Vintage CAT overview? Rebuilding advice needed.

[OptimaFan]

Hi

Recently having acquired 2 Cat XLS, I got more interested in reading up about this car, and what the differences are between this version, and later ones. Is there a page that lists the differences, history, etc? Google gave me little luck finding something, but maybe I didn't look in the right place

[Yachty]

Wikipedia has a timeline see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumacher_Racing_Products

The a few difference but the easiest one is the lower chassis:
SWB - Stick Pack (Grey Bumper no front diff)
XL - Same shape as SWb but 20mm longer
XLS - As per the XLS with more option parts included (Silver Wheels)
XL/XLS had a saddle pack option chassis (with 6 cutouts)
Procat - 7 holes for batterys
Bosscat - Lots of options chassis here but the back of the chassis isn't at right angles when it comes in from the batteries and black weave and carbon became an options

If you want Schumacher history one of the better sources is rc10talk which is vintage focused there loads of old articles etc. In addition Daniel had set up a vintage schumacher facebook page where you can ask questions.

Keep meaning todo a post on this with more of the difference that people can help me refine. There lots of Schumacher experts on here that no more than me!

[Peakey]

Here you go Henk the rc10talk link

http://www.rc10talk.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4767

[OptimaFan]

Thanks for the pointers, but I can only see a few listings, with a few keywords added to each car listed. No summary of version differences, parts compatibility and more in-depth info.The post Yachty made comes more in the direction of what I am looking for, but I would still like to see more detail. Like there must be more difference between the ProCat and the XLS than an extra hole in the chassis, for instance? And I noticed differences between the wheel hubs on cars that are listed online as CAT XLS, so either older parts were replaced by those of next gen models, or there were more batches of the same car, with production changes being cut in during a model's availability.

With the Optima Mid I know most of the version differences after wrenching on it, and reading up around the internet, chatting with guys with more or different experience, etc. I have zero history with the CAT, so I have some catching up to do.


Btw, Peakey, did you find those darker colored front shocks yet, to match the rears on my XLS?

[terry.sc]

Differences between the original CAT, CAT XL and XLS.

Original CAT
Short wheelbase
Rear differential built into layshaft, like the RC10 6 gear gearbox
Integrator unit where the rear diff should be, to adjust drive to front
Solid front pulley with one ways built into driveshafts
Stick pack battery mounting
Bent grey kydex front bumper

Changes between CAT and XL
Long wheelbase
New moulded bumper

Changes between XL and XLS
Front ball diff
Wider front and rear suspension using spacers and new rear fibreglass upper brace
New front shock mounts giving greater castor angle and kick up for front suspension

Changes between XLS and Procat.
New front bumper with holes for adjusting tensioner
New front gearbox moulding with built in belt tensioner
New front diff pulley that holds 14 balls instead of 9 balls
New wider saddle pack chassis
New fixed layshaft with new spur gear held on with o-ring. XLS layshaft contained rear ball diff
New rear diff with solid pulley to replace front drive integrator
New moulded plastic rear shock tower and wing mount
New rear suspension taken from the Topcat/Cougar

All the parts were interchangeable between models, for example it was quite common to update earlier cars with the Procat rear suspension if you had already upgraded the transmission with MMS parts instead of buying a whole new kit, and Schumacher updated some parts so the mouldings in the kits changed over time while keeping the same part number.


While the Bosscat looks similar it was a complete redesign sharing very few parts with its predecessors, only small detail parts were shared with earlier cars, with new chassis and transmission moving the belt above the chassis, new front and rear suspension, shocks and bigger 2.2" wheels.
While quite different some of the parts were interchangeable with earlier models, so again you could upgrade suspension parts on earlier cars with Bosscat ones.

[Peakey]

Not yet Henk I'll look later and get back to you

[Yachty]

All the above is on RC10talk but half the joy is learning from old magazine article etc. as there so many none standard tweaks. All the manuals are readily available online. PM me if you struggle finding them, If your XLS has been used a lot at club level it will be full of upgraded bits of later cars as back then upgrading was a common thing. Almost everything from origional CAT upto the PROcat fit each other.

The chassis just the easiest part to tell and if it is a Schumacher one the least likely to have been changed as the car is upgraded.

I have a batch of stainless steel fittings coming from model fixings so my restoration begin in earness.

[OptimaFan]

I should be able to find some info in those car magazines that were up for download a while ago. It will be scattered though, even inside a magazine one story may be spread over 3 of 4 places inside the magazine.

I wonder, was it also popular to replace those flathead screws with Philips or hex? It makes wrenching a lot easier, but I would like to be sure replacement screws have the same thread, so I won't be stripping the holes.

[OptimaFan]

In addition to my question about replacing the screws, is there any benefit of having the diff in the rear pulley system, instead of having the integrator there and ball diff on the layshaft? Which setup would work best for a casual runner? Is there much difference in transmission noises between the original 32p spur and a 48dp one?

I suspect the reason for changing the rear suspension to TopCat/Cougar setup is that the original setup is more prone to slop, with those pivot balls and extra tie rod to adjust rear toe-in?

[OptimaFan]

I got a few answers already by searching, and through PM, but would still appreciate some extra info, besides answers to the several questions I posted.

[Yachty]

Personally I stick to the kit specs except move to stainless steel for everything as I like the period look on vintage. Back in the day and as can be seen on modern cars I moved over to hex heads for the reasons you said about conventional screw heads.

Here are the sheets that came with the diff if these help answer your question

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k506/yachty4000/d06c34c1-47f2-46c1-bbb9-2ddfefa2f948_zpsea1bcc33.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/yachty4000/media/d06c34c1-47f2-46c1-bbb9-2ddfefa2f948_zpsea1bcc33.jpg.html)

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k506/yachty4000/8117aff8-609b-49cd-8856-bb35dc73e2ac_zps8f6f229b.jpg (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/yachty4000/media/8117aff8-609b-49cd-8856-bb35dc73e2ac_zps8f6f229b.jpg.html)

[OptimaFan]

Thanks for the MMS manual.

As for the screws, I'll stick to stock, or maybe replace a few one, should I have some missing ones.

Another thing, the car that I want to turn into a runner, had lots of lateral play on the front diff. I took it apart, and found a different diff is used. Does someone recognize this diff and suggest what might be missing, causing the lateral play?

[MattW]

That's the standard diff with the later spec hex washer carriers isn't it??

[OptimaFan]

If I look at the manual of the XLS, the front diff uses only 8 balls, and different oudrives. When I look at the ProCat manual, a diffenent diff is used, with more balls, but with friction paper between metal drive rings, and outdrives.


Edit: and does anyone recognize this tool?

[J1mbo]

If I look at the manual of the XLS, the front diff uses only 8 balls, and different oudrives. When I look at the ProCat manual, a diffenent diff is used, with more balls, but with friction paper between metal drive rings, and outdrives.


Edit: and does anyone recognize this tool?

That's the tool to stop your hands from bleeding when you put the driveshafts together

[Peakey]

Like jimbo said they help the when putting the UJ's on the diff out puts and driveshafts

[OptimaFan]

I see. I'll keep it with the Cat spares then.

Any more insights on the diff, where it comes from, and how to solve the lateral play? I am leaning towards adding some washers between plastic disc-holder and the bearings, but maybe this diff was designed to be used in a different version front gear box?

[Peakey]

There shouldn't be any play when it's assembled with the right thrust race and disc springs. I personaly would use the hex washers as they hold the diff rings better than the friction paper.

http://www.retromodelisme.com/scan_pages/6178/pro-cat-schumacher-page-9.html

[OptimaFan]

But there is play, about 2 mm, side to side. Transmission housings fit together well. If I use the stock front diff, there is no excessive play. One thing, the transmission housings of the ProCat, as shown on that manual are different from the older Cats, to accomodate the tensioning bar, so use a different mold. My Cats have the older transmission housing, maybe that will only work with the stock diff?

[DerbyDan]

I see. I'll keep it with the Cat spares then.

Any more insights on the diff, where it comes from, and how to solve the lateral play? I am leaning towards adding some washers between plastic disc-holder and the bearings, but maybe this diff was designed to be used in a different version front gear box?

Do you mean the 'rocking' of the pulley as it moves about over the balls in the diff or a side to side play of the diff once mounting in the housing?

[OptimaFan]

Do you mean the 'rocking' of the pulley as it moves about over the balls in the diff or a side to side play of the diff once mounting in the housing?


Side to side play when mounted in the housing. the bearings can slide side to side in the transmission housing, as if the bearings are too thin, or the housing too wide internally.

[purplenut]

That's the tool to stop your hands from bleeding when you put the driveshafts together

Just love that answer...

[MattW]

The hex washer carriers were a later option I'm sure. I don't know if they ever came in kits.

As far as I know, the diffs were all inter changeable, and the housings - although different for the belt tensioner, were the same everywhere else.

[OptimaFan]

It would be interesting to see if a stock 8 ball diff will fit a ProCat transmission housing. If the ProCat housing is more narrow on the inside, the stock diff should be binding.

[DerbyDan]

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/NPocxp.jpg

The above image was recently posted up over on RC10Talk - this shows two different types of transmission halves - on the Left is a CAT housing (without the loop for the ProCat's tensioner bar) on the right is a ProCat housing with the 'loop' - as you can see different bearings are used... Ironically my ProCat uses a housing which uses the flanged bearing - but has the tension bar loop! However as far as I know, you can fit a later diff in an early housing & visa-versa.... I just wonder what bearings you are using??

I have just checked my car & there is pretty much zero 'float' for the diff between the housing halves :bored:

[OptimaFan]

I have the flanged bearings. Indeed oddly enough these are also shown on the ProCat manual, using the tension bar version transmission housing. With the current setup here there is so much float that the diff side almost touches the rectangular cutout on the top, and the sides of the diff plate holders rub against the inside of the transmission housing.

The bearings are intact, but I could check the thickness.

[Peakey]

See if it's the bearings Henk if not I'll have a look through my parts I might have a housing you can have if its that

[OptimaFan]

See if it's the bearings Henk if not I'll have a look through my parts I might have a housing you can have if its that


When back home, I'll get my caliphers ready, to check the bearings.

[OptimaFan]

Bearings are 12 x 8 x 3.5, thickness including flange. The flange is 0.8 mm and the total diameter including flange is 13.5 mm

[OptimaFan]

Any more ideas on the front diff issue?

[DerbyDan]

Have you got the two plastic washers fitted on the outside (Parts T080 on the exploded view on Peakey's link) between the diff output/driveshaft connection & the housing/bearing? - I must admit I thought the purpose for these was purely to stop dirt getting into the bearings but they might hold the diff central within the housing???:confused:

[OptimaFan]

The manual shows these washers on the outside of the bearings, as shield, which is the most logical position. Plus on the inside, the washers will rub against the side of the bearing. Wish I had a ProCat transmission housing to see if that is different. Else I may have to resort to shims, as I want to keep the stock 8 ball diff for the shelf car

[Peakey]

All I've got is the Procat housing Henk pm me your address again and I'll send it out to you :thumbsup:

[OptimaFan]

Nice, thanks! PM sent. Maybe the mystery will soon be solved.

[joolstacho]

(Oooh I don't think this one will ever be solved!)
That (above) was my pic of the 2 trans types. Not only do we have the 2 housing types and 2 different bearing types, there are also 2 different T118 washer carrier types which are different lengths, which could affect assembled end-float. They also differ in the diameter of the washer ID recess because there are 2 different central boss diameters in the T173 diff pulley that they fit over.
(Had enough yet?)

[OptimaFan]

Thanks for the input. Maybe just replacing the transmission housing with the one that Peakey promised to send me, will already be enough. Considering that the ProCat manual still lists the flanged bearings, but does have the belt tensioner plate, there is a 3rd style diff housing, being a combination of the 2 on those pics. And if all else fails, I could always try some shims between flanged bearings and diffplates, to get float to acceptable levels.

[OptimaFan]

Something different, but yet related, I found some Schumacher bits that seemed helpfull for parts. I can't find out what car it used to be. No pics at the moment but it's 2WD, and motor before the rear axle, just like the XLS, etc. Another feature is that the cover for the left layshaft bearing is not square, like the 4WD Cats have, but triangular shape.


Edit: pictures added

[OptimaFan]

Turns out I didn't get a selection of Schumacher parts with this purchase, it's car that is largely "inspired" by the Cat series, a Robbe Geronimo. Originally 4WD, but somehow the front part of a Kyosho 2WD, possibly Ultima series, got bolted on, and to make the mashup even more complete, the clamps on the rear shocks are RC10, dyed pink.

[OptimaFan]

A question for the Cat experts. I now have both the regular XLS front transmission housing, as well as the Pro Cat version (thanks, Peakey!), with the tension bar. Both use the flanged bearings, and both have the same extra play with the new style diff. So in both cases I'll have to use shims to reduce side to side play, no difference there. But does using the Pro Cat housing make adjusting the belt tension indeed easier, or not? If it does, I'll keep the stock XLS version for the shelf car, and install the Pro Cat version in the runner.

[Peakey]

The Procat box will help tension the belt a lot easier where as the xls you need to just clamp the front box.
With the Procat box you add the tension to the rear belts then tension the main belt with the tension bar then clamp the front box.

[DanB4]

Henk sorry I haven't been in touch. I fly to Bangkok in a few hours to compete in TITC but will give you a shout as soon as I'm back next week.

Thanks,

Dan

[Danf1275]

The Procat box will help tension the belt a lot easier where as the xls you need to just clamp the front box.
With the Procat box you add the tension to the rear belts then tension the main belt with the tension bar then clamp the front box.

Procat housing also stops assembly moving and losing belt tension when you hit things - I know, I've tested them :rolleyes:

[OptimaFan]

The Procat box will help tension the belt a lot easier where as the xls you need to just clamp the front box.
With the Procat box you add the tension to the rear belts then tension the main belt with the tension bar then clamp the front box.

Procat housing also stops assembly moving and losing belt tension when you hit things - I know, I've tested them :rolleyes:

So the ProCat housing does help considerably with setting the front tension, and it's not just a nice idea on paper. I'll use the ProCat housing for the runner then, and use a few shims to reduce the lateral play.

Btw, is there an alternate solution for fitting the rear wing? I bet the stock upper wing washers, that are fixed with the rubber bands, are just about as common as hen's teeth, right?


Henk sorry I haven't been in touch. I fly to Bangkok in a few hours to compete in TITC but will give you a shout as soon as I'm back next week.

Thanks,

Dan


Hi Dan, no worries. I know you are a busy man, and will get back to me as soon as you can. Have a safe flight, kick some other driver's behind when running, and get back in one piece. :D

[OptimaFan]

Can someone please have a look at this question?



Btw, is there an alternate solution for fitting the rear wing? I bet the stock upper wing washers, that are fixed with the rubber bands, are just about as common as hen's teeth, right?





And I'v got another inquiry, about the rear belt tension, with MMS layshaft and diff. I am a bit torn between 2 settings of the excentric bearing holder. It came set with a little lower tension, turning the spur or diff feels very smooth, and when I block one with my hands, there is no slipping. If I set it one notch more tight, the tension still looks not too tight, but I do feel a little extra drag when turning the spur or diff.

I want to make this car run as smoothly as can be, but don't want to risk stripping belts or damaging pulleys. Motor will be a brushed 17 double, expected to get to max speed of about 40 to 45 km/h, which is what I run most of my vintage cars at.

[Peakey]

I use the SX3 wing mounts on my Procat but you can still get the old wing rubbers. Just look for a the size on eBay they are cheep the same goes for the o rings on the front.
Here's mine

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148624&page=4

And as for the belt tension I've never had a problem with setting it to the manual setting. You'll get the hand of it eventually, and i run mine with a 6.5t brushless setup and I've had no problems yet.

http://www.retromodelisme.com/scan_pages/6180/pro-cat-schumacher-page-11.html

[OptimaFan]

You mean screw the wing on using those SX3 wing buttons? Or use the complete wing mounting setup?

"Just look for a the size on eBay" what does that mean? You mean just the rubber bands? But I also need the wing buttons that these rubber bands go through.

I got enough rubber bands for the crashback system, though I could use those black o-rings that remove the slop on the A-arm hinge pins.

[Peakey]

http://www.racing-cars.com/pp/Old_Cars_and_Parts/Bosscat/U1247.html O rings

Wing mount
http://www.racing-cars.com/search.asp

[OptimaFan]

http://www.racing-cars.com/pp/Old_Cars_and_Parts/Bosscat/U1247.html O rings

Wing mount
http://www.racing-cars.com/search.asp


The second link just refers to the search page. Was that intentionally, as hint? ;)


Btw, when you take apart the u-joints, these tend to stay a little "open" after re-assembly. Not enough to be afraid of these coming apart on their own, but with some side to side play on the metal plus-shaped connector block. Is this anything to worry about, or just how these all look after having been taken apart a few times?

Also, I found one of the thrust bearings has the plastic ring holding the small metal balls coming apart. And it's missing the 2 spring washers. I read about some modern parts replacing the thrust bearing, is that the way to go, and same applies for the spring washers?

[Peakey]

Try this link Henk
http://www.racing-cars.com/pp/Old_Cars_and_Parts/Cat_SX/U3298.html

You can get the spring washers with the new diff screw again from Schumacher. This has the diff screw for the 23mm Bosscat pro diff but has the spring washers.
http://www.racing-cars.com/search.asp

As for the thrust race the plastic cage has a tendency to disintegrate, they did eventually replace it with a metal one. I've heard people remove the cage and add an extra ball instead.
The part number for the thrust race is U1954V they do turn up on eBay and places. If you look for the part numbers you should be able to find most of it cheeper than on Schumacher's website.

[OptimaFan]

Ok, i'll probably go for the metal thrust race, and keep the plastic one for the shelf car, to keep it as original as possible.

And the plastic U-joint "forks" being a little bent outwards, will that be an issue?

[OptimaFan]

I ordered some metal thrust races, so that's settled. Just a few questions remain:


The front suspension pivots use small o-rings to take up the slop in the hinges. Are these convenient for fitting on a runner, or would it be better to use hard plastic washers, like you seen on about all modern cars?

I may not have enough spring washers, to add on the screw that holds the diffs together. Looking for a cheap replacement, that will still be reliable, and not have to worry about diffs unscrewing themselves or so. Suggestions where to look?

What repro belt cover and body shell are considered the best? I've had some different experiences with repro shells in the past. For some cars, it's spot on, yet on other cars the overall size is slightly off, so you have to be creative to mount the body, as the marked holes on the repro shell don't match up with the actual car.

I've read about different battery straps, like the original one, or the U744 QC. I can't find any pictures of the latter though. For the shelf car, I would like to see if I can get the original ones, but for the runner, a convenient one is what I am after. I don't want to end up just using velcro on the chassis, so some good options are welcome.

And I would like some input on my question about the u-shaped parts on the u-joints, which are bent a little outwards, after these have been taken apart a few times, by me, and most likely also by the previous owner. It's not that far apart that the metal plus-shaped connector block can wiggle it's way out, but there is a mm or little more of play, on the hinge sections. All my other cars use dogbones, so I have no direct experience with the bulky drive axles like used on the Cat.

[Danf1275]

I have used repro shells from Penguin and TBG. TBG seem a lillte crisper on detail, but a little small, so my preference would be Penguin.

Steve at Penguin is great to deal with.

Not tried Kamtec.

[dunc2504]

Hi.
I used a kamtec shell on my xls and it fitted nicely .
Just got a brand new xls bumper on ebay . must have been the first to see it !
Dunc2504

[Peakey]

I saw it and thought it was a bit steep as I paid less for my WASP racing alloy front box from the same guy. Well at least I know now what the new one I have is worth :thumbsup:

[dunc2504]

was that the one the guy on here was selling ?.
I offered him 50 for that one as well.
Seems to be the going rate for new ones now !
I used to have loads of them , and other spares when I raced the cats , threw it all out when I moved on to IC onroad (ARGH!).
Duncan.

[Mattias]

Hot tip about drive shafts: The Traxxas Slash shafts fit as if they were made for the Cat. Good for a runner!

[joolstacho]

That's a good tip Mattias. Hot-tip yup! Are the u/j's ('cross-balls') the same too? Shafts don't often appear for sale, and it seems to me that most that do come up are well worn, so a new substitute would be handy.
1: Spreading of the plastic U-joints should be able to be fixed by immersing the part in boiling water, then squeezing the ends parallel with pliers or clamp, then cooling off in cold water.
2: I've done a fix of excessive play in the holes by using a soldering iron to soften the plastic and 'close-up' the holes a little. Maybe not a long-term solution, but better than excessive slop.
3:l I'm not relaxed about Optimafan's sloppy diff, there must be a mismatch of components in there surely?
4: Could the Procat thrust race be adapted to fit the XLS? Probably not, but I mention it because new Procat thrust races are easy and cheap to buy 'cos it's a common helicopter part.
5: Bumpers? got to be close to being worthwhile for someone to do re-rees!!!
(But then I forgot that there'd only be about four people in the world dopey enough to be restoring these things!)

[Mattias]

The "cross-balls" do not look the same, but they fit in the Schumacher parts. I use Traxxas shafts in both my Schumacher runners.

[OptimaFan]

Hot tip about drive shafts: The Traxxas Slash shafts fit as if they were made for the Cat. Good for a runner!

Interesting. The bulky Traxxas shafts did already remind me of the XLS ones. Seems like Traxxas looked around pretty well.




1: Spreading of the plastic U-joints should be able to be fixed by immersing the part in boiling water, then squeezing the ends parallel with pliers or clamp, then cooling off in cold water.
2: I've done a fix of excessive play in the holes by using a soldering iron to soften the plastic and 'close-up' the holes a little. Maybe not a long-term solution, but better than excessive slop.
3:l I'm not relaxed about Optimafan's sloppy diff, there must be a mismatch of components in there surely?
4: Could the Procat thrust race be adapted to fit the XLS? Probably not, but I mention it because new Procat thrust races are easy and cheap to buy 'cos it's a common helicopter part.
5: Bumpers? got to be close to being worthwhile for someone to do re-rees!!!
(But then I forgot that there'd only be about four people in the world dopey enough to be restoring these things!)


5) I think their are more than 4 Cat addicts, I already know more than 4, and I've only relatively recently gotten into contact with fellow vintage addicts like here. :D

4) I got some metal case thrust races from RcBearings, should be a direct replacement. The plastic ones will go in the shelf car.

3) I think it's because I have the metal plates with hex cutout, and not the ones with the friction paper, and the latter being a little thicker or so. Anyway, I used some 8 mm shims between the flanged bearing and the Washer Carrier. With 2 0.3mm shims on each side, the diff has minimal play, and runs very freely.

2) Could work, but then I'd rather opt for applying a very thin coat of CA glue in the opening where the pivot balls go. After letting it cure long enough, it forms an extra layer, tightening up the hole. Have done this with success on worn linkages on a small helicopter. But at the moment, it's not needed, I have some parts with acceptable slop, and the rear suspension will be ProCat, so much less slop there as well Still looking for suitable replacement pivot balls though, as long term solution.

1) That crossed my mind, but the main problem was that when putting these back together, I bent these open too much again, so I was getting nowhere. But after I got a little more familiar with the tool that comes with the XLS, to aid in assembly. Now the joints look much better.

[Danf1275]

5: Bumpers? got to be close to being worthwhile for someone to do re-rees!!!
(But then I forgot that there'd only be about four people in the world dopey enough to be restoring these things!)

I'm one of those people - wahey :D

[joolstacho]

Alright... 6 then.
:-)

[OptimaFan]

What is the stock length for the front shock springs?

And once shocks are cleaned, and you work the piston manually, should you feel quite some drag from the o-rings, or barely any? I have one pair of shocks that feels very light, and the other is smooth but heavier. No binding of piston and inside of shock body, just purely the metal rod moving through the sealing rings. And or 2 hole pistons up front, rear, etc? The manual does list recommended pistons, but are these to be observed, or are other combos better?

[Peakey]

There's some screws here if you need some

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/201307568619

[OptimaFan]

I have some spare screws by now, but the spings on the car I got from you seem way too long for the front, and on the other car, the front springs are very short. Making me wonder what the correct length is.

The stiffness on the seals on one pair of shock has been solved, that was due to everything running dry. After I put a few drops of silicone oil on the piston rod, it was pretty smooth. Still looking for recommendations for what piston to use, 1 hole, or 2, and what oil weight. I mostly run my cars on paved surface, or packed dirt, maybe some short grass.

[Peakey]

I don't think ive got any kit front springs but I'll see what I can dig up. Chances are someone's put some rears on the front to raise the ride hight.

[OptimaFan]

I don't think ive got any kit front springs but I'll see what I can dig up. Chances are someone's put some rears on the front to raise the ride hight.


That would be nice. The long springs are so tight, it doesn't need a preload collar at all. In fact, the shocks are very stiff this way, with little or no bump absorbing abilities. The short springs from the other car need over 2 cm of collars to get any preload.

[OptimaFan]

Still looking for input on the length of the XLS springs, especially the front ones.

[Danf1275]

I assume my XLS is stock, although can't be 100% sure,

Front springs - 39mm
Rear springs - 75mm

Cheers,

Dan

[OptimaFan]

I assume my XLS is stock, although can't be 100% sure,

Front springs - 39mm
Rear springs - 75mm

Cheers,

Dan


Thanks, Dan. Can someone confirm this, as there is still some margin for error, so it seems?

[Peakey]

38mm and that's from some nip ones from an XLS kit

[OptimaFan]

I have a couple of 38 mm springs, so I'm covered for one car, time to hunt for a second pair. For the rear I wonder if the 75 mm is right. There is only room for 65 mm between the top of the shock, and the collar that the spring sits against on the bottom.

[OptimaFan]

Took a while off from building cars, personal reasons, and later took up rc flying again. But I am back working on the XLS, and have another few questions.

1) what "eyelets" should be on the shocks? I've seen snap-on ones, like are also used on the steering rods, white ones that look like RC10, and black ones that are very thin, but look different than the ones shown on the manual

2) what tie rods should be used to be "area correct"?

[Danf1275]

XLS shocks should be fitted with black rosejoints, same as Procat. Earlier models had simpler eyelets with no ball at all, simply running on screw shank

My XL and XLS are fitted with black passivated turnbuckles, si I assume these are period correct.

Are your rear shocks fitted with limiters? As standard, there is a lot of droop.

[OptimaFan]

Can you post a picture of those black eyelets? There are different shapes and sizes, and I get the impression that on my Cats, some parts have been swapped out over the years, before they ended up with me. A few of the shocks I have came with "snap on" connectors, just like as are used on the tie rods and stabilizer.

Same as for turnbuckles, on one car these are simply threaded ends, on the front stabilizer, steering rods, and tie rods that set rear toe in.


Limiters outside the shock, or inside? I haven't opened all yet, but some have tubing on the outside, limiting throw.

[OptimaFan]

Bump...


The XLS manual shows the following "eyelets": T091 Rod End - short

These are the ones that use no balls, just resting on the screws, right?


Rose joints I can only find in the Pro Cat manual: T238/239 rose joint

I have a few of these, but less than 4. As these aren't listed in the XLS manual, could it be these were phased into later released XLS kits?


But I also saw T100 Ball Socket being used.

As I was hoping to make the shelf car look like Masami's Cat, which of these options would be the closest match with the original?

[Peakey]

Hi henk, sorry for the delay pal but I found my pack of O rings
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/B97BDDF7-B646-4E5E-A12F-DDFCE46F7D93_zpsf9td8etm.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/B97BDDF7-B646-4E5E-A12F-DDFCE46F7D93_zpsf9td8etm.jpg.html)

and as for Masamis CAT here it is
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/XLS/D52179E0-E42B-4545-A86C-62F5BA58DAE1_zpsgvfjs34j.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/XLS/D52179E0-E42B-4545-A86C-62F5BA58DAE1_zpsgvfjs34j.jpg.html)
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/XLS/08D487A9-8B6A-4274-86AA-959450CF9280_zpss4fjegkl.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/XLS/08D487A9-8B6A-4274-86AA-959450CF9280_zpss4fjegkl.jpg.html)
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/XLS/6F40D080-FCE0-477A-A81A-9F31D661C738_zpsik2tfkfm.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/XLS/6F40D080-FCE0-477A-A81A-9F31D661C738_zpsik2tfkfm.jpg.html)

But you can't see any of the shock bottoms ��

[Retro RC]

Have a look at this Henk shows what's used on the dos and the part numbers

http://www.oople.com/rc/manuals/xls/imagepages/xls17.html

[Retro RC]

Hi henk, sorry for the delay pal but I found my pack of O rings
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/B97BDDF7-B646-4E5E-A12F-DDFCE46F7D93_zpsf9td8etm.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/B97BDDF7-B646-4E5E-A12F-DDFCE46F7D93_zpsf9td8etm.jpg.html)

and as for Masamis CAT here it is
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/XLS/D52179E0-E42B-4545-A86C-62F5BA58DAE1_zpsgvfjs34j.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/XLS/D52179E0-E42B-4545-A86C-62F5BA58DAE1_zpsgvfjs34j.jpg.html)
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/XLS/08D487A9-8B6A-4274-86AA-959450CF9280_zpss4fjegkl.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/XLS/08D487A9-8B6A-4274-86AA-959450CF9280_zpss4fjegkl.jpg.html)
http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/XLS/6F40D080-FCE0-477A-A81A-9F31D661C738_zpsik2tfkfm.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/XLS/6F40D080-FCE0-477A-A81A-9F31D661C738_zpsik2tfkfm.jpg.html)

But you can't see any of the shock bottoms ��
Damn Peakey where did you find those pics

[Peakey]

I got them off Danb4, from when he built his replica. That is where it lives in the office of Harvey Kempton at Schumacher.

[OptimaFan]

I think Dan showed these earlier too, but not sure, so thanks. Still hard to see what "eyelets" are used, as the bumper or body is obscuring things. I can see a part of the rear shock eyelet, and it's clearly not the "snap-on" type, like is used on the stabilizer. But whether a rosejoint, or eyelet without pillow ball, I can't tell.

[Peakey]

I've been meaning to try and get some more pics but not got round to it. I might get to meet Robin Schumacher at the weekend if he's at the Revaval on Sunday and I get to speak to him I'll ask and see if he knows.

[J1mbo]

I've been meaning to try and get some more pics but not got round to it. I might get to meet Robin Schumacher at the weekend if he's at the Revaval on Sunday and I get to speak to him I'll ask and see if he knows.

Masami's Cat had eyelets. Also I get my crackbacks from polymax:21.6X2.4N70 O-ring 21.6mm ID x 2.4mm CS Nitrile (NBR) 70 ShA

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/jdsmiffy/image.jpg3_zps1irdkuwl.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/jdsmiffy/image.jpg1_zpsehs4lera.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa250/jdsmiffy/image.jpg2_zpsx85aztld.jpg.

[Danf1275]

Crashback bands must have been hard to fit/change with overhang on top deck.

[Retro RC]

Does anyone else see what I'm seeing .... Looks like he widened the front track by doubling up the shock stand offs 1 with the shock mounts cut off and 1 with the crash back mounts cut off

[fathead]

Looks like it, I'd guess the change he was after was standing up the shocks by the thickness of that piece, pretty clever.

[Npdp72]

This was a pretty common mod prior to the factory wide track solution that came on the XLS.
I did it on my XL after seeing it in one of the RC car magazines.
Still have my original modified parts waiting to go back on a vintage build.
Front shock angle is the same as standard but track is widened improving stability.

[Peakey]

You can see it better here

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p662/peakey29/XLS/08D487A9-8B6A-4274-86AA-959450CF9280_zpss4fjegkl.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/peakey29/media/XLS/08D487A9-8B6A-4274-86AA-959450CF9280_zpss4fjegkl.jpg.html)

[OptimaFan]

About these o-rings, I think there is some misunderstanding. I wasn't looking for those larger ones, that keep the front together, but the ones that are on the hinge pins for the front lower suspension arms. Each suspension arm is locked between 2 small o-rings, to reduce slop on the suspension arm. Those are the small o rings I am looking for. Most I can find are reddish brown, and very sticky rubber, adding friction so the hinge.

[Peakey]

I've only ever used the hard plastic rings not rubber, but I would use small nitrate ones if using rubber so there not as sticky just mesure that and grab some off eBay.

[OptimaFan]

I've only ever used the hard plastic rings not rubber, but I would use small nitrate ones if using rubber so there not as sticky just mesure that and grab some off eBay.


Anyone got a link to compatible hard plastic rings, or compatible "rubber" ones?

[Peakey]

Sorry buddy I thought I replied :blush:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/321779167365