DHL - estimated freight charges

[jimmy]

Customs charges - watch out for DHL. I got a customs bill 1 month after recieving an item, a cheap camera flash off ebay from china, and because it had no price for shipping on it (probably cost £6-£8) they decided it cost £83.80 to post.
I called twice and spent ages on the phone - only to get no result or find out what was going on.

I had also been charged some extra VAT because I am a company they said - because the seller had used my ebay name and not my real name.

I got told I had to get some exhaustive proof of the actual cost of shipping and the item itself, from the seller in China and provide this within 48 hours.

I basically told them to shove it and that I was retroactively denying acceptance of the parcel. I told them they could come round and take the flash and I will buy another.

HMRC said it was 100% DHL and there was no problem with customs. How on earth can DHL value the freight of a small box as £83.80? What sort of crack are they smoking.

Not heard anything since early last week from DHL about it. Not sure if they will try to pursue me for the money they stupidly paid to HMRC on 'my' behalf - but there's no way I am jumping through the crazy hoops they want me to. I don't mind paying the vat and duty on an item but when its on ebay with free shipping how the blummin heck am I supposed to know how much it cost or indeed why should I get a written and signed letter from the seller to show the actual cost they paid. This isn't my job.

I've never heard of this before - I've never had it before but apparently it does go on. I wonder if they thought because I'm a company (I'm not) that I would just pay it and not care.
The fact their postage estimate is vastly more than the item including shipping didn't seem to bother them.

Just something that I thought I'd share since this took me by surprise.

[neallewis]

I suspect it's speculative invoicing...
Basically tell them to sing for their money. Don't pay them anything. If they have mistakenly paid a "random" amount of duty on your behalf, it's their loss.

They will "suspend your account" (which you may not even have) and send you letters demanding payment, which they may sell onto a debt collector or just write off after a year of sending you letters. Just ignore them, it will go away.
Most of their customs charge is actually their handling fee, with a tiny proportion in actual VAT/Duty. It's their error. Refer them back to the shipper, who actually paid them for the delivery service, and offer to provide proof of the actual cost of the item, which is sounds like you have.

I had a similar issue with FedEx who handled a warranty replacement gopro camera. It was a "no cost" replacement camera handled by GoPro in the US, though bought and paid for here (duty already paid). When they shipped it back to me it got held up in customs and the demanded I paid the duty on this camera I was importing. After battles with their customer (dis)service department and assurances from Gopro that it was a no-cost replacement camera they finally shipped it to me. They then proceeded to bombard me with threatening letters demanding payment of the customs duty and VAT and their handling charges, as I had imported a new camera. I ignored it for a bit, then a very very strongly worded letter with proof of the no cost warranty replacement made it all stop.

They are the shipping handler, you don't owe the HMRC anything, if you already have the item. It's their mistake and their loss.
I do wonder what will happen if someone ships something to you via DHL again however?

[jimmy]

I got something today - and I'm sure I will get more. If they don't deliver they surely are not fulfilling their obligation. I will try to avoid DHL from now on but sometimes you can't choose - I wont jump through the crazy hoops or spend endless hours on this like I've already done. I told them that if they want they can come get the flash.

I did also tell them I would use my artistic skills to create a factual piss-take of their stupidity and incompetence if they pursued it. Is that a threat? lol.

Thanks mate - I will indeed ignore them.

[steve-thebabystore]

Hi jimmy, still having an issue with DHL for an 'invoice' from 3 years ago, keep the letters even though its crap they keep sending them and you can burn them in the winter to keep warm!

[jimmy]

hahaha - awesome. The number of tv licencing letters I have on my table here must be about 30. When we moved I think I threw all the old ones away otherwise we'd have a hundred or so.
Yes I have technically two TV's in the house, yes I have 'cable' (only for internet) and yes I have a satellite dish. But neither of my TV's have ever been used for watching TV.

So many people are fooled into thinking they have to pay because they own a phone or a computer which 'might' be used to watch live TV - and intimidated by letters saying they will come to check and interview you under caution! lol.

I can interview someone under caution - it's just made up to scare people. Generally the people who don't pay are the ones that probably do watch TV and are not quite wise enough to know the law. Never tell them your name, never ask them to stop sending letters, if they ever come round just close the door as you are not obliged to let them in even with police presence. They have no right to access your property even with so-called court order. It's not a criminal offense, it's a civil matter, until it's proven. And there is no way for them to do that without access to your property.

All convictions for TV tax evasion are from confessions people blurt out because they are too naive to shut up. I recently bought a TV soley to use as a second monitor on my computer. It's not hooked up to anything else, I an not sure if companies are still obliged to inform the BBC when someone has bought a TV but I very much hope so.


The conversation might go a bit like this:
Hello, we believe you've bought a new tv, can I have your name please?
THE OCCUPIER

Right, well, so you admit you bought a TV - so why don't you have a license.
I'm sorry but could I have your ID please so I can go inside and call to make sure you are who you claim to be?

Sure, here it is.
Wazz (that means throw like a playing card style) like a nutter as far as you possibly can into some big hedge.
Sorry I have tourettes you badgerfucker.

Close door.


I loath the BBC for 10 years of harassment. Vicky working in the community with old and vulnerable people knows people who do not even have a TV that have paid the tax just because they are so scared of getting someone coming into their house and looking through everything. This makes me sick and is wholly controlled by the BBC.

[jimmy]

I have spoken with Lorraine just now in our Duty & VAT team and she has advised that in order for us to work on this we would need an amended commercial invoice not a pro forma invoice showing the amount paid for the goods and freight.





I don't have these Nick and I wouldn't know how to go about getting them. I have spoken with HMRC just now and the chap said you work to guidelines - so a small box with a relatively cheap flash inside you've managed to price up as £83.80 shipping. How this conclusion and how your guidelines work I'm not sure but I would expect to ship a live elephant for that amount.

HMRC informed me that it's DHL that my issue is with - not Customs. I signed for the item without notice of your crazy charges. Yes I can pay it and then dispute it with HMRC and get some tax back, or I can simply deal with DHL about the payment. HMRC were surprised by the figure you calculated.

I'm absolutely not interested in jumping through your hoops - why don't YOU contact the seller / shipping agent or whomever to figure the true cost - why do I have to do this to rectify your vast miscalculation.

I have work to do and this is a total waste of time - I can either refuse to pay the charge in which case I am in dispute with DHL and their GROSS miscalculation which I will proudly mock using my fine artistic talents, or I can retrospectively refuse to accept the item which I signed for but did not agree to the incorrect customs charges. If I had been presented with this information at the time, I would have refused the item and it would have been returned to sender and I could have purchased a different flash and hope such a unique error wouldn't occur again.

Sadly that time of course has passed - refusing the obscenely over-the-top freight estimation and getting my money back from the seller so I didn't have all this hassle with DHL. What I can do is tell you that I'm refusing it NOW - and you are free to pick it up. Either return it to whomever or do with it as you will. But I am not spending hours of my time to sort out an obvious error that DHL made. If you'd been realistic, any person in their right mind knows that a small box doesn't cost £83.80 to ship unless it's some super global express, which it wasn't - then we'd all be happy and I'd pay a small customs charge happily. I don't agree with how you've charged me without notice so I couldn't refuse the item, I don't enjoy the fact it's taken over 2 weeks to get a response. I don't like being told I need to do your work when I have my own to do. And all this for a cheap chinese flash.

I have no dispute with HMRC and that was made clear to me. My dispute is with the people who foolishly grossly over-cooked the freight charges and paid them on my behalf without informing me. I have no idea if DHL has a process for refusing items and I'm fairly certain that it doesn't apply retrospectively when a month after receiving the item I'm presented with an incorrect customs charge. I don't know who signed for this or what drugs they were on - maybe they were looking at a bigger box marked 'small elephant' and there was a mix up - but no one with any common sense would agree that the freight charge you estimated was anything other than grossly incorrect for a regular small boxed item.

So to sum up - I'm not paying the charges. All I can do is give you the item for you to destroy (hey, it's a cheap chinese flash - no big deal) so you may regain charges paid to HMRC on my behalf which you had no right to do given the gross miscalculation.

Where we go from here I'm not sure but beware the freelance artist! ;)

All the best,
Jimmy Storey

[bodgit]

Re your tv if they come round again

aX17p6TE7V0

[bodgit]

As for the lens a print out from your paypal details will prove amount paid and postage costs if that helps. If they do take it charge them for it first see how they react to that.

[jimmy]

Sadly this won't prove anything since the item had shipping included in the price - so I have no way to prove any shipping cost. Imagine asking someone in the UK for that information a couple of months after buying something - then imagine asking someone in China. :lol:

DHL are asking the impossible - for me to prove the cost of something I didn't pay for directly. That's simply impossible.

[jimmy]

Now I work from home I am very much hoping they come knocking again. They've been once in 3 years I think. And we weren't in.

[jimmy]

Got another letter from DHL, so emailed them a response reminding them that all along I've been asking where this £83.80 freight estimation came from..... This is what they finally replied to me.



The agreed rate for shipments being imported from Hong Kong is a base rate of £66.56 plus £8.62 per kilo.

In view of the above I can confirm that the calculation of the freight value on your shipment is:

£66.56 + (2 kilos x £8.62) £17.24 = Total Freight Value £66.56 + £17.24 = £83.80


I doubt it cost more than 1/10th of this price to ship - so what's going on here?

[andys]

Holy Crap Jimmy - Read it all - sounds dodgy ?

Is it a scam - DHL / someone selling cheap gear then pulling in the charges. Can't believe they paid customes all that coin on a hunch.

Also - the £60 odd notes - flat rate, what the hell is that, so if you post a letter with DHL you are in for £60+ straight away.

Also - why would the seller use DHL for a cheap item - does not make any sense.

[Benh]

Got another letter from DHL, so emailed them a response reminding them that all along I've been asking where this £83.80 freight estimation came from..... This is what they finally replied to me.



The agreed rate for shipments being imported from Hong Kong is a base rate of £66.56 plus £8.62 per kilo.

In view of the above I can confirm that the calculation of the freight value on your shipment is:

£66.56 + (2 kilos x £8.62) £17.24 = Total Freight Value £66.56 + £17.24 = £83.80


I doubt it cost more than 1/10th of this price to ship - so what's going on here?

2kg!? Was this a flash from 1875 complete with powder?

I'm interested to know which parties 'agreed' the rates. I had a 'customs charge' of £10 on an item, with £10 admin for DHL. This was retrospectively charged. I was too busy, paid it and moved on.

I was convinced it was bullpong, but didnt have the time to fight it. I now only use UPS.

[DCM]

Different companies work in different ways, Parcel Farce won't release your parcel for delivery till you pay their handling fee and customs fee. DHL has obviously fast tracked the parcel through and have cocked up. But not willing to admit they have, insist on the fact that you are telling fibs and they are the ones in the right.