a meeting in holland ( dont quote me on that ) and had all his soil shipped in and it cost an absolute fortune , and also its got to be the correct kind of soil ! it cant be just top soil as it WILL break up even with the little 10th stuff scampering around on it :lol:

[lewisDXR]

little 10th stuff scampering around on it :lol:

oww Carefull Wez

If you was to say Harper was 1/2meter deep then there would be aprox 1000 tonnes of soil in there
But seen as we know it is over 3meters deep
I would say more like 5800 tonnes

The deeper the soil the higher moisture content you can keep in it

That’s why when you see these indoor events overseas
where they have imported 8” of soil it always seems to end up in a dodge the crater dust bowl :blush:

[Lee]

Thanks for the Tip Lewis, i had looked at the NEC and they were willing to help us but getting enough soil in would cost serious money.

Harper adams is looking favorite, i also tried getting in touch with an Indoor BMX arena in sheffield but it seems to have closed down :thumbdown: So now there is just a ware house full of perfect dirt and nobody to use it :drool::cry:

[craigosh]

Thanks for the Tip Lewis, i had looked at the NEC and they were willing to help us but getting enough soil in would cost serious money.

Harper adams is looking favorite, i also tried getting in touch with an Indoor BMX arena in sheffield but it seems to have closed down :thumbdown: So now there is just a ware house full of perfect dirt and nobody to use it :drool::cry:

Last i heard Lee that place in Sheffield only opens in the winter now, but could of closed totally i guess.. think Ape skatepark still has indoor trails, give them a bell. Might not want to change the layout though.

EDIT: seems Ape is shut now.. gutted