Excessive driveshaft+outdrive breakage/wear!

[Origineelreclamebord]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to discuss an issue I'm having with Team Durango's driveshafts and outdrives (mainly DEX210).

Over the last half year I've been running Durango gear. On both cars I run I've been experiencing very pre-mature breakages of driveshafts, and excessive outdrive wear.

I've attached some photos of the broken driveshafts:

1. A new set of 210 shafts that I fitted as a precaution so I wouldn't break the shafts - however that's exactly what happened. The head at the cross joint broke off within 10 minutes of running and has only seen one mild cartwheeling accident on clay.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/Varockshade/DEX210/IMGP9434-2.jpg

2. A set of 410 shafts. The shaft broke at the side of the outdrive in less than 10 laps of running, without problems or crashes that came before it. This happened on a carpet track.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/Varockshade/DEX210/IMGP9433-2.jpg

3. A set on my 210 that had seen about 4 months of racing (1-2 meets each month). This time around it's not the cross-joint head, but the head at the side of the outdrive. It's not broken yet, but it's clearly cracked and it's strength therefor is compromised.
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/Varockshade/DEX210/IMGP9435-2.jpg

4. During maintainance I did just now, I noticed yet again a same crack/breakage of a driveshaft on my DEX210 at the head on the outdrive side! This time the cross-pin in the head also shifted to the outside by about 1mm. I don't know if this is the shaft I recently replaced or not, but it has seen a maximum of 6 race meetings because the car had been standing still for a while.
5. I found that the (long version) ball diff outdrives on my DEX210 wear extremely quick. After 6 meetings they are easily worn in 1mm, my last car (TRF201) did nearly two seasons with less wear on the outdrives!

I've mailed Durango about the first three occurances a while back - they did not respond. I emailed them to ask if they had seen my email, again no response.

I have ruled out binding in the drivetrain or wrongly assembled parts on both cars. I'm not a rough driver and I take good care of my equipment. I have to, I can't afford the hobby if my car breaks down regularly! I find it quite shocking how quickly the Durango drivetrain parts wear and break, and I recall other people with similar stories - whereas I NEVER had these problems with my Tamiya, which had less wear after 1 1/2 season racing it (to name just an example). Moreover, the breakages of the 210 driveshafts are from two cars: a first and a 'recent' (summer 2013) batch car. Finally, I'm utterly disappointed by the fact they did not respond in any way to the issues I've been having :thumbdown:

Does anyone have advice how to get through to them?

[av4625]

I have never seen this before, i have a 410 and a 210 and run on high grip astro or wooden floor or anything really, my last 410 i had a year and i had no problems, the rear right pin in the shaft and outdrive wore a bit but its expected after a year, have u got a serious amount of power and r u a punchy driver?

[mattr]

Or is your slipper too tight?

Also, are any of the breakages on your diy car? I can remember some extreme drive shaft angles on there, they could cause this sort of failure.

[av4625]

i used to run a pretty tight slipper alos with no problem!?!

[jimmy]

usually it is wise to just contact the company and they will likely help.

cracks dont appear, they are there from the start. a manufacturing fault.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Thanks for the comments and questions guys.

I run mainly on low-medium bite tracks (clay/dirt, low-medium traction astroturf), occasionally on medium bite carpet. I always use the same HobbyKing X-Car 6.5T (5200kV)+ESC combo set at medium punch levels.

I use long 210 outdrives to prevent the driveshaft popping out at zero suspension compression. Throughout the suspension movement, the driveshafts don't hit the edge of the outdrive, neither do they touch the ball diff nut. There simply is no binding in the drivetrain.

The driveshaft angle at zero suspension compression is more than on the stock DEX210 (I have removed the droop screw stoppers on the chassis plate to increase rear droop), but it's angle is still considerably less than at full suspension compression. The slipper clutch is set to normal standards.

As such, I think it's safe to say that the DEX210 is running within it's intended design limits for the drivetrain. Just to make a comparison, before this I had a TRF201, which I used for one and a half seasons. By then the outdrives looked like the Durango examples now do after 6-8 races. The driveshafts had considerable slop but I never broke them, despite what was thrown at them, their durability is nothing short of amazing. This is a high benchmark and I can only wish another car can match that, but I think it's reasonable to expect the Durango parts can last longer than this.

A day after posting this thread I got a response from Team Durango and things from there on were handled quickly. Today, the replacement parts for all breakages and worn parts arrived. They asked me to keep them updated on how the replacements parts hold up, and I definetely will. It's in TD's and my best interest to not have any of these breakages occur again. Fingers crossed :)

[Origineelreclamebord]

The problems continue! :thumbdown: I kept them updated on the replacement parts I got (6x 210 driveshafts, 1x 410 front driveshaft, 2x long outdrives):

- 1 of the 210 driveshafts had a cracked head in the packagaging.
- 1 of the outdrives had too big a bearing seat, cracking the bearing upon installing it.
- 1 of the outdrives had a bearing seat that was on the small side (loose tolerance), and unlike the other 3 outdrive parts didn't have the bearing seat surface polished.

I emailed this to Durango on the 18th of April, and soon got a response, stating that the customer support was moved an employee of Revell/Hobbico. The email was forwarded by Durango, without response. I emailed to the guy, and again, no response. I emailed these issues back to my previous Durango contact on the 13th of May, and I have yet to receive a response or the parts - so one of my cars is still driving with a knackered set of outdrives! :mad:

[Origineelreclamebord]

The problems continue! :thumbdown: I kept them updated on the replacement parts I got (6x 210 driveshafts, 1x 410 front driveshaft, 2x long outdrives):

- 1 of the 210 driveshafts had a cracked head in the packagaging.
- 1 of the outdrives had too big a bearing seat, cracking the bearing upon installing it.
- 1 of the outdrives had a bearing seat that was on the small side (loose tolerance), and unlike the other 3 outdrive parts didn't have the bearing seat surface polished.

I emailed this to Durango on the 18th of April, and soon got a response, stating that the customer support was moved an employee of Revell/Hobbico. The email was forwarded by Durango, without response. I emailed to the guy, and again, no response. I emailed these issues back to my previous Durango contact on the 13th of May, and I have yet to receive a response or the parts - so one of my cars is still driving with a knackered set of outdrives! :mad:

Here are some pictures of the faulty parts:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/Varockshade/DEX210/IMGP9741-2.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/Varockshade/DEX210/IMGP9742-2.jpg

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h212/Varockshade/DEX210/IMGP9743-2.jpg

I don't know if I'm just having bad luck, but I think it's outrageous that I'm having so many quality issues, and all with the same parts!

[Danny Harrison]

Im verging on having some outdrives machined for the 410 gearboxes. Ive done 4 in around 10 meetings. The ones on my car are also showing considerable wear, pin receeding around 2mm.

Granted Im running them in a b44 but the wear rate has been consistantly high. Wouldnt mind at all but at £20 a pair its been hurting the micro racing budget i have lately...

[Big G]

I found the DEX410 outdrives wore quite fast, but only on the 1 side. Like the right rear and left front wore rather than both sides of the diff at the same rate.

Snapped the end off 1 driveshaft, but considered this ok given that was over a year of running.

[janus_77]

Tom vD also has the new 2wd. Outdrives are already showing excessive wear :bored:

[DCM]

The outdrives seem to have missed the final part of machining, i.e they get machined to a size, hard anodized then the bearing seats should see a post anodizing re-surface to ensure the correct fit.

Cracked driveshaft, at a guess, that has happened when the pin has been pressed into place with either a) to small a hole or, b) driveshaft not sufficiently heated to expand the hole prior to pin fitment.

[Origineelreclamebord]

Ok, so I'm not the only one having issues...? And it's not just the 210 either?

@janus: I didn't know Tom's car was suffering from those wear issues already and as well... but I can't say I'm surprised :(

@DCM: I talked about the driveshaft issues back in January with Chris Doughty - he stated the cracked head was indeed a manufacturing error relating to a problem regarding the fit of the parts and/or the temperature they were processed at (which in turn of course also relates to the fit).

The outdrives I think were changed somewhere in time: The first sets of long outdrives (that I bought myself) didn't have those smooth bearing seats. However, the wrong dimensions of the bearing seat are just down to tolerances bigger than the bearings will allow.

[rcjunky]

interesting, I've had no issues with my dex210 other then the single outdrive wearing big time, but that was from the original first bad batch and got free parts. I've also broken 2 dex410 front driveshafts, but both times were with a fist full of throttle, once on landing on one wheel, and the other on a pipe at full lock ( different side, so possibly a batch issue) It sounds odd you're having such issues :(

[safk]

I have the same issue with head of the shaft cracking (3 so far) & I have also just bought a new set with one of them (possibly both, can't tell for sure in the packet) delivered cracked.

[dpackster1980]

TD is in a sad state of affairs currently. The original 410 was awesome, highest of quality and attention to detail was excellent. The wear and tear was minimal. The 2010 car came out that was also good and ironed out the niggles of the 2009 car. Ever since then TD brought out more cars and what seems to be at the cost of quality.

If they don't get their act together then their followers will dwindle to nothing. They need to stop living off the reputation from a car released in 2009 as nothing released to date touches it in terms of quality. I doubt Revell would care as long as you the customer keep filling their pockets. TD seem to have been past around like an unwanted stepchild.

I had a 410 and loved it. Unfortunately the 210 didn't live up to my expectations it was like they were made by two different companies. I've never touched them again.

[av4625]

if you havent raced there most current cars you cant comment, i feel that there 8th buggys and 10th buggys are of great quality! i did an hour long main yesterday with the DNX and finished no bother!

[Origineelreclamebord]

After my post of these issues I've - again - got a reply from Team Durango within 24 hours. They redirected me to the customer service from Hobbico and I got my parts within 4 working days and received replacement outdrives, driveshafts and bearings (for the ones that cracked on assembly).

It seemed this time around the package of the outdrives had been opened - perhaps to check if the bearings would fit on. The driveshafts also seem ok looking through the packaging material :)

Upon rebuilding the diff, the outer bearings did fit on properly this time. However the female side (in which the thrust bearing and 5x8x2.5mm bearing is inserted) was so tight the parts didn't fit in. I tried another thrust bearing and had exactly the same problem - as was also the case when trying to fit another ball bearing. I had to heat up the part to fit the components in there. I don't know if the tight fit will cause problems with wear of the bearings, but it sure will be a pain if (or when) the thrust bearing needs maintainance. I guess time will tell what the severity of the problem is, and whether the wear of the outdrives has been solved.

Lastly, I noticed the hole in which the driveshaft knuckle/head fits is so big there is over 0.5mm of play in there - it doesn't seem to affect the function so far, but the fact that the car sounds louder with new outdrives is not reassuring me so far that these new outdrives are better than the old ones - but again, time will tell: conclusions can be drawn in the long term in this case, not with a first impression!

[CARB]

hi there
I run Durango along with Schumacher, I am amazed at the amount of issues you have been having with drive shafts. there are a number of Durango's running at mendip and have not seen anything like this.

Could I ask if you are using a grub screw to secure the drive pin in to the wheel axel, there is a thread for one but as far as I know it is not used so the assemble can float and find its own position, the part I am talking about is TD310113 in the exploded views there is not a grub screw shown.

This is at the wheel end not the diff, I have just looked at my210 and after over a year of running on Astro there is only what I would call reasonable ware.

regards

Neale

[Origineelreclamebord]

@Carb: The situation is indeed weird - I absolutely hate the situation, because frankly I love the design of the 210, but I keep on bumping into issues with manufacturing quality. I guess that's partially because the problems started in the first place: Once you come across all these replacement parts, chances are bigger that you (instead of someone who doesn't have these issues) come across faulty components again...

I know the issues I'm having are quite severe... but it seems I'm not the only one that's having issues with the driveline. A fellow club member (that janus referred to) is having similar wear problems on his 210V2, and I've seen other people with extreme outdrive wear issues too (who drove at a different club and on a different surface, as far as that should matter anyway). If you ask me, it's an issue that has become more prominent in later batches, so are the members at Mendip running old 210s - or in a silver can class? ;)

To answer your question regarding the CVDs, I haven't used a grub screw in there, it's built as instructed in the manual.

[CARB]

hi
I run a Orion VST2 7.5 and others us similar and they do get hammered, the track has a lot of bumps so there is a lot of shocks going through the whole drive chain.
there are also a good number of SCT210, mine has a VST2 6.5 and is still ok.

neale

[madap1]

on my v2, the hole for the thrust to go through is tight, and the diff lasted 3 meetings (1 indoor polished floor, 2 high grip outdoor) before it felt rough

ive rebuilt the diff (new everything except gear and outdrives) and will see how long it last this time.

in my opinion the diff outdrives are bit weak and do wear quite quick, apparently the b4.1 outdrives fit but need alot of shims for the gearbox.

[dpackster1980]

I thought they were the good cars and are still good. I never had a drivershaft snap just extreme wear issues not so much the 410 but the 210 was horrific.

As for driveshafts supplied damaged that's just down to none existant QC or they aren't checking enough of a batch. The pin cracking is probably down to over hardening of the driveshaft and incorrect machining tolerances when TD revised them.

The outdrive is just unlucky.

[fredswain]

Has anyone tried a different driveshaft from a different car such as a B4? I have never measured or compared any others so I don't know if it's possible but has anyone looked for an alternative?