Junior Drivers + EOS Locations.....

[Jonesy]

I'm not sure of the exact figures from the Junior Finals over the weekend but there were less than 10 in both classes on both days (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

To me this seems like our sport / hobby may have a bleak future despite numbers being at record highs over the last few years.

According to Southports website results from the same weekend as Eastrax (last weekend), they had 11 Juniors racing at a club meeting!!

When I started racing I had to qualify for the Junior Finals and remember travelling down to West London Model Car Club (1994 - I think) as a North West Reserve and not being allowed to race, along with other years when I didn't even make the event! I just feel that we need to look at bringing more youngsters in and getting them up to a competitive level. (That sentence is by no mean a dig at the Junior Drivers who made the journey to Eastrax)

I'm not saying Eastrax didn't deserve to host a National event because they produced the goods over the weekend and I'd be more than happy to go back there for a Full National next year BUT... The EOS finals need to be in a location where it is easy (easier) for all to get too IMO.

Now I know there are going to be pros and cons to this, Scotland were represented by Alan Hart only as an example over the weekend, and I'm sure if the F2s were in a more Northern location then we may have dropped some drivers who were more local etc etc...

I'm not sure what the solution is and with most things in life you are not going to please everyone.

Any ideas or does everyone feel the section will be ok in years to come??

[Mrs oOple]

I think it is great that the hobby has been thriving at National level, but clubs still seem to be suffering. I think that perhaps the best way to draw in the new champs is to promote the hobby at club level. Maybe raise awareness in schools or social clubs. Maybe have more local competitions aimed at the younger racers, give them more chances to win prizes throughout the year.

[bigred5765]

or even more incentives to race.

[Jonesy]

or even more incentives to race.

That's a tough one though...

When I started, EVERYBODY got a trophy at the end of a meeting but after getting 40-50 trophies you start to get bored of that and only keep the odd one where you have a cracking result!

You can then offer incentives for the overall winners and no young kid starting out is going to win so that is also a no go (It would be good for your regualr national champions, Pidge, Ellis, Neil etc...)

I don't know what incentives you could offer.....

I'm sure I've been to Model Shop sponcered events where vouchers or prizes have been given to the winners of every final, maybe that would work although I also appriciate that model shops can not afford to part with 'free' merchandise.

[niggs98]

perhaps there could be incentives for the top none sponsered driver in each class at the EOS finals to pick up a b team drive from one of the big importers and have a different one sponser it each year,

more suport from the teams as well would be nice although having said that there was support from all the teams this year with notable top drivers there in the form of bradders, mossy, cockerill,yardy, preddy, sleigh, doughty and others all willing to help people of all ages and abilties which was really nice to see and gave massive encouragement, has been great to see all the thanks given from various racers at the event for the help given.

i know of clubs who have large amounts of juniours who just arnt prepared to even travel 20 miles to a regional let alone 3+ hours to an end of season finals, yet there are others who will travel to the end of the world for it, why is there such a marked change between regions in that way i dont know but its something we need to work on or there will be no next craggy or ellis to carry the uk mantle on.

anyone have anyother ideas as to how to turn this problem around :(

[Nick Goodall]

I still think the main problem is at Club & Regional level - Nationals being over subscribed every year looks great ont he surface but really is a problem as it's the only meetings people seem to want to do.

I think you should have to qualify to do nationals! I know you have to qualify for EOS finals but if you were to make people have to do regionals to get in for Nat's you'd raise the overall standard of Nationals but more importantly give clubs a far better chance of surviving due to having a guaranteed turnout at Regionals!

When i was racing at top level i'd still attend regionals as it was great practise and we used to still get really good drivers turning up - Even as we thought it was dying off a bit we'd still get 50-60 people at a Regional which was a great days racing without the stress of it being a national.

The way it's going there will only be around 8 clubs that can afford to keep going let alone have the interest to want to get up early and put all the effort into track maintenance / improvements.

[Nick Goodall]

Just to elaborate on what i was suggesting above, you could do the following format.

For example:

F1's for 2008 all gain automatic entry into BRCA 2009 1/10th National Series (So there's your first 40 drivers for 2 & 4wd)

Regionals could start earlier, i.e March and be run as a 3 round series with 2 to count towards National qualifying scores.

1 Regional run on the same date in each region say 1st March, 1st April and 1st May (again for example)!

I don't know how many regions there are, but you'd have to allow for a Percentage based on the amount of attendee's as it wouldn't be fair to say Top 10 from each region when some regions only get 8 people turn up! So say the top 10% qualify to compete at the Nationals.

I think Nationals should be limited to 100 people per class, allowing for more run time on the day (which seems to be an issue with a lot of people, even with 2 practise rounds it seems you don't get enough track time) - So how about 3 x 4min practise sessions followed by 4 rounds of qualifying and finals to continue as they are now with 3 Legged A finals.

When it comes to Regionals i think it would work if F2's are automatically seeded in their region to go into the top heats, followed by F3's, F4's and so on.

This allows for similar racing to Nationals and you could introduce a more National like format with timed practise, 4 rounds of qualifying and then finals.

This could allow you to then run say just 4 Nationals to allow room for Euro's and Worlds, and they could be run June, July, Aug and Sept.

I know this probably isn't ideal but it's just an idea :-)

I just think the only way you're going to notice any changes are to dramatically shake up the current system and accept that it needs to change!

If it doesn't work, it's easy enough to go back to normal for the following year so why not give it a go one year :)

There could also be an incentive for F1's to compete at Regionals as practise for the upcoming nat's by seeding them for the Top heats at Nat's - so for instance the Top F1 from each region automatically goes into Top heat (Heat 10) and so on..... I'm sure there would be a way to get the F1's racing at regionals anyway but this was just another idea i had.

[JCJC]

Don't forget its a big investment for juniors (and parents) time and money, soon as racers are working they can commit there own money and time, if they want to drop it as a hobby they can. Jordan's mates are in the local footy teams and stuff but they have nothing like kit to the value of our stuff, and most of its secondhand and iffy.
We have done the juniors for the last few years, always a low attendance, this year we were on holiday - well its school holidays - when else can we go, but just doing regionals, and the odd club meeting is a lot of time, 2009 is exams, so less time for racing. (but we would still like to do the juniors in 2009 if we can).

[Lee]

I like that idea nick, like you say its not perfect but it has a good base to work from, Less nats would encourage more regionals. the other thing we dont have in the summer for off road is a distributor/manufacturer run series. i know time is tight for meetings in the summer but prizes attract kids.

Schuey did it in TC so that the winner of each final get put into a raffle and they are drawn at the end and the driver chooses a gift, there were options of top end speedo`s and cars etc.

Factory drivers were not put into the raffle regardless of if they won the meeting, it went to the next highest placed non sponsored driver.

[Nick Goodall]

I like that idea nick, like you say its not perfect but it has a good base to work from, Less nats would encourage more regionals. the other thing we dont have in the summer for off road is a distributor/manufacturer run series. i know time is tight for meetings in the summer but prizes attract kids.

Schuey did it in TC so that the winner of each final get put into a raffle and they are drawn at the end and the driver chooses a gift, there were options of top end speedo`s and cars etc.

Factory drivers were not put into the raffle regardless of if they won the meeting, it went to the next highest placed non sponsored driver.

Yeah i just think the key thing is that it needs a major change to what we've all got so used to and comfortable with otherwise it's just not going to happen for us.

It's nothing against anyone but Nationals are still generally full of the same faces that have been doing them for 5 / 10 years plus which is great for keeping it competitive but it's in danger of becoming very enclosed and not really providing room for new blood to come up through.

Club racing and Regionals need to be where the focus is - I don't know the best way to do it but what i've said above is certainly a start to what i think would help?

[Kopite]

totally agree with Nick on this point, and always have done :)

[bigred5765]

what about!
f1's get in auto, f2 from nats the year before also, f2-f5 at regional pre qualify from the year before at regional level and say top ten from each region, then if theres any gaps, first come first served,there the incentive to race at club level is two fold,

[_sleigh_]

what about!
f1's get in auto, f2 from nats the year before also, f2-f5 at regional pre qualify from the year before at regional level and say top ten from each region, then if theres any gaps, first come first served,there the incentive to race at club level is two fold,

Forgive me, but isn't that pretty much what we do now. :eh?:

[burgie]

for me, as a dad with two sons racing, it's a matter of cost.

I need to make my racing as cheap as possible, so this year I abandoned ni-mih cells and purchased Li-po's. This was better for me, i have not had to replace cells midway through the season etc. as the Lipo's have not deteriorated etc.,(don't want another lipo debate, I'm just qualifying my decision) but this meant that there were two less drivers who may otherwise have entered the EOS finals. If Lipo are eligible next year, then we will probably be at the EOS finals.

I think the main issue with youngsters in the hobby is cost.
Most parents who come to watch at Southport with there youngsters are all keen and enthusiastic to join and let their children race - until they find out how expensive it can be. As a club, we always recommend a "newbie" gets an RTR B4 to start with and build up from that. Sometimes parents do just that and come back the next week. BUT when the car breaks they often don't return - having said that Southport has quite a "healthy" junior section, and for the past few years the club as a whole has been seeing a steady upturn in the membership as a whole.

I would guess that the majority of youngsters driving these days are the children of racers that have been racing for a long time.

[bigred5765]

Forgive me, but isn't that pretty much what we do now. :eh?:

so what your saying phill is unless you finish top ten in your region, and your a f3-4-5 you wont get in for the nationals, thats news to me,

[GRIFF55]

I think the 27t std class used to attract youngsters too, it made the cars easier for new people to drive and also be the same speed as others. This helped many drivers progress to the modified class and have been racing for years after. How about a completely stock out of the box heat at regionals? b4 rtr's as somebody mentioned?
The welsh regionals are very low on numbers thus giving some who qualify as f2 no chance to race against people of thier own ability at the f3'4'5, taking the fun away for them. Not sure how this could be sorted mind??

[Chris Doughty]

.....
I would guess that the majority of youngsters driving these days are the children of racers that have been racing for a long time.

YOu might find that the same of the 'mid' age group of racers that are racing now

[_sleigh_]

so what your saying phill is unless you finish top ten in your region, and your a f3-4-5 you wont get in for the nationals, thats news to me,

What I'm saying is, we currently have a system very very similar....

Currently....
Preference is given to the higher license grades (i.e. F1 -> F5), with a 2nd preference given to those that enter at least the qualifying number of round (4+) and an overiding preference is given to date of entry (first come, first served). This method is even used for reserves...

So if you look at your suggestion (assuming we're thinking of drivers that are entering 4 or more rounds - remember this is a championship so they should get priority)


f1's get in auto - That happens
f2 from nats the year before also - That happens
(if everyone from the previous years National enters, then thats around 60 drivers)
f2-f5 at regional pre qualify from the year before at regional level and say top ten from each region - That happens, as the higher license grades are given priority.
then if theres any gaps - That happens (as not all regioanl drivers wish to race Nationals)
first come first served - That happens.

So yeah, we do that all already.

[Northy]

Agreed Phil, that is how it works Lion-O in reality.

I am also worried about the lack of 'new blood' into the sport and have been thinking what I can help the clubs in my region do to generate new members :(

Any suggestions would be great.

G

[ashleyb4]

I think the main reason why young drivers dont know is because of advertising and mis conseptions, when i first started i was 14 i went to club nights and i thought i would only be able to race at club level until i was really good then i could go to regionals and then maybe nationals. I think if we advertised the EOS finals a bit better and regionals. Maybe it could be arranged where a letter with a callender for the year attached sent to all F5 drivers. Exsplaining that every level of racer is welcome at regionals and the EOS finals and its not all serious. There have been a few young drivers at oswestry who have been keen to progress but they only find out about the up and coming event a few days before which in most cases is just to short notice for parents. So maybe a letter to there address with a callender exsplaining that it is good fun and your not going to bethe only 12 - 15 year old there. And its not all about the racing i know that James and Callum at our regionals once they have finished doing bits and bobs with there cars they go and play football and swap football cards. And if they recieve it at home there parent will more than likely see it and say o well if you want to go we can arrange something because there given plent to time to get organised.

A

P.S. I hope that made sence.

[ben]

Hmmmm just using york as an example here. Maybe a poster could be made which had the info about York off road car club and the website. Then a couple of shop addresses which could be used to buy a B4RS for example. The poster could be then put up in the local surrounding schools. York club offers the first 3 meetings FREE of charge from a club and BRCA license, to see what new racers think to the club.
Maybe each club could also build a couple of cars with cheap electrics in so that if new members arrive on a club night they could have a go?

Ive been to a couple of the batley club meetings this year and i think ive seen 3 or 4 B4 rtr's there which shows there is new people coming into the hobby.

Peace... :woot:

[_sleigh_]

I think the main reason why young drivers dont know is because of advertising and mis conseptions, when i first started i was 14 i went to club nights and i thought i would only be able to race at club level until i was really good then i could go to regionals and then maybe nationals. I think if we advertised the EOS finals a bit better and regionals. Maybe it could be arranged where a letter with a callender for the year attached sent to all F5 drivers. Exsplaining that every level of racer is welcome at regionals and the EOS finals and its not all serious. There have been a few young drivers at oswestry who have been keen to progress but they only find out about the up and coming event a few days before which in most cases is just to short notice for parents. So maybe a letter to there address with a callender exsplaining that it is good fun and your not going to bethe only 12 - 15 year old there. And its not all about the racing i know that James and Callum at our regionals once they have finished doing bits and bobs with there cars they go and play football and swap football cards. And if they recieve it at home there parent will more than likely see it and say o well if you want to go we can arrange something because there given plent to time to get organised.

A

P.S. I hope that made sence.


Ash, sound like you'll be standing for the PR post at the Mid-West regional AGM. :thumbsup:

[bigred5765]

what i was trying to say is, to get more people coming to regional events instead of them all just trying to get in nationals, do what i said in my previous post,so that f3-4-5's would only gain entry to nationals if they finished in the top ten in the regional class,so regionals would be like a qualifier for the nats.

[ashleyb4]

Ash, sound like you'll be standing for the PR post at the Mid-West regional AGM. :thumbsup:

Am i ? :eh?:

A

[David Church]

I think a good way to get more kids/people involved in local clubs, leading to things like the EOS Finals, is to make more people aware of the club itself.

I know it sounds easy, but some sort of campaign, either local radio/tv or local news paper, or even more basic flyers at supermarkets or wherever lots of people go.

Now I live 60 miles from my local club so this is not so easy, but some sort of organised push may just get people interested. Alot of people that show up to EPR for a football match say, "I never even knew this was here".

It's worth a go:thumbsup:

[_sleigh_]

I know it might be radical, but as far as the introduction of "new blood" why do we get hung up on it being youngsters??

We all know it's quite an expensive hobby to start up (if you plan to compete at a reasonable level) and not many youngsters have the type of cash or a willing parent that can part with the cash.

Plus to run at regional level, you've got the need for transportation to the events. Nationals more oftern than not you'll need accomodation, even if it's just camping gear. Then there's the long Sunday meetings, the day before a school day.

Wouldn't we better looking at targetting the 20+ age group that are going be a better fit to the criteria of an ideal newcomer??

[James]

More meetings (or if not meetings then demonstrations) at car shows is a great way to go i think ...

[niggs98]

perhaps we should do a friends meeting where every racer grabs a mate and loans the gear. make it safe for equipment by making it stock motors or even the old silver can 540's so that the car stays in one piece and see how it goes. that way then as phil says it will be to an age group who can afford to do it rather than reliying on mum n dads bank balance

[_sleigh_]

I think you're right James, we'd have a captive crowd of motorsport/motoring enthusiastic people.

Besides most of which seem to have money to burn on neons and subs.


We used to do this years ago in the Mid-West. Schumacher Festivals/RCP Meetings were often run at Car Shows / Town Festivals.

[AndyM]

what i was trying to say is, to get more people coming to regional events instead of them all just trying to get in nationals, do what i said in my previous post,so that f3-4-5's would only gain entry to nationals if they finished in the top ten in the regional class,so regionals would be like a qualifier for the nats.

But this would be a problem, for example, in the NE where most of the top 10 is taken up by F1 drivers anyway?

Also, another way to bring more people to the juniors event could be to bring back the U19 class?

I know that at least 4 people that competed this year in the U16 class are now too old to compete next year as U16s.

Just a thought.

[mattym0310]

Andy, the top ten would be once F1's are taken out because they automatically qualify.

I think it would be good to also do demonstrations of it at other events or car shows. For example Yorcc did one at harewood which was a great day of racing because it was fun and it got people talking and asking about the hobby. NERCR club also did one I think or maybe it was teeside club??

Nick's idea about qualifying for the nats is also a great idea as it would make regionals more popular. This might take the numbers down at club meets though because of the concentration on regs and nats.

[_sleigh_]

I think (although not 100%) the U19 class at the E.o.S. finals was only ever a support class to help bring the numbers up. But there' no reason it couldn't be looked at again, and discussed at AGM level..

[paul01ews]

Hi , i do not have the answers but my son raced at Eastrax under 13 in the group of only 6 that were there.
In the east of England he was the only junior to attened the regional series.
He finds it hard to stay motivated when he is racing against grown up's and comming last all the time, so eastrax was great for him to finally get to race with kids the same age.
I ran RC in the eighties and as long as he wants to do it i will support him with time and money , but there is the problem the time and money is not there for everyone.
Suppliers, Teams and producers need to do more to help here.
Sorry only my view.:)
Paul.

[bigred5765]

Hi , i do not have the answers but my son raced at Eastrax under 13 in the group of only 6 that were there.
In the east of England he was the only junior to attened the regional series.
He finds it hard to stay motivated when he is racing against grown up's and comming last all the time, so eastrax was great for him to finally get to race with kids the same age.
I ran RC in the eighties and as long as he wants to do it i will support him with time and money , but there is the problem the time and money is not there for everyone.
Suppliers, Teams and producers need to do more to help here.
Sorry only my view.:)
Paul.

i do think that sometimes teams and manufactures tend to concentrate to hard on the top ten drivers,I'm not saying they don't deserver it because they do, but may be if they got in to the youngsters,people coming into the sport would see a good goal to aim for,thats not 5 years down the line, just mho

[racingdwarf]

I run a club in norfolk, we have held demos at local school fates in the past, I think RC is in for an up hill struggle the 1st thing that struck me is how many kids are realy not intrested in cars now days, I think out of the 200+ kids at that fate only about 2 showed real intrest in a car, we had quite a few parents intrested but once they found how hard they are to drive round a track (very simple track) and then how much they cost they lost intrest.

How many kids now days build plastic model kits, build go carts,show any inerest in how the gears and stuff on there bike work etc etc

Rc is up against some stiff competition these days nintendo,computers and in my area the local youth football clubs:mad:, all of these are fare cheeper in the short term and modern kids want a fast result! they don't want to spend months lerning how to drive in a cold field, most loose interest very fast, as do there parents in working on the car. Adults find it hard to find the time and these days even harder to justify the money.

I don't know any other ways to get people intrested in our hobby:confused:. But if things don't get better here in the East of England my club has a very short time left :(