1 or 2 week ban on oil based additive

[Markygia]

Hi all

What do people think to banning oil based additives for a week or two as a trial to see if it repairs the track.

This is something they are doing at major events. Heard someone saying the carpet at a major event was ruined after just the first round so it was suggested to ban additive for next rounds to improve the grip.

Looking at the state of the track Friday I think we possibly may need to do the same. This was actually baldy seniors idea but I agree. I believe a few others were in agreement too.

Btw this hasn't been a problem before as we haven't had so many people running foams (via supastox etc) and the CS additive used on them.

A few of us have stopped running additive and not noticed any loss in grip.
But ofcourse, we don't need to do this if people object. I personally believe it will improve grip. And it will be an interesting test.

Who's in?

[RCMadShane]

We do have a few options…

1. Ban additive for a short time.

2. Flip the carpet

3. Clean the carpet

I will have a chat with the committee and see what the view is..

Unfortunately as has been discovered not many of our members use this forum so it will take a few weeks to implement whatever we want to do..

[ChrissieL]

If its consistant i.e. everyone does it then Im in

[Markygia]

All of those sound good

I don't think anyone should really mind so much as its an experiment to help everyone.
I'm thinking if anyone has objections it'll be just because they are argumentative. But if someone has any real and genuine concerns then we don't change anything.

[Markygia]

And yes. It would be everyone with oil based additives.

[Baldy Senior]

As Mark said I think it would be a good idea for a time. Looking at the carpet Friday it did look a bit rank! Turning the carpet over is not an option because the oil would end up on the wooden floor - not a good idea. With regards to cleaning it - how? I think it's beyond 'shake an vac'. As you are one of the first to get there Shane could you let everyone know and I will back you up when I arrive? I don't think anyone wants the bill for a new carpet and as long as nobody uses additive everyone will be 'in the same boat' with regards to grip. It might even add a bit of excitement into the evening, it's been a while since we had a 'drifting' class!!

[Frost]

I agree ban additive for abit. used some the other week felt i had to much grip with my gt12. To clean it wouldn't it have to be commercially cleaned then left to dry rolled out. Surely there isn't the space anywhere to clean it or give it enough time to dry out.

[LongRat]

I would be up for it. I only started using additive a few weeks back anyway.
Need to clarify what is meant by oil-based. Water would be allowed I would guess, but what about something like acetone? Ethanol? Possibly the best way would be to ban specific commercial products.

[Baldy Senior]

Do we have to be specific?
Obviously I don't know the technicalities of each type but I assume they all do the same thing ie help grip.
Just say no additive full stop.
I bow to your knowledge.

[RCMadShane]

I would go for the full ban no need to pick and choose and then its the same for everyone... Bring back Carpet dragons :thumbsup:

I have a VAX so can clean the carpet with that and we are currently looking for a maintance weekend to get the track sorted so i would join the two...

Happy to start next week but as has been proved this forum only connects to 1/4 to 1/3rd of our members so a jump may not go down well..

[Baldy1986]

I think that it should be an all-or-nothing technique regarding the additive, rather than allowing water but not oil based, or visa-versa.

I think that way it will firstly clear up quicker, and also not give those an advantage that may be using a particular type of additive.

I know that some people have been using additive every race (ie me) but others have not been using it at all and all seem to be the same speed, so shouldn't see any major advantages or changes.

What would be the long term plan? Or is that something to see when we know the effects of banning the additive? Maybe one week without additive every month?

[Gunter]

The only reason for saying oil based additives are that CS used on foam tyres is causing the problem but say lrp on rubber tyres is not the reason for the carpet going rank.

And I'm not sure what TC's will be like with no additive at all :-/ and oil based additives don't really work that well on rubber (in glos anyways) so you wouldn't want to use cs on rubber TC tyres anyways.

[Baldy1986]

So it is best to go for a ban on oil based additives (ie CS) only?

So people can continue to use water based additives (ie LRP) on their foam tyres if they wish?

(Just clarifying, not a moan lol!) (Sorry if this is repeating other points, just putting it in a concise way!!!)

[Gunter]

I'm not sure if I'm honest, might be just worth having no additive at all on foam (to make life easy) and only lrp/another water based additive on rubber tyres and that's it.

[Baldy1986]

Ok cool, ta

[Markygia]

I'm happy with not running any additive on foams as it will make little difference to grip.

However I have tried to run no additive on rubber on tc and its disastrous. The compound 28's didn't have quite as much grip as usual. This itself isn't the problem. The problem was the extra sliding around meant the tyres over heated. They then started squealing badly. And then where useless. Gave no grip and destroyed the rubber.

So we can't ban additive on tc as its counter productive. And will get expensive replacing destroyed tyres weekly. Also, the rubber is dry by time it goes onto the track so this isn't the problem (as years of tc have proved).

The problem has only recently come about because of the much higher number of foam and CS additive users.

So this was hence ban the oil based additives. the tc stuff aint oil. I'm happy for people to use the lrp additive on foams if they're not happy with using nothing. But hopefully nobody will mind going no additive at all on foams as the foams will drop the additive back on the track. Whereas rubber tyres don't as they go on the track dry.

[Markygia]

Would also like to say this would/should be on an experimental basis so if a few people think its not working (within reason) we could quickly stop the ban.

[ChrissieL]

I would go for the full ban no need to pick and choose and then its the same for everyone... Bring back Carpet dragons :thumbsup:

I have a VAX so can clean the carpet with that and we are currently looking for a maintance weekend to get the track sorted so i would join the two...

Happy to start next week but as has been proved this forum only connects to 1/4 to 1/3rd of our members so a jump may not go down well..

I'm happy to give the carpet a once over Friday

[grayslick]

NO PROBLEM WITH THIS see, we can all agree on something!

I dont tend to use additive because I've found my car finds enough grip by heat 2/final but this is probably because everyone else is plastering their rear tyres with it and oiling up the track during the night.

I'd worry about banning it for the TCs after reading what Mark is saying about ruining tyres without it. If the TCs are still putting down additive this could give enough grip on the racing line for the GT12 foams aswell, possibly?

I think it would be a good experiment.

I was vacuuming the carpet the other week and thought it looked thin and knackered in places. I'm guessing buying new carpet track is v costly?

[Markygia]

Who would love a new carpet?

Is that unrealistic mr treasurer?

[J'MM'N]

Turning the carpet over is certainly not an option, cleaning it would possibly help on appearance, but probably do nothing on extending its life.

The condition of the carpet itself is due to using water and oil based additives together. We all know what happens when we add these two together and this along with the foam and rubber particles is what has made the carpet so rank looking.

As to the wear and damage of the carpet itself, the additives aren't really the cause but the continuous use of racing on it. I'm guessing the carpet is probably nearing 15-20 years old and any carpet with week in, week out racing for that period of time would have similar amounts of wear if you used an additive or not.

Additives are an important thing, not only in grip but probably more so in getting the balance of the car right and this is probably more so in 1/12 pan cars of which we don't have many at the club. But with the amount of different sauces already soaked into the carpet then this probably doesn't bear much weight, as anyone running additive on a GT12 will notice after a couple of minutes into the race, that the cars handling changes due to all the sauce you pick up.

If one class is to use an additive, then it makes little difference if both classes use it and the answer is that you only use certain additives. Perhaps the club needs to decide on two or three makes of similar substance and only allow those, LRP/Nosram are the same. Banning additive for one class only, is not going to stop them putting it on before they get to the club, or applying other substances like lighter fluid.

So the answer long term is probably to use only certain additives chosen by the club or none at all. And as to the carpet I think it probably has a few years left in it, but it may well be worth thinking ahead in funding for the future.

As to the original subject of not using any additive on the track for a few weeks and see if it helps clean it, I'm all for experimenting and yes I think its worth a try.

Perhaps we should apply "Shake and Vac" to our tyres before each race and it'll save Shane cleaning:lol:

[RogerM]

No objection but how would you police this?

[Gunter]

Carpet was new for the new venue (I think) so is only around 5 years old.

Up until prop 6/12 months ago the carpet was hardly dis-coloured and totally fine it's just since having 25/35 gt12 soaked in oil additive that's caused the problem and with having such a small track doing over 30/35laps a race and 4 heats of gt12 and 3 rounds a night that's alot of laps.

Possibly the mixture isn't helping but personally with how much additive is transferred off rubber tyres to the carpet I don't see that being much of a contributing factor ALONGS no1 uses oil additives on TC's. running lrp on foam I not sure works very well and would just lay more additive into the carpet so I think. foams-total additive ban and rubber-water based only.

Policing would be easy with foams as you can feel it on them easily before the race but do we want to get into that? Could we not just have a general agreement? If not then I think someone could just feel the foams before anyone goes on track

[LongRat]

For the sake of the experiment I think there is no need for any policing. And it's pretty straightforward to see anyone using it if they do.

[RCMadShane]

Still along way to go but an idea is to only allow the following adatives:..

LRP 2
Nosram
Jack the Gripper TC2

All are water based..

Let me know what you think:thumbsup:

[ChrissieL]

I'm just for a total ban of additive for gt12

[Gunter]

For a few weeks i think we should go for a total ban to really try and get soem additive out of the carpet, but in the long run as others have said that might not be very easy as if someone is struggling they will just slap on abit of additive and jobs done and without having someone to check tyres before every run no1 will know.

Allowing specific types of additive that will help the carpet clean up is easier to police with spot checks if really required.

Apparently running just the additives above would really improve the carpet and stop the problem we are having but i do think we need to try without anything for a week or two to fast-track the carpet cleaning as it is abit soaked atm.

[Markygia]

Honestly, we cannot ban additives on TC. I have huge objections to that.
My whole proposal of a ban was a) for oil based, and;
b) not if anyone had strong objections

Anyhow, it sounds like the general consensus is that everyone is happy to ban oil based additives.

I suggest we just have a gentlemans agreement. We dont need to police it.

If anybody wants to 'cheat' and use additive when they've agreed not to, I cant see it happening but if anyone did continue to use the stuff then its quite morally low and not beneficial to the club. Let them do it if they clearly feel that strongly they have to use additive. But none-the-less, the fact that everyone else isnt using additive would mean the carpet should still benefit and hopefully return to normal.

I dont even think anyone would have much of an advantage by using additive when others arent. Like eveyone says, we've all tried it/ regularly go without anyway and so it shouldnt make a great deal of difference.

Also, happy to limit additives to brands that Shane has proposed.
I gotta admit i havent heard of one of them - but I'm sure it'll be cool.

I still have a lot of CS left - it doesnt last long anyway but if we all still have some left we could either set a date for a perm ban on oil additives (so gives people a chance to finish off their current supplies) or we just save the oil additives for other venues - i know i could probably use mine somewhere else (like maybe chippenham next year) - not sure if this applies to everyone though?

[RCMadShane]

We have to be reminded that very few of our members actually visit this forum so although I can try and catch people on Friday it may not get everyone…

As things stand the committee are happy to support a 2 week 100% ban on Additive which should also give us time to find the way forward.. Those who use this forum need to try an contact known members and cascade the information as far as possible so as not to shock people on Friday..

[Gunter]

This isnt for TC aswell is it?

Just ban on additive for them sponge tyre cars ;)

[ChrissieL]

This isnt for TC aswell is it?

Just ban on additive for them sponge tyre cars ;)

I hope not for TC!

[Markygia]

To clarify, this does not apply for TC (thank you shane!) :drool:

100% ban on use of addtive for stox. - I think this shoud be okay with everyone at the club as I dont think anyone who races stox minds. Certainly, in tems of a percentage, 100% of the stox users on this forum agree with a short trial ban.

And, from what I can tell, 100% of TC users agree we canot race TC without LRP/Nosram additive.

Thanks all

[Gunter]

100% ban for TC aswell apparently

[ChrissieL]

100% ban for TC aswell apparently

oh lordy lord - WTB Carpet Dragons....or not bother with the tc

[Markygia]

Okay new question?

what would all the members of this club prefer?

a) a club that listens to its members

b) a club that ignores the thoughts of its members and dictates to them!

Shane - I would seriously reconsider if you are suggesting we ban additive from TC too!

I think you need to remember this is not a business in which you are 100% share holder.

This is a club in which people choose to support and attend for thier enjoyment.

Sorry - strong words but I cannot believe after everyones post you would ignore and try an ultimate ban on additive - apologies if this isnt your call I'm just going on the evidence I have to hand.

I started this post to see if other users thought the same as me, and then if so we could act. And at every opportunity I said a decision should only be reached if its shared decision.

What is now apparently being suggested is very frustarting for me as it contradicts everything I have partioned for. What a waste of my time.

Personally, I feel TC cannot operate without additive - this view is shared by every other TC driver.

However, Stox we do not need additive. again a view shared.

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to ask Stox users not to use additive. BUT IT IS unreasonable to TELL TC users they have to go without.

As Gunter has said, years of TC use with additive hasnt caused the damage, the stox additive has. Therefore, for now I suggest only placing the burden of the ban on the Stox and see how that goes.

I'm not saying never ban addtive for TC - as if everyon agreed the track ultimately needed it then we'd all agree to ban TC additive too. BUt for now, lets see how the non-use of oil based additive does to the track.

Again, why act drastically and anger members when this is supposed to be for fun - you have the committment of others (stox users) thanks to the way I approached the subject - lets not exploit this and ban ALL additive use (yet)!

[Markygia]

Perhaps there has been some mis-communication issues...

"As things stand the committee are happy to support a 2 week 100% ban"

I (nor anybody else) has requested the 'support of a 2 week 100% ban' from the committee- so where has this come from?

We have asked for a gentlemans agreement that stox users stop using CS additive to SEE what this does for the carpet.

Who's in the Commmittee anyhow?

[J'MM'N]

I think at this time it's still in experimental mode and because this forum doesn't get to all the members, that we can't lay down a 100% ban of additives on either TC or Stox from this Friday, we don't want to be upsetting people on the night.

I think come Friday night it needs to be put across to the members what has been discussed here and that we would like to try this experiment. Of which we would Prefer members to try racing without additives for a couple of weeks. As this is only an experiment we don't want to alienate members that are against the idea, but looking at the feedback from this thread, I feel most will be happy to follow suit.

Also remember this is only an experiment and although some Stox drivers have found the track drivable without additive. This may not be the case a few weeks down the road and if car control becomes questioned and accidents start to rise, then we would need to rethink.

An ideal situation would be to see a total ban as the carpet is full of additive of which the foams will be picking up along with any fresh that is been put down. But I think this is impossible to enforce on such short notice.

Please note I'm putting this across as a Stox racer and not a TC driver and I think most Stox drivers will be willing to give it a try.

Markygia has put his concerns across for TC, which brings it's own issues running rubber tyres and I quite understand and don't have an answer for this, sorry. Also what is the position with pan cars, I know there are only a couple but they should be able to have their say as well.

[ChrissieL]

I would probably stop racing my Touring Car if not allowed to used additive. Stox, not a problem. TC needs the additive (and as previously mentioned doesnt seem to be the main problem). I could definately see a rise in TC breakages, incidents and the abuse of tyres. All good - if you're a RC shop.

However, I won't accept that risk and rather park it up than race.

[Markygia]

Completely agree with all of that.

If the ban is not working we should re-assess. It should be an experiment and a work- in process. i'm thinking it would be wise to not set in stone and specific regulations, just merely ask stox users to not use additive this friday and see what that does to the track. Bsed on those findings we can then decide next stage of action.

I would have thought the carpet will look much better by end of the night. We can then say lets do it again next week - and then we can maybe go to non-oil based additives for the future. We pretty much know water based additives do not harm the carpet (as years of TC use show). Just need to give it a test on foams for a few years.

I had forgotten about pan cars too - not sure how this impacts them or how many this even affects. They quickly get forgotten about as theyre not a popular recognised class at glos - so apologies for that.

One other point to note, the club is supposed to be running closely alongside BRCA rules. Can someone tell me, is additive banned at BRCA meetings? (rhetorical question - answer is No!) :thumbsup:

[J'MM'N]

Agreed the amount of breakages is going to accumulate, along with driving standards as the balance of car is going to be unpredictable and we don't want to see this.

At this time we can only do this as a gentleman's agreement, if you look back through this thread only a very small percentage of members have responded and we don't know how other would feel about this idea.

Is it possible to hold the experiment back for a couple of months when numbers are lower. Perhaps then those that run both classes only run Stox for a couple of weeks, which would reduce the number of TC on track during the experiment.

If there was to be a longer term ban, then could TC's run foams. I don't know as I haven't run a TC since the Yokomo YR4 some 20 years ago.

At the end of the day we don't wish to see broken cars, or loose members.

[RCMadShane]

The 100% ban for all cars would only be in place to assess what is going on.. We cannot have a case of ... "but he is using it" being screamed across the pits..

And I think two weeks will be fine.. I have been told that Additive only helps for the first Minuit and a half of a race so I am sure the pros can keep it together so the tyres can warm up..

Remember Ashley never wanted to allow Additive at the club and what we have today is the reason why..
I am hopeful that we can sort this and it won’t take longer than two weeks so no matter what come of it please be open minded and positive…
It is not beneficial to be spouting the “TC won’t work without” business because they will work and I admit yes a dam side harder but you are experts and should be able to cope for a couple of weeks.
People need to be given the time to sort an alternative and please remember too that many of the Foam drivers have stock of Additive which they may never be able to use so losing £12-£25 is a bit harder to swallow that struggling to get your car round a track for a couple of weeks.

So please let’s keep it together just for a couple of weeks.
:(

[J'MM'N]

I looked into additives the other day for the 1/12 section and that didn't really help our sutuation.

BRCA legal:

Corally TC2 (Jack the Gripper)
-Silver can - pink writing (13779)
-Black plastic bottle with sponge applicator (13742)

LRP Top Traction (Blue Factor)
-Round white bottle with sponge applicator (6501)

Orion Street Juice (TC Traction F1)
-Clear bottle - purple writing (44101)

Orion Foam Juice Formula
-Clear bottle – yellow writing (44105)

CS High Grip Tyre Conditioner
-Clear bottle - white label (C6400)
-Short tin can - white and yellow label (C6400)

Markus Mobers Speedtech Foam Liquid
-Silver can, white label

AME additive (via Chubbies Car Shack in the UK)
-Brown plastic bottle with yellow label

CS Speed Grip (CS6460)
-short tin can, white and yellow label

[Markygia]

Wrong Shane

I've tried no additive. It destroys the tyres. And they ain't cheap.
I'm not happy at all with JUST YOU having the say on how the club is run.

I don't believe it's solely your call. I won't be running additive on stox. But I will on tc. This won't change because of what you say alone.

If Steve believes we shouldn't run tc additive I'm far more likely to listen as he doesn't have any vested interest. I've warned before about how you approach decisions.

As I keep saying that decision is incredibly awful. Why are you upsetting all the tc drivers when you don't necessarily need to.

Look at the forum. People won't be saying 'but he's using blah blah.'
The stox drivers understand tc is a different kettle of fish.

And it's not like tc drivers are being hypocrites. They're all on here saying they won't use additive on the stox.

Would really like Steves input now.

O and burnt my lunch now-thanks a lot! :-)

[J'MM'N]

If the experiment is to be a 100% ban, then wouldn't it be better to do it at the end of the championship, either shorten the Winter by 2 weeks or start the Summer 2 weeks later.

Will give everyone prior notice of what's happening and in the meantime if people want to experiment with no additives then they can:)

[ChrissieL]

Shane, sadly I'm not one of those that rate myself as 80+ on the rc booking site so cant deem myself an expert. Also, we aren't just saying this for us but those Touring car drivers who are new to the class or 'developing'.

We all know that tyres are the most important part to the setup of a car. Even if I could 'keep it on the track', my enjoyment factor is severly decreased and you dont want a more unhappy Lovell on your hands (than you already have).

Obviously, it is up to the committee (and hopefully the members) but you will see a reduction in the amount of cars, and possibly the amount of users, turning up.

C.

[RCMadShane]

You are right Guys it is not my call and I will not agree unless the committee agrees so as of right now this very second nothing has been agreed by the committee and you are still having an input.

Correct I do not run the show and I will never implement something which has not been fully discussed and possibly voted on.. I do not see myself a Judge and Jury and have never intentionally made it out to be.

I will look at each case individually and this has been pointed out to be a very valid case.. unfortunately I do not see the ability to act as fast as some of you think possible.. like I said this forum only sees a quarter of our members so it is unfair to make decisions directly here..

[grayslick]

Oh no I can see another vote coming up!

Seriously, after the summer championship vote, if you're going to ask club members to vote on this, please please make sure they realise the implications of what they are doing. I can well imagine there are enough Supastox drivers that might just say "Yes - ban it" without realising the implications for TCs.

This thread is somewhat comical. Mark makes a interesting suggestion about possibly banning oil based additive in order to help preserve the life of the carpet. Every Supastox driver on this forum seems cool with that but it has somehow manifested into an idea to suggest temporarily ban additive all together on all cars.

How did that happen? :o

I genuinely think we should just close down this forum, its not doing us any good.

[RCMadShane]

I have never said to ban Additive permanently and that would be a step back into the dark ages.. this thread was for a 2 week ban and really only that

[Markygia]

Grayslick - i completely agree. It went from a suggestion I made to complete unnecessary uproar.

Now we have gone back to 'nothing is going to happen this friday' - Can i go back to the very start of this thread again! I again, politely request to see whos on-board for not using oil based additive this week?

Basically -if we ignore Shanes input (hahaha - sorry Shane) what does everyone think to avoiding use of additive to see what it does?

As J'MM'N says who's up for a gentlemans agreement to not use additive this week?

I suppose I had better say (to avoid previous consequences) this post is not for the official attention of the "committee" - so therefore UNNOFFICIALLY who would still like to partake in this experiment?

If we can get most users on board (including people on the night who aint on this forum) then I reckon we can see some positive imporvements to the carpet. - and then hopefully we willl not need to ban additive - making all this fuss unnecessary.

there - i think (via Grayslick) we've pulled this thread back on track - back to where I initially started lol

[RCMadShane]

LOL.. the ability to read all gone to pot :woot:

Just for my 2p worth.. i have £25 worth of CS to use up before it "MAY" get banned.

Guess where my vote is :thumbsup:

[grayslick]

Hmmm, I've got 2 brand new pots of it in my pit box too, ebay here I come.

I'm sure you could get most GT12 drivers to stop using it from Fri onwards for a couple of weeks, I think everyone can see the carpet is getting messy.

Obviously there will be some that ignore and some that have plastered their tyres beforehand but at least it will seriously reduce the amount that is going on the track so we would see if it makes any difference.

[J'MM'N]

What is comical is that Mark comes up with an idea 4 days ago and its implemented by Friday.

I think Mark's idea is feasible and worth a try, I also think it should be a two week experiment and possibly a 100% ban for those two weeks, sorry TC guys but a 100% ban would probably give us a better idea of carpet condition and a base to start from.

But if we are going to take this route, then can we first discuss it at the club and come up with a date in the near future when it would be feasible to do it.

I know it would be difficult for everyone to adjust to this situation especially TC, but if it is forward planned at least people will know what's going on. After the two weeks we will have a much better idea on weather it is giving any benefit to the track and what effect it has on the driving and we can then reconsider what route we take from there. Possibly reintroduce additives to TC and try Stox with no additives for a further week or two.

Personally I think it will have an ill effect on rubber tyres, but also as the additive levels come down in the carpet it will also effect foam tyres and stox drivers may well have to change to different shore tyres.

In the meantime carry on as his until a decision has been made and if people want to experiment with no additive then they can, will probably reduce chunking as well.

This is only suggestions as I don't have the answers, but I guess until we try it nobody does.

[J'MM'N]

Just catching up on replies after typing my last.

I'm willing to give it a go and all you can do is ask the rest of the club on Friday. If you get a 50% reduction that can only be beneficial and if the non additive GT12's are still winning then others may follow:thumbsup:

[Markygia]

I previously suggested (outside this forum) that we stop using CS stuff for a couple of weeks to see what it does. if it repairs carpet, then we can eventually go back to using it again knowing that when necessary we can stop using it for short periods to bring carpet back to life.

But, what we need to do is see what happens first. all this is hypothetical as no one seems to know exactly what will happen.

Hence this should be an ongoing experiment!

[Markygia]

J'MM'N - your suggestion is very valid/reasonable.

This was all I was looking for (from our committee - so sorry if we're all jumping the gun)

I dont mind banning addiitve altogether as long as it isnt during this champs. A set date in the future is aye okay with me. I'll either run some really old tyres or something completely different. or rest my TC even.

if it needs to be done, it needs to be done. I still think we'll all be in a much better position to decide after friday once we have lessended the amount of CS additive down and seen the results. (even if use is only down by 50% as you mention -it will all help)

Everything now should just be at the idea's stage. perhaps thats where the confusion is. I thought shane was trying to implement a 100 % this friday? but he later says he needs to discuss with committee...

[Baldy1986]

For those that have not seen the website, this is the current situation:

"In recent weeks the condition of the carpet has deteriorated significantly due to the increased additives being laid down in part by the popularity of the GT12 class. The carpet is arguably the most important component of racing at Gloucester. It is essential that the club preserve the condition of the carpet.
At the recent 12th world championship they had a similar problem, the mixture of water based additives and oil based creates a nasty slime that reduces grip for all classes and stays soaked into the carpet. Oil based additives don't evaporate the same as water based additives so that the carpet stays soaked week after week and over time becomes more and more soaked. An important announcement will be made at club Friday 22nd March, watch this space for updates....."

Therefore, continue as normal tonight, unless drivers decide to have a 'gentleman's agreement'. That is up to those involved.

As stated, watch this/these space(s) for updates.

[J'MM'N]

Any update on last week announcement, want to go and buy some additive for the car but don't know what ones are now allowed.

Cheers.

[Gunter]

As quoted by Shane on page 2......


'''Still along way to go but an idea is to only allow the following adatives:..

LRP 2
Nosram
Jack the Gripper TC2

All are water based..''''

Use these and you will be fine and even after 1 week not using CS there were areas looking lighter in the acceleration zones :-)

[J'MM'N]

Thanks, will order some.

Good to hear the carpet is looking healthier.

[RogerM]

Just read the website and want to be clear about somethings ......

On the website it says that oil based additives will be banned for the next championship too ... is this correct?

If so what is the best choice of water based additive to use on foams?

Has anybody tried putting water based additives on foams that have had oil based additive previously and if so what was the effect?

What happens when you go to a different venue and need to be on oil based additives again, are the tires ok with that?

The last question is why is it that Gloucester has an issue and other clubs do (not a dig, genuine question) or do other clubs have the same issue?

How are you going to deal with people coming from other clubs that only have oil based additives?

As has happened every time so far with Gloucester club I've just got to the point of having sorted a car out for a class when the game changes ....
I really enjoy GT12 but I find myself sitting here thinking of selling it all up :(

[Gunter]

Yep water based additives only from new champ onwards to help track life span basically.

The best water based additive for foam is jack the gripper tc2 we believe but lrp carpet works also and is easy. We have all gone from using cs to lrp and it's fine no problems with the foam changing from additive to additive but we did clean the foams with brake cleaner (spray some on cloth a d wipe around). This helped pull out some the oil residue.

Gloucester are having this problem due to the larger number of gt12's on such a small track so regular. If you think we have around 30 cars doing 30 laps each, each round.... That's alot of times foam goes across the same patch of carpet laying in the oil making it so black.

If you take other clubs with maybe 15 gt12 doing 25 laps? That's less then half what we getting. I've also been told brca 12th events also having same problem and are looking at doing the same thing, worlds and euro events have been spoilt by the carpet turning Into a slime but the afternoon so it's a well know problem at the min.

The foams seem not to mind switching from oil to water but we do clean them in between.

Additive is only £9 for 125ml (best value additive out there) which isn't alot to try save the club thousands in new carpet.

[LongRat]

Guys, can you please confirm that this is the fluid being used:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LRP-Top-Grip-Carpet-3-Rubber-Tyre-Additive-NEW-/350760180192?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item51aaef99e0

If so I'll get some. Otherwise, let's see some links to the right stuff. Cheers.

[Baldy1986]

Yep that's the one. I think that is the one Mark has been using, and seems to be one of the best.

[Markygia]

or there is a newer option- LRP 3

Not sure if there is much difference but if there is an advantage I would say the LRP 3 is slightly better on foams (if at all)

http://www.rccarshop.co.uk/index.php/wheels-tyres/tyre-additive/lrp65012-lrp-top-grip-carpet-3-tyre-additive.html

[LongRat]

Sweet, I got the 3 version of the stuff.
Hopefully it goes well on trizzack.

[LongRat]

Ok after running the LRP 3 this week I found it to be the best I have ever used. Didn't seem like the grip level reduced at all over a run, which it used to a lot with the CS I was using before. Don't think you can go far wrong with this stuff!

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Spider Grip is being trialed at the Chesterfield Summer Shoot Outs on May 19th.

Costs more but it's a bigger tin ;)

http://www.gt12.co.uk/2013/04/new-brca-approved-gt12-additive.html

[Gunter]

Just to make it clear spider grip green is oil based so will NOT be allowed at Gloucester