Why all the 1/10 NAT tracks suited to the KF ?

[DAVO]

Hi just thinking and what's peoples thoughts on the BRCA 1/10th nationals this year.
I don't personally race in them (I'm crap lol) but I do follow all the nationals 1/10th and 1/8th results as much as possible so this only my spectators opinion,

I personally think the series would have been better if there was a variety of tracks instead of all the tracks in the series been super high grip astro turf. It's like your at a disadvantage in 2wd this year if you don't run a Schumacher KF. This is because there is only one type of track at this years nationals which the KF is suited for.
I have nothing against the Schumacher KF i think it's a brilliant buggy,also I like astro turf tracks.
I just think it would be more open if there was a variety of astro,grass and clay tracks where other manufactures cars may get a chance. Obviously astro has advantages of being consistent and good in wet weather etc, but the euros and worlds etc are prob not gonna be on astro turf so we (the UK) need to get practice on other types of track.
I think 5 out of 10 cars in the A final last Saturday 2wd where Schumacher which is a great result it's clear they are the best car on this style track in the right hands.
Cragg only just made the main in 2wd but in 4wd he won the day could be a coincidence but it could be because the AE is not suited to the high crip astro as good as the KF. I think it was similar in round 2 as we'll

I think the BRCA do a great job but think this has just been over looked or mabe there is some other reason that I don't know why they choose all astro tracks.
They can obviously only choose from the tracks that apply to hold a meeting but in another post in the forum RHR choose to apply with there astro track instead of there dirt track this year as last time they applied with the dirt track they never got a round. At least that's how I read it.
Once again nothing against the Schumacher KF in fact I'm saying it's the faster car on high grip so basically your playing catch up if ye running other buggies at the BRCA this year.
Oops also forgot to mention the Xray forward motor car but same goes for that ado if any other forward motor cars but not a fan of running 4wd with drive shafts out.
This all just my opinion but just thought I share it.

[Danny]

I think it suits the BRCA because astro surfaces hold together well whatever the weather and also they manage to endure the thousands of laps that get put on them during a national weekend. Personally id also rather see a variety of surfaces getting used. Interested to know the views of the drivers who do them

[racingdwarf]

astro is a safe bet, it can drain well,meaning less chance of having to cancel a meeting with uk weather, it's clean,it's easy to choose control tyres, and the big one that top boys love is it's consistent all day long unless it rains halfway through the day! back in the old days the amount of bitching about inconsistent tracks :(.

and from a club point of view once you have spent mega bucks you have quite an easy track to maintain

This said I hate the bloody stuff, love grass or dirt :thumbsup:

[danDanEFC]

Isn't it the other way round?

Schumacher made a car specifically for high grip astro, rather than the BRCA only picking tracks that suit the KF.

Ps I am also rubbish and I don't drive a KF

[Big G]

Didn't a B5M TQ and win round 1 at Kiddy and a B-max2MR TQ and win 1 leg of round 3 at TORCH?

You can hardly say it's KF or go home when a KF has only TQ'd 1 round out of the 3 so far.

Before round 3 at TORCH the top 3 cars in the National Championship were 2x B5M's and a B-Max2MR too.

[AfroP]

the DB2 and the Team C TM2 and Xray XB4 2wd are also well suited to stupidly high grip as they are all forward motor or what ever it is.

as others have said the tracks chosen for the nats stand up well in our great british weather, they are also the tracks that offer the best tunning ability for the driver in terms of tire choices
RHR dirt must run on holeshots which over here are expensive. so it seems a bit silly to make everybody buy a set of tires for one race.
Astro is also the standard in the UK due to the weather so i'd imagine many drivers would complain that they didnt have enough track time to practice on dirt.

but with many of the americans now sugaring the dirt tracks it gives similar grip levels to our astro

[Gavin Collingwood]

I think you're missing a obvious point here,
There are three manufacturers that run a forward motor car
Schumacher,
Xray,
And Team C.
Of these manufacturers Schumacher have the highest number of top class drivers with the five in that A final being Bloomfield, mossy, McKee, cockrell and Nathan waters (all drivers are regular national A finalist anyway)
Xray only have stu wood (who's not doing nationals this year) and Ian mellish whereas Team C only really have Kev Lee as their "top class" driver
So when you look at it like that when the track and weather suits these forward motor cars, it's not that the KF is the difference, it's the fact Schumacher have a good forward motor car (along with team C and xray) and a big team full of top drivers.
You could say the weather at the nationals has been freakishly dry and warm so far and if they would've been wet/low grip you may have seen these forward motor cars suffer but that's the luck of the draw and they have benefitted.

[lochness42]

Well wasn't it similar story when mid motor cars came out - they were simply faster on high grip tracks than rear motor and many companies didn't have one for long time, now it's rather standard. I see more companies coming with fwd motor cars with the popularity of events such as EOS or PetitRC race which is often ran on high grip carpet.

[DAVO]

Well wasn't it similar story when mid motor cars came out - they were simply faster on high grip tracks than rear motor and many companies didn't have one for long time, now it's rather standard. I see more companies coming with fwd motor cars with the popularity of events such as EOS or PetitRC race which is often ran on high grip carpet.

I agree with you comment. It's the fact the all the National tracks are so similar I just think if it was possible they should have mixed up the track syles and surfaces. To give a fairer National series overall for drivers and manufactures. That's the point in having the series instead of a one off event (race) so that if one driver style or buggy style suits that track then there will still be other different style tracks. I think they should of had at least 1 dirt and one grass style track in the series

[mark christopher]

Just to point out the last worlds on dirt, the Schumacher team used the kf in pre production form, it went so well on the dirt it was released.

[mpg200]

Isn't it the other way round?

Schumacher made a car specifically for high grip astro, rather than the BRCA only picking tracks that suit the KF.

Ps I am also rubbish and I don't drive a KF

:thumbsup: spot on

and yes I am also rubbish and I don't drive a KF

[DCM]

I agree with you comment. It's the fact the all the National tracks are so similar I just think if it was possible they should have mixed up the track syles and surfaces. To give a fairer National series overall for drivers and manufactures. That's the point in having the series instead of a one off event (race) so that if one driver style or buggy style suits that track then there will still be other different style tracks. I think they should of had at least 1 dirt and one grass style track in the series

DIRT.... unless it is indoors, then you got no chance with the UK weather..... as much as I think there should be a lot more grass tracks on the UK calender, the BRCA have gone down the route of all weather tracks. If that happens to suit one car more than another, that is just a coincidence....

[Richard Lowe]

RHR dirt must run on holeshots which over here are expensive. so it seems a bit silly to make everybody buy a set of tires for one race.

A national at RHR-D would be waaaaay cheaper on tyres than most dry astroturf nationals as you can do a couple of meetings on a set of M4's no problem, you'd end up buying 4 pairs of tyres for the whole weekend. Vs for example this weekend at the national, most people in the higher heats of 4wd were using a set of tyres a run so that's at least £70's worth of rubber depending on what you get your tyres for and if you made the A. That's not including the cost of the extra wheels and inserts (you get inserts with the dirt tyres) which would make the cost gap even wider.

[Pacman]

Surely the BRCA's priority is to ensure these events take place. Until clubs come up with another consistent surface with good drainage suitable for off road vehicles, then it will continue to be Astro. Maybe adding some smooth concrete sections would help to rebalance the advantage the KF has found.

[MattW]

I think what's happened here is something like this. There is an obvious trend for track surfaces / layouts in this country (it's been heading that way for years), and so a UK based manufacture has looked at that and decided that it would be a pretty good idea to make a car that's most suited to it. Can't blame them really.

I think grass is sadly more or less dead as a surface now isn't it?? At least at national level. I think the cars probably just have too much power for the track to be able to hold up to.

[mark christopher]

Surely the BRCA's priority is to ensure these events take place. Until clubs come up with another consistent surface with good drainage suitable for off road vehicles, then it will continue to be Astro. Maybe adding some smooth concrete sections would help to rebalance the advantage the KF has found.

:wtf: why would you change the tracks because you think a manufacture has the upper hand?
:confused:

[DCM]

Surely the BRCA's priority is to ensure these events take place. Until clubs come up with another consistent surface with good drainage suitable for off road vehicles, then it will continue to be Astro. Maybe adding some smooth concrete sections would help to rebalance the advantage the KF has found.

Consistent surface, drainage, suitable for off-road, what a load of poppy cock.... let's just asnwer these...

Consistent surface - That is why we have Round By Round qualifying, so if a grass track wears, each round is different....

Drainage - Most Astro is laid on soil, funnily, so is grass....

Off-Road - Define....

[mark christopher]

I like astro, I know what tyres, my car is cleaner after a run....,

[Joe_K]

Asking why the 1:10 Nat tracks are suited to the KF is like asking why all the F1 tracks suited the Red Bull last year. It's like saying Adrian Newey (and Schumacher Racing cars) are just lucky or that they've schemed to get the tracks to suit them.

The tracks don't suit the car - the car suits the tracks, and that's not by accident - it's because they want to win races, and if they win races, they sell kits.

[Gavin Collingwood]

Just to point out the last worlds on dirt, the Schumacher team used the kf in pre production form, it went so well on the dirt it was released.

You say dirt.... It was anything but.
It was clay and sugared to hell!

[mark christopher]

You say dirt.... It was anything but.
It was clay and sugared to hell!

And is still........dirt, Defo not high grip astro as the post which claims our drivers go to the worlds and race on dirt.

[Andywoods]

Asking why the 1:10 Nat tracks are suited to the KF is like asking why all the F1 tracks suited the Red Bull last year. It's like saying Adrian Newey (and Schumacher Racing cars) are just lucky or that they've schemed to get the tracks to suit them.

The tracks don't suit the car - the car suits the tracks, and that's not by accident - it's because they want to win races, and if they win races, they sell kits.

Well said :) kf is best car out there at the moment schumacher have looked at the uk market and designed a car for it .

[Gavin Collingwood]

And is still........dirt, Defo not high grip astro as the post which claims our drivers go to the worlds and race on dirt.

Some of the top drivers came back and said it was as grippy as high grip astro is my point. The cars were grip rolling.... On clay!

[Gavin Collingwood]

Well said :) kf is best car out there at the moment schumacher have looked at the uk market and designed a car for it .

Don't think it nessesarily is the best car just from national results.... As I've said they have the biggest team so inevitably will have the most in the A

[SlowOne]

Well wasn't it similar story when mid motor cars came out - they were simply faster on high grip tracks than rear motor and many companies didn't have one for long time, now it's rather standard. I see more companies coming with fwd motor cars with the popularity of events such as EOS or PetitRC race which is often ran on high grip carpet.Agreed, and it was a similar story back in the day when you didn't win without and RC10 on the low grip surfaces we raced on then. Horses for courses - well done Schumacher for seeing the trend and getting a car out that works on these tracks. It won't always be that way....

[DAVO]

I don't think the problem is the K1 it's great that SCHUMACKER have made such a good buggy for high grip. I think the problem is the fact that all the national tracks are practically the same, they are so consistent with each other the drivers prob don't even need to change there buggy set up from track to track let a lone tires they may as well race at the same track every meeting just with a different layout. It's like a touring car series

[Mowen208fly]

Having done all 3 rounds so far I really disagree with the above comment !!!! All 3 tracks have been very different and unless you have raced them all you wouldn't really know! Yes they are all green and have some astroturf on them but you still have to set the car up to suit them :thumbsup:

[DAVO]

Having done all 3 rounds so far I really disagree with the above comment !!!! All 3 tracks have been very different and unless you have raced them all you wouldn't really know! Yes they are all green and have some astroturf on them but you still have to set the car up to suit them :thumbsup:

Your probably right but please don't think I'm slagging of the K1 or the tracks thAt have held the first 3 rounds. I just think Martin and Cragg etc have got it harder in 2wd as the buggys don't suit the tracks as much in the full series unless wet which is why I think more variation in tracks would be better series.i suppose you could say that's the other manufactures fault for not making a F motor car yet.

[hotrodchris]

Having raced the first two Nationals and been involved with the third i can state catigorically that all 3 tracks where totally different including the level of grip on the astro turf.
As said previosly Schumacher have more top drivers in the UK than other manufacturers, you could give the likes of Lee Martin a shoe box to race and due to his tallent he would beat most other drivers.
The finals both days at Torch were all very closely run races and Tom only own the 2wd by a second on countback.
There were also a lot of K1's in the lower finals so shows ability is more important than the car?

[fidspeed]

Your probably right but please don't think I'm slagging of the K1 or the tracks thAt have held the first 3 rounds. I just think Martin and Cragg etc have got it harder in 2wd as the buggys don't suit the tracks as much in the full series unless wet which is why I think more variation in tracks would be better series.i suppose you could say that's the other manufactures fault for not making a F motor car yet.

I think you have answered your own original post Davo

bit like in F1 this year where Mercedes have got the drop on everyone else so far this year they have the package the works the best on all tracks
its upto the others to catch, up not switch the tracks to handicap them

regards Dave fid

[PaulRotheram]

All i have to say to the original question... The KF simply rocks. Schumacher have delivered an amazing platform for the team to compete at the sharp end. Also the team is the strongest I have seen it in years - Tom, Simon, Bloomers, McGee, Nathan, and the rest are some very talented drivers!

[Danny Harrison]

I do wish id bought a motor foreward car too. I put another racers tm2 round rhr quicker than my own yokomo immediately.

The annoying part was how easy it felt, could beat my hot lap with it and could do it nearly every lap, with his radio......

Anyone wanna trade?:cry:

[cutting42]

I switched from a mid motor (X6 cubed) to an X6-S recently and have got a lot faster and more consistent. That is on an indoor carpet with only medium grip so there is more to the front/forward motor layout than ultra high grip.

I have had a couple of spins around Stotfold with it as well and you can really throw them around. Luv em!

[Dave Dodd]

imho astro is the way to go, as a club its easier to maintain and more like to still be one piece for many years, whereas grass would simply be worn out halfway through the day which then makes it a dirt track, providing its sunny ;) otherwise its a mud bath as seen at our last regional :cry:

to run a national weekend i would need 2 totally separate tracks on different parts of our field, just to give drivers something to race on..

as said before with the amount of schuey drivers, even if they were to race on different surfaces suited to different chassis layouts, they simply use a different car as most of them will have a few, so will still end up in the top 10 or so.. :)
drivers will always go for the fastest option, even if its a 4wd nat but 2wd is faster, they'll use 2wd..