For Sale Section

[h0m3sy]

Just scanning through the for sale section and I can't believe the amount of adverts asking for the money to be sent as gift. A lot of these people have no trader feedback either. It just baffles me as to why some people do this? Now I'm not saying that every person that does this is a scammer but it does happen. It only takes 2 mins to work out the PayPal fees to be added so you get the price your looking for, plus the buyer has the assurance that he/she is protected should the sale go bad.

[alex97]

I always say that fees are an option for the buyer, when ever I get anything from someone I don't know even if they have good feedback. I always pay the fees as they protect me as the buyer so I don't see why they should pay for something that will protect me?

[Rich D]

Unfortunately PayPal are always quick to side with the buyer. As a seller you leave yourself wide open for people claiming against you should they blow their speedo up for example and decide they want a refund for their own stupidity.

I only sell via PayPal gift to people I don't know. Its the same as a private cash sale. No guarantees with used items after all so nobody should expect them. Send my items via recorded post to cover myself and only sell items that I'd be happy to use myself to avoid aggro.

PayPal gift protects the seller is what I am getting at. This forum has a lot of members with more enthusiasm than experience when it comes to soldering/wiring. Lots of potential for damage to gear that was perfect when it was sent.

[K-Brewer]

Most people cant even be bothered to follow the rules and put pictures in the sale post either

[xfactor]

Agree with both Rich and Kbrewer. Also you get people who buy from you when selling rc stuff cheaper, then pay with you getting hit for fees on top of what your selling. Its up to the buyer to pay the fees if they so wish BUT !!!!! as Rich states GIFT protects the seller if the unfortunate should happen. I have refunded buyers is the past for expecting me to pay fees when I was selling stuff cheaper. I always state PAY THE FEES or Gift.:thumbsup:

[SlowOne]

I always say that fees are an option for the buyer, when ever I get anything from someone I don't know even if they have good feedback. I always pay the fees as they protect me as the buyer so I don't see why they should pay for something that will protect me?+1. If gift protects the seller, fees protect the buyer.

[CHEVY]

how many times do you see ads with the words
having problems cannot upload pictures this maybe one reason for lack of pictures in for sale ads

[Noob]

Im sure i read if it doesnt have pictures it will be removed or to do with someone with low feedback/posts, its not hard to put pictures on even for those who are not that technical search for the answer or ask, a picture is as good as the description.

[Karting]

My biggest pet peeve, is when you open a thread and then it links you to another thread. clearly you have mastered copy and paste as you copied the url, surely you can copy and paste your advert instead?!?!

[JonyNitro]

A few things anoy me, no pics! Sometimes you need to add postage and fees on top really! Just add it in, it is mad for still be asking for Gifts.
Delete them the ones that ask along with no pics.

[PaulRotheram]

Guys,

The for sale section is moderated by one guy! Have you seen the amount of traffic that goes through there? It amazes me how Col keeps the section together! He does it thanklessly, off his own back, and IMO does a cracking job of it.

[K-Brewer]

Guys,

The for sale section is moderated by one guy! Have you seen the amount of traffic that goes through there? It amazes me how Col keeps the section together! He does it thanklessly, off his own back, and IMO does a cracking job of it.

no one is saying anything about col an the way its moderated, people are talking about members who post in the for sale section

[PaulRotheram]

I'm more outlining the point of what is done so people are aware why some of the numptys slip through for a couple hours.

I agree it's not hard to see the rules of adding pictures or a link of a link in a link from the link from the linked post :)

I do personally agree with having money sent via a gift, not everyone is trusted, and i personally prefer it when selling items. However not everyone is comfortable doing that.. and paying the fees is the next best.

Just check who they are, how long they have been around, and if they have any oOple feedback - 99% of the time everything works smoothly.

[the dug]

Take great care in knocking this facility. It's almost certainly the best and safest method of buying and selling RC stuff there is out there. The moderators do a terrific job and an occasional thank you to them is very worthwhile. Don't ever get near the point where we might lose it. Because what will you do then?

[dazp83]

I don't think anyone's knocking the facility just people not using it correctly. I agree about linking to a old ad, just copy the old post.

[FrogPrince82]

+1. If gift protects the seller, fees protect the buyer.

This seems to have been confused somewhere.

Gift - No protection for buyer or seller.
With Fees - Both buyer and seller protected if following the PayPal seller protection rules.

The key seller protection rule is simple - send it tracked or signed for so proof of delivery.

Follow theze and you don't get scammed.

Unfortunately, too many people want something for nothing so try to use gift for when it isn't appropriate i.e. when selling goods to unknown people.

[Rich D]

This seems to have been confused somewhere.

Gift - No protection for buyer or seller.
With Fees - Both buyer and seller protected if following the PayPal seller protection rules.

The key seller protection rule is simple - send it tracked or signed for so proof of delivery.

Follow theze and you don't get scammed.

Unfortunately, too many people want something for nothing so try to use gift for when it isn't appropriate i.e. when selling goods to unknown people.

The keywords here are "..............Both buyer and seller protected if following the PayPal seller protection rules "

Sadly, not every buyer can be trusted to do so.

I have sold two speedos to noobies on here and had immediate emails telling me that the items dont work. Turns out they had wired the speedos incorrectly both times ( phases wrong ). I helped via email and it was all sorted thankfully without damage.

If someone connects it + to - and smokes it i dont really feel like footing the £80 plus postage to buy them another because Paypal deemed that it was my fault.

Not interested in Paypals decision as to whether they think theres a warranty when im selling my own used working items. As far as im concerned Paypal Gift is just the same as a cash sale if i had advertised in a local paper. Paypal are a law unto themselves. If people dont want to pay gift then thats fine by me, someone else will be happy to see my feedback and do as i ask.

I agree with the sending via a recorded/insured method though, that has to be guaranteed in the listing IMO.

[FrogPrince82]

The item is used and open to being damaged when installed, so as long as you have proof that it was delivered then you as a seller are protected, it has nothing to do with the buyer being honest or not.

It is simply if you sent the item and can prove they received it. Once it is fitted to the car it has been modified and open to their error, so impossible for the buyer to return to you in original condition.

Therefore the buyer would lose their case against you if they raised a dispute or claim.

This protection for the seller is what you pay the fees for. If not, and the buyer pays by gift, they can open a Charge Back case with their bank and you lose the money, PayPal protection covers this scenario so as long as you have tracking and proof of delivery, even if the buyer goes to their bank, you will still be guarenteed your money by PayPal, they take the hit financially.

This is why going with gift is actually a false sense of protection by sellers, the buyer is covered by the bank funding the gift payment and the seller has nothing!!!!

[xfactor]

Funny thing is, depends what or who your name is on here, to who gets there for sale threads deleted. There is for sales on there now without pictures yet have not been deleted. I struggled with 1 upload on 1 of my for sales and it was instantly deleted. Which in the case of the rules is fine, but rules should apply to everyone not individuals.

[Rich D]

The item is used and open to being damaged when installed, so as long as you have proof that it was delivered then you as a seller are protected, it has nothing to do with the buyer being honest or not.

It is simply if you sent the item and can prove they received it. Once it is fitted to the car it has been modified and open to their error, so impossible for the buyer to return to you in original condition.

There for the buyer would lose their case against you if they raised a dispute or claim.

This protection for the seller is what you pay the fees for. If not, and the buyer pays by gift, they can open a Charge Back case with their bank and you lose the money, PayPal protection covers this scenario so as long as you have tracking and proof of delivery, even if the buyer goes to their bank, you will still be guarenteed your money by PayPay, they take the hit financially.

This is why going with gift is actually a false sense of protection by sellers, the buyer is covered by the bank funding the gift payment and the seller has nothing!!!!


I`d agree with what youre saying if Paypal gave careful consideration to each dispute but the fact remains that certainly as far as eBay is concerned, they dont.

I had one guy who bought a 15 year old Losi XX4 shelf queen fitted with new belts ( made 10 years ago ). He decided to open a dispute against me cos when he installed his brushless system it stripped the belts. This was despite it being listed as a shelf model. Guess what ? He won.

Open an eBay dispute and tick the "arrived broken" box, you get refunded. No further questions.

Having been shafted i`ll not let it happen again. 1500 listings later ive had no further trouble and certainly none on here. Fair to say you have to be wary about who you are dealing with though.

I`ll cross you off the list of potential customers anyway :)

[D20MCK]

I've just been caught out with this, paid for a "in good working order" 1S speed control for my supastox and it's not working.

Wish I had paid the fees and I would have got my money back. I can only hope now.

:thumbdown:

[FrogPrince82]

I`d agree with what youre saying if Paypal gave careful consideration to each dispute but the fact remains that certainly as far as eBay is concerned, they dont

And here is the easy to make but large misunderstanding most people make:-

eBay and PayPal are actually different companies, run separately, with different buyer/seller protection agreements.

Your buyer raised an eBay claim, not a PayPal one. The fees paid on PayPal are for their protection policy, not ebay's.

ebay's policies only applies to what is sold through their online market place.

PayPal's policies apply to all transactions made through their systems for goods, regardless of the website used.

So in fact, like many others, you have decided to forego the protection provide by PayPal for all transactions made on any website or forum because of a decision made by ebay.

This would be the same as saying "I was done over by the market inspector in Covent Garden market when I traded there, so I am never going to use my HSBC bank account to accept payments ever again, even when I'm selling at Blackbush or Camden markets."

eBay's, the market inspector/owner of WHERE you sell, decision should not have any bearing on your choice of using PayPal as a payment transaction, HOW you accept payments off your customer.

[Peakey]

Funny thing is, depends what or who your name is on here, to who gets there for sale threads deleted. There is for sales on there now without pictures yet have not been deleted. I struggled with 1 upload on 1 of my for sales and it was instantly deleted. Which in the case of the rules is fine, but rules should apply to everyone not individuals.

I think it's a case of when col gets time to go through everything rather than who it is mark.
As with everybody else he has a day job and dosbt have the time to be constantly on here but when he spots them they get deleted.
So say if you posted an add in the morning and col didn't get chance to come on till the evening right after another one was posted with no pics they both get deleted at the same time.

[xfactor]

I thought that matey, but there are threads removed after certain pages where those arent and still for sale with no pictures just stating email me for pictures.... .........;)

[Col]

I thought that matey, but there are threads removed after certain pages where those arent and still for sale with no pictures just stating email me for pictures.... .........;)

if you spot any of these that I miss, please let me know. This was much simpler when there was a report post button, but we work with what is available to us.
FYI Tricky Dicky Taylor (RC legend) has just had all his ads deleted as they didn't even attempt to follow the rules...

[xfactor]

if you spot any of these that I miss, please let me know. This was much simpler when there was a report post button, but we work with what is available to us.
FYI Tricky Dicky Taylor (RC legend) has just had all his ads deleted as they didn't even attempt to follow the rules...

FYI its not Richards RC legends. You have posts 5 days old with no pictures still for sale not deleted, yet posts 1-2 days old deleted and strikes.

Nothing to do with Richards Col.

[Col]

Link?

[h0m3sy]

I always say that fees are an option for the buyer, when ever I get anything from someone I don't know even if they have good feedback. I always pay the fees as they protect me as the buyer so I don't see why they should pay for something that will protect me?

The seller isn't paying anything extra, if the PayPal fees are added on to their asking price then it makes for a more comfortable sale as the buyer is protected and the seller still gets their original asking price. It just bugs me when I see someone with no feedback and on their 1st or 2nd post are asking for the likes of £150 to be sent as a gift. If more people were to read ALL the rules and guidance notes Col has provided then it would make things a lot smoother.

[justleanitupabit]

And here is the easy to make but large misunderstanding most people make:-

eBay and PayPal are actually different companies, run separately, with different buyer/seller protection agreements.

Your buyer raised an eBay claim, not a PayPal one. The fees paid on PayPal are for their protection policy, not ebay's.

ebay's policies only applies to what is sold through their online market place.

PayPal's policies apply to all transactions made through their systems for goods, regardless of the website used.

So in fact, like many others, you have decided to forego the protection provide by PayPal for all transactions made on any website or forum because of a decision made by ebay.

This would be the same as saying "I was done over by the market inspector in Covent Garden market when I traded there, so I am never going to use my HSBC bank account to accept payments ever again, even when I'm selling at Blackbush or Camden markets."

eBay's, the market inspector/owner of WHERE you sell, decision should not have any bearing on your choice of using PayPal as a payment transaction, HOW you accept payments off your customer.

Same group.

Your analogy isn't valid I'm afraid.

http://www.ebayinc.com/who_we_are/one_company

[FrogPrince82]

Same group.

Your analogy isn't valid I'm afraid.

http://www.ebayinc.com/who_we_are/one_company

Same umbrella group, although this is due to change soon as widely publicised, so analogy still stands. Especially as part of the reason for the split is a business decision based from the fact that the two companies have very different requirements of their customers which they've learnt don't allign well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/digital-media/11134139/The-five-reasons-behind-PayPals-split-from-eBay.html

They are run, by law, as two completely separate entities on the ground level, the only cross over is at the board and senior, senior, management level. This is why they have different user agreements, different protection agreement terms and different fees. Try phoning up PayPal and giving them your eBay ID, see how far you get???

I am simply speaking as someone who works within PayPal and hears hundreds of claims a week going through the office, disputes raised by buyers and sellers. As well as the ones who incorrectly contact PayPal to discuss a claim raised through ebay.

All I'm trying to do is help educate people about common and widely held misconceptions along with the fact that a bad experience with eBay should not impact your decision to use PayPal. Reverse the analogy, if you were unhappy with Ford Credit (the finacial credit provider for Ford Motors) when you bought a focus would that lead you to not buy an Aston Martin (if this was your dream Car) if you won the lottery?

People believe they are "protected" if they are sellers by using PayPal gift, but this is very wrong. The buyer can claim a Charge Back, with their bank who provide their debit card funding the gift payment, and the bank will ask fewer questions of the seller and will be much more inclined to side with the buyer (as lets remember the buyer is their customer, the seller most likely isn't) and the seller will lose their money without any requirement for the buyer to return the item so you lose that too. PayPal will protect you against this as a seller if not using gift so this is why I recommend never using gift as a buyer or a seller.

I will also state, before anyone says anything, although I work within PayPal none of the fees paid to them goes towards my salary as I'm not on their direct payroll, so I don't need your use of it to keep in a job!

[justleanitupabit]

Sorry Pal but the fact that you are bound by eBay requirements to also have a PayPal account means that the two are inextricably linked - that you have to abide by both sets of standards to use eBay means for all intents and purposes you are dealing with one entity.

Don't get me wrong I have used PayPal for years and think it can be a very useful medium and has made normal banking sit up and take notice but there is no doubt that they are closely related and have influence over each other. I say this as someone with approaching 20 years experience of the Regulation of financial markets.

[FrogPrince82]

Sorry Pal but the fact that you are bound by eBay requirements to also have a PayPal account means that the two are inextricably linked - that you have to abide by both sets of standards to use eBay means for all intents and purposes you are dealing with one entity.

Don't get me wrong I have used PayPal for years and think it can be a very useful medium and has made normal banking sit up and take notice but there is no doubt that they are closely related and have influence over each other. I say this as someone with approaching 20 years experience of the Regulation of financial markets.

Right, so eBay is currently linked to PayPal as a requirement to use eBay, but that doesn't concern forums like oople.

My whole point, as the thread is about oople's for sale section, is that because you are buying and selling on oople, eBay has no influence. The buyer and seller are protected by PayPal's protection, it is in no way connected to ebay's requirements if the item was not sold on eBay.

Simply - why leave yourself with no protection for your transaction on oople because of a crap experience with eBay!

If the transaction is through PayPal on an advert in oople's for sale section then I could not call eBay to open a claim or dispute, I would have to call PayPal. This is why I pointed out that the requirements and companies are different and so this is why paying as gift on PayPal for something advertised on oople is dangerous and reckless for both the buyer and seller.