Outdrives - Weak point or bad luck?

[glypo]

Down Newbury last night there seemed to be a little bit of a problem with outdrives on the CATs. As far as I was aware 3 CAT SX's were racing (not bad going) and all 3 broke outdrives. Two of which (mine included) had limiters on to stop the driveshafts fouling the cups. Oddly I broke a front out-drive and on the front my driveshafts are well clear of getting stuck.

I think mine can be put down to impact perhaps, but still you would expect a wishbone or something to snap before the differential outdrive - so very odd. The other two cats snapped rear outdrives, so appears to be a case of driveshaft causing the damage.

I just found it very odd that on mine, with the setup on the front my driveshafts should have been well clear of getting stuck, yet I still broke an outdrive yet not anything else.

After doing some modifications I ran the rest of the evening rwd - good news is that the CAT handles fine in rear wheel drive mode :o:)

[MattW]

It's a strange one really. The reason i say this is I haven't broken one all year, don't think Si or Grant have either - so it wasn't on the radar at all when the car was launched.

So for me on a personal level there isn't an issue, but clearly there are odd people that are suffering, and i'll be honest and say i don't understand how. I think it is probably a collection of "small" things - as was listed at the top of the built tips thread.

Don't think that answers the question!! I believe they are looking at making modifications for the next batch to try and eradicate, but we'll see i guess.

[AmiSMB]

I was one of the drivers whos rear output cup broke on Friday and mine went when I had a car hit me from the side very hard as he came over the table top and missed the down ramp! My car was his buffer for a soft landing!! :lol: I was running one o-ring on the shaft to stop the drive shaft from hitting the cup but think that I may have to run two or even run a 2mm limiter from my Losi xx-4 to stop this from happening again. I also have one of the other drivers diff which also went and have noticed that the two diffs I have here that have failed are the female output cups U3336. Glypo did your female side go as well?

Upon examination it also looks as though the output cups may have been hardened too much as the metal has fractured straight across where the slot has been machined for the dogbone and there is also tiny amounts of metal that have fractured off where the dogbone pin runs inside the slot. I have included some pictures in this post.

http://www.ukdirtmasters.co.uk/catsx/IMG_1151.jpg

http://www.ukdirtmasters.co.uk/catsx/IMG_1152.jpg

[glypo]

Looks like mine fractured differently to yours.

http://www.glypo.com/reviews/catsx/diff.jpg

This is the male side as well. Does look to be a brittle fracture, so over hardening is certainly likely - and explains why team drivers like Matt have no experienced problems.

[telboy]

Hmm, I didn't have any issues with mine at all on my first run with it. And I'm not running any limiters. For some reason, straight out of the box, mine didn't catch on the outdrives.

Maybe with cars hitting them, it a problem when they have force applied from an unfamiliar direction?


Strange

[glypo]

My cat was fine first time out too. It was still awesome handling last night until it went snap. Mine was a definite impact situation rather than the driveshaft catching on it. Sounds like Grant has a similar issue judging by what he said above.

I just found it odd that the outdrive could snap but not something like a wishbone which you would expect to go didn't. Well... not until I smashed a wishbone when my cat was in rear wheel drive mode lol.

[AmiSMB]

When I look at one of mine there is a simiar fracture on the side that is still left from the lightening hole to the outer edge of the out drive very similar to yours Jason. I cannot tell from the picture that you posted but has yours failed on the same side as where the screw is?

[Chrislong]

Have a look at your driveshafts, if they are marked on the shaft near the bone end, then they have fouled on the outdrive.

I know you have said that the shocks have been limited, and all should be fine. But the thing is, the car on the track is under a lot more stress than the car in the hand and there may be the chance that it has still touched. Especially if you are running extreme camber change as per the manual setup - rather than one of the setup sheets in the rear.

I may be wrong with all that, but do look at it and then we can rule out the driveshaft touching.

That picture of the outdrive snapped in half, I have never seen one go like that, usually it is just a 1/4 of the outdrive that goes. I say usually, I have done 1 and I have seen lil' Ben do 1 like that too - but now we have limited the shocks up travel and seems to be fine again.

[AmiSMB]

I ran Mossy's worksop setup with the short rear cf plate and long camber arms, shocks in the centre hole in the front and rear towers. I only had one o-ring on the rear but it does seem like the shafts have still managed to touch the outdrives. I may have to go to two o-rings in the rear once I have my new outdrives. I was enjoying how the car was going before it broke.

[super__dan]

O Rings when under heavy compression such as landing a big jump compress/deform to almost nothing. If it's essential you stop the travel then solid limites sound wise like the XX4 WE rear shock setup.

[frogger]

How about 4-5mm fuel tubing as a stopper?

[ryan]

I run my Cat outdoors today with 2 O-Rings on each shock, i had a very slight rubbing on one of the driveshafts. I think i will put a small solid spacer in there to be safe :)

[AmiSMB]

Solid it is then I think :)

[langers]

has the impact bent the wishbone hanger mounting bolt as this can happen thus causing possible contact with the outdrive?

[AmiSMB]

The inner wishbone pin and the hub carrier pins are still perfectly straight on my CAT so I would say that in my case that is not what has caused the problem.

[Garry Driffill]

Is there any cuplets that would fit like the Losi savers of that veriety?

[James]

I broke my first one at the weekend, i just landed off a jump - didnt crash, just a landing from a big jump. Its odd that Matt and Simon didnt have problems with pre-release cars, im thinking maybe its an iffy batch, i know schumacher have had broken ones back from team drivers to analyse and come up with a solution so it wont be a permanent problem.

[Garry Driffill]

Which are failing on the car? Is it the front or rear drives?

[James]

I think most have had rears fail but it was a front one on mine :eh?:

[Garry Driffill]

Humm, Chris and Ben broke them at York a good few weeks ago i beleive i heard. Is it the high grip? In there case carpet that 'Could' have killed them?

[AmiSMB]

At Newbury the broken out drive count was two rear and one front, The two rears broke on the adjustment screw side which is classed as the female output drive.

[GRIFF55]

I saw a broken part yesterday, is this a design flaw or is it a bad batch to come out of the factory? Any idea if the bad parts would be replaced if so? Very tempted by the car but would like to know first if this is fixable?:thumbsup:

[ryan]

Tris is on the case of some outdrive savers :thumbsup:

I will keep you all updated!

[Mossy]

I have broken 2 all year, so can safely say this is not a design fault. Both of the 2 i did were off the back of large impacts to that particular side of the car, so dont worry Griff

[Oliv996]

A question for Simon and all the Team:

Did you ever try on shock shaft, to replace the short ball sockets by long ones ?

I mean, this way, it prevents dogbones to hurt diff outdrives at full compression and it allows more droop setup :thumbsup:

Just my 2 cents

[stegger]

RPM do these. 70311 Up Travel Limiter Clips For All 1/8" Diameter Shock Shafts

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/cheshiremodelcars/7031.jpg

Will they fit and has anybody tried them for other cars etc. May be better than the o rings compressing and snapping the out drive.

[James]

A question for Simon and all the Team:

Did you ever try on shock shaft, to replace the short ball sockets by long ones ?

I mean, this way, it prevents dogbones to hurt diff outdrives at full compression and it allows more droop setup :thumbsup:

Just my 2 cents

I did this, it was awful :(

[BuggyMaster]

Hey guys

I saw the new cat @ york a few weeks ago Ben Jemison was driving it and for the couple of lap he managed between breaking diff outdrives it looked awsome!

I don't think he managed to finish a run due to the poor quality of the diff componants, he seemed a little P**sed off to be honest

I'm sure that schumacher will sort out the problem and reissue everyone with new updated parts

Buggymaster

[Lee]

I think ben had made a mistake with the build though, i think his caster blocks were on the wrong way.

I think its best to let schumacher make an announcement on if there is an issue or not, instead of assuming what will happen. I personally dont think that is fair as people will be calling schumacher after reading your post and asking when their replacement parts are coming in.

[rcracer]

yeah true alot of people havent had a issue with there outdrives anyway theres plenty of things to take into account before making assumtions on the build quality.

[Chrislong]

I'll try and be thorough with this. The SX is an absolutely awesome machine so please do not let such a minor hicup tarnish your opinions of it. ;)

The outdrives are strong for the purpose, when they are weak is if something catch's - such as the bone into the slot, or a stone caught in there. So they don't have that added strength to cope with this additional strain.

So do take care with setups. What can cause the additional strain is:

- Too much camber change, raise internal ballstud/use a longer turnbuckle position

- Too much up travel, use external shock limiting of around 2-3mm

- Too much driveshaft plunge, go to diff high position.

If you do break an outdrive, feel free to post on here but I do strongly recommend that you contact Schumacher, take photos, write out a setup sheet. This will help Schumacher in their findings, it is being looked at.

Personally, I have broken 1 on the rear using the manual setup. So to prevent any further I have done the following things: (which also results in a far better setup)

Trimmed the top off the front castor blocks, lowering the outer ballstud.
Remove all spacing from front inside ballstud, raising the inner ballstud.
(Together gives far less camber change, and more progressive steering)

Gone to shortest inboard rear CF bracket, with 4mm ballstud.
Outer hole on hub, with 60mm turnbuckle (longest posible link)
(This gives linear camber change throughout suspension travel).

Limited all four shocks externally by 3mm

Gone to rear diff to high position, set the belt 1 setting looser than manual.
(This will reduce driveshaft plunge, increases traction)


If anybody wants to PM me or any other Schumacher team driver, please do, I'll always put 100% into helping anybody. :thumbsup:

Chris

[Oliv996]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a207/cheshiremodelcars/7031.jpg

Those RPM limiters are very convenient parts because of they could be clipped on the shock shaft without disassembly. But unfortunately most of the time, even the thiner one are too thick :cry:

I would suggest a far cheaper idea: home made "C-washer":
http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/7195/dscn8649ad1.jpg

Based on 1mm thick Nylon washer, transformed the "O" into "C" with just a cutting pliers. Easy to clip and it allows very fine tuning ;)

[stegger]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[sly]

Personally, I have broken 1 on the rear using the manual setup.

Chris

I never started with the manual steup and started very far from it and have run the car 15+ times around Southport with only scratches to show for it, and on one set of the new yellows which will do another week.

higher inboard ballstuds and lowered castor block on the front, and longer camber link at the rear, less anti squat, low diffs, loose belts drilled rear pistons with 30wt, 35wt front kit pistons, no limiters at all, middle at the top and inside at the bottom on shock positions.
plus it`s had lots of air over both the doubles and table top at speed.
5.5L on a 18t to kit spur/ratios,

I agree with Chris the quality of the car is excellent and strong.

Plus stop knocking the wing mounts they are far better the most other manufactors.
Si.;)

[Oliv996]

Limited all four shocks externally by 3mm

Gone to rear diff to high position, set the belt 1 setting looser than manual.
(This will reduce driveshaft plunge, increases traction)


I agree with you Chris :thumbsup:

I was thinking about shiming out the pivot blocks (let's say 1mm on each side) to push a little the limit of driveshaft hitting the outdrive... Of course it depends on adding 2mm on the track width makes the car still complies the rules :confused:

[glypo]

Great advice Chris.

Still doesn't change the fact the outdrives are too hard IMO.

The fractures are all brittle fractures. I would rather have a more ductile failure on a component like this. A little more ductility and flex would allow just enough play to prevent flexes.

I am not talking about a low yield high UTS material, I don't want to bend a handful. I would just prefer a slightly lower modulus.

[Chrislong]

Still doesn't change the fact the outdrives are too hard IMO.


Agreed. But for now they don't have the flex/ability to take any strain, they just *ping* broken, so until it is resolved we have to just think about avoiding the cause to keep this awesome machine on the track.

[Chrislong]

I was thinking about shiming out the pivot blocks (let's say 1mm on each side) to push a little the limit of driveshaft hitting the outdrive... Of course it depends on adding 2mm on the track width makes the car still complies the rules :confused:

Ah yes, good point. This also helps by reducing the depth of the driveshaft plunge :thumbsup:

I know Matt White & I think Barnyard too, both run a wider car. Currently mine is as per manual, but there is room for additional width. I am going to compare mine to the B4 for width and then add shims to suit. This puts a little extra strain on the 2.5mm screws, so do check them for bends.

[MattW]

I run as std 2mm between the front blocks and have gone out as far as 3. For rear i am currently running 4.5/2. This does obviously pull the drive shaft away from the out drive. This was not the reason for me making it wider - it was a handling preference.

[Oliv996]

I run as std 2mm between the front blocks and have gone out as far as 3. For rear i am currently running 4.5/2. This does obviously pull the drive shaft away from the out drive. This was not the reason for me making it wider - it was a handling preference.

Thank you Matt :thumbsup:

[waggz]

I broke one in my first round of racing today. I got put into the wall and broke it right at the base. The buggy was freaking hooked up too:wub

Bad part is I don't think there is a single set of them in the US:cry:

[frogger]

Has anyone broken an outdrive since fitting shock up travel limiters?

[showtime]

all 3 that boke at Newbury the other week had shock limiters!

[DAVIDZX5]

I haven't broke any yet......

I have put O'rings on each shock

[frogger]

I am also using 2 orings on the outside of each shock and I also moved the suspensions arms out by 1mm on each side and have so far not broken any yet despite having bought 2 spare sets :thumbsup:

[GRIFF55]

I haven't broke any yet......

I have put O'rings on each shock

If that was your green car yesterday? They have touched the driveshaft and marked it, so keep an eye on it;). car looked very good, i have to say:thumbsup:

[MikePimlott]

One guy broke 3 in one day yesterday at worksop. poor fella.

[jayst]

i broke 2 wishbones and outdrive yesterday at worksop :(

[DAVIDZX5]

If that was your green car yesterday? They have touched the driveshaft and marked it, so keep an eye on it;). car looked very good, i have to say:thumbsup:

Thanks, i will

just ordered the spring sets so i can get a better set up

:thumbsup:

[showtime]

overhardened!

i'd bet new ones are on the way;)

at least they made the diffs easy to remove in a hurry :D

[TEINsports]

overhardened!

i'd bet new ones are on the way;)

at least they made the diffs easy to remove in a hurry :D

easy? I thought u have to remove the whole rear assembly in order to remove the diff....im keeping my fingers crossed for my kitty

[ben]

easy? I thought u have to remove the whole rear assembly in order to remove the diff....im keeping my fingers crossed for my kitty

4 screws and the front one is out :thumbsup: 4 screws and the rear one is out :thumbsup:

[Southwell]

Probably overhardened, but if their catching on the driveshafts their gonna snap! Even if you limit it to stop it catching, on a hard landing they will still touch, especially if you are relying on rubber o rings.

[ryan]

I tryed 2 orings all round at tiverton the other week, my rear drive shafts had slight marks on them so i added a solid 2mm washer. Run this at stotfold and had no problems :thumbsup:

[Chrislong]

I would certainly recommend against O-rings for this purpose. Use something solid, and only something solid.

[ben]

What about solid O-rings chris? :eh?: The black ones are pretty much solid :thumbsup:

[Northy]

:rolleyes: kids of today :rolleyes:

[frogger]

Yep, I also have some pretty solid black ones on mine. :blush:

[Oliv996]

So about o-rings, I conclude it's just a matter of colour, following the same rule as front Losi springs: orange are very soft and black very hard :woot:

[ryan]

So about o-rings, I conclude it's just a matter of colour, following the same rule as front Losi springs: orange are very soft and black very hard :woot:

So would the Northy orings be really soft, then the associated orange medium, and the schumacher blue hard? :thumbsup:

[Northy]

Nah, colour makes no difference, it's the material ;)



G

[AmiSMB]

Yeah you have the get some rings made with real 'O'. I think the purer 'O' the harder!! :lol: :)

[showtime]

i wont ask what colour your ring is Grant :eh?:

[ryan]

i wont ask what colour your ring is Grant :eh?:

Is that because you already no? Haha :p

[showtime]

well it would just be a guess but i'd say.........................................







:rolleyes::D

[AmiSMB]

LMAO :o:woot::D:thumbsup:

[chris68nufc]

Anybody know if you can buy the losi hard spacers seperatley that people are using as limiters. I have 2 o rings on at the moment but they dont work. Ive done 2 outdrives already.

[Chrislong]

Anybody know if you can buy the losi hard spacers seperatley that people are using as limiters. I have 2 o rings on at the moment but they dont work. Ive done 2 outdrives already.

Chris, when are you racing next? I think I have some spare limiters like I use, if I find them I will put them asside for you and you can have them at Worksop.

Alternatively if you need something sooner - then AE sell a pack of those 0.3 shims (were white, are black in newer kits), and I reckon 3 of those per shock will be just right. :thumbsup:

[waggz]

AE makes some limiters that are about 3mm in size. I found them in my dirt oval parts that I have for my custom works sprint cars. I think they might be called bump stops? I will check to see if I can get a part number on these.

Has anybody heard if there will be a new batch of outdrives made from a different material?

[Cam]

All,

Are the spacers/limiters you are using fitted onto the piston shaft inside the shock or on the outside of the shock?

Cam

[showtime]

they need to be on the outside of the shock to limit uptravel dude ;)
spacers fitted on the inside limit droop

[Cam]

tvm :thumbsup:

[Richard Lowe]

After having a good look at lil Bens SX at York this week it's pretty obvious what's causing all these broken outdrives, and it's not the outdrives or up travel ;)

[glypo]

It is...?

They are over hardened for sure, anyone with smallest bit of materials knowledge can see that.

[Richard Lowe]

But its not the main reason IMO :)

[Southwell]

Down travel?

[Chrislong]

But its not the main reason IMO :)

Well do share the info Rich, don't be shy, your not usually. :lol:

[waggz]

edit

[glypo]

To be fair, Schumacher do you give you the tools for making the diff. The weird composite tools which also deals with turnbuckles and ball grippa (rod ends). Using this would put the out-drive under less strain then gripping using a mole wrench, or pliers or whatever you used.

Either way, unacceptable really. I am beyond certain the outdrives are over-hardened. I have been saying it for ages (since the start of this thread at least) and Schumacher hasn't denied it.

I have been looking at the fractures under a microscope and the size of the crystals suggest over-hardened steel. Out of the 5 types of possible fracture (ductile, brittle, creep, fatigue and environmental) brittle is the most obvious for hardened steel. A brittle fracture is not a bad thing by itself, and is indeed expected from the high strength steels.

The last time I studied fractures, it was in structural integrity where there is always assumed a crack present. However I feel I am right in saying that the same will apply for any material as you just assume the crack or defect is close to infinitely small to begin with, and the same relationships withhold? When you look at the brittle fracture toughness (KIC) of something like high strength steel it is in the region of 70 MPa(root)m and a toughness (GIC) of around 30-90 kJ/m^2. When you compare this to mild steel which has KIC of 140 and GIC of 100 and even a ductile metal like Aluminium with a KIC of 300 and GIC of 500-1000!

This by no means implies hardened steel is weak, it’s the strength of the material that deals with that. However a small difference between yield strength and ultimate tensile strength is what defines a brittle fracture – and is associated with this low fracture toughness. Basically, the lower the fracture toughness is you will typically find the smaller the zone of plastic deformation (lower elasticity). As I say, it’s not bad, you want hard driveshafts otherwise they will mark easily. However by hardening the material initially you reduce the zone of plastic deformation (between YS and UTS). If you harden too much you actually start to reduce the UTS and the YS tends towards the UTS. In summary a small zone of plasticity is fine, it's just when you overharden you loose strength and you loose any ductility to slow the fracture.

On the front end of my car, I am convinced the driveshafts are well clear of fowling the outdrives, yet I am sat here with 3 broken outdrives in front of me from the front of my car. 2 of them had broken when nothing else had broken either. Whether Schumacher admit it or not, I am sure over hardening is the case. I would like to hear your alternate theory Richard although I am not sure I will agree.

I just wish Schumacher would admit more openly about this issue (as in some circumstances it is due to this driveshaft issue, but most it isn’t) so that we can hear what the proposed solution and timescale is.

[MattW]

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk of a driveshaft problem??

[glypo]

Sorry, when I say driveshaft issue, I mean the issue of the driveshafts hitting hitting the outdrives with some setups.

Oh... I just noticed at the start I said driveshaft rather than outdrive in one of the sentences, I just modified that. If that's what you were referring to then it was just a typo by me. Oddly I think there is maybe a driveshaft issue, but I will save that for another thread.

Has anyone heard from Schumacher any what is going to happen about these outdrives? The sooner the fix the better I think!

[Smartalec]

Matt, have you personally had any problems with the outdrives mate? :)

[MattW]

Alec, Well, i had no problems at all all the way through the season, so really couldn't understand what was happening when it all kicked off just after release.

However, since then, i did break one while i was testing at eastrax a few weeks ago. I landed very badly on a rear corner after the triple, and did break a rear. That is my first and only to date.

I think i know what they are doing about it, but as i'm not 100% sure, i'll not post speculation.

[David Church]

Hey Mr SmartAlec, where did that cool sig line come from??????
You crafty bugger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Arghhhhhhhhhh:thumbsup:

[Smartalec]

I can't say 'Mr Double Veteran Champ' ........ it's niiiiiiiiice though innit? :p

[David Church]

I can't say 'Mr Double Veteran Champ' ........ it's niiiiiiiiice though innit? :p


Tell me or I will get the super glue!!!!!!!:thumbsup: haha

[Smartalec]

Alec, Well, i had no problems at all all the way through the season, so really couldn't understand what was happening when it all kicked off just after release.

However, since then, i did break one while i was testing at eastrax a few weeks ago. I landed very badly on a rear corner after the triple, and did break a rear. That is my first and only to date.

I think i know what they are doing about it, but as i'm not 100% sure, i'll not post speculation.

Thanks for the reply Matt, i'm sure they are working on a solution. I've not had any problems yet with my limited running of the car and I can't find anything at all fouling up on down/up travel. I've read the posts by Rich Lowe and the others regarding over hardening etc so we'll have to wait and see what happens. I wonder how many PM's Rich has had? LOL.
:D

[stegger]

I was told yesterday that there will be new outdrives coming very soon ;) with them coming out in the new batch of kits. They will have the hole filled in to reinforce the sides and a change to the outside edge to allow clearance of the driveshaft. Not sure about a material change didn't ask:blush: Great to see they are sorting the problem:thumbsup:

[Chrislong]

Hey Ste,
Good news init.

Even if the material doesn't change, the lack of hole will certainly make them near impossible to break. :thumbsup:

[Lee]

So they are making the hole whole :eh?:

[chris68nufc]

Lee. You so need to get more to do at work. You must get so bored!

[Chrislong]

Lee. You so need to get more to do at work. You must get so bored!

Lee has the best job in the world: Paid excessively, works minimally. :thumbsup:

[MRD]

I was with a guy at York last night and his CAT bust its rear drive cup in first practice, all he did was land the jump, no hard impact or colision. He was pretty miffed cos it was its first outing.

[Northy]

Congratulations on a GREAT post :thumbsup:

G

[chris68nufc]

You must have had a bad night Northy. That was a very funny post to reply with.

[Northy]

It wasn't my car..... ;)

G

[chris68nufc]

I meant that with your sarcasm you must be very tired therefore posted that due to tiredness. I didnt think for 1 minute that it was your car. Especially with those chrome looking super savers round your outdrives. I want some!:thumbsup:

[Northy]

Er.... yeh, sorry, I'm a bit tired :( Little girl woke up at 6.30 a.m. and two men came round at 8 a.m. to rip the front and rear doors out of the house. They did however replace them :thumbsup:

I'm in love with my outdrive savers :blush:

G

[rcracer]

Especially with those chrome looking super savers round your outdrives. I want some!:thumbsup:

can we see some pics G :thumbsup:

[Northy]

Nah :lol::lol::lol:



But only because Julie is using the camera sorting out baby pics :(

[rcracer]

Nah :lol::lol::lol:



But only because Julie is using the camera sorting out baby pics :(


aaww bum bag :lol:

[chris68nufc]

What they from? Im not too bothered as Scumy have sent me some new ones to try out.

[Northy]

Custom made :blush:

[rcracer]

Custom made :blush:

Did you have to modify the drive shafts ? did you break out the dremel ? :rolleyes:

[Northy]

I never made the savers. No mods to any of the kit parts at all :thumbsup::thumbsup:

G

[Smartalec]

Mine lasted 2 practices, 4 rounds of qualifying and two laps of the final at sunny Newbury today, then ............ rear outdrive broke :(
Car was excellent in practice on foam tyres (yep foams), organisers said any tyres were allowed but changed their minds to any off-road tyre :thumbdown: ..... still, rules is rules even if they're not clear. Car was not-so-good on minipins and struggled on the slippy stuff to be consistent. Almost all the incidents of these breaking i've heard of have been indoor racing on big jumps. I've raced outdoors on 'normal' tracks with no problem :confused: ......... can I have some outdrive savers Mr North? ..... PLEASE

[rcracer]

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=14&pictureid=970

mmmmm Northy :rolleyes:

[Smartalec]

........ Dave Church broke his in round one I think and Paul Upton broke his on the warm up lap of the B final ...... they might want some outdrive savers too Mr North ;)

[glypo]

Tyres problem may have been my fault, so apologise if it was. I put any tyres on the flyer and assumed people would realise off-road tyre (for an off-road race, albeit indoors). Sorry.

Sad you have had problems. I have broken a trillion outdrives at Newbury, but today I didn't break one, although I did put an extra spacer/limiter on all my shocks. In fact I didn't break anything today, awesome. Medium flex wishbones ftw!

Anyway, I think the new outdrives are due out next week, if not very soon indeed. With that sorted the car seems great.

[PaulUpton]

Yep i broke one on the warm up lap, just rolled the car over a small jump and it went (thanks Mr.Church for lending me his car).

I only had a o-ring limiting my shocks, as i found with any more there isnt enough travel for when landing on the jumps and tends to kick the car back up into the air!!

Had some BIG air of the jumps today with out breaking, altough the pin on the driveshaft has moved from centre causing my broken outdrive not the jumps up travel!

[strobe]

I've put 2mm alloy spacers on the outside of the shock shafts on my Cat. Plenty of big air time today at the MKGP and had several heavy landings with no breakages. Don't think 'o' rings are a solution as they compress too much on a heavy landing.

[PaulUpton]

as i said in my previous post i had done this origianlly but i feel this causes the car to kick back up under landing of jumps!

i dont think taking the washers i did have in there caused my broken outdrive, but the fact the pin had moved from centre causing the driveshaft to drop on the outdive and catch wishbone!

Paul

[Adam Bailey]

Define big air? I was busting 30 feet last friday!:woot:

Yep i broke one on the warm up lap, just rolled the car over a small jump and it went (thanks Mr.Church for lending me his car).

I only had a o-ring limiting my shocks, as i found with any more there isnt enough travel for when landing on the jumps and tends to kick the car back up into the air!!

Had some BIG air of the jumps today with out breaking, altough the pin on the driveshaft has moved from centre causing my broken outdrive not the jumps up travel!

[PaulUpton]

Define big air? I was busting 30 feet last friday!:woot:

not quite that much air, proberly 12ft. which i guess is a lot for indoors!!

[Oliv996]

Also depends how hard was the landing area :lol:

[Adam Bailey]

Yeah, when I broke mine I was on that same said jump for me and I hit it wrong and landed on the front left wheel, it snapped my arm, out drive, and bent the shock shaft and ripped the ball cup out.

Some guys were saying the car is weak, but those that saw the landing said any car that landed like would have broke...which I agreed lol

[sly]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii249/slymonuk/P221108_1409.jpg

Made these.

[J_WOODY]

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii249/slymonuk/P221108_1409.jpg

Made these.

I've just ordered a set of 4 fo £20, i just hope they do the trick, i broke my first outdrive at the weekend :thumbdown:

[burgie]

I've just ordered a set of 4 fo £20, i just hope they do the trick, i broke my first outdrive at the weekend :thumbdown:

and ste's hip. although the doctors say he should be walking again by summer. :woot:

[Spoolio]

Don't ask Gary P about outdrives, it's got to be a sore subject after this weekend. Along with exploding rear hubs, and suicidal LiPo's :thumbdown:.

Judging by the results at least you finished the final mate, and thats the one that matters.

[sly]

I've just ordered a set of 4 fo £20, i just hope they do the trick, i broke my first outdrive at the weekend :thumbdown:


Did you ask me Jay? if you did, it slipped my mind. i do have one more set to make. hanz.

[J_WOODY]

Did you ask me Jay? if you did, it slipped my mind. i do have one more set to make. hanz.

hanz said Noel was gonna knock them up on his new cnc machine, so i ordered them off him, i didn't realis you was making them for others

[sly]

hanz said Noel was gonna knock them up on his new cnc machine, so i ordered them off him, i didn't realis you was making them for others

I was gonna make hanz a set and a few more, Noel has ask me for the sizes etc.:thumbsup: so lets see what he can do.:)

[Chrislong]

Hanz has got an SX? I didn't think they'd reached ebay yet. :lol:

[dave g]

i think bally used some old bearings on his,just found some the right size and used the inner part after dismantling them.,quick fix if your desperate.

[big hans]

Hanz has got an SX? I didn't think they'd reached ebay yet. :lol:


ha ha mate not on ebay but one reached oople and i snapped it up two weeks old now under christmas tree:thumbsup:

[sly]

ha ha mate not on ebay but one reached oople and i snapped it up two weeks old now under christmas tree:thumbsup:

He`s only got it cos i beat him with my SX, and didn`t like it.:p

[Chrislong]

:lol: Its a good choice as you're proving. So how does it compare to the Kyosho? Hans, im guess you haven't run it yet?

Are any of you guys from SRCC coming over to Worksop or any NE regionals?

[big hans]

havent run it yet chris but all the ones ive seen are so smooth:thumbsup:

as im back in plaster with my hand again just manage a mardave with a wheel:thumbdown:

[Chrislong]

havent run it yet chris but all the ones ive seen are so smooth:thumbsup:

as im back in plaster with my hand again just manage a mardave with a wheel:thumbdown:

Oh sorry to hear that mate, hope the wrist recovers! Is it still screwed together with wood screws, or have they put a nut & bolt in there now? better still, have the screws been removed yet?

[big hans]

no mate theres nothing there now
took the bone out all together and going to fix a plate in:woot:

[rcracer]

The head on the diff screw snapped off mine yesterday and no it wasnt too tight :eh?:

[Chrislong]

Now thats a new one on me, how did it happen? anybody else done this?

My diffs have been super smooth, untouched since building except for swapping an outdrive after the 1st event I took it to. So I have had no need to open them up since, and I don't recall the size of these screws, id guess they're 3mm - should be strong.

[rcracer]

Suprised me too chris, clean break right under the head :o

[MattW]

Wow, animal....:confused::)

In all the years of running that diff design, don't think i've ever seen or heard of that!! Oh well, something new every day and all that!!:o

[rcracer]

Well i got to admit my son Garry was running it at the time :thumbdown:..lol

[Garry Driffill]

Well i got to admit my son Garry was running it at the time :thumbdown:..lol

Dad leant me all his gear which im greatful for and wow what a car that SX is...

Ive started saving :)

I didnt hammer the car to cause that screw to break at all... God knows why, I'll ask him...:lol:

[Cream]

I was gonna make hanz a set and a few more, Noel has ask me for the sizes etc.:thumbsup: so lets see what he can do.:)

Well look!! I'm already known on the forum and I wasn't even registered :).
Any way this is what I've made. Lets hope they do the trick.
Should just press on nicely, but may need a little lock tight or similar depending on the tolerance on the outside of the out drive itself.
This is what they look like.


http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16586
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Creamuk/Catoutdrivesavers.jpg

[Oliv996]

They look very nice :thumbsup:

Are they made in brass material ?

[Cream]

They look very nice :thumbsup:

Are they made in brass material ?


No They are Aluminium, Just taken in bad lighting :blush:

this is probably closer to the real colour. After a little tweaking in PSP.

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16586
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Creamuk/Catoutdrivesavers-1.jpg

[sly]

No They are Aluminium, Just taken in bad lighting :blush:

this is probably closer to the real colour. After a little tweaking in PSP.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/Creamuk/Catoutdrivesavers-1.jpg


Cream is a SRCC member and has some for sale (ask him for price etc).
Althougth he has a low post count he is a genuine guy and I can vouch for him being cosha. several others i`m sure will do the same.
There are made to the sizes of my CAT`s new out drive and are a snug fit.
Get pm`ing him for yours.
Si.:thumbsup:

[robknasel]

I know all of this has been said on the post already but I juts want to say it again. I raced the car for the first time on 12/5/08 in Columbus OH. The first time out my outdrive broke. Luckily I am not the type to throw objects or the car would have became a projectile as soon as I recovered it from the track. Here is my point. It cannot be denied that the outdrive is too long. The CVD comes in contact with the outdrive when an independent suspension arm is moved in its maximum travel point. Has anyone been removing the shims from the bottom of the shocks after they receive these new and improved outdrives? Has anyone actually received the new improved outdrives and have not had to modify the suspension throw to keep from breaking them? Three things need to be done, fix the overhardening, shorten the outdrive, make the outdrive tough, by getting rid of the lightening and have more material flare up at the end of outdrive, this is a common feature of most outdrives which is not present on these straight outdrives. Also if there is simply too much arm travel for the geometry of the outdrive. Make a lower profile shock tower that would place the shocks lower. The problem with these outdrives have greatly reduced the handling of the car. In my opinion Schumacher has only one chance to get this right. If they keep delaying in fixing the true issues with these outdrives the word will spread so fast regarding the issue, no one will care when the problem is fixed the cars reputation will already be tarnished.
My two cents
Rob Knasel

[Spoolio]

Buy a Durga, thats my 2 cents worth of advice :lol:.

[ThePromise]

Hello,

I was wondering for quite a while how to solve the problem, but finally I found a solution which is easy to realize and quite cheap. I didn't want to stay at my workbench for too long, so I made these in just a little more than twenty minutes. Just bought a brass tube with a 10mm inner diameter, cut off 2mm pieces and glued them onto the outdrives with a special metal-glue. It works just fine. Just check the pictures. Thanks to Ralf Missel for giving the idea;-)

Best regards,
Chris

[Oliv996]

It looks very sweet :wub

[ThePromise]

...and as I already mentioned quite easy to make! So to speak "idiot-save":lol:

[ThePromise]

Buy a Durga, thats my 2 cents worth of advice :lol:.

Hopefully that's not ment too serious..I've tested the Durga, my opinion: Just a bunch of plastic for around 200 Euros, not even worth it...and not even delivered with a slipperclutch, I'm sorry, no real alternative.

Just my 2 cents....

Best, Chris

[ThePromise]

Hello,

I was wondering for quite a while how to solve the problem, but finally I found a solution which is easy to realize and quite cheap. I didn't want to stay at my workbench for too long, so I made these in just a little more than twenty minutes. Just bought a brass tube with a 10mm inner diameter, cut off 2mm pieces and glued them onto the outdrives with a special metal-glue. It works just fine. Just check the pictures. Thanks to Ralf Missel for giving the idea;-)

Best regards,
Chris


I've got these on sale now. 4pcs including shipping to England or wherever in Europe is 5 Euro total. Paypal welcome. Just send me a mail or pm. info@rc-car-setup.com

best,
chris

[robknasel]

Hello,
Has anyone received the new better and improved not so hardened outdrives?
Also has anyone installed the outdrives and then been brave enough to removed the shims on the bottom of their shock shafts. This is not a dead issue and dont understand the lack of discussion regarding this defect. Also I have not received replacement parts for parts missing in the original kit. I also had two holes in the rear of the kit that were not countersunk. I also received a shock body that had a huge deep scratch in it. I have sent a email to ADAM BAILEY at Schumacher USA and had no parts arrive. That was Thanksgiving day. I called and the response from ADAM was he had not gotten to it yet. When I asked him if the problem was fixed with the outdrives he stated yes, although he has not removed the shims that limit the shock travel. Well I am sick of the quality and service of Schumacher and Schumacher USA and I have posted my barely used one weekend only raced CAT SX. If any of you die hard Schumacher fans would like to buy it please go to the listing and make a bid. I truly have only ran this car for 3 races. First qualifier it broke, recieved parts from guy at track, ran two more qualifiers and ran the main. And that is the extent of the use. So if you still believe the CAT is the car for you, check it out.
Rob Knasel

[paulc]

hi

no i have'nt used the new outdrives but do you really need to take the shims out if you are using them ?

as for the service from schumacher for me it has been first class and i think alot of other people who come on this forum will say the same

paul

[glypo]

This is not a dead issue and dont understand the lack of discussion regarding this defect.

Rob... wtf?

You say that on a thread dedicated to the issue with 150 replies and 6,500 views. Not to mention the post in sticky with advice about the issue from the very moment the car was released!

I am fed up with the outdrives as much as everyone else but it's hardly the worse thing in the world. With or without the fixed outdrives you should shim the suspension, you don't want the driveshafts fowling anything.

Once shimmed it's fine. It's sad you had a bad experience, but worse things have happened. I wouldn't give up racing a car because one of the components had a scratch on it!

[General Accident]

Rob... wtf?

I wouldn't give up racing a car because one of the components had a scratch on it!

I think he means the inside of the shock body has a scratch/gouge rather than a cosmetic scuff on the outside. If I'd got this in a new kit I wouldn't be too happy about it either, but I agree it's smacks of cutting your nose off to spite your face just to bail out so soon. Still, it wouldn't do for us all to be the same I guess.

[robknasel]

Guys or Mates,
It is not the fact that I had to countersink two holes, make the steering linkage because it was missing, or polish the inside of a shock body just to use it, it is the fact that it was a new kit. I called Schumacher USA, they stated this has been the case multiple times, and here a month or so later I still have no parts. The best answer I received after calling the second time was, I had not got to it. What if the guy at the track had not given me the outdrive to continue to run that day. I would still be without a car after doing a hour worth of mods just to get it to run the first time. Just bought a TRF-501X, and I can say the car went to together perfectly not a single issue. Using two sets of instructions to build the car is my only complaint. I bought the Worlds Edition. I owned one of the first Schumacher Cats back in the late 80's in the US and loved the car then. Well it was tops, nothing could compete. It was a large upgrade from my Yokomo Dogfighter. But I dont feel the same way this time and it is disappointing and costly.
Rob Knasel

[BlackedOutMugen]

Im in the US, so im not running on the tracks you guys are. How ever im running on a pretty high traction indoor clay track, with a 5.5, and a TrakPower lipo its got some power

I have no shock limiters, or anything. Running Adams setup, and have had no issues. I have ran it for a good 3 hours so far. Things looks brand new

-Brandon

[robknasel]

Blackedoutmugen,
Adam is running limiters on his car. When I say limiters I mean spacers at the bottom of his shock rods. This keeps the car from having full suspension travel as designed. Sounds like you have been lucky or they truly have fixed the issue. It means that the outdrive is flexing and not snapping off. The design is bad, see my explanation above. The outdrive should never be subjected to those stresses. The outdrive should only be subjected to rotational forces and the suspension should not play a role in the breakage of the part, once again, poor design.
Rob Knasel

[robknasel]

Hello,
Be sure to order a few of these parts for your CAT SX, Also front arms, the plastic and non composite front arms will hold up a little better.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm312/robknasel/DSC00097.jpg

[BlackedOutMugen]

Yeah, im not running any spacers. And I havent had any issues.

Maybe its the high traction? I mean mine will come very close, but they dont rub at all (need a pic?). But still thats a good 4-5mm over being bottomed out. IDK when your shocks would get compressed to that point? Bumpy azz track, or what?

-Brandon

[robknasel]

Blackoutmugen,
They get compressed beyond the chassis being bottomed out when the car lands on one wheel at a angle. Mine broke on the rear outdrive, but it doesnt matter what wheel it is. Take you car at a angle, not perfectly level, make it come down and compress the shock fully, notice how the CVD contacts the side of the outdrive. This acts just like taking a screwdriver and prying the outdrive in two pieces. Not pretty.

[BlackedOutMugen]

Blackoutmugen,
They get compressed beyond the chassis being bottomed out when the car lands on one wheel at a angle. Mine broke on the rear outdrive, but it doesnt matter what wheel it is. Take you car at a angle, not perfectly level, make it come down and compress the shock fully, notice how the CVD contacts the side of the outdrive. This acts just like taking a screwdriver and prying the outdrive in two pieces. Not pretty.

Yea I guess thats true. Haha sorry

But still, my shocks 100% compressed dont rub, or go as far as some pics here... I wonder if my rod ends are farther out then your guys? Either way, it comes close, but doesnt make contact. Front or rear. I didnt go off of adams shock length now I think of it, I dont have my digital caliper, so I probably measured it, and its off by a little bit?

[Mossy]

Blackedoutmugen,
The outdrive should only be subjected to rotational forces and the suspension should not play a role in the breakage of the part, once again, poor design.
Rob Knasel

Not sure how you can call it poor design? I have ran the Cat since the prototype with no limiters anywhere on the car to restrict the travel at the back end. We have only had a problem with the outdrives recently which everyone knows is an issue with the material. I have ran the new outdrives and they are fine.

Must admit seems a little hasty to get rid of the car after 3 races.

Si

[sime46]

I think you'd find it difficult to find a car manufacturer that not only listens to customers opinions but actively goes out of their way to help their drivers/customers. The outdrive fault is well documented on here and they've fixed it. New ones are coming through. I have some. Problem solved. I personally struggled with set up or a while but spoke to Andy at PBM who in turn spoke to Phil Booth who supplied me with the set up I now run(and its mint). I spose the point I'm making is that they listened and fixed it. Always accesible. I have never had that with any other team/manufaturer. Its a great car so I say stick with it.

[BlackedOutMugen]

Not sure how you can call it poor design? I have ran the Cat since the prototype with no limiters anywhere on the car to restrict the travel at the back end. We have only had a problem with the outdrives recently which everyone knows is an issue with the material. I have ran the new outdrives and they are fine.

Must admit seems a little hasty to get rid of the car after 3 races.

Si

Yeah exactly. 3 races isnt nearly long enough to dial a car in IMO...

Poor design no. It may of had a problem but what car doesnt? Schumacher got on it and fixed it. :thumbsup:

I think you'd find it difficult to find a car manufacturer that not only listens to customers opinions but actively goes out of their way to help their drivers/customers. The outdrive fault is well documented on here and they've fixed it. New ones are coming through. I have some. Problem solved. I personally struggled with set up or a while but spoke to Andy at PBM who in turn spoke to Phil Booth who supplied me with the set up I now run(and its mint). I spose the point I'm making is that they listened and fixed it. Always accesible. I have never had that with any other team/manufaturer.

Its a great car so I say stick with it.


I could go on about this car. I just love it, the B44, D4, Lazer, 501 etc are all nice cars, but IMO Schumacher took it to the next level, and the car really stands out in my eyes. I know I couldnt be happier!:thumbsup::D:woot:

[robknasel]

I understand the feedback that I am receiving regarding the car, and I did expect it. I really was motivated to post my story regarding the car because of the experience I have had. Also I truly wanted to know if anyone has had a similar experience but no longer has had the problem. I really havent heard anyone state that they have received replacement outdrives and removed their spacers. There has been nearly 300 views of this thread since I posted my first post and no one has really said they have received new and improved outdrives. With the issue occuring so quickly and almost in my mind predictable I really wonder. It was almost like I read the post regarding the issue and had a feeling that my car would have the same problem. Nothing like being at the track, everyone checking out your newest edition and then watching it break in the warmup laps. I was racing this last weekend and told the guy here in Ohio about the car being for sale. He runs a Schumacher and asked me why I was selling it. He said basically that I had given up on the car too quick. 20 minutes later he was taking his first warmup lap and broke a front arm. Maybe the car is just cursed at our track. WAGGZ you know this is true, speak up if you read this.
Thanks for reading
Rob Knasel

[MattW]

You talk about these issues being predictable - i'm not sure that's fair or true. I'm sure both Simon and myself have posted in this thread more than once that we ran a season (including testing), without breaking an outdrive between us. I think i'm right in saying, that at time of release of the car, ZERO outdrives had been broken (there may have been one, i'm not 100% sure on this to be honest). So was the problem on launch predictable?? Well I wouldn't have predicted it.

After the first weekend of production cars being run (and some breakages) the head of R+D called me to confirm his thoughts that i hadn't broken any - this i did, so could it have been predicted?? No, not for me.

It appears to me, that the material on the production parts is ever so slightly different, and that why it happened, and that's why they moved to sort it. I haven't run the new parts, but i have seen some. I have also seen someone try and break one in a pair of pliers, and he couldn't even dent it. So for me, it looks like it's fixed.

Fair play, you've had your issues, and your entitled to your views, but i do think you're being a touch unfair. As for breakages of plastics, show me a car that doesn't break - and i'll show you one that hasn't even been crashed.

[robknasel]

I appreciate your feedback. One piece of information is that two out of two Cat SX has broken the outdrive. I believe that WAGGZ has broken more than one. I know that he had broke many times from what the other guys were saying and if I had know this history would have steered clear of the car
Rob Knasel

[glypo]

Rob you really don't seem to understand the situation.

The car was released only at the end of September, therefore the problem is a first batch issue. Matt is a team driver, hence been driving the car a long time along with Simon. The fact that they didn't break any shows that when the outdrives are not overhardened there isn't an issue.

Schumacher are sorting this though, using correct hardening and they also have removed the lightening slot so it will be even better than what Matt and Simon have used.

I am not sure if these are out yet, I have been told they are but not seen yet.

[waggz]

You are correct I did break one outdrive. That was from getting punted into pit lane. I put the spacers on just to be safe. So that is true I did break one.

The only other thing that I broke have been the carbon arms. That is to be expected with Carbon parts and the one I broke during warm up is when I clocked the tube on the straight, that was my fault not the cars.

I switched to the Medium Flex arms and went out and turned in my best run ever with the car since I knew i could push it. Heck I was in 3rd in the main until the hackfest started.

EVERY new car will have its issues. When I helped OCM with their truggy it was the same thing and they fixed their material issues.

AE had the exact same problem on the GT2 with a material issue. Things happen I don't think it is the design but oh well. I really enjoy the car.



Waggz

[BlackedOutMugen]

You are correct I did break one outdrive. That was from getting punted into pit lane. I put the spacers on just to be safe. So that is true I did break one.

The only other thing that I broke have been the carbon arms. That is to be expected with Carbon parts and the one I broke during warm up is when I clocked the tube on the straight, that was my fault not the cars.

I switched to the Medium Flex arms and went out and turned in my best run ever with the car since I knew i could push it. Heck I was in 3rd in the main until the hackfest started.

Just curious how big of a spacer are you using? Im going to keep running with out them. But im curious how much suspension travel is limited. Mine dont rub as it is with no shims. Close but doesnt

I havent broken a stock arm yet. But sounds like the med flex arms are super tough? May have to order some:lol:

EVERY new car will have its issues. When I helped OCM with their truggy it was the same thing and they fixed their material issues.

AE had the exact same problem on the GT2 with a material issue. Things happen I don't think it is the design but oh well. I really enjoy the car.



Waggz

Exactly! The Cat SX is a AWESOME buggy, and the problem is getting fixed. What more can one ask for? Its like buying a brand spanking new car model, or computer or anything, theres always bound to be problems. Some come right out and fix them like Schumacher is, or for some it takes forever to get the issues fixed.

-Brandon:thumbsup:

[waggz]

it is like a 2 or 3mm spacer. The medium flex arms make a big difference. I drove my car like i hated it and had zero issues.

[robknasel]

If they have redesigned the outdrive then it sounds like they have truly taken some steps to fix the problem. To sorta go full circle on this statement of mine, it has been since Thanksgiving and I have not seen any of these fixes sent to me, no parts, no explantions, no emails, from Schumacher USA. Must I hound them to receive my parts, I have better things to do. Waggz, I do appreciate your comments. And yes it was a hackfest, hope we have a better weekend this week. I will be trying the TRF-501X and running the Yokomo again. See you there.
Rob Knasel

[waggz]

If they have redesigned the outdrive then it sounds like they have truly taken some steps to fix the problem. To sorta go full circle on this statement of mine, it has been since Thanksgiving and I have not seen any of these fixes sent to me, no parts, no explantions, no emails, from Schumacher USA. Must I hound them to receive my parts, I have better things to do. Waggz, I do appreciate your comments. And yes it was a hackfest, hope we have a better weekend this week. I will be trying the TRF-501X and running the Yokomo again. See you there.
Rob Knasel

No problem that is what I am here for.

Better bring your big boy pants this weekend because it is on like donkey kong:p

[BlackedOutMugen]

it is like a 2 or 3mm spacer. The medium flex arms make a big difference. I drove my car like i hated it and had zero issues.

Hmm, ok

And that sounds great LOL. I will order some for spares:thumbsup::lol:

[lee stokes]

i am in the uk and schumacher can not do enough for you here i ran mine for the first time at grimsby week before christmas and the car was great but on the third run off a one foot high ramp the rear female outdrive snapped i rang schumacher the next day and i was lucky the new updated outdrives and just landed
i had a full set the next day now fitted to my car i am waiting for the next meeting tomorrow to try it out
i also had a diff problem schumacher could n't help enough
the manual has the wrong part no for servo arm schumacher sorted it for me
i have never had a schumacher before so have no contacts etc to get any better service etc than any one else i presume i am just lucky living in the uk , if anyone from schumacher is reading this many thanks and see you at worksop

[MattW]

Rob, obviously i'm in the UK, so i know nothing about how things are in the US. However, most people here and on RCTech seem happy with the service they recieve - so if you're not, i'd call them.

Like Glypo said, i have been running the car for a long time - maybe feb/march last year.

My understanding of the new outdrives was that there were going to alter the material/treatment and have them made without the slot.hole. They definitely have no slot now, and like i said, when we tried to break one with pliers, we couldn't.

[PaulUpton]

Yep we certainly couldn't break the new ones I had pliers between my legs sqeezing but didn't break, original ones just broke so easy hardley any pressure at all!

[Chrislong]

Can you post the setup you ran when you snapped the outdrive? As a little issue I believe is that the setup you build into the car when following the instructions gives lots of camber change and driveshaft plunge which exagerates the fact that the bone is close/touching the outdrive.

With a setup on such as I have posted, the dogbones are miles away from the outdrive. I still run spacers.

Don't be fooled by thinking if the bone is smidges dick away from the outdrive it is fine, on the track things flex, and the car is under tremendous forces and so I recomend playing it safe.

I was an early outdrive snapper, I did it with a car built exactly to manual - and I have since received a big handful of FOC outdrives and have never broken another.

So as for them being weak, well they aren't designed to be prised apart - but once that dealt with using a proper setup, then id say not. The fact they have made changes is very pleasing, and just compounds that I think Schumacher is an excellent company.

Chris

[glypo]

Outdrives are finally available!

At last I can race my CAT again and finish my follow-on review. :)

I only popped into MK Racing to get my LiPo packs too. They look much better, hopefully run better too :thumbsup:

[Cassp0nk]

I picked up my new CAT from MK this afternoon too. Got the new parts in the box, although not sure what camber link.

[BlackedOutMugen]

WERE SET! And the car is DIALED!!!:p:p:woot::woot::woot::drool:


http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq259/BlackedOutREVO/photo-6.jpg

[Oliv996]

If I place an order for U3336 and U3337 diff outputs will I receive the new ones:confused:

What difference does it make compared with the old ones?

[Somerwil]

Are the new outdrives included in the newer kits? If so, how do I know they are in there? I'm looking for a Phil Booth so if someone can ensure me these are on that car, I would be really happy :-)

Gr,
Michael

[DaveG28]

Are the new outdrives included in the newer kits? If so, how do I know they are in there? I'm looking for a Phil Booth so if someone can ensure me these are on that car, I would be really happy :-)

Gr,
Michael

My booth spec certainly doesn't have the lightening holes, so I think they are the new ones! Not sure if any of the first Booth ones had the old ones though!?

[stegger]

I've had the new outdrives on order since the monday after the petit race and still haven't received them :confused: don't know if it's schumacher or my LHS :thumbdown:

[Somerwil]

OK great! Thanks for your reply Dave

[muzzy]

All new Schumacher Cat SX cars now come with the new out drives in as standard :thumbsup:
Also if you now order part number U3336 and U3337, you shall receive the new out drives as these have now just come back into stock, and as a running change have just replaced the older versions. So if anyone has these on order with your local model shop you might want to just ask them to ask us to run their back orders then the parts shall be allocated to that shop and sent out.
Hope this clears up any confusion.

[stegger]

Muzzy, cheers for the info fella. Will get dave to give you a bell tomorrow concerning the backorder :thumbsup:

[BlackedOutMugen]

Or you can call Shawn or Adam, they will hook you up!!:D

[lochness42]

Someone else that managed to break front oneway outdrive? I did during practicing in Vienna.
Unfortunately I didn't have enough parts for my Cat SX (I have SX with older diff outdrives and had only one pair as spare) so I ended racing with my XX4 which haven't passed 3 days stress test. It broke on clean jumps in last 2 finals.

I must admit that SX handles really nice, but unfortunately I didn't have more time to test it.

[telboy]

I broke my first outdrive on sunday!! Yaaaaay :woot:
I was starting to feel left out!:p

Just clipped the inside of a track marker on the first lap of the second round. It managed 2 laps before it 'actually' snaped off though.
I saw it lift the front wheel really high as it did it, so I was expecting it to happen.:) The hit was extreme in terms of wishbone angle, but I've never had any problems with landing off of jumps though.

[MHeadling]

Sorry to bring this up! Just wondered how people are getting on with the new out drives? Many breakages?

I'm just thinking of putting some out drive savers on my Phil Booth Cat or if the new out drives are up to the job?

[stegger]

Mark, never had any of the new outdrives break :thumbsup: and i haven't heared of any break either.

[MHeadling]

My phil booth kit I bought about 6 weeks ago came with old style out drives, do you think Schumacher will send me new versions if I send my old ones back? Bit annoyed really as you would expect them to be on it!

[Chrislong]

Unusual this, which shop was it from? Contact the shop first, they may have had this kit in stock for a few weeks before you bought it and therefore didn't get this part upgrade. They may be able to liaise with Schumacher for you, if they can't/won't then only at that point give Schumacher a call.

There is not much wrong with the lightweight/old outdrives. Ive been running them since September 2008 and I broke 1 when the setup caused the driveshaft to hit the slot, and I broke 1 at Talywain when the straight sent me cartwheeling and that ripped one corner off with it - so not suprised really (Ive actually repaired it with another old/lightweight outdrive)

Chris

[Jan Larsen]

My original outdrives lasted until yesterday. Plenty of 5,5/carpet torture for almost half a year, then it decides to pack up with a 9,5T in it. Go figure. Not a single issue with the updated ones so far.

[restimax]

i have broken one at the rear of my cat with diff in high position, today, and another driver have broken, last week....:thumbdown::(

[stegger]

i have broken one at the rear of my cat with diff in high position, today, and another driver have broken, last week....:thumbdown::(
Is this the new style one's ? :confused: never heard of a new one breaking.

[mikeyscott]

How do you tell the old and new out drives apart again?

[ben]

The old ones have a hole in. New ones are solid

[mikeyscott]

Cool

Looks like my mates one way has the old ones though

[Brooks]

Can the one way out drives break as well then?????

[restimax]

Is this the new style one's ? :confused: never heard of a new one breaking.

no older...

but now i wont change all...:(

[lochness42]

Can the one way out drives break as well then?????

Mine did.

[AmiSMB]

Cool

Looks like my mates one way has the old ones though

The one ways are made from a different material and the outputs are alot shorter so do not get caught up at full droop. It is only the standard diff output drives with the hole that have the issue.

[mikeyscott]

The one ways are made from a different material and the outputs are alot shorter so do not get caught up at full droop. It is only the standard diff output drives with the hole that have the issue.

Cheers for clarification.

[geerno]

Is this the new style one's ? :confused: never heard of a new one breaking.

I had 5 new ones break within 2 months. 2 on the front due to a big jump with a small landing that our club put in. 3 on the rear when the rear shock mod was done, on much smaller jumps.

Running a couple of o-rings on the rear shock shafts now to limit travel, no problem since.

[mikeyscott]

I had 5 new ones break within 2 months. 2 on the front due to a big jump with a small landing that our club put in. 3 on the rear when the rear shock mod was done, on much smaller jumps.

Running a couple of o-rings on the rear shock shafts now to limit travel, no problem since.

Which is why I'm looking at going back to the standard shock mounting after this weekend.

Going to run it once to see what it's like and then go back

[restimax]

new outdrives....
but when i put the ball bearing, this not fit good...have some play in to outdrives...:thumbdown: