New CAT SX

[Cassp0nk]

Just picked this up today.

http://gallery.seloc.org/albums/userpics/10128/_DAN2005.jpg


I've not had an RC car for 20 years so really looking forward to building this.

The car was fresh from Schumacher and has a 44mm front link mount and the strengthened outdrives which I believe are the latest fixes/mods?

Thanks to MK Racing who were very helpful and put together a great deal including sourcing a 2nd hand radio at a great price. Also thanks to everyone here who has been patiently responding to my questions.

[tony12795]

You will not regret getting the CAT SX !!!

Have fun and we should see a post of it built by errrr Sunday night :D

If you have any questions mate just ask.

Tony

[chris68nufc]

Credit crunch my arse. Love it!

[Cassp0nk]

Thanks guys. I can't understand how people can wait a week to run their cars when getting them painted up! Considering getting a spare shell and just running with transparent body. Bit concerned the shell won't be paintable once used though?

Seems I need to buy a soldering iron too as god knows where mine is :(

[glypo]

Wow that is awesome.

Amazing setup there, you have got all the good stuff! TrakPower, Bantam, EDS and of course Schumacher! MK is the nuts and will always do the top stuff, so you made a good choice.

Didn't realise you were local, are you going to be racing Newbury with it?

[schmacher]

the cat is a really fun car to build...enjoy

[Cassp0nk]

Wow that is awesome.

Amazing setup there, you have got all the good stuff! TrakPower, Bantam, EDS and of course Schumacher! MK is the nuts and will always do the top stuff, so you made a good choice.

Didn't realise you were local, are you going to be racing Newbury with it?

Dunno was thinking maybe Eden Park once I've checked the distance from my house, but will probably try newbury too. Quite like the idea of outdoors, although to be honest gonna be bashing for a bit to build some skill.

Only bit that people told me was a bit duff is the losi engine + controller, but willing to take a chance as I think its mostly early firmware that caused issues. I guess I'll find out eh ;)

My wallet hurts!

Thanks for all your reviews mate. May have shaped some of my purchases ;) p.s. there is a 10 amp version of that charger for 20 quid more, but requires an external power supply. Decided against it.

[i4n]

Isn't CML Raceway down that neck of the woods? That would cure your need for an outside fix without having to go too far.

[Cassp0nk]

Isn't CML Raceway down that neck of the woods? That would cure your need for an outside fix without having to go too far.

Just looked it up. About an hour away.

I'm based in Walton-On-Thames.

Eden park is only 20 miles from me, but nightmare drive through suburban London.

Shame there isn't a track at Mercedes World Brooklands! Someone should convince them!

[franki]

Just picked this up today.

http://gallery.seloc.org/albums/userpics/10128/_DAN2005.jpg


I've not had an RC car for 20 years so really looking forward to building this.

The car was fresh from Schumacher and has a 44mm front link mount and the strengthened outdrives which I believe are the latest fixes/mods?

Thanks to MK Racing who were very helpful and put together a great deal including sourcing a 2nd hand radio at a great price. Also thanks to everyone here who has been patiently responding to my questions.

Mint :drool:

[glypo]

Wow you are quite local, my Nan lives in Walton-On-Thames. I live Camberley/Farnborough area. The park by Brooklands/Mercedes Benz World is awesome for bashing but the park wardens don't like it for some reason though :(

You will Newbury track easy to get too, as it's basically two roads. M3 then A339/ Advantage of Newbury is it's weather proof being indoors, very important this time of year.

I am going to get down both Eden Park and CML Raceway in the summer so might see you there :)

[JackWood]

Hi,
First post, but been lurking here for a while.
I also just bought my first RC car in 20 years from Marc at MK. And guess what, it was a Cat SX.
Amazing car to build. Got the car as a Christmas present to myself. Spent the week before Christmas building it, on the proviso from the wife that I couldn't drive it until Christmas day.
Loved building it. It is a work of art. I too couldn't wait to drive it, so ran it with clear shells. Not that bothered myself about the shell.
Unfortunately the Losi Xceleron only ran for about 10 minutes max before it had a major melt down. Marc has been great and the whole unit has been replaced under warranty. I should have the replacement back on Monday. Hopefully this one will work a little better.
I will get some pics as soon as I have it back together, but I'm running an LRP Lipo, and used some of the advice here to attach velcro to the battery strap to stop it sliding. The humps on the battery have to sit perfectly between the 2 pulleys at the front end, next to the servo. But with a bit of wire shortening, you can get a really neat set-up between the motor, ESC and Lipo.

Cassponk, what pinion size did you go for? Marc only had a 17T when I had mine delivered, but I have a larger one on the way with the new controller/motor.

[Cassp0nk]

Hi,
First post, but been lurking here for a while.
I also just bought my first RC car in 20 years from Marc at MK. And guess what, it was a Cat SX.
Amazing car to build. Got the car as a Christmas present to myself. Spent the week before Christmas building it, on the proviso from the wife that I couldn't drive it until Christmas day.
Loved building it. It is a work of art. I too couldn't wait to drive it, so ran it with clear shells. Not that bothered myself about the shell.
Unfortunately the Losi Xceleron only ran for about 10 minutes max before it had a major melt down. Marc has been great and the whole unit has been replaced under warranty. I should have the replacement back on Monday. Hopefully this one will work a little better.
I will get some pics as soon as I have it back together, but I'm running an LRP Lipo, and used some of the advice here to attach velcro to the battery strap to stop it sliding. The humps on the battery have to sit perfectly between the 2 pulleys at the front end, next to the servo. But with a bit of wire shortening, you can get a really neat set-up between the motor, ESC and Lipo.

Cassponk, what pinion size did you go for? Marc only had a 17T when I had mine delivered, but I have a larger one on the way with the new controller/motor.

Glad I'm not the only one spending too much on a bit of a whim!

I've got a 22T pinion on advice from here. 17T seems quite a long way off? That would give you a lot of torque but slow accel right?

Putting 2 & 2 together, I think Marc mentoned your controller when I was asking about reliability having been warned off the controller by a few on here. Great service from the distributor! I've just updated the firmware on mine and had no probs. I like how they are configurable from software and all the cables etc are included. Some of the other controllers seem to requre morse code button presses to set things and that sucks!

[JackWood]

Good acceleration, but lower top speed. Lots of torque. At least by my understanding. Anyone who actually knows what they are talking about want to comment?

Personally I was gobsmacked by the speed of this sucker even with this small pinion. Of course I had the Losi set up to 100% throttle, but when the new one gets here I am going to linit it to 60 or 80% until I have got used to the car. It's bloody rapid!!

The little programming card is a pretty cool thing. Never got to update the firmware or even get the softwar into the laptop and plug into the USB. Will do that as soon as I get the new one.

I found the slipper was too loose as stock following the manual, so try it before you put the layshaft gear cover on (one of the last ops).

Also get some adhesive velcro strips (I got mine from Halfords) for the battery strap. I just got a 4" strip, stuck it to the battery strap (both pieces of velcro attached together) and then trimmed both pieces using scissors to the shape of the strap. Then peeled off the backing of the other velcro piece and placed the strap on top of the battery in the car. Then you have the velcro stuck to the battery adn to the strap, so neatly that you can't see any velcro until you remove the strap and the battery.

[Cassp0nk]

Good acceleration, but lower top speed. Lots of torque. At least by my understanding. Anyone who actually knows what they are talking about want to comment?

Personally I was gobsmacked by the speed of this sucker even with this small pinion. Of course I had the Losi set up to 100% throttle, but when the new one gets here I am going to linit it to 60 or 80% until I have got used to the car. It's bloody rapid!!

The little programming card is a pretty cool thing. Never got to update the firmware or even get the softwar into the laptop and plug into the USB. Will do that as soon as I get the new one.

I found the slipper was too loose as stock following the manual, so try it before you put the layshaft gear cover on (one of the last ops).

Also get some adhesive velcro strips (I got mine from Halfords) for the battery strap. I just got a 4" strip, stuck it to the battery strap (both pieces of velcro attached together) and then trimmed both pieces using scissors to the shape of the strap. Then peeled off the backing of the other velcro piece and placed the strap on top of the battery in the car. Then you have the velcro stuck to the battery adn to the strap, so neatly that you can't see any velcro until you remove the strap and the battery.

You are right on the pinion. More torque = quicker accel!

If you look at the factory setup guides, they are all 22 or 23 which is what I was recommended here, so fairly certain that is the one to go for. Not sure where I got this impression from, but I thought running a pinion quite a long way from optimum wasn't terribly good for the ESC or maybe the motor? Someone informed able to comment?

Will have to play with the clutch. None of this stuff was around when I had my last one!

p.s. thanks for the tip with the velcro. I was thinking about velcro for the battery as I don't like glueing things onto packs really.

p.p.s. was planning to do that myself on the throttle. Can probably do the trick they recommend in the firmware update for the brake. i.e. give yourself 100% (well for the brake they say 80%) and then use the radios limit to trim it down. That way you don't have to mess around programming the ESC if you want to change it in a hurry, just change the setting in the radio.

[BlackedOutMugen]

Yea, your acceleration/bottom end would be great, but top end no so much.

A undergeared motor can, and will run as hot as a over geared motor because there isnt enough load on it.

I run a Orion 5.5, LRP speedo, and a TrakPower lipo (like my sig) and I have it geared at 20-22 depending on how much top I need. Its just stupid fast, and I usually run my 20T, have all the midfield punch, and top you could ever need. I can run till the LVC racing for a good 25 mins, and after that nothing is over 160, 150-155 area. All I have for cooling is the little air vent cut out on the motor side

Wiring is nice, neat, and short with a pack like the Trakpower lol, everything is so close

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq259/BlackedOutREVO/Cat%20SX/IMG_4670.jpg

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq259/BlackedOutREVO/Cat%20SX/IMG_4675.jpg

Its tight, but everything clears, nothing rubs. So for a 6.5 id run anywhere from a 22-24 and just mess around with it. But say 17 is to small.. At least run a 20

[Cassp0nk]

Thanks for that info and nicely wired car. I'm having to buy a soldering iron tomorrow to tidy mine up! Do you know if a point tip is ok for car work? Would rather a flat tip on the iron but cracking deal on one with only a point tip, and no flat tips are available for it.

p.s. I see you like blacked out cars. Maybe you know if its possible to make the shell look matt black? I posted a thread on the painting section asking about this with a pic of a 911 GT3 matt black but no answers yet. Seems like something that might be up your street! http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17756

[Cassp0nk]

p.s. is there any reason I can't put bullet connectors of some type between motor and ESC in case I want to switch motors quickly? If so what type of connectors are recommended?

[glypo]

You certainly can, most ESC's come with these already. I believe the default size for this is 3.5mm gold connectors. Very similar to the Corally style 4mm's you use with TrackPower etc just a little smaller.

The only downside is a little more resistance and it takes up more space also. I tend to prefer just a straight solder, as motors are relatively simple and safe (in terms of heat resistance) to solder. That said at the moment I have 3.5mm's on my CAT (or whatever the default connectors that come with the Tekin are), however they take up room and are going to be soldered out before the Petit RC race next weekend.

[BlackedOutMugen]

Thanks for that info and nicely wired car. I'm having to buy a soldering iron tomorrow to tidy mine up! Do you know if a point tip is ok for car work? Would rather a flat tip on the iron but cracking deal on one with only a point tip, and no flat tips are available for it.

p.s. I see you like blacked out cars. Maybe you know if its possible to make the shell look matt black? I posted a thread on the painting section asking about this with a pic of a 911 GT3 matt black but no answers yet. Seems like something that might be up your street! http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17756

No prob:) And thanks! I like to use a flat tip, but have used the pointy one. It works, But it doesnt heat up the joints to fast, so soldering wires right to a speedo or something would end up jacked up. You can just take a dremel or file and make the tip flat though?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=flat+black&search=Go

Im not sure where you buy your stuff. But that link has flat black paint. I have tried some flat black paint before (forget the brand, I think it was Tamiya?) And it looks like that 911.



p.s. is there any reason I can't put bullet connectors of some type between motor and ESC in case I want to switch motors quickly? If so what type of connectors are recommended?

You COULD, BUT wiring the car up cleaner wouldnt go so well lol, usually looks kind of funky. But it works. You could use some bullet plugs, or deans. Depends on what you want to use. I personally just plug in the iron and go that way, I just dont like having a bunch of connectors and all in my car, more things to go wrong. But you definitely can!:lol:

EDIT-

http://www.racing-cars.com/usa/products.asp?recnumber=48435

You could run those. Makes soldering a little easier if you dont like to. I have never used them, but my buddies have and they work pretty well

[Cassp0nk]

Thanks guys. Guess dremelling that iron is the way forward ;)

Will leave the bullets out of it for now as agree they look messy. Maybe change my mind if I ever get another motor.

p.s. flat black paint s going to look shiney if painted inside a shell surely? Thats why I was thinking I'd have to matt up the outside?

[BlackedOutMugen]

Thanks guys. Guess dremelling that iron is the way forward ;)

Will leave the bullets out of it for now as agree they look messy. Maybe change my mind if I ever get another motor.

p.s. flat black paint s going to look shiney if painted inside a shell surely? Thats why I was thinking I'd have to matt up the outside?

You can try it with the pointy tip, but id go for the flat tip. Dremel, or what ever you need to do. Makes soldering SOOO much easier IMO..

Nope, mine looked like flat black. Just painted it in, no sanding or any of that. I wish I had pics.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Can definitely recommend getting down to Eden Park - but don't wait until the summer!
The journey cross town might not be great but there's likely to be not much traffic at 7am on a sunday morning and you'll be grinning too much to care on the way back home:thumbsup:
1st Feb is the next meeting in their winter series - there was a good turn out at the last meeting considering it was -4.5 deg C when I got to the track.:cry:

Will be running my CAT there next time so we'll be able to scratch our heads together if you're struggling for a set up - plus there's normally at least one team driver there so there's always someone else's brains to pick as well.

Hope to see you there - you too Glypo (don't wait until it warms up!!)

p.s. your kit looks awesome:drool:. Glad to see you've gone for a proper car racer's Radio - none of this aero modelling stick radio malarky:p

[Chrislong]

Will be running my CAT there next time so we'll be able to scratch our heads together if you're struggling for a set up - plus there's normally at least one team driver there so there's always someone else's brains to pick as well.


If your struggling, print the setup out that I have posted in the setups thread, its excellent. ;)

[Cassp0nk]

If your struggling, print the setup out that I have posted in the setups thread, its excellent. ;)

Does it require any option parts?

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Does it require any option parts?

TBH, the car seems good out of the box but investing in some optional springs would be wise. At the moment, it seems that Red and possibly Grey fronts are useful plus red rears for the Lipo car. Some additional shock pistons will enable you to fine tune at little extra cost and the optional narrow upper link plates (with longer front turnbuckles) are good for when you need to lose some grip.

Take a look at the RACER mag review this month (sorry for the shameless plug). We ran at EPR with the car out of the box (with no additional weights) but with the above link plates and springs. It's a good starting base as it seemed fairly viceless and confidence inspiring - especially with the narrow link plates.

You'll find more up to date set up info either on the schumacher website or on this forum than the set up that the instructions define.

You can bling it even further with the alloy transmission uppers but they're not strictly necessary to begin with.

Come over to EPR on the 1st and have a play...

[Chrislong]

Does it require any option parts?

For my setup: Essential
Narrow rear camber link plate - 39mm
Longer rear turnbuckles (I used 60mm to reach outer most hole on hub)
One way front diff
1 pair of 2 hole pistons
Ney grey front springs & new red rear springs

Not essential, and I am using:
Alloy shock mounts
One way roller layshaft

[Cassp0nk]

Front 1 way diff means no front brakes right? How can that be good? (I'm approaching this from a real car perspective so it makes no sense!)

[Cassp0nk]

TBH, the car seems good out of the box but investing in some optional springs would be wise. At the moment, it seems that Red and possibly Grey fronts are useful plus red rears for the Lipo car. Some additional shock pistons will enable you to fine tune at little extra cost and the optional narrow upper link plates (with longer front turnbuckles) are good for when you need to lose some grip.

Take a look at the RACER mag review this month (sorry for the shameless plug). We ran at EPR with the car out of the box (with no additional weights) but with the above link plates and springs. It's a good starting base as it seemed fairly viceless and confidence inspiring - especially with the narrow link plates.

You'll find more up to date set up info either on the schumacher website or on this forum than the set up that the instructions define.

You can bling it even further with the alloy transmission uppers but they're not strictly necessary to begin with.

Come over to EPR on the 1st and have a play...

Thanks for all the info. Is that mag in Smiths etc?

[lochness42]

Maybe another stupid Schumacher/Losi question from me, but do Losi springs fit Schumacher shocks?

[Chrislong]

Front 1 way diff means no front brakes right? How can that be good? (I'm approaching this from a real car perspective so it makes no sense!)

When you brake an RC car, which in scale is VERY light in relation to full size (i.e. 15-17 kilos!!!!!), if front wheels brake then the car will tend to understeer when braking quite severely. The same physics do not fully apply but I can see the logic.

With a roller layshaft, then only the rear locks up, but being so light it isn't like handbraking a real car - it just makes the rear stepout enough to get into the corner and on the power. We have more rear toe in on an RC car than a real car, otherwise its likely the RC car would spin out though.

With a one way diff, same as above, but getting on the power the car will have more aggressive steering as it will not "diff out" from the front and instead pull hard from the front. Much like a rally car/auto-test real car having a welded up diff and only using handbrake - but with less severe effect.

Hard to explain, but do try the setup. ;)

[Chrislong]

Maybe another stupid Schumacher/Losi question from me, but do Losi springs fit Schumacher shocks?

Yes

To use AE silver rear springs, you will need AE spring retainers as the spring is too long, and without these you won't get your ride height low enough.

[Gnarly Old Dog]

Thanks for all the info. Is that mag in Smiths etc?

Yes,
It's the current issue so you shouldn't have any problems in getting hold of one.
Instantly recognisable - it has the CAT on the cover :thumbsup:

Cheers

[Cassp0nk]

When you brake an RC car, which in scale is VERY light in relation to full size (i.e. 15-17 kilos!!!!!), if front wheels brake then the car will tend to understeer when braking quite severely. The same physics do not fully apply but I can see the logic.

With a roller layshaft, then only the rear locks up, but being so light it isn't like handbraking a real car - it just makes the rear stepout enough to get into the corner and on the power. We have more rear toe in on an RC car than a real car, otherwise its likely the RC car would spin out though.

With a one way diff, same as above, but getting on the power the car will have more aggressive steering as it will not "diff out" from the front and instead pull hard from the front. Much like a rally car/auto-test real car having a welded up diff and only using handbrake - but with less severe effect.

Hard to explain, but do try the setup. ;)

Thanks. Beginning to get the picture, but couple more questions to clarify if I may?

When you say diff out, you mean spinning up the inside wheel?

Do RC cars never have LSDs?

What's the behaviour of a 1-way diff? Locked under power and disconnected from drive on the overrun?

When RC cars brake, are the braking wheels pretty much always locked?

Seems like the physics is more rally car than race car!

[Chrislong]

Yeh, diff out - that means to spin up the inside wheel through a turn rather than drive forward.

LSD, nah, we can't concentrate on the cars if we take that shit. :lol: But seriously the diffs are a slight form of LSD, if one is tightened then the diffing out is less, but it becomes more like a fixed axle. A true LSD has been thought about but in the sizes we use one can't be made with ease, or with reliability.

A 1 way diff - basically the outdrives on each side are independent of each other mounted on a one way bearing. So when the diff gear is stopped or slower than the car is travelling, the outdrives can roll forward. But when the diff gear turns the outdrives turn at the same speed and no slower. This means when you turn and break, rear can step out, then re apply the power and the car pulls hard from the front. Through a turn the car will be pulled by the inside front wheel whereas with a stock-diff this wheel would diff out.

Also, if one wheel leaves the ground, there is still drive from the other.

I suppose it is more rally car than race car, but for a lot of things it is trial and error to proove it works.

[David Church]

[quote=Cassp0nk;194728]

Glad to see you comeback to the sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eden Park is a great track!!!!!!! Winter series runs the first Sunday of the month during winter months.
Please come in Feb!!!! You will be made to feel very welcome and many will help with setup and any questions you may have!!!!:D

[DaveG28]

Guys, can you fit normal servo's in the cat lipo or only low profile ones?

[shark]

Normal fit in a treat:thumbsup: all the spacers are in the box

[Cassp0nk]

[quote=Cassp0nk;194728]

Glad to see you comeback to the sport!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eden Park is a great track!!!!!!! Winter series runs the first Sunday of the month during winter months.
Please come in Feb!!!! You will be made to feel very welcome and many will help with setup and any questions you may have!!!!:D

Thats great. Think it may be a month or two before I'm going near any races though ;)