Lipo Postage Restrictions

[James]

I believe as of the beginning of July you now cannot send used or new lipos that are not attached to an electrical device through the post office.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone know how business are dealing with this?

[Aire valley]

Wow....if that's so it is a mega blow for all RC users everywhere.. Not to mention all battery suppliers .. :confused: Where did you see this James ? I haven't seen it mentioned on any model shop website..

[bigt]

How they gonna police it ? Gonna have to ignore the rules on this I think

[Lee24h]

Lets see people a lipo contected to a speedo in the post as soon as the wires touch there will be burnt out post vans littering the country

[PaulRotheram]

You have to declare what you are posting when at the post office, if you refuse to declare the innards they destroy the package.

Not sure how the r/c community will get around it - unless its only Royal Snail doing it.

[bigt]

So a little white lie should get around it then "toy car parts " honest

[mattr]

It's only royal mail so far.

[eb4_boy]

Royal Mail are the ones that do not allow for it. Due to this courier's are having to be used even if just for one lipo pack.

[jaank]

I think there are been various lipo postage restrictions due to some planes burning down because of the batteries altrough I dont remember any permanent restrictions.

[James]

Specific details here:

http://www.royalmail.com/business/help-and-support/tell-me-about-restricted-goods

[VintageRacer]

Here is a detailed document (James beat me to it!).

http://www.royalmail.com/sites/default/files/DangerousGoods_BusinessCustomerBooklet_July2013_0. pdf

Oddly, you are allowed to send with electronic goods even if not connected!

Lithium batteries are:
"Prohibited when sent on their own in the domestic and international post.

Allowed in UK and international post when contained in a device* but are
prohibited in Business Response, FreepostTM, PacketpostTM and PacketsortTM

Allowed in UK post when sent with a device* but are prohibited in Royal
Mail Tracked Returns®, Business Response, FreepostTM and all variants of
PacketpostTM and PacketsortTM"

[mattr]

I think there are been various lipo postage restrictions due to some planes burning down because of the batteries altrough I dont remember any permanent restrictions.funny that, I was actually reading the crash report for that one the other day. Just one plane, but 5 or 6 packing crates full of (badly package) lipos.

I'll see if I can find a link.

[mattr]

http://pilotisnotafourletterword.blogspot.se/2013/08/ups-b744f-uae-final-report.html

[Lee24h]

Well that cant be just rc nearly anyting electric uses lipo technology nowadays look at the prius if them cells went it ild tear a plane in half

[SlowOne]

The plug-in hybrid Prius has Li-ion, the rest have NiMh. The Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt have Li-ion so best not to park next to them...!! :D

The energy density of those cells is less than the ones we use, so that helps. They don't cycle them from fully charged to fully discharged like we do so they can prolong the life of the battery. And you can't order them through the post! :lol:

I wonder why most of the mail order shops in the UK continue to offer Li-Pos if this is the rules? Strange...

[mattr]

Most of the hybrid cars contain the cells in what would best be described as a blast chamber. 20 kilos of cells and control system. 40 kilos of armour........ And the rest!

[Aire valley]

Mmmm..reading that dangerous goods document... I may be wrong but it refers to Lithium metal and Lithium ion batteries.....:confused: Can't see a reference to lithium polymer batteries. !! So , maybe no need to panic...:)

[KRob]

It is a massive ball-ache and from a distributor point of view, if we send Li-po's they have to go courier. Anything we do that might have a Li-po in is almost certainly courier size/cost anyway.
It's the same for bringing them the country so I'm pretty certain it's not just a Royal Mail in the UK directive.
I am aware of at least two packages (not ours) that have been destroyed by the post office due to the content.

[burgie]

You have to declare what you are posting when at the post office, if you refuse to declare the innards they destroy the package.

Not sure how the r/c community will get around it - unless its only Royal Snail doing it.

Never had to declare specific contents of any packet I have sent through Royal Mail or other courier Nothing more than a declaration of the value of the item (s) being posted or maybe a brief description, i.e. toy car parts.

[andy-aj]

I sent some lipo's to someone about a year ago, 2 seperate recorded delivery parcels. 1 parcel arrived, and 1 parcel missing. When I tried to make the claim, Royal mail confirmed that only 1 parcel had been delivered, but refused to uphold my claim because the lipo batteries were prohibited from being sent. So this is not a new restriction.

[SlowOne]

Mmmm..reading that dangerous goods document... I may be wrong but it refers to Lithium metal and Lithium ion batteries.....:confused: Can't see a reference to lithium polymer batteries. !! So , maybe no need to panic...:)Lithium-ion refers to the technology of the battery. In this technology, lithium ions move from the anode to the cathode during discharge and back when charging.

In Lithium-ion polymer batteries, the difference is that the lithium salt electrolyte is held on a solid polymer, and not in an organic solvent. The advantage is that Li (Lithium-ion) Po (polymer) batteries are cheaper to make, adaptable to lots of different packaging shapes and are more rugged and reliable. The disadvantage is that LiPo batteries hold less energy than a pure LiOn battery. But the principle remains the the lithium technology is in use.

The technology is the same, they are in the same category and they are still not allowed under IATA and Post Office rules. HTH :)

[neiloliver]

The likes of DHL will ship Lithium ion batteries, excepted from dangerous good regulation as long as the batteries are each <100Wh, have been tested to the UN T1-T8 tests and they are packaged / labelled correctly. I think the maximum number of batteries per package is two but I need to confirm that. The person packaging the batteries must receive adequate training.

Increased transportation regulation for batteries is something we have to live with and no-one should try and falsify as shipping declaration - people go to jail and receive large fines every year for this offence. It is taken very seriously, especially in the US.

As for Lithium ion polymer cells being more rugged and cheaper to make, this is simply not true, The cost per Wh for pouch type Lithium ion polymer is far higher than that for prismatic and cylindrical cells and they are far more prone to damage.

N

[bodgit]

As in post 20 where does the buyer stand if Royal mail open the package and destroy them. As the poster says they would not refund the seller or buyer. The seller has had the cash, does the buyer accept the risk and accept he cant claim his cash back from the seller.

[terry.sc]

If the buyer doesn't receive the goods then it is the seller is the one out of pocket. If you managed to buy some lipos from Amazon, they sent it by post and the post office destroyed the package you would expect to be reimbursed as it was Amazons responsibility to get the lipos to you. The same with selling second hand lipos, it's the sellers responsibility to deliver the goods paid for.

Offer the option of using a courier or the post office, pointing out that the post office might destroy the lipos, and any sensible buyer should go for the extra cost of a courier. Of course if the post office did destroy the package there aren't many buyers who will just shrug it off as their loss, the ones who will still demand their money back will usually be the same ones who would cheap out on the postage in the first place, so good luck in resolving it.

[jaank]

I Bought a lipo from the ebay and got it shipped to Estonia with Royal Mail.
Everything worked out great.