KF low grip conversion

[johnboy]

KF low grip set

http://www.redrc.net/2014/04/schumacher-cougar-kf-low-grip-conversion-set/

[CARB]

Hi

How come Schumacher have not just released a complete low grip KF kit to replace the SV2 or is this grip level getting a little to specialised.

Where does the line stop or will we be seeing kits for "hardly any grip", "low to medium grip", "quite a lot of grip", "high grip", "absolutely mega high you have never seen before grip" conversions available shortly.

"Wanting to use you Cougar KF all year round now becomes possible with this low grip conversion set"

Mind you having a few more ace looking Schumacher cars on the shelf, now they are switching over to the all black scheme is something to enjoy.

regards

[badger5]

I get the feeling Schumacher are still finding out about the KF chassis and are possibly surprised at the cars popularity and how quick it can be driven in conditions it shouldn't be able to.
Perhaps this will spell the end of the SV chassis as it doesn't make sense to have three 2wd cars in the line up when the KF can handle mid to high grip and the KR for low grip. Perhaps there will be an updated KF coming out later on this year or next with the new type chassis so that owners can change the car to how they want.

[The Dark Knight]

I get the feeling Schumacher are still finding out about the KF chassis and are possibly surprised at the cars popularity and how quick it can be driven in conditions it shouldn't be able to.
Perhaps this will spell the end of the SV chassis as it doesn't make sense to have three 2wd cars in the line up when the KF can handle mid to high grip and the KR for low grip. Perhaps there will be an updated KF coming out later on this year or next with the new type chassis so that owners can change the car to how they want.

I agree with you, hence the reason why Schumacher haven't released a new SV2 inline with the rest of there new "black themed" car.

I've just bought a KF myself to use all year around so might try out this new conversion once I've driven the buggy stock.

[The Dark Knight]

Has anyone got any more feedback on this low grip conversion? I'm interested to hear how it is going on grass?

[Kelk]

I'm just about to build one - I only ever race on astro but happy to do a back to back comparison with the standard kf if people want once it's built?

[The Dark Knight]

I'm just about to build one - I only ever race on astro but happy to do a back to back comparison with the standard kf if people want once it's built?

Cool, that'd be great if you could thanks.

Having just got my KF, I'll be running it mostly standard to start with apart from alloy rear blocks & a shorty conversion.

Do you know if the low grip conversion chassis is the same thickness? I'm aware it has two sets of motor mount holes, one to move the motor further to the rear & one in the standard position.

[/tobys]

I've heard its thinner than the kit chassis.

[Kelk]

Cool, that'd be great if you could thanks.

Having just got my KF, I'll be running it mostly standard to start with apart from alloy rear blocks & a shorty conversion.

Do you know if the low grip conversion chassis is the same thickness? I'm aware it has two sets of motor mount holes, one to move the motor further to the rear & one in the standard position.

As soon as I pick it up from the post office I'll be able to measure it.

The aim is to build it with all the same settings (camber, ride height, oils, etc) as my current KF and then see how it drives with the obvious difference being shorties and the motor slung back.

From that point forward I'll then tweak for wet conditions.

[James]

The huge popularity of the KF kit I believe has led Schumacher to put extra development focus on the KF, allowing it to be a more allround car.

I built up a new kit with the low grip chassis for the oople series at Stotfold this weekend, I had both my cars running and back to backed both, the track was slippy at first and the low grip car was better as expected, I tried both again when the track dried and decided on the low grip for the rest of the meeting - which remained dry and very high grip.

The low traction car has a less twitchy front end and a little easier to drive on some of these very high grip types of astro I think..

Good thing is you can keep the same chassis and just move the gearbox etc back and forward.

[The Dark Knight]

The hug popularity of the KF kit I believe has led Schumacher to put extra development focus on the KF, allowing it to be a more allround car.

I built up a new kit with the low grip chassis for the oople series at Stotfold this weekend, I had both my cars running and back to backed both, the track was slippy at first and the low grip car was better as expected, I tried both again when the track dried and decided on the low grip for the rest of the meeting - which remained dry and very high grip.

The low traction car has a less twitchy front end and a little easier to drive on some of these very high grip types of astro I think..

Good thing is you can keep the same chassis and just move the gearbox etc back and forward.

Thanks for this, good hearing some feedback. I plan on using my KF as an allround car too.

[Kelk]

Do you know if the low grip conversion chassis is the same thickness?

Just got it from the PO. Measured the thickness - original chassis 2.68mm, low grip is 2.63mm. So basically as near as damn it

Nice little package really, interesting thing is that the original, shorty lipo conversion and the low grip belts are all different numbers of teeth. I had assumed the shorty and the low grip would be the same but apparently not

The build starts imminently.

[PaulRotheram]

Just got it from the PO. Measured the thickness - original chassis 2.68mm, low grip is 2.63mm. So basically as near as damn it

Nice little package really, interesting thing is that the original, shorty lipo conversion and the low grip belts are all different numbers of teeth. I had assumed the shorty and the low grip would be the same but apparently not

The build starts imminently.

Thats due to the motor being moved back 21mm.

I've settled on running the low grip conversion my self, as James says - the car just feels abit easier to drive. The rear end does not rotate as quick as the standard KF, and just seems a better balanced car for an outdoor track.

In wet conditions, the car has alot of drive and decent side bite - I was very surprised as initially I did not believe the car would go as well as it did.

I made zero changes from running in the dry and wet, just changed to the correct tyres and in both instances the car went well - very ideal.

I just wish the rear alloy upper trans would hurry up :(

[Kelk]

I just wish the rear alloy upper trans would hurry up :(

Spoke to schumacher today - they reckon 3-4 weeks away so I'm going to take mine off the "dry" car

[gazhillAE]

Thats due to the motor being moved back 21mm.

I've settled on running the low grip conversion my self, as James says - the car just feels abit easier to drive. The rear end does not rotate as quick as the standard KF, and just seems a better balanced car for an outdoor track.

In wet conditions, the car has alot of drive and decent side bite - I was very surprised as initially I did not believe the car would go as well as it did.

I made zero changes from running in the dry and wet, just changed to the correct tyres and in both instances the car went well - very ideal.

I just wish the rear alloy upper trans would hurry up :(

And ball diffs ! U4199 another 2-3 weeks away! :(

[Ross]

Can you buy a complete car kit with the new chassis or just the conversion kit.

[mark christopher]

James/paul take it then if you are running the low grip layout, do you have to run shorty, or are you running the low grip kit by in normal layout?

[Kelk]

James/paul take it then if you are running the low grip layout, do you have to run shorty, or are you running the low grip kit by in normal layout?

I'm sure they will comment but as far as I can see from both the instructions and the actual build, standard lipos won't fit

[madmulc]

I dont see the point in have a convertion for the KF and also buy more batteries which have to be charged just incase you change the set up. The KF was designed for high grip so why mess with it. I love my KF and I love my SV2 lets leave it at that.

If schumacher are not carful they will turn the KF into the SX3, a very nice car but a pig to set up which will put people off. Simple is best and thats what has made the SV2, K1 and KF so popular.

Dont get me wrong I also love my SX3 and K1 but i do prefer the K1. as its simple.

[mark christopher]

Got to be honest in the damp at oOple stotfold I ran my sv2 in the damp, won my heat, in the dry I ran my kf, in one round there was spots of rain,many rushed to swap tyres to damps, I switched on sv2, looked at sky and decided it was passing, swapped back to dry kf as cars doing warm up lap, won the heat..... I'm staying with the two I have.

[PaulRotheram]

And ball diffs ! U4199 another 2-3 weeks away! :(

I've went away from using the ball diff and finding the gear diff is alot more to my liking, even in the wet. A good few at our club have went to this now.. however the ball diff is a good option to have in your box.

Can you buy a complete car kit with the new chassis or just the conversion kit.

No, when i spoke to Tris this was not in the pipeline to do, maybe they may in the future, who knows.
However for £250 ( plenty of model shops are priced around this region) you get a very competitive car for mega high grip. Add £79.99 for the conversion and you have a superb all rounder for the outdoor environment.

Start out with shorties and you do not need to buy two types of cells, adding weight to the shortie gives the same desired effect of running saddles.

James/paul take it then if you are running the low grip layout, do you have to run shorty, or are you running the low grip kit by in normal layout?

You have to run a shortie when in low grip mode, with the motor being shifted back 21mm something has to give and the shortie gives that clearance to do so.

I also have both cars, KF and SV2 and used either for each condition. However i much prefer having the one car, one set of electronics, and the option to convert that car to a high grip animal for the indoor season.

Something to bare in mind, at stotfold it is a singular surface, when the grip is high, 100% of the track is high. On a multi surface track like Kidderminster or Southport the KF is manageable. However the low grip conversion comes in to its element when you hit concrete, cobbles or tarmac - the car pushes slightly, whereas the KF will want to fishtail.

I dont see the point in have a convertion for the KF and also buy more batteries which have to be charged just incase you change the set up. The KF was designed for high grip so why mess with it. I love my KF and I love my SV2 lets leave it at that.

You can run shorties in both the KF and the KFLG conversion, if you wish to run the same weight as a standard KF with saddles then add some weight in front of the shortie.

If schumacher are not carful they will turn the KF into the SX3, a very nice car but a pig to set up which will put people off. Simple is best and thats what has made the SV2, K1 and KF so popular.

How will they turn a proven car in to a car that is a pig to setup? The stock KF is a huge success, and well deserved as it is an animal.
The low grip conversion simply lets that mass amount who have bought the KF for indoor racing bring their car outdoors and get it going alot easier - I see that as doing us all a favour?

Dont get me wrong I also love my SX3 and K1 but i do prefer the K1. as its simple.


The main change to the car with the low grip conversion is removing weight from the front end, shorties are the counter effect of doing this as more space is needed at the rear of the car to house the motor / layshafts.

There are some very competitive prices for a BRCA legal shortie lipo at the moment, both LRP and intellect have fantastic prices.

[PaulRotheram]

Also to keep in mind, the current trend in 2wd offroad is the apparent need for two cars, one low grip, one high grip.

Put this in to numbers;

Set of electronics ( priced up my own equipment, LRP, sanwa, savox) excl batteries £335
KF £250
TTL £585

Set of electronics excl batteries £335
SV2 £195
TTL £530

To have both the KF and a SV2 it would total £1115

To buy the KF, with a low grip conversion, electronics, PLUS a shortie it would total £715.

A saving of £400 and you get a car that is able to work everywhere. No brainer??

[James]

James/paul take it then if you are running the low grip layout, do you have to run shorty, or are you running the low grip kit by in normal layout?

Im running the low grip layout with shorty and ball diff. I tried it at RHR last night and prefer it there too so pretty sure it will become my main car now. The shorty in the standard layout is poor in my opinion, but with the new layout I think its excellent in high and low :)

[mark christopher]

Something to bare in mind, at stotfold it is a singular surface, when the grip is high, 100% of the track is high. On a multi surface track like Kidderminster or Southport the KF is manageable. However the low grip conversion comes in to its element when you hit concrete, cobbles or tarmac - the car pushes slightly, whereas the KF will want to fishtail.






only doing oople series and local rhr regionals so only southport to cope with ;-)

im lucky enough to have all my cars fully ready to go by flicking a switch and selecting the model, cost has been done!

[mark christopher]

Im running the low grip layout with shorty and ball diff. I tried it at RHR last night and prefer it there too so pretty sure it will become my main car now. The shorty in the standard layout is poor in my opinion, but with the new layout I think its excellent in high and low :)

cheers James that's what I was trying to ask/get the answer for

[Kelk]

The build is done bar the shouting (alignment, electrics to go in, aerial tube) and the quality is again excellent on the build...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/Kelk111r/RC%20Cars/4E070AED-1B28-4515-AA8F-C7CA57A2806C_zps5oeoj7cv.jpg (http://s118.photobucket.com/user/Kelk111r/media/RC%20Cars/4E070AED-1B28-4515-AA8F-C7CA57A2806C_zps5oeoj7cv.jpg.html)

I know it's a 21 mm move but it looks huge compared to the standard.

The only questions / comments I have are:

1) why does the instructions state that the way to change a battery is to remove the side pods? For those that are already using it have you dremeled away the side pod to give further access or just leaving cells in the car to charge (implications at BRCA event?) or what?

2) why have they not accommodated for the fact that the motor has moved back and put a 2nd hole ot access the motor positioning screw in the side pod? I guess it's reamer time right?

If I've been a numpty then please do say

A couple of other pics...

Showing the "lack" of aligned access...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/Kelk111r/RC%20Cars/3213B4A7-BD60-4EF4-B2FA-519556C0E022_zpsx0sg2mmz.jpg (http://s118.photobucket.com/user/Kelk111r/media/RC%20Cars/3213B4A7-BD60-4EF4-B2FA-519556C0E022_zpsx0sg2mmz.jpg.html)

Side view...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o111/Kelk111r/RC%20Cars/B8CA623C-8BA6-47B9-91E5-6D8A6D80B6C9_zps5yp9rnh4.jpg (http://s118.photobucket.com/user/Kelk111r/media/RC%20Cars/B8CA623C-8BA6-47B9-91E5-6D8A6D80B6C9_zps5yp9rnh4.jpg.html)

So for those that are already running with this - any tips or advice?

Thanks

[madmulc]

Also to keep in mind, the current trend in 2wd offroad is the apparent need for two cars, one low grip, one high grip.

Put this in to numbers;

Set of electronics ( priced up my own equipment, LRP, sanwa, savox) excl batteries £335
KF £250
TTL £585

Set of electronics excl batteries £335
SV2 £195
TTL £530

To have both the KF and a SV2 it would total £1115

To buy the KF, with a low grip conversion, electronics, PLUS a shortie it would total £715.

A saving of £400 and you get a car that is able to work everywhere. No brainer??

I agree but as I have all the cars above but no shorties, I stand to be out of pocket. If you look on oople u will see that I designed the KF well over 12 months ago. http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112797 (http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112797)
I guess im going to have to go back to the drawing board and design it again so it can run saddles with the new chassis lol

[dwp102]

Was Darrenbloomfield running the mmotor in the rearward position at Southport today?

[jonathan may]

Was Darrenbloomfield running the mmotor in the rearward position at Southport today?
looked like it from the picture of his car if you look in the side window

[jonathan may]

ran my low grip chassis today at mendip off road track was amazing loads of rear grip and steering and took the bump better then standard layout I felt

[danmurphy]

Anyone know what type of diff the top Schumacher guys were running in the kf at Southport national?

[gazhillAE]

Anyone know what type of diff the top Schumacher guys were running in the kf at Southport national?

Ball with a few other bits :D

[wrighty]

Anyone know what belt the low grip uses

[jonathan may]

Anyone know what belt the low grip uses
117 tooth

[wrighty]

117 tooth

So thats longer then kit ??

[nottmboy]

Anyone know what belt the low grip uses

the low grip conversion uses a 103t belt, the shorty conversion uses the 117t belt

[CARB]

the set up is on the Schumacher site set ups etc, it was carrying 96 grams of extra weight under the battery and beside the motor , rear motor configuration as we'll

[dobber]

What modifications are needed to shell to the original shell are required? Im very tempted to get the kitbut there are no shells for the low grip anywhere. Is it a case of a cut a hole so the spur doesnt foul the shell, if so will it be ok to run it as it has an exposed spur? Has anyone cut their original shell, if so pics please :)

[wrighty]

I warmed mine up and pushed my thumb into it to create a buldge where the spur is

[shaungooner]

Im running the low grip layout with shorty and ball diff. I tried it at RHR last night and prefer it there too so pretty sure it will become my main car now. The shorty in the standard layout is poor in my opinion, but with the new layout I think its excellent in high and low :)

Are you adding any weight anywhere with this configuration James?

[dobber]

I warmed mine up and pushed my thumb into it to create a buldge where the spur is

How does it look? Did it ruin the paintwork and any chance you could post a pic?

Cheers

[ryan]

I just used a heat gun and pushed the area out very slightly, im also running a 76t spur so requires less modification to the shell.

[wrighty]

Looks fine my shell is black so didnt make much diffrence i will post a pick when im home from work i also run a 76t spur so theres a little more clerance

[madmulc]

Hi have purchased the conversion kit to give it a go!

[jonathan may]

I have found the complete opposite you what you are saying makes the car much easier to drive a more stable and lack of power im using ip 4800mah 90c shortys no shortage of power there

[Kelk]

Ran the low grip conversion at the Herts Mid South regional - this proved to be a useful back to back comparison as we visited there a few weeks back and the conditions were nearly identical, maybe a few degrees hotter today but track, astro, sand etc all nearly identical.

How did it compare? A lot better to be honest. There are a few inclined hairpins in a very sandy area and in the standard KF I found I lost the rear quite a few times compared to today where the low grip felt more planted. I am running with 70g brass under the shorty.

I didn't have the best of days but that was due to my ability to cope with very large and compound jumps as I don't get much practice on these obstacles. However through the twistier technical sections I could keep lines much easier than those running standard KFs.

I have to say I'm a big fan - in the right conditions.

As for power, didn't find it lacking at all on shortys.

[madmulc]

I have to say not everything will be to everybodys liking,

I personally struggled with the conversion, but i was not running extra weight under my lipos as I did not have any.

Im sure to 99% of people the coversion will be great but there is always that 1% that just dont like it. I know somebody that bought the KF when it came out and raced it for one meeting and sold it because they could not get on with it.

I might give it one last try but if it fails I'm just going to hope and pray schumacher bring out an SV3 :thumbsup:

[AmiSMB]

I had a KF with low grip conversion this weekend for the ware regional but found my TM2 v2 much better. I am not going to give up as I think I just had not got enough experience with the car and need to spend some more time on it.

[dobber]

I have the low grip conversion and it was great, no change in power from standard by using the shortys either.

One weak spot on the car for me is the steering knuckles, ive now broken 3 in 1 week. Worst of it being was once in the final in last weeks regional, and again in this weeks regional final. Wish Schumacher would make an alloy knuckle for a hex wheel!!