poor show

[Duncan]

So it is a very nice sunday and my son who is nearly five as he like to tell me wants to go racing with me. As he has never raced before i chose a track that was in a field and would not be very busy so there was plenty of room for him to ride his bike if he got board . this track has a gap of 1/2 hour between rounds so i thought this would be a good opportunity to let him have a go when i can help him and not feel rushed. he had a go for ten minuets and had a wail of a time , i then went to book in for my race and i asked if it was ok between rounds that he could do some practice laps. The response was as he does not have a BRCA card NO he can't do any practice laps. This took my head off and i took back my money and left with my son in tears. now i understand this person was probably right but at least i could of been told as you have come all this way have a go but next time please get his membership sorted.
How is the sport going to attract new kids with this attitude.:thumbdown:

[fletcher]

I understand your point totally. But what if your son hit someone trackside? There's no cover and its the club that is going to get a huge fine. I work in a model shop and if I recommend a customer to start racing I tell them to get a brcs licence before they go as they may not be able to race. Ita not fair to blame these sort of people for making it difficult for new comers. When they are looking out for there club.

[Dazzler]

As I understand it, non BRCA members who have not raced before are allowed to race at an event without joining the BRCA for a maximum of 3 club meetings. So your son should have been fine.. It's a shame both you as a BRCA member having received a BRCA handbook and race control were not up on the BRCA rules.

See page 20 of the handbook.

http://www.brca.org/sites/www.brca.org/files/library_files/BRCAchairman/Handbook_2014%20(1).pdf

[Ritchie T]

Aren't you covered for 3 races before you have to join? Or did they do away with that?

[mattr]

Driving around between heats = Not racing = Not covered = World of pain for the club if there is an incident involving the nearly 5 year old.

[mattr]

TBH I'm not even sure if he'd be allowed to just drive around as a brca member unless he was entered in the event

[tdach]

I think I would have done the same. Every club I've been to let's you race for 3 meetings without a license. And encouraging new kids/people into the hobby seems to be a big priority. I assume you weren't planning on leaving him unsupervised, and most transmitters/ esc's can have the throttle settings turned down if the club was concerned about him driving a fast car around.
I understand insurance issue in this time of over-hyped health and safety but surely there's a point of common sense and a safe way for your son to play with what is basically a toy car in between rounds could have been found.
I agree, poor show.

[racingdwarf]

Thats daft ,Just use some common sense! I have had this at the club I run.1st off we promote the hobby, if we don't the hobby dies, what the club should have done is ask if you can stay on the rostrum with your son and a friendly club member would have been on hand to put the car back on track…probably many times:lol:. this way the club gets new members, and so does the BRCA. As has been said a new racer can make a start before they get there licence.

[beale]

Exactly 3 events before you must become a member, no one at my club would dream of putting off any potential new drivers, my son has just turned 4 and doesn't listen to a word I say so I sit him on my lap and am ready to divert any wrong turns plus the end points Are turned down to minimum to move.
He knows he is not allowed to race till he can get around the track without my help (that doesn't mean no crashing)

[SlowOne]

As said in an earlier post, it's a shame that officials who as so certain about things didn't know the rules - three events for new members is clearly stated in General Rule 2.

What's wrong here is people hiding behind H&S and rules in order to avoid assessing risks. It has become easier for people not to do things than to assess the risk, make a reasonable decision and then act accordingly. A bit of snow outside a stadium - let's cancel the event and so on.

Safety is the concern. If the throttle is turned down and Dad is supervising, then risks have been assessed and mitigated. What reason could one have to prevent the lad having a drive? Apparently it was easier to ignore the hard bits and simply tell the guy to bugger off.

The sport survives because of the volunteers who give up their time and money to organise events so we can all race. Nonetheless, club committee members should also know the rules and promote the sport.

After all, knowing the rules is what makes sure they know which risks to assess and what liability they have. Imagine not knowing the rules, making a decision the other way and then finding themselves on the end of a law suit?!! And, promoting the sport is what keeps their clubs alive. Think on...

[rdr]

So it is a very nice sunday and my son who is nearly five as he like to tell me wants to go racing with me. As he has never raced before i chose a track that was in a field and would not be very busy so there was plenty of room for him to ride his bike if he got board . this track has a gap of 1/2 hour between rounds so i thought this would be a good opportunity to let him have a go when i can help him and not feel rushed. he had a go for ten minuets and had a wail of a time , i then went to book in for my race and i asked if it was ok between rounds that he could do some practice laps. The response was as he does not have a BRCA card NO he can't do any practice laps. This took my head off and i took back my money and left with my son in tears. now i understand this person was probably right but at least i could of been told as you have come all this way have a go but next time please get his membership sorted.
How is the sport going to attract new kids with this attitude.:thumbdown:Name and shame Duncan, how are newcomers coming into this hobby going to see if they like it other than trying it out.

[Si Coe]

Personally I'd have to take a pretty pragmatic approach at our club. We are in a public park, and whilst I admit you should have BRCA membership to use our track (ie the bit inside the safety fencing) there is exactly nothing I can do to stop you running outside on the field - which is far more dangerous!
I've seen it happen before when we had someone who is not a club member that none of us knew careening around our pitting area with an HPI Baja.

[Jim Spencer]

Name and shame Duncan, how are newcomers coming into this hobby going to see if they like it other than trying it out.

Hi

Erm No, don't..
Educate them instead?

Point them gently in the direction of this thread to make sure it doesn't happen again?

The person at the club got it wrong - but we've all got something wrong haven't we?



Anyway
The above folk all have it right - it's '3 visits' to a club, to try the sport.
- or any other event for that matter, it also works for public "Have a Go's" too, right up to the large events (at major public Venue's) we take the demo fleets to.

Anybody has any queries you can always drop me a note

treasurer@brca.org

[rdr]

Erm YES........

If the "person at the club" didn't see the dissappointment on the boys face, maybe the crying might have given it away. Unless of course, the possible power trip of being a club official hadn't been clouding his judgment.

If this "person" can sit back and see a child so devastated and not think anything of it, then i doubt a bit of "educating" will make a slight bit of difference.

MEMBER@BRCA.cheesed off

[Peakey]

Name and shame Duncan, how are newcomers coming into this hobby going to see if they like it other than trying it out.

+1 on that name and shame :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown: so we can have a good old fashioned lynching :thumbsup:

[Jim Spencer]

And add another Club to the list of the ones closing through having nobody to run it..:cry:

Been a sad year on that score, one near me has loads of racers, plenty of money and has shut - Nobody willing to run it caused by a few very vocal people on the web giving them loads of grief.
Chatted to several others this year too..
And it's a major problem in our Association (and lots of others I talk to too)
"Why would you volunteer to do anything and then just slagged off all over the Internet?"
Was a word for word response to a question the other day..

Be carefull - or be willing to do it yourself.

[Moss Models]

To be honest there is so much wrong with this sport when it comes to attracting youngsters.

I fail to understand why we don't do more to attract young people to what is essentially toy car racing. From attitudes to entry fees more needs to be done.

[Tayter]

I agree with what moss Models says above, i have raced for nearly 4 years with my son who is now just turned 13. Only very recently at Bury Metro have we had reduced(infact free for being a member) race fees. This was discussed on the nitro forum and TBH reduced fees isnt the main put off for me or him , it is the attitude of the people he races against.

I have seen kids reduced to tears, fathers nearly fighting and all the swear words you can think of. This is much more apparent at the bigger meetings when some people seem to leave their senses at home and become idiots on the rostrum. Remember we were all pretty awful when we started and we make and still make mistakes, to be sworn at and made scared to race is disgusting and the people involved should be ashamed of themselves. Do any clubs have club equipment to loan kids wanting to try the sport out I have never seen one that does (sorry to those that do).

As for keyboard warriors it is riduculous the amount of flack some people have had to take for what? Organising a venue or race event for us all to show up and hopefully have fun at. In my opinion dont critise on an open forum take the organiser to one side and tell him to his face what is bothering you because if you dont, we may not have any venues to go to soon.

[Rick-J]

I came back to racing after a 17 year break. I planned to race at my local off road club. I had BRCA membership and went along with a friend also starting back to have a practice on a Saturday before we raced the following week to at least test the car and get up to speed a bit. When we turned up we were spoke to very rudely. They told me I could not practice as I was not a club member. I explained I was new to the club and a returning racer who would join but wanted just a quick run. I know the club have rules but they way they dealt with me and my friend and how unhelpful they were was shocking. We were turned away with no help encouragement or common sense. I never joined the club after that and only race there if it is part of a regional after the way they treated us I race at other clubs even though they a further away. Clubs need to be friendly and encourage new drivers or they will close.

[Coastal]

And add another Club to the list of the ones closing through having nobody to run it..:cry:

Been a sad year on that score, one near me has loads of racers, plenty of money and has shut - Nobody willing to run it caused by a few very vocal people on the web giving them loads of grief.
Chatted to several others this year too..
And it's a major problem in our Association (and lots of others I talk to too)
"Why would you volunteer to do anything and then just slagged off all over the Internet?"
Was a word for word response to a question the other day..

Be carefull - or be willing to do it yourself.

So true - running a club can be soul destroying, people need to think before posting/moaning - many don't realise how much time and effort club officials put in to keep clubs running.

[markwilliamson2001]

I have a strange opinion on this... from having been involved in a number of clubs over the years...

Yes the club could have let the lad have a few laps with dad driving/helping.
They are also allowed as others have mentioned 3 goes before BRCA membership.

However, I have seen many newcomers to the sport who were totally disinterested in the running of the club, and that existing members were there to serve them up a track and put it all away again at the end of the night...

Literally just sitting and watching myself and a few other dedicated members unroll carpet, tape it down, come up with a track design and setup jumps and the temp rostrum.

P***ed off was not the word, and scarpering off early before everything was being put away just was the cherry on top!

I have been to a few clubs like this, and often the driving standards of said people was also rediculous and daft!

I hope that the thread starter is not of this mentality and that he understands my post with a view from both sides of the fence. I also like to think that many hands make light work, and that if we all did a little the kit gets setup out away easily and quickly, and we all have some respect for the other club members...

[fletcher]

I have a strange opinion on this... from having been involved in a number of clubs over the years...

Yes the club could have let the lad have a few laps with dad driving/helping.
They are also allowed as others have mentioned 3 goes before BRCA membership.

However, I have seen many newcomers to the sport who were totally disinterested in the running of the club, and that existing members were there to serve them up a track and put it all away again at the end of the night...

Literally just sitting and watching myself and a few other dedicated members unroll carpet, tape it down, come up with a track design and setup jumps and the temp rostrum.

P***ed off was not the word, and scarpering off early before everything was being put away just was the cherry on top!

I have been to a few clubs like this, and often the driving standards of said people was also rediculous and daft!

I hope that the thread starter is not of this mentality and that he understands my post with a view from both sides of the fence. I also like to think that many hands make light work, and that if we all did a little the kit gets setup out away easily and quickly, and we all have some respect for the other club members...

+1! Well said, I was also allowed onto the commitee of a club at the age of 15 as I was so eager to help out etc, after 2 years I got massivly fed up with new comers having no interest in helping set up or put away. (one or the other is all we used to ask) so stopped going full stop as the club was becoming more and more argumentative.

[Si Coe]

Obviously a club that doesn't get new members soon dies out. The problem is some people genuinely believe that 'new' means already experienced but just moving to your club.

I really hope people find that at Bury Metro we have tried to create a family friendly club - but it certainly hasn't been easy at times. Nobody wanted to marshal the kids racing, nobody wanted to be in the heat the kids marshal. There was a point that on the one hand I was busy encouraging new drivers, and on the other hand trying to calm existing members who were furious that the 8 year old was too slow putting their car back on its wheels.

Whilst having new blood is essential to the hobbies survival I can kind of see where some club officials might come down on the side of 'kids are more hassle than its worth'. Its wrong, but I can see why they think like that.

Incidentally as for the people not helping part: My experience suggests kids aren't the problem here. They normally want to help, they are just a bit useless at it! The worst culprits tend to be moderately experienced adults - the same people who moan about the kids marshaling them come to think of it!

[Duncan]

Mmmm yes yes there were some very good comments to start with then as usual things on oople get twisted and blown out of all proportion :thumbsup:

[Peakey]

Ok so back to the original point. The club in question could/should of done something to help and encourage new young members to have a go, it's better on a track and under dad's and some experienced people's guidance than battering up and down a field and getting board after a while and not bothering at all with the hobby.

I've only come back to it after 20 or so years and went to BMCC for the short course nationals as they were having a buggy heat and it's only up the road. So me and my 7 year old daughter went and she had a great time watching, running around and did a bit of moaning mainly about wanting to help marshall! My point is like Si Coe said kids want to help and learn and be enthusiastic god knows my 2 daughters do, so why not let them have a go they could be the next Jamie Booth or Masami.

[shaun m]

Mmmm yes yes there were some very good comments to start with then as usual things on oople get twisted and blown out of all proportion :thumbsup:


Exactly thats what i was thinking ! I thought it was the club not letting the ( under ) 5 year old practice ( not race ) inbetween heats even with the supervision of his dad , was the whole point of the thread ??!!

Are we going to find out which club it was !?!

[Dudders]

Bring him to a club who cares about it's racers and encorouges the kids. You know where we are mate!.

[TARTMAN]

happens at a few clubs. new racers, returners, kids, newbies, etc....

3 race rule, often is forgotten, and other related issues.

Very sad that many clubs do not encourage new people, old or young, to join in and see if they like the hobby. Without them it will die and there club with it.

There are in contrast many clubs that actively encourage newbies both old and young, if only ALL clubs worked like this.

oh well............

[racingdwarf]

one thing you do see is how many club meets tend to be run more for the A final not the C or D, if you run a club its a hard balancing act on one hand you have the top boys fast cars fast drivers, tend to be only interested in their day and want the meeting to be more like a BRCA meeting than an easy going club day, on the other hand you have your beginners maybe one or two sets of batteries,cheep charger,reliability issues and a very tight budget and their mind has just been blown by the amount of money the top guys spend and just how fast they get the car to go around a track.

The most important thing when running a club meeting is trying to make sure both groups have a good FUN day. I think this is harder now than it was 15 years ago, modern fast astro tracks, combined with AMB lap timing make a beginners climb from bottom to top look close to impossible.

Im not interested in what club it was, but I would guess they fall into the only interested in the A category, shame

[Sam Mughal]

I have known Duncan for quite a while and can say that he definately doesn't fall in the category of people who disappear at the end of a meeting before clearing up, he's probably one of the last to leave.

The 'poor show' situation, I think that the race director may have been uncomfortable to have the young lad driving around between heats as he wouldn't be covered by BRCA( he needs to be 'entered in the event' to be allowed on track even with the 3 race rule). Had the race director explained this to Duncan in a better way I'm sure Duncan would have been more than happy to pay the nominal fee so his son could run his car round and everybody would have had a better day.

I have ran a club in the past and the only EXTRA attention that the better drivers got from me was to ensure that their timings were accurate, other than that I put a very heavy onus on encouraging the lesser and younger drivers and ensuring that the better drivers marshalled them to a high standard as they are the sports future and need every encouragment.

I am impressed to see that this now is happening at SHRCCC where I may add that the youngsters who have only been racing a year or less are now competing for the A/B finals and nudging the better drivers along. :thumbsup:

Silverstone is another club who promote youngsters and are now producing some very competitive youngsters, they often have a full heat of juniors :thumbsup:


Keep up the good work guys and I'm sure ALL clubs will follow or fold.

[Essex2Visuvesi]

My local club (Colchester model car club) actively encourages juniors, we often have a full heat of juniors and the speed at which some of them improve is astounding.
To our credit we have one young lad (under 10) who raced in the Euros this year

Our club mentality is that we are all big kids with more money than sense playing with toy cars :) and it works!

[Mark S]

So sad when clubs won't go the extra mile for kids and newbies.

At Chippenham model car we race indoors (Touring, Mini, GT12 etc) in the autumn & winter, and buggies on grass in the spring and summer.

We have 3 club cars, a buggy, mini and a tc.

We will allow a newbie to run their own car, regardless what it is so long as it's the right scale and won't damage the carpet.

As for championships both club and our winter championships (CWIC) all the kids get a pot for their overall position in their class but they also get an extra pot for their position in their sub class (U13 & U16)

Club membership for kids is just £2 and race fee's £2:50.

Other clubs in my area that also look after kids and newbies are Frome RCCC, Swindon model car club, Bristol radio control car club and West Wilts model car club :thumbsup:

[Duncan]

Bring him to a club who cares about it's racers and encorouges the kids. You know where we are mate!.

He is on his way to you soon mr dudders , I am just a bit worried that he might show you up and drive quicker than you :woot:

[MattW]

So it's clear that the person at the club got it wrong, and probably didn't approach it in the best way.

However, let's considder it from his point of view. He was asked about a situation that he thought gave him a problem (potentially it didn't, but that's another issue). He saw what he thought might be a potentially dangerious situation in that someone who he didn't believe would be covered by insurance, should something go wrong. He's faced with 2 options that that point: a) stop it from happening at all, or b) allow what he believed could be that dangerious situation happen, that wouldn't be covered by insurance, that if something did go wrong, he could face personal responsibility / liability / ruin from.

Still think he did the wrong thing?? For what it's worth, I don't. It's very easy to say "well it's not a problem, there is the 3 time rule" we all know that now, but at that moment in time, he didn't realise that and has therefor gone with the cautious option. It's sad, that it's the "where there's blame, there's a claim" culture that we live in now has probably caused this decision.

He probably should have known about the 3 time rule, and he probably should have approached it in a different way. However, at least look at it from his point of view, if he was unsure he has to go with the safest option really.

Personally (as someone who is involved in running a club) I'd like to think that a) I do know the rule and hence it wouldn't have happened, but if I was unsure, I'd always go with the safe option - although hopefully explain it in a better way.

[Peakey]

Our club mentality is that we are all big kids with more money than sense playing with toy cars :) and it works!

How true this is :)

[K-Brewer]

Our club mentality is that we are all big kids with more money than sense playing with toy cars :) and it works!


Couldnt of said it better myself :thumbsup:

[fletcher]

something else to note, does this 3 time rule count for some one who is "not" booked into the race meeting? I.e someone who wants to run around between heats isn't actually booked into the meeting

[Adam F]

Quoted as "3 visits" so don't think it makes a difference if you are racing or not..

Obviously not a great start, but all this "name and shame" stuff really annoys me.

The club will be run by unpaid volunteers, who are only human and yes get stuff wrong.. I doubt anything was said or done in malice, just a simple mistake.

Go and have a word, no point in the open forum flogging... it doesn't really achieve anything..

[Zippy G]

'Our club mentality is that we are all big kids with more money than sense playing with toy cars :) and it works!' [/QUOTE]

Love this, where's the club, I'm on my way :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Just one issue the more money than sense doesn't apply to me. I have non of either! :D

[justleanitupabit]

If I recall correctly the 3 race/meetings rule actually means three in total.

In other words you cannot go to Club A 3 times, then Club B 3 times and so on......

Its 3 meetings where-ever they may be...

[Mike2222]

Another point to note about the 3 visit/race rule is it only applies to 'NEW' racers who want try the sport. It does not apply to drivers returning to the sport, having previously been a brca member. They must renew their membership before racing.

[Karting]

Seeing that your in Bourne End, assuming that's the one in Bucks, we at Wycombe Micro Buggy club (mini 8s, charisma gtbs and Schumacher embs) actively encourage every single age.

A few people from this thread know me and have been to the club I run. I doubt any of them have anything bad to say.


Our winter series is starting in October and is one Saturday morning a month. Last year we had 9 jnrs and 30 snrs. That's nearly a 1/4 of the entry being under 16.


A good thing about micros is there cheap, fast and extremely robust

[SlowOne]

... The 'poor show' situation, I think that the race director may have been uncomfortable to have the young lad driving around between heats as he wouldn't be covered by BRCA( he needs to be 'entered in the event' to be allowed on track even with the 3 race rule). Had the race director explained this to Duncan in a better way I'm sure Duncan would have been more than happy to pay the nominal fee so his son could run his car round and everybody would have had a better day.

Keep up the good work guys and I'm sure ALL clubs will follow or fold.

So it's clear that the person at the club got it wrong, and probably didn't approach it in the best way.

However, let's considder it from his point of view. He was asked about a situation that he thought gave him a problem (potentially it didn't, but that's another issue). He saw what he thought might be a potentially dangerious situation in that someone who he didn't believe would be covered by insurance, should something go wrong. He's faced with 2 options that that point: a) stop it from happening at all, or b) allow what he believed could be that dangerious situation happen, that wouldn't be covered by insurance, that if something did go wrong, he could face personal responsibility / liability / ruin from.

Still think he did the wrong thing?? For what it's worth, I don't. It's very easy to say "well it's not a problem, there is the 3 time rule" we all know that now, but at that moment in time, he didn't realise that and has therefor gone with the cautious option. It's sad, that it's the "where there's blame, there's a claim" culture that we live in now has probably caused this decision.

He probably should have known about the 3 time rule, and he probably should have approached it in a different way. However, at least look at it from his point of view, if he was unsure he has to go with the safest option really.

Personally (as someone who is involved in running a club) I'd like to think that a) I do know the rule and hence it wouldn't have happened, but if I was unsure, I'd always go with the safe option - although hopefully explain it in a better way.

something else to note, does this 3 time rule count for some one who is "not" booked into the race meeting? I.e someone who wants to run around between heats isn't actually booked into the meeting

Jim Spencer...

Anyway
The above folk all have it right - it's '3 visits' to a club, to try the sport.
- or any other event for that matter, it also works for public "Have a Go's" too, right up to the large events (at major public Venue's) we take the demo fleets to.

Anybody has any queries you can always drop me a note

treasurer@brca.org"

The concern is that someone who said authoritatively that the guy's lad couldn't race did not in fact know the BRCA rules. The poster's above cannot have it both ways - excluding the kid for perceived risk due to not having insurance because it is a BRCA rule when in fact the rule is quite clear and the question should have been to ascertain if the kid had raced before.

Then Jim comes along and says "if you have a question ask me" and still people post things that are speculation! No one can remember all the Rules to the letter. As an official in a club, BRCA Section and IFMAR Electric Section Chairman, I never could. I always carried a rule book with me and when queries arose referred to it.

Not only does that help to ensure that I got it right, but it makes explanations to questioners much easier - refer to the Rulebook and explain the situation. It worked for me every time.

We need club officials and volunteers, they are the life blood of our sport. I don't mean this to be a criticism of the guy here. It is up to the rest of us to stop posting all this speculation and shouts for naming and shaming. See the post above from the young guy who gave up helping - we are part of that.

I've got me coat, I suggest we all do that!

[Si Coe]

I should point out there is no such thing as a '3 race rule' anyway. It is a code of practice rather than a 'rule' and as such does not have to be followed. Obviously the risk of not following it is that this can invalidate insurance in the event of an accident so you are taking a big chance if you don't.
Likewise clubs can choose to apply it or not - I know some clubs (especially nitro ones) insist No BRCA no race even for new drivers.
Ultimately its down to the person in charge to decide because they are responsible if anything goes wrong. Whilst in this case the race director was being excessively cautious there are sound reasons behind the decision.
The challenge is to strike a reasonable balance between safety and accessibility.

[Essex2Visuvesi]

'Our club mentality is that we are all big kids with more money than sense playing with toy cars :) and it works!'

Love this, where's the club, I'm on my way :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Just one issue the more money than sense doesn't apply to me. I have non of either! :D[/QUOTE]

http://www.colchestermodelcarclub.com/

A very friendly welcoming atmosphere and everyone helps everyone. For example this Sunday I was suffering with servo issues due to a faulty plug. one of the other members lent me one of his spares :) very kind. Even more so when you consider I was racing against him and it was a club points race

[Swiss]

The three race rule only applies, to people who have entered the meeting...

Again, this topic is going way off thread, basically if this young lad would have had an accident then this thread would have been totally different. And the person(s) involved in all this would have been branded as not doing their job properly.
I believe safety is not something that should be compromised.
There are so many issues other than the ones, that have been mentioned on here. What if the young lad fell over on the rostrum, or even fell off the rostrum. These things aren't even worth thinking about.
You wouldn't let your child drive a real car without insurance, so why take a risk when it comes to RC Cars. OK they aren't as big, or potentially dangerous, but I have seen what they can do to an adult when hit in the ankle, let alone a five year old.
Personally I wouldn't want to go to a club that compromised the rules when it comes to safety!

Paul

[crewie]

The people entered in the meeting as i understand it arent insured anyway including the young lad. Its 3rd party bystanders the insurance covers you for. There fore the confines of a track is exactly the right place for a youngster under supervision to gain experience as its almost impossible to hit a bystander imo. There has obviously been a misunderstanding of the rules but surely getting people to have a go is paramounount to the survival of the hobby.

[leedolby77]

The three race rule only applies, to people who have entered the meeting...

Again, this topic is going way off thread, basically if this young lad would have had an accident then this thread would have been totally different. And the person(s) involved in all this would have been branded as not doing their job properly.
I believe safety is not something that should be compromised.
There are so many issues other than the ones, that have been mentioned on here. What if the young lad fell over on the rostrum, or even fell off the rostrum. These things aren't even worth thinking about.
You wouldn't let your child drive a real car without insurance, so why take a risk when it comes to RC Cars. OK they aren't as big, or potentially dangerous, but I have seen what they can do to an adult when hit in the ankle, let alone a five year old.
Personally I wouldn't want to go to a club that compromised the rules when it comes to safety!

Paul

Really?? Whilst I fully understand that safety is of upmost importance I think you need to sit back and think about that again. You were not by any chance the guy that turned the poor lad away were you?!

[Swiss]

No I wasn't.

All I am saying is safety is paramount, and should not be compromised.

[Swiss]

Sorry Crewie, it doesn't just cover the third party, (individual)it covers the club, as well. So anything happens to someone whilst racing, whether it be falling off the rostrum, or anything else, if they decide to sue...

Ta

P


The people entered in the meeting as i understand it arent insured anyway including the young lad. Its 3rd party bystanders the insurance covers you for. There fore the confines of a track is exactly the right place for a youngster under supervision to gain experience as its almost impossible to hit a bystander imo. There has obviously been a misunderstanding of the rules but surely getting people to have a go is paramounount to the survival of the hobby.

[Si Coe]

Except if you are marshaling someones car. Thats the one time it doesn't cover you.
Pity cos its the time you are most likely to get hit, but I can understand the reasons for it.

[Swiss]

Only won't cover you if you are not a member of the BRCA.

[fletcher]

Only won't cover you if you are not a member of the BRCA.

no I'm sure it states as soon as you leave your marshalling post you do so at your own risk. Your insurered all the while your at your post and that's all I'm sure

[SlowOne]

Couldn't find my coat...!

Col, please put this thread out of its misery before the people who know little and post lots confuse the hell out of everyone. Close it with Jim's post and the extract from the Handbook.

Guys - when in doubt read the Rules and stop typing wrong information and speculation. Jim made the offer together with his e-mail address for contacting him - "if you have any questions, ask me [Jim]."

For everyone else, please do just that and ignore the posts on here telling you what people think is involved with BRCA Insurance. Ask Jim to tell you what is involved... for a fact.

Rant over.

[Groomi]

Well I'm glad to say my son and I had the exact opposite experience to the OP on Sunday. I took my 5yr old with me to my local club and asked if he could drive around during practice and between races if we had a suitable gap. The race director gladly said yes and turned down my offer to pay for him.

During the day a number of members including the race director said a few words of encouragement to my son and he thoroughly enjoyed himself. I now intend to give him more practice (mostly outside club meets) and then try him racing next Summer - aged 6.

It probably helps that he isn't a full-throttle kid, but nobody knew that until they have him a go.

Longer term, not only will the club gain a new member, but they'll make it easier for me to integrate my hobby into my family life - ergo, I'll stay around too. :)

[lovechild]

just to digress....what has been the biggest payout on the BRCA insurance?...just out of interest.

[Duncan]

Well I'm glad to say my son and I had the exact opposite experience to the OP on Sunday. I took my 5yr old with me to my local club and asked if he could drive around during practice and between races if we had a suitable gap. The race director gladly said yes and turned down my offer to pay for him.

During the day a number of members including the race director said a few words of encouragement to my son and he thoroughly enjoyed himself. I now intend to give him more practice (mostly outside club meets) and then try him racing next Summer - aged 6.

It probably helps that he isn't a full-throttle kid, but nobody knew that until they have him a go.

Longer term, not only will the club gain a new member, but they'll make it easier for me to integrate my hobby into my family life - ergo, I'll stay around too. :)
As it should be :thumbsup:

[Duncan]

Seeing that your in Bourne End, assuming that's the one in Bucks, we at Wycombe Micro Buggy club (mini 8s, charisma gtbs and Schumacher embs) actively encourage every single age.

A few people from this thread know me and have been to the club I run. I doubt any of them have anything bad to say.


Our winter series is starting in October and is one Saturday morning a month. Last year we had 9 jnrs and 30 snrs. That's nearly a 1/4 of the entry being under 16.


A good thing about micros is there cheap, fast and extremely robust
He has a mini 8 and he loves it ,I will bring him along to check out the track

[Jim Spencer]

just to digress....what has been the biggest payout on the BRCA insurance?...just out of interest.

£32k - several people all injured in one accident, fortunatly all relativley lightly.


To Elaborate - As it's obvious that people still haven't read the rule book judging by a few posts above...


On average it's 2 or 3 'incidents' a year that result in heaps of paperwork for all involved, some of these will result in a payment from our insurers, some not.
Generally where a claim has proper substance to it, the insurers pay, however we do get as many "try it on's" as pukka 'real' cases - unfortunatly the former have to be gone through, at length, too.

There have been a couple of claims over the decades that would have made the above look like small change - and would have drastically changed the sport too - had they been succesful / reasonable.

This last bit is where the Insurance Co really earns their keep, the claims made all make 'allegations of negligence' (That's how P.L. cover works) IF some of these allegations were found to have substance it could force changes to how the sport operates.
On one or two occasions there have been claims made that, had they been succesfull, could have seen the sport - as we know it - cease to exist or be so radically altered that you wouldn't want to do it.


As an example - a simple one:-
The last claim from a 'No Win No Fee' company involved a member of the public having a fall from a clubs rostrum (not on a race day - they we're closed at the time - nobody from the club present and the claimant was both larking about and had to break a local bylaw to be on it)
The last four bits are nowadays basically irrelevant - still the clubs problem.
So
There were numerous allegations of negligence, and each one was succesfully defended - but it takes time, resources and money to do this.
Had this claim been succesfull it probably would have had instant implications for any club in the country with a permanent rostrum - i.e. most of them wouldn't have been able to exist..


Public Liability cover is not simply 'Make a claim and somebody pays'


It is possibly easiest to explain it as:-
An 'Allegation of Neglignce' that, if proved, you are insured against.

This is why it's hard to give catagoric 'what if' answers to scenarios, as you are then trying to predict what Allegations are going to come in - and you honestly wouldn't believe what I've seen over the years..

However what our policy does do is:-
Work.
It's kept us all racing for the last 30odd years, there have been some changes to the General Rules to reflect some of the succesful Allegations, and the procedures at events have been tweked to to ensure we don't drop the ball too.
It's defended hundreds of members in that time and kept the sport viable to officiate in at all levels (Club especially)
I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you run any event for people and the organisers / participants don't have P.L. cover in place then you must be stark staring bonkers.

Everybody reading this will know somebody who's won a tenner (£25 now?) on the lottery - we'll the odds are shorter that your club will be sorting through some Insurance Claim paperwork with me at some point in the next 12 months:cry:


So back to my earlier post..

If in doubt read the handbook and the article on insurance in it, or simply ASK - make certain you're 100% confident before posting on the web too, as it saves me typing to correct folk:D

[mark christopher]

Reading the above, makes you understand the officials answer, granted he could have explained it to the agreeved a little better

[kaylon]

Thats daft ,Just use some common sense! I have had this at the club I run.1st off we promote the hobby, if we don't the hobby dies, what the club should have done is ask if you can stay on the rostrum with your son and a friendly club member would have been on hand to put the car back on track…probably many times:lol:. this way the club gets new members, and so does the BRCA. As has been said a new racer can make a start before they get there licence.

Perfect way to do it... I was made very Welcome at NBC when I first turned up.. I miss crashing ..i mean racing there... I know the BRCA has insurance rules etc and yes a toy car traveling at 15 to 20 odd miles per hour can do some damaged.. but use some common sense.. If a kid drove into my leg even if I needed stitches I'd not blame the kid or the dad or the BRCA, I'd blame me for not getting out of the way.

I know we need rules and health and safety play a big part in everything, but it's getting a bit crazy when a dad and his kid can't drive a toy car on a track in a field without some grumpy kill joy spouting rules...

[mark christopher]

I know we need rules and health and safety play a big part in everything, but it's getting a bit crazy when a dad and his kid can't drive a toy car on a track in a field without some grumpy kill joy spouting rules...

and your comment is exactly why no one wants to run clubs!:thumbdown:

[Chris56]

A pragmatic approach was mentioned earlier. At my club we get people of all ages turn up to see what the hobby is all about and to have a practice. Yes safety is paramount but we still let them have practice between rounds by following these steps:
1) Race control announces that the track is closed so that a newcommer can have a few practive laps, if you are pitting track side take caution.
2) A volunteer committer member stands trackside to marshall
3) Another committee member stands on the rostrum with the newcommer and gives them coaching/advice as they drive around.

[leedolby77]

A pragmatic approach was mentioned earlier. At my club we get people of all ages turn up to see what the hobby is all about and to have a practice. Yes safety is paramount but we still let them have practice between rounds by following these steps:
1) Race control announces that the track is closed so that a newcommer can have a few practive laps, if you are pitting track side take caution.
2) A volunteer committer member stands trackside to marshall
3) Another committee member stands on the rostrum with the newcommer and gives them coaching/advice as they drive around.

And this is exactly how it should be! :thumbsup:

[Al3xis007]

Just get a brca licence, its like learning to drive...you get a provisional or you cant drive

[fencer39]

Just get a brca licence, its like learning to drive...you get a provisional or you cant drive

Did you actually take the time to read the thread?

Btw a driving licence does'nt cover insurance which, if you bothered to read you will have seen that, that is the reason the club official turned the young lad away.