XXX KINWALD OR XXX BK2

[dave-p]

HIYA LADS, COMMENTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED ON THIS MATTER, SOME SAY THE BK2 IS BETTER BUT MOST I ASK PREFER THE XXX KINWALD THEY SAY ITS BOMBPROOF AND VERY STABLE, PLEASE LET ME KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS AND WHICH WAY TO GO.

[bert digler]

HIYA LADS, COMMENTS WOULD BE APPRECIATED ON THIS MATTER, SOME SAY THE BK2 IS BETTER BUT MOST I ASK PREFER THE XXX KINWALD THEY SAY ITS BOMBPROOF AND VERY STABLE, PLEASE LET ME KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS AND WHICH WAY TO GO.

cue ashley:lol:

[ashleyb4]

TA TAA

If you want the most up to date losi 2wd the xxx-cr is the one to have. Nice stable car to drive and very robust.

A

[Northy]

Kinwald was the better can of the two IMHO, and probably better than the CR :p

G

[migsy]

i've ran a losi XXX since the first proto-type came out and since then its only got better.
i bought a B4 and to me, it was like driving a mardave cobra with no steering. if you need advice, losi is the way to go.

[Tom3012]

IMHO... dont get either... the xxx kinwald is very old, and the bk2 was terrible in the UK (if ur based in the UK that is) . If you want a losi then get the CR, however i think youd be better with an X-6 :lol:

[bert digler]

IMHO... dont get either... the xxx kinwald is very old, and the bk2 was terrible in the UK (if ur based in the UK that is) . If you want a losi then get the CR, however i think youd be better with an X-6 :lol:

AGREE:thumbsup:

[Fiddybux]

XXX Kinwald is old, but good. XXX BK2 should be avoided, not good (they knackered handling with the low CG gearbox thing on it).

I just swapped my Kinwald for a CR and haven't looked back - belting car IMHO. XXX CR is great for me. :thumbsup:

I have encountered a lot of anti-Losi sentiment in my time and it seems unfounded to me. I have never driven more competitively than I do now with my CR and it's all about setting your car up properly and using good tyres. Do this and it will handle well, and the rest is up to your thumbs.

I'd be mindful about buying into the hype concerning the X6. Sure it is a good car (all these drivers can't be wrong can they?), but it's expensive (certainly more so than a good 2nd hand CR) and you'll just end up putting Losi shocks and other hop-ups on it anyway to make it as competitive as everyone else!

[Northy]

The best Losi I ever had was the 'hybrid', the mod'ed BK2 that people ran before the full CR. For some reason I never thought the CR was as good as the hybrid. So I built my own 2wd...... :lol:

G

[bert digler]

The best Losi I ever had was the 'hybrid', the mod'ed BK2 that people ran before the full CR. For some reason I never thought the CR was as good as the hybrid. So I built my own 2wd...... :lol:

G

i had a cr it drove really nice but it just did not put any sort of times in its a bit like a bj4 drive a 95% and its good any more and it just goes to pieces i would seriously look at a b4 or x6 mate

[Garry Driffill]

I think the X-6 has to be one of my favourite 2wd's ive ever had - The concept just seems to work really well :D

[bert digler]

I think the X-6 has to be one of my favourite 2wd's ive ever had - The concept just seems to work really well :D

so why move backwards does f1 have a motor at the back:lol:

[samd]

Whats a hybrid BK2? A BK2 with a XXX gearbox?

[Tom3012]

Whats a hybrid BK2? A BK2 with a XXX gearbox?


and some other bits and bobs... think its like this... http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losi2wdprototype/

[IceMike]

i had a kinwald thought it was the worse car i have ever owned an i was so glad when i sold it for 20quid, thought i would have to pay to give it away

[paulj]

Whats a hybrid BK2? A BK2 with a XXX gearbox?

it's not a BK2 with a XXX gearbox as the BK2 was already a XXX.

Some of the bits I recall included cutting the steering mounts off and moving them, cutting out the front of the battery tray so the cells were mounted fwd against the servo, lead filled front bulkhead/arm mount, rear arms were reversed, new holes drilled further out on the arms to mount the shocks, CVD's replaced with UJ driveshafts, rear chassis plate and pivot block from the XX CR. In fact it may have been the full XX CR rear end, gearcase, motor plate, etc, but I'm not 100% sure on this. Many team drivers used the Trinity alloy hubs as the had extra options for the ball mount, I think the ball mount fitted into the top of the hub so you could alter roll centre too?

All in all a lot of work and many decided enough was enough and just went out and bought/switched to a B4...

[Northy]

The steering cranks are in the same place it just has a new rack.
XX-CR inner pivot I think.
BK2 rear wishbones?
Truck rear uprights.

Best Losi I've ever driven.

G

[paulj]

Ellis was cutting out the steering mounts on the hybrid to alter the geometry of the steering, I'm pretty sure Doughty had his the same. The complete rack mounts were cut out and turned around - I think to shift them forward and reduce bump steer. I'm sure there were even some pics on the web of Ellis modding the steering for other team drivers at one of the nationals, possibly on the original DoughtyUK forum.

[Northy]

Yes, but they either did that and used the original set-up or fitted the metal steering link as shown in the pictures, not both ;) Did the same sort of thing.

G

[Lee]

Why did they design it to have no steering ? :lol:

[Darren Boyle]

This wasnt long before they tried the inboard motored version either, but they were blocked from running it by Losi sadly

[ashleyb4]

Purely out of intrest and wanting to learn more what does the MF2 rear help do compared to the cr ones? I have pretty much all thoses parts to make a hybrid wouldnt mind having a play around.

A

[Chris Doughty]

MF2 rear hubs were my favorite Losi part ever.

you could fit them and you didn't have to use the dremel to use the outer 'high' holes

I agree with Northy, best my car even was was like this, but I also used the king-pin ball stud.

I TQ'ed a national with it like that against real life B4's and stuff :woot:

[samd]

I thought the bk2 had a different gearbox to the xxx, lower c of g, and the hybrid and cr used a xxx box(or an updated version of the same design). . is this correct. I have a bk2 on its way to me now, is it worth swapping the gearbox for a xxx one, as ive been offered a xxx on the cheep and i seem to read some bad stuff re the bk2s in the uk

[paulj]

MF2 rear hubs were my favorite Losi part ever.

you could fit them and you didn't have to use the dremel to use the outer 'high' holes

I agree with Northy, best my car even was was like this, but I also used the king-pin ball stud.

I TQ'ed a national with it like that against real life B4's and stuff :woot:

Have you still got the hybrid Chris?

[P_B]

Haha, loved the hybrid XXX! Got my XXX-mongrel working ace but it wore out and I reverted to a CR as I couldn't be bothered sourcing and dremelling more odd parts. Check out those kingpin ballstuds!

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/bury260206/bigimages/bury13.jpg

Would say this is probably the order of Losi 2wd effectiveness in the UK...

Hybrid > XXX-CR > XXX-KE > XXX-BK2

Not counting the venerable XX-CR, which would probably edge the BK2 :lol:

[ashleyb4]

What is the best way of doing the king pin ball stud mod?

A

[paulj]

I thought the bk2 had a different gearbox to the xxx, lower c of g, and the hybrid and cr used a xxx box(or an updated version of the same design). . is this correct. I have a bk2 on its way to me now, is it worth swapping the gearbox for a xxx one, as ive been offered a xxx on the cheep and i seem to read some bad stuff re the bk2s in the uk

Hybrid uses' more or less the full rear end off the XXX - gearcase, diff, motorplate, XX CR pivot blocks, BK2 arms but reversed then drill new lower shock mounting holes and one extra hole further out, MF2 hubs or the nice Trinity alloy ones, and UJ driveshafts not CVD.
I think you may need a XXX rear chassis plate but not sure on this as it's been some time now.

Did the BK2 have different gearing requiring a full XXX internal gear set for the Hybrid?

I think the spur gear was changed too to fine tune the motor position?

Oh and bin the graphite chassis - you need to use a plastic one for the full effect ;)

Not sure if the team drivers used the VLA rear arms and hubs at one point either, Chris?

[P_B]

What is the best way of doing the king pin ball stud mod?

A

Ash, you had to source some Lunsford kingpin ball studs for the Losi XX and shim them to fit. To be fair, half the fun of the hybrid was doing the modding so the perceived improvements could partly have been placebo effect from all the bench racing.

The XXX-CR incorporated a lot of the hybrid's changes so just stick to that, it's much easier!

[Chris Doughty]

all of my Losi stuff went back to Helger (now Horizon)

the only thing I might have is the Losi car that never existed

[ashleyb4]

You still got your euro winning xx4 chris?

A

[Northy]

the only thing I might have is the Losi car that never existed

:D:D:D:D:D:D

Chris, would you be able to give us info on the proper team hybrid changes? I'm not sure I can remember 100%.

Cheers,

G

[Chris Doughty]

ah, yes, my Euro winning xx4 - but I call that a trophy now, not a car

Graham - No :p

[Northy]

Awwwwwwwww come on man! :cry:

G

[Chris Doughty]

the car we raced or the car that does not exist?

[ashleyb4]

THe car that doesnt exsist.

A

[Chris Doughty]

how could I give details on a car that does not exist? :eh?:

[PaulRotheram]

with details that also do not exist :D

[Big E]

I have a non existent car in the garage as well :)

But it is not as fast as my other mid motor car!!

[Chris Doughty]

I have a non existent car in the garage as well :)

But it is not as fast as my other mid motor car!!

you have got another one? you sly dog, you didn't tell me! :p

[ashleyb4]

If any of you want to pm me any pictures that dont exsist of the car that doesnt exsist.

A

[samd]

Id love to see a pic of nothing mid motored

[Chris Doughty]

OK... here is a quick picture, but this is the only one OK?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/3194054129_48646f8242.jpg

[lochness42]

OK... here is a quick picture, but this is the only one OK?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/3194054129_48646f8242.jpg
:drool: It's ace
Now I understand all that mods on non existing car :thumbsup:
Thank you Chris

[samd]

Wow, cant see any parts i know

[ashleyb4]

I was bored when i came home from college so i went in the garage for 5 minutes and set about with the dremmel and my tap and did this seems to hold together fine.....

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/3/1/13/f_DSCF0996m_3cf25c8.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/3/1/13/f_DSCF0996m_3cf25c8.jpg&srv=img34)

A

[Lee]

Chris, you have far too much time on your hands :lol:


Ash, can you make that bigger?

[paulj]

Here is the description of the Hybrid that I built at the time, I'd forgot about it being referred to as a BK2.5, when I put it up for sale:

"For Sale XXX BK2.5 as Chris Doughty's TQ car from last 2wd National, built up from ground up around a brand new plastic chassis with graphite VLA arms, towers, new front plates, etc, Lunsford T/buckles, Ti screws, modified chassis with bulkhead cut out to move cells forward. Lunsford Ti kingpin ballstud front suspension mod. Trinity blue alloy front bulkhead-new, Trinity blue alloy rear hubs-new, Lunsford Ti quick tune suspension mounts.

Running Kinwald Edition (BK1) brand new transmission, gearbox housing, new blue alloy motor plate, new U/J driveshafts, full new gearbox internals. Built up with new Losi HD white ball ends, shocks have new Ti nitride shafts and cartridges with MIP blue o rings.

Check out Doughtys forum for more details about the mods run on the XXX, the car does not have the mods that move the steering pick ups on the chassis plate but everything else has been done."

Kind of wish I'd kept hold of that one now :rolleyes:

[ashleyb4]

Sorry about the picture imageshack is playing up so i used a diffren one and it came out huge!!!!!

hehe just finished playing

Need some longer turnbuckles though

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=88&pictureid=1219

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=88&pictureid=1218

A

[jono83]

nice one ash i have got those losi truck turnbuckles so you can have them

[Chris Doughty]

I ran the outside hole on the inner camber link at the front

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/telford270805/imagepages/2wd42.html

and defo longest VLA setting on the front

[ashleyb4]

Did you always run the longest vla on the front?

A

[Chris Doughty]

yes, always longest front, and the hybrid option on the rear

[Gayo]

Now that it is history, could Mr Doughty or any of the then UK Losi drivers tell us a little more about the mysterious mid-motored XXX?
Or is it still classified?:p

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/midlosi/bigimages/midlosi03.jpg

That body was ACE:woot:

[Southwell]

Ash,

You can refer to the indoor setup i posted in this section, it is basically the same as Darren's but changed a bit. All i changed for outdoors was the rear springs and it went well.

[Chris Doughty]

Gayo - its got yellow wheels on it, it can't be mine...

[Gayo]

That makes sense. Sorry.:lol:

[Chris Doughty]

I do agree, that body is the bomb!

the BK2 is the best body, even beter without the side-pods

[Huw333]

http://www.oople.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=88&pictureid=1219
A


Whats the advantage of having the ball stud there then?

[ashleyb4]

Ok chears chris i started out with sleighs sstarting setup he had them on short on the front unless ive got confused along the way somewhere.

A

[ashleyb4]

Whats the advantage of having the ball stud there then?

ill let you know when i find out haha.

A

[ashleyb4]

Well i ran my cr tonight with the following changes the king pin ball studs the front vla on long sintead of short and blue front springs instead of my usualy blacks and omg wow it was awsome.

A

[Southwell]

Whats the advantage of having the ball stud there then?

Should make it feel more aggressive on steering if i remember correctly. I did it on the XXX hyrid a couple of years back.

[PaulRotheram]

Well i ran my cr tonight with the following changes the king pin ball studs the front vla on long sintead of short and blue front springs instead of my usualy blacks and omg wow it was awsome.

A

if your going to tell him what it was like then give more info than that.. :p why was it that good?

I followed the hybrid car closely and did my own when the team where at it, such a good car.. worked well most places I took it.

[ashleyb4]

Yea i figured i should go into more detail but im to tired. Ill make up a setup sheet tommorow. Basically it just steered more and just seemed more stable. beat a a few people ive never beaten before lol.

Thing that made me really happy was beating my friends mike and craig. So much for x6 and f2 craig :p

A

[P_B]

Well i ran my cr tonight with the following changes the king pin ball studs the front vla on long sintead of short and blue front springs instead of my usualy blacks and omg wow it was awsome.

A

Not surprised there, sounds like your 'usualy' setup is gash - just the vla and spring change would have made a big difference. Seriously though, glad you felt the effort was worth it. Now for some MF2 hubs etc to build a 'proper' hybrid...

[lochness42]

I haven't seen those kingpin ballstuds before, where I can get some? :lol:

[ashleyb4]

make them :p drill the cater blocks out and thread the steering knuckles and locktite a ballstud in the top and a screw in the bottom.

A

[Southwell]

Or you can buy actually long king pins, i have some TI ones i may test, got them off Chris Long a couple of years back.

[ashleyb4]

So here is my setup i ran thursday and liked

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8595/crsetupvu9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/crsetupvu9.jpg/1/w764.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img266/crsetupvu9.jpg/1/)

A