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Clive Loynes
19-01-2014, 07:48 PM
Hi,

My first post!

I have just completed and run the prototype of my aluminium gearbox to enable the Team-C geared diff to be used in the Lupuz/TC02C and anything else that uses the original gearbox from the Lupuz.

Would anyone else be interested? My current plan is to make a small batch and get one on ebay asap.

I shall try to attach a picture but as I have said, this is my first post on this forum so anything might happen.

Kusal
19-01-2014, 10:53 PM
I am very interested in one of these!
Do let me know what the price would be incl shipping to Belgium.
Thx.

adey
20-01-2014, 12:20 AM
Me too. I am very interested

Clive Loynes
20-01-2014, 09:26 AM
Price is a good question.

If I logged all the hours spent on the prototype it would be about 30,000 but, as with all things, it is worth what you can get for it.

I notice that a Schumacher aluminium gearbox retails for about 65 so my plan was to put is on ebay with a starting price of 50 and see where it went.

The rear T-Plate has to be modified and the price would include the supply of a modified part plus gear casing and fasteners. Because the T-Plate has to be machined away where the gearbox sits, I have extended the gear casing forward to provide two additional fixing points, ahead of the thick rib that locates the pivots for the rear wishbones. It's a very stiff assembly.

For a limited period, anyone who contacts me via a PM on this forum (if you have them) and subsequently sends me a T-Plate for modification, can have one at the starting price of 50. Orders would be taken in strict rotation.

Personally, I think that you should buy them just to put in a glass case and look at them! But I'm biased. :D And they do let you put the beautiful Team-C geared diff in your car.

I suspect, but I'm still measuring one up, that the Durango diff would also fit.

It would be of assistance to me if someone could please give me a definitive list of all the Team-C cars that this gearbox is used on. :confused:

madmax
20-01-2014, 07:40 PM
Hi Clive it's lee

The cars that you have stated also the ansmann x2c and madmonkey

I have seen this gearbox at the weekend and it is a pice of art the quality of the gearbox is better than the vega,

Clive Loynes
20-01-2014, 10:14 PM
Thanks Lee,

The next one will be even prettier and a tad lighter too. :D

It's spoken for but I have material for two more at the minute.


Is there a truck or SC variant?

Tom3012
20-01-2014, 11:35 PM
Looks nice! If your down at southport this sunday id like to take a look! Would making it out of some kind of plastic reduce cost? Delrin for example? It will fit the 4 cars mentioned, the ansmann x2c (tco2c) and the ansmann mad monkey (lupuz) as they all use the same rear t piece and gearbox... Hope that helps :thumbsup:

Clive Loynes
21-01-2014, 08:26 AM
I am very interested in one of these!
Do let me know what the price would be incl shipping to Belgium.
Thx.


Sorry Kusal,

I missed your question regarding shipping earlier.

Shipping to Belgium would be an additional cost in the order of 10 to 12 for a two day service.

I originally stated that I would require the T-Plate to be sent to me for modification but I see that DMS have them in stock at 4 so that is another additional cost if you don't have a spare T-Plate and want to keep racing whilst I'm machining.

Cheers

Clive

Clive Loynes
21-01-2014, 08:39 AM
Looks nice! If your down at southport this sunday id like to take a look! Would making it out of some kind of plastic reduce cost? Delrin for example? It will fit the 4 cars mentioned, the ansmann x2c (tco2c) and the ansmann mad monkey (lupuz) as they all use the same rear t piece and gearbox... Hope that helps :thumbsup:


Thanks Tom,

I was going to be at Southport this Sunday for some much needed practice but I now have my chin on the tank in an attempt to complete Production Unit #001 in time for a guy to use it at next month's BRCA indoor event.

I think that making it in plastic would be cheaper if it were done by 3D printing. But I don't have one of those..........yet!

Machining plastic is a bit of a sod and usually gives you about a week's work deburring all the edges and little feathery bits that get left behind. Glass filled plastics are better in that respect but the tool wear is worse than with aluminium. And it wouldn't be shiny!

The material cost isn't that significant. Most of the cost is in the machining hours, turning most of the aluminium into swarf and transferring it to my vacuum cleaner!

I shall be at the Turf-Wars round six on 2nd Feb though. Or you could take a drive to Hesketh Bank. :D

Kusal
21-01-2014, 10:34 AM
Hi Clive,
Just sent you a pm with an order request! :)
One question; what is the weight difference compared to the plastic gearbox?
Thx.

Clive Loynes
21-01-2014, 11:40 AM
Thanks for the order Kusal,

I don't have a definitive answer on the weight at the minute.

The original plastic drive-side casing weighs 8 grams and my prototype was 24 grams. However, when I manufactured the other half I took a lot of excess material out of it. But forgot to weigh it. :rolleyes:

My target is to get the drive side half down to the order of 15 grams.

However, I'm being asked to incorporate a lug on the front of the box to facilitate the mounting of a chassis stiffening strut! This is going to add a bit back on. I would think that a steel strut down to the top of the battery retaining plate will have more weight than the amount of aluminium that I'm able to shave off the casing.

Some people may be bothered about the weight and others may not.


Clive


Hi Clive,
Just sent you a pm with an order request! :)
One question; what is the weight difference compared to the plastic gearbox?
Thx.

Kusal
21-01-2014, 09:58 PM
No problem for the extra lug, then you have the option to use it or not.
So there will be approx 20 to 30 g extra weight, I do not see this an issue. I used to run with 104 g under the lipo and only recently switch to a plate of 54 g.
I do feel the difference but I can certainly live with extra weight if I can run with a gear dif!!!

Clive Loynes
21-01-2014, 10:25 PM
Many thanks Kusal,

Payment received and thanks also for the feedback regarding the lug.

I will be making the first two units in parallel and will then have enough material in hand for one more. After that this offer will be closed.

I expect these first two to take up to four weeks to complete as I set up the production versions of the programming and incorporate the refinements that have been identified by the prototype.

Clive

Kusal
21-01-2014, 10:38 PM
Ok, thx.

Clive Loynes
22-01-2014, 05:43 PM
I was wrong, DMS do not have the T-Plates and do not intend to try to obtain any in the next two weeks!

Can anyone suggest where I can purchase this item within the UK?

InsideLineModels
22-01-2014, 06:47 PM
We have one in stock if this is what you are after?

http://insidelineracing.co.uk/new-products/spares/team-c-rc-car-spares/rear-chassis-plate-details

Kev

Clive Loynes
22-01-2014, 07:23 PM
Thanks Kev,

That is the beast and I had already started one of your carts with it in but was going to ring in the morning to see if you really only had just the one.

How quickly could you supply four?

If I have to buy each one separately I'm going to wind up broke due to postage charges. I'm already charging less for the finished part than I will have to pay for them.

Regards

Clive

InsideLineModels
22-01-2014, 09:18 PM
Hi Clive,

They should be with us on Monday. If you drop us and email to sales at insidelineracing.co.uk so we have your details we let you know when they are in.

Cheers
Kev

Clive Loynes
22-01-2014, 10:14 PM
Hi Clive,

They should be with us on Monday. If you drop us and email to sales at insidelineracing.co.uk so we have your details we let you know when they are in.

Cheers
Kev



Magic!!

Will send email tomorrow.

Ta

Clive Loynes
23-01-2014, 09:10 AM
Hi Clive,

They should be with us on Monday. If you drop us and email to sales at insidelineracing.co.uk so we have your details we let you know when they are in.

Cheers
Kev

Hi Kev,

I'm having trouble opening your web site. Is your internet groggy?

Clive

InsideLineModels
23-01-2014, 01:12 PM
Hi Clive,

I don't think we've had any issues with our website today. Is it being blocked for some reason?

Kev

Clive Loynes
23-01-2014, 02:20 PM
I will try again.

All working fine but it will not let me order four because it knows that you only have one at the minute.

If you want to send me an invoice for four then I will send the money via PayPal.

Cheers

Clive

PS Do you do a quantity discount? ;-)

Clive Loynes
25-01-2014, 10:35 AM
I put 12000 cST oil in the diff for the first run (That's all I could lay my hands on) but the posts that I have read seem to suggest that something lighter might be in order.

Is there any accepted wisdom on this?

Clive Loynes
28-01-2014, 12:44 PM
Hi Clive,

They should be with us on Monday. If you drop us and email to sales at insidelineracing.co.uk so we have your details we let you know when they are in.

Cheers
Kev


T-Plates arrived this morning.

Thanks for the speedy service Kev.

Cheers

Clive

Tom3012
28-01-2014, 06:03 PM
I run 2000 in my TM2 :)

Clive Loynes
28-01-2014, 08:55 PM
Well you know me Tom, I probably couldn't tell the difference!


All three of the units available have now been purchased so the introductory offer of 50 is now suspended whilst I complete manufacture and then figure out how much I should really charge.

BTW I have established that the Durango geared diff will not fit as they seem to use a slightly larger module gear. Perhaps Kyosho?

Clive Loynes
05-02-2014, 04:43 PM
Hi Clive,
Just sent you a pm with an order request! :)
One question; what is the weight difference compared to the plastic gearbox?
Thx.


First production version of the drive-side casing has weighed in at 14 grams. :thumbsup:

ben44
06-02-2014, 09:06 AM
It's wonderfull. :drool:

Clive Loynes
06-02-2014, 10:24 AM
It's wonderfull. :drool:

Thank you.

I agree! :D

But then I am biased as it's my blood, sweat and tears that are going into it!

I hope to incorporate a chassis stiffener once I have mastered the art of manufacturing the boxes.

Kusal
06-02-2014, 09:01 PM
That weight is perfect! and the box too :drool:
Now getting scared in running it!!
Thx.

Samuran
14-02-2014, 03:57 PM
Hi

Sorry for the total noob questions but is this basically a better (because it's hand made in Britain) version of this?
http://www.eurorc.com/product/2254/teamc-gear-diff-set-for-2wd

If it is can someone let me know what it's for? I did a bit of searching and all I could find online was that a ball diff was "better" than a gear diff... I'm not trying to say that's fact but I am very curious about it. I assume that the gear diff is a lot more hard wearing? Just without the on the fly adjustment you get with a ball diff??

Cheers
Ben

Clive Loynes
14-02-2014, 05:32 PM
Hi

Sorry for the total noob questions but is this basically a better (because it's hand made in Britain) version of this?
http://www.eurorc.com/product/2254/teamc-gear-diff-set-for-2wd



LOL
Not quite. The device that you have provided the link to is the kit of parts that will enable you to put the Team-C geared diff into the variants of the TC02 that have the motor behind the rear axle. There is no equivalent for the TC02C, the version with the motor in front of the axle. And that's what this is.


If it is can someone let me know what it's for? I did a bit of searching and all I could find online was that a ball diff was "better" than a gear diff... I'm not trying to say that's fact but I am very curious about it. I assume that the gear diff is a lot more hard wearing? Just without the on the fly adjustment you get with a ball diff??

Cheers
Ben

I think that the type of diff used is a matter of driver preference although there appears to me to be a leaning towards the geared diff on medium to high grip surfaces.

I'm not good enough at driving the darn things to be able to say anything else but I noticed that there was a reasonable outcry for the gear diff to be made available for the mid-motor car and so I set about making one.

I'm hoping that my customers will prove its worth because I certainly don't have the thumbs, eye-sight or reactions to do it.

Certainly, the geared diff is faff to adjust but once you have it set, ie the right oil in it, it is very reliable.

And my gearbox is much prettier! :thumbsup:

Samuran
15-02-2014, 09:34 AM
Ah ha! Thanks Clive, very helpful. I totally agree yours is much prettier :)

I'm only just getting into RC, well not counting toys as a kid. I've got a mad monkey and x2c roller to play about with but I think it might be a little while till I need one of these.

Clive Loynes
15-02-2014, 11:00 AM
Ah ha! Thanks Clive, very helpful. I totally agree yours is much prettier :)

I'm only just getting into RC, well not counting toys as a kid. I've got a mad monkey and x2c roller to play about with but I think it might be a little while till I need one of these.

I have the Lupuz car, so the same as your Mad Monkey.

My original incentive to put the geared diff in was that the ball diff was a nighmare. The M2.5 screw through the middle kept breaking due to something being out of kilter. I eventually machined enough of it away to cure the problem and also made a little spherical seat for the head of the screw to sit on. This stopped the fatigue failures of the screw but by then the casing for the geared diff was on a roll!

Clive Loynes
22-02-2014, 10:28 PM
The right-hand half of the casing weighed in at 12 grams and unit 001 is in the post. :thumbsup:

madmax
23-02-2014, 07:50 AM
hay Clive if you want to try different diff oils in your car then I have a good selection with me, so just see us track side

Lee

oh gearbox looking awsome

Clive Loynes
23-02-2014, 11:36 PM
hay Clive if you want to try different diff oils in your car then I have a good selection with me, so just see us track side

Lee

oh gearbox looking awsome


Thanks Lee,

I have been too busy manufacturing the first batch to think about what oil I should put in the diff itself. It still has the thick treacle-like stuff that Phil sold to me but I do have some thinner tackle now.

I'm hoping that by the next Turf Wars event I will have a sample that you can take a good look at. Unit 001 was delivered today, down at the BRCA Open. Saw a lot of familiar faces, which probably explains why today's Turf Wars was below the 72 limit last time that I checked.


Cheers

Clive

Clive Loynes
01-03-2014, 10:57 AM
I have been asked if this gearbox would fit an Akula chassis and I think that the answer is "Probably" but it will require six holes to be drilled in the chassis and countersunk from the underside.

I don't have an Akula to measure but the attached sketch shows where my fixing points are located.

My datum is the middle of the back face of the gearbox.

Clive Loynes
08-03-2014, 10:44 AM
Units 1 and 2 are now with their new owners and Unit 3 should be half done this weekend. Should anyone else want one of these then it will have to be on the basis of say 80 for the box, 10 for the T-Piece and 10 for the Rear Brace. If people supply me with the T-Piece or Brace then I will do them at 5 and 4 respectively.

The box itself is still spectacularly under priced but I enjoy making them. :) Also, it is possible to modify the brace if you are handy with a Dremel and don't mind if it looks a wobbly.

I may soon also be able to offer a system of anti-squat and toe adjustment for the TC02C and a rear brace with an extra set of holes for the top links.

InsideLineModels
09-03-2014, 06:51 PM
The right-hand half of the casing weighed in at 12 grams and unit 001 is in the post. :thumbsup:

That's a lovely looking gearbox Clive, great work!

Kev

Clive Loynes
09-03-2014, 07:21 PM
That's a lovely looking gearbox Clive, great work!

Kev


Thanks Kev,

And each one looks better than the one that went before!

How many would you like to order?

LOL

And many thanks to Inside Line Racing for being so prompt in supplying the T-Plates and Rear Braces. :thumbsup:

InsideLineModels
09-03-2014, 07:33 PM
Thanks Kev,

And each one looks better than the one that went before!

How many would you like to order?

LOL

And many thanks to Inside Line Racing for being so prompt in supplying the T-Plates and Rear Braces. :thumbsup:

Haha, I'll certainly point people your way if anybody asks.

No worries, anytime :)

Legacy555
10-03-2014, 08:34 AM
Mine fitted with ball diff....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/1002659_759362857421314_1181432572_n.jpg

Clive Loynes
12-03-2014, 08:35 AM
How easy was it to attack the aluminium Rear Brace with a Dremel, so that it fitted around the wider gearbox?

Legacy555
12-03-2014, 08:56 AM
Hi Clive,
My patience, or lack of it, got the better of me and I marked and dremeled it instead of machining. I'll be hoovering up alu dust from the workshop floor for weeks!
Next time I'll get it machined.

Clive Loynes
28-03-2014, 09:25 AM
I'm thinking of offering this to the Tate Modern. :D

http://www.planet-venom.co.uk/RC/Team-C/TC02C Gearbox 004a.jpg

Crazy L
28-03-2014, 10:13 AM
Some lovely machining there Clive. What machine are you using and was it cad'd up or was it all done manually on heidenhain or fanuc?

Clive Loynes
28-03-2014, 10:32 AM
Some lovely machining there Clive. What machine are you using and was it cad'd up or was it all done manually on heidenhain or fanuc?

I think that you would have to say it is decidedly manual. :D

I draw it in 2D using NanoCAD, the Russian version of AutoCAD which is free for home use.

When complicated profiles are needed I draw the tool paths on NanoCAD and then export them as .dxf files.

I use another freebie called GSimple to create the initial G-Code. I import the .dxf into GSimple to create "engravings" and use the "pocket" and "bulge" functionality of GSimple where I can.

I have to create the engraving paths as 0.1mm deep in GSimple and then copy and paste in Notebook to generate the successive passes at ever increasing depth.

It's sodding hard graft and I'm sure that you can appreciate the scope for sodding it up! LOL But I'm enjoying every minute since retiring last August.

David Church
28-03-2014, 12:53 PM
Good work! :D

Crazy L
28-03-2014, 03:25 PM
I think that you would have to say it is decidedly manual. :D

I draw it in 2D using NanoCAD, the Russian version of AutoCAD which is free for home use.

When complicated profiles are needed I draw the tool paths on NanoCAD and then export them as .dxf files.

I use another freebie called GSimple to create the initial G-Code. I import the .dxf into GSimple to create "engravings" and use the "pocket" and "bulge" functionality of GSimple where I can.

I have to create the engraving paths as 0.1mm deep in GSimple and then copy and paste in Notebook to generate the successive passes at ever increasing depth.

It's sodding hard graft and I'm sure that you can appreciate the scope for sodding it up! LOL But I'm enjoying every minute since retiring last August.

Bloody hell, that's alot of sodding about. Fanuc then. Even though I don't know how to use it yet, I have been given a full copy of solidworks and I have a valuation version of Delcams Featurecam on my pc, I use featurecam to draw stuff, get measurements etc, so I can slyly program a spare machine at work lol. We have old hat Bridgeport VMCs and they're so slooowww.

I think I would like retirement, nowt to do but ride motorbikes, fly helis and drive cars, and make bits for the aforementioned, lol. Hoping to get a garage built at our new house then later on a little cnc mill. Maybe start a little fred in a shed sideline aswell as normal job.

Clive Loynes
29-03-2014, 12:57 PM
Bloody hell, that's alot of sodding about............ . We have old hat Bridgeport VMCs and they're so slooowww.



I bet your Bridgeport is faster than my Denford Nova Mill. It is running on Mach3 software, which is great but being in the "shed", I do all the milling dry as I can't cope with cutting oil or its gradual migration into the house. It's bad enough having to vacuum the kitchen to stem the approach of fine aluminium chips and swarf!

I have to use a limited amount of cutting oil to drill and it's a pain. I often choose to mill a pocket rather than drill a hole. I have an air blast aimed at the cutter to clear the chips.

Clive Loynes
02-04-2014, 09:46 AM
To compliment the gearbox, there is now a carbon T-Plate in the pipeline that will also facilitate the adjustment of anti-squat from zero to +3 degrees when using the standard rear hanger.

I am also looking at an aluminium rear brace that will:-
a) facilitate ride height and toe-in adjustment
b) provide an additional pair of holes for top link attachment
c) allow the anti-roll bars from the TM2 to be fitted


I already have hex drives that move the rear wheels out to max track width when using Schumacher mini-spikes on TC wheels and adapters that fit over these to allow 14mm hex wheels to be fitted.

Clive Loynes
19-04-2014, 09:38 PM
This one will use the Durango inserts to give a mind boggling selection of anti-squat settings.

Clive Loynes
25-04-2014, 03:43 PM
This is set to zero using the #2 insert and the standard rear hanger.

A lower rear hanger position is envisaged that will give a lower roll centre whilst still being able to achieve zero anti-squat.

Kusal
25-04-2014, 04:51 PM
Oh god :wub
When is mine coming?! :thumbsup:
Cheers...

Clive Loynes
25-04-2014, 05:28 PM
Oh god :wub
When is mine coming?! :thumbsup:
Cheers...


LOL

That depends on how far into Prototypeland you wish to tread.

In going for the ultra low roll centre option it does mean that the hanger protrudes an ""uncomfortable" amount below the bottom face of the T-Plate. Not sure about that yet. The hanger can be used either way up, the B Side, and in that state it is less of a problem.

I need to do a spreadsheet of all the permutations of insert and hanger positions to see if there are enough sensible settings just using the "B" side.

Another solution that has been suggested to me is to use the TC inserts but I know that you have expressed a wish for the spherical seatings.

Clive Loynes
05-05-2014, 07:30 AM
Oh god :wub
When is mine coming?! :thumbsup:
Cheers...


The aluminium T-Plate is now on my car and one other for evaluation, using the Durango inserts and pivot-ball system for anti-squat adjustment.

With the standard rear hanger this provides the following anti-squat options.
Front Hanger Insert Anti-squat(degrees)
A 3 -1.4
A 2 0.0
B 3 0.2
A 1 0.7
A Inv1 1.2
B 2 1.5
A Inv2 2.0
B 1 2.3
B Inv1 2.8
A Inv3 3.3
B Inv2 3.5
B Inv3 4.9

The one on my car has a 4mm thick T-Plate, which gives more protection to the front hanger.

@Kusal Which thickness of plate would you prefer?

I'm planning to make a wee "sledge" that will fit to the T-Plate and facilitate the mounting of the standard Team-C gearbox, for those who are happy with the ball diff.

Clive Loynes
20-05-2014, 09:09 PM
I have put Unit 004 on ebay. sniff!

There comes a time when you just can't keep them at home any longer. sniff! :(

Legacy555
21-05-2014, 07:19 AM
I have put Unit 004 on ebay. sniff!

There comes a time when you just can't keep them at home any longer. sniff! :(

You should link the ebay auction Clive....

Clive Loynes
21-05-2014, 01:34 PM
You should link the ebay auction Clive....

True, it was such a struggle to post the thing that I didn't have time to do anything else. :lol:

It's here:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321411424443?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Anyone know how to format the text on ebay so that the description isn't just one dirty great blocK?

Clive Loynes
22-05-2014, 09:30 AM
Sorted the text format :thumbsup: and here is the T-Plate, Hanger and Spacer to provide anti-squat adjustment when using the standard gearbox and ball diff:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321412654354?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Clive Loynes
03-07-2014, 12:31 PM
Currently working on a T-Plate and anti-squat adjustment for the Evo that will also include a rear hanger that utilises the square inserts from the TM4 that will allow adjustment of toe and roll centre. The latter will also fit my TC02C T-Plates.

Clive Loynes
25-07-2014, 07:58 AM
I've got a new body!

Not a big event for some but the last buggy body that I did was in the last millennium! :D Dr. Who gets more new bodies than I do!

Note the "Bling Window" in the back. No point in having a shiny gearbox if people can't see it.

http://www.planet-venom.co.uk/RC/Team-C/new body 002.jpg