Round by round ftd tyres

[skiv]

So after racing at the weekend I must say I am not a fan of round by round.
It seems most tracks new tyres seem to be key for quick runs. Especially Astro. I heard someone used 5 new sets of tyres that day hence why there car looked really good and quick.

I used a set of used tyres and one set of new I was quick for two rounds of qualifying and come the finals the car felt loose.

So is it fairer to run ftd over round by round so you don't have to be quick over however many runs it is to count.

Also would it be better to limit tyres at reginals like they do in brca tc events such as nationals.

[PaulRotheram]

Round by round works better as you have to be consistent - you are able to drop rounds where you mess up.

FTD - if it is dry in round one, and you mess up, then it rains for the following rounds, you have NO chance to do anything.
Or the same for some tracks, the grip levels change - high grip at the start and dust / dirt comes up making the surface less grippy = slower time.

You 'heard' someone used 5 new sets - you heard nothing but crap, even national drivers dont tend to do that anymore. And even if they did, does that mean you have to? Are you fighting for top 3 places at regionals / nationals?

I go through two a meeting, and then use both pairs for practice another time, they get plenty of use.

[Piles]

So after racing at the weekend I must say I am not a fan of round by round.
It seems most tracks new tyres seem to be key for quick runs. Especially Astro. I heard someone used 5 new sets of tyres that day hence why there car looked really good and quick.

I used a set of used tyres and one set of new I was quick for two rounds of qualifying and come the finals the car felt loose.

So is it fairer to run ftd over round by round so you don't have to be quick over however many runs it is to count.

Also would it be better to limit tyres at reginals like they do in brca tc events such as nationals.


Round by round was introduced to help with fairer qualifying if weather turns bad. But unfortunatley the idea is badly floored. I dont know why its still favoured. Sunday I was the victim of round by round and qualified badly as a result. Ftd is far fairer especially on the more favoured tracks of astro as we seem to run now. Degradation of the old style grass tracks is negated. I for one would vote for FTD to be re-introduced.

[skiv]

No I am not fighting for top three positions if I was I wouldn't be posting this thread.
I can see both points but I would still favour ftd as tyres seem to be a key to a quick time and some of us don't want to be spending fortunes on tyres chasing quick times.

[PaulRotheram]

If tyres favour a quick time - which of course it does, then why would it not matter in FTD? you still get 4 runs to put in a time, if you run new tyres for each run, then you can impove?

If you run the same set all day, then youl go slower? So how is it better?

[Steveonamission]

Don't race buggy's, however isn't there a control rule where you are only allowed a certain number of new sets maximum? Otherwise that sucks and i'm glad I don't race them.

[RLGfx]

Degradation of the old style grass tracks is negated.
Clearly you weren't at the 2wd mid west regional at hinckley on Sunday...

[daz75]

guess it the same as any form of motor sport, the people with more money do better :thumbdown:

[fidspeed]

its like anything if you want/can fight for top positions then you have to follow the trend

you can be Lee Martin/Neil Cragg on the wheel or sticks but that's no good if your tyres are shot , mainly because others will change as often as necessary . it may indeed be a set a run its not unheard of although most astro tracks you should get two runs without a noticeable drop off

ftd offers no solution really as weather conditions track surfaces can change drastically

we even suffered this in a regional this weekend in two out of four rounds so it still wasn't "fair"
if you went back to ftd and got a clean run in round one and it suddenly rained why bother to run any more rounds just wait for the final

money cant buy talent top guys have the equipment and talent equipment is not the great black art it once was you can easily run with the best with budget equipment

I don't think there is a perfect solution

[Aire valley]

Round by round works better as you have to be consistent - you are able to drop rounds where you mess up.

FTD - if it is dry in round one, and you mess up, then it rains for the following rounds, you have NO chance to do anything.
Or the same for some tracks, the grip levels change - high grip at the start and dust / dirt comes up making the surface less grippy = slower time.

You 'heard' someone used 5 new sets - you heard nothing but crap, even national drivers dont tend to do that anymore. And even if they did, does that mean you have to? Are you fighting for top 3 places at regionals / nationals?

I go through two a meeting, and then use both pairs for practice another time, they get plenty of use.

Mmmm....so one set per round is crap....but you use two sets per meeting.....I.e one set every two and a half rounds...:lol:
..still seems pretty expensive to me...!:rolleyes:

[discostu]

This is a typical tc racer racing buggy I was the same when I moved over

It's pretty simple if you want to be at the top of buggy and tc racing new tyres all the way

I'm not sure if tc racing is still the same we had control tyres two sets per meeting round 1&2 new round 1 round 3& final 1 new round 3 all rears for 2nd final

Buggy round 1&2 new for r1 round 3&4 new round 3 new final 1&2 new for final 1 final 3 no need to race as already won

You have more races if you make the A so will need more tyres

If I were racing nats I would use a new set of rears on 2wd every run including finals

And use the same sets in the rear of the 4wd for Sunday

2set of front on both 2wd and 4wd

It's is what it is if your competive enough to be thinking this way you will be putting new tyres on if you really don't care you will use used

Stu

[mark christopher]

So after racing at the weekend I must say I am not a fan of round by round.
It seems most tracks new tyres seem to be key for quick runs. Especially Astro. I heard someone used 5 new sets of tyres that day hence why there car looked really good and quick.

I used a set of used tyres and one set of new I was quick for two rounds of qualifying and come the finals the car felt loose.

So is it fairer to run ftd over round by round so you don't have to be quick over however many runs it is to count.

Also would it be better to limit tyres at reginals like they do in brca tc events such as nationals.

That's a non argument, if it's on ftd the driver you say used a set a round will still use a set a round, even on astro, it might rain, sand may come out of the astro.

I race buggies round by round and a national serries on ftd.
FTD benefits one run wonders, round by round fast consistent drivers.

[daz75]

This is a typical tc racer racing buggy I was the same when I moved over

It's pretty simple if you want to be at the top of buggy and tc racing new tyres all the way

I'm not sure if tc racing is still the same we had control tyres two sets per meeting round 1&2 new round 1 round 3& final 1 new round 3 all rears for 2nd final

Buggy round 1&2 new for r1 round 3&4 new round 3 new final 1&2 new for final 1 final 3 no need to race as already won

You have more races if you make the A so will need more tyres

If I were racing nats I would use a new set of rears on 2wd every run including finals

And use the same sets in the rear of the 4wd for Sunday

2set of front on both 2wd and 4wd

It's is what it is if your competive enough to be thinking this way you will be putting new tyres on if you really don't care you will use used

Stu

Jesus that's a lot of tires it's been a long time since I raced either my dad couldn't afford it or tires lasted longer back then

[skiv]

It's not a argument just interested in people's thoughts that's all. And what I have experienced over the last few meetings. There are some interesting points and it clearly appears tyres are a huge factor not just in buggies over all rc classes.

[fidspeed]

Tyres are the single most important factor in all motorsport because they are the only item that contacts the terra firma and instigates forward movement .

In 25 years of racing the "right tyre" used at the right time makes more difference than any chassis /setup alterations

look at F1 they have weather monitors forecasting weather changes just so they can be on the right tyre when needed

years ago when outdoor tracks were predominately grass green minispikes were the order of the day and I seem to remember they did last a bit longer than today because they were a harder compound than the yellows we use on astro now

regards dave

[skiv]

I completely understand that tyres are the most important factor. I just find it quite frustrating how quickly they last. Especially when the tyres look fine but just don't perform as well after a couple of runs.

[Welshy40]

Round by round was introduced to help with fairer qualifying if weather turns bad. But unfortunatley the idea is badly floored. I dont know why its still favoured. Sunday I was the victim of round by round and qualified badly as a result. Ftd is far fairer especially on the more favoured tracks of astro as we seem to run now. Degradation of the old style grass tracks is negated. I for one would vote for FTD to be re-introduced.


I agree, ftd is fairer, even though Jody Denner didnt deserve to tq kidderminster national in the 90s he did the best run in the dry before the rain, however if your good enough and appears on that day no one was against Jody and shows that a great setup helps you can take tq in the wet after someones posted ftd in the dry, and yes I have done that (against Jody as well) so round by round is several steps backwards to ftd.

[Aire valley]

It always seems to me that "round by round" was some bureaucratic decision to overcome some complaint about track conditions changing...(in case of rain etc..if it rains ,I go home..:lol:).... Like, most of those rules, it is over the top and has been applied to just about every meeting, when it , probably, was only intended for "changing conditions "....
Clubs have the option to use either, but most stick to round by round at every meeting, even indoor...!
I know that I am old fashioned, but give me FTD every time...

[dwp102]

FTD is more of a spectacle also

[Danosborne6661]

The only thing I don't like about round by round is you forget what it's like to go RACING!

You can't look at the results and go 'Oh I need to drive fast and do a '14 - 304' to get in the top 10. Instead you just got to constantly drive more average than everyone else and see where you come out :lol:

Round by round just takes that slight competitive edge of it some how.

[PaulRotheram]

Mmmm....so one set per round is crap....but you use two sets per meeting.....I.e one set every two and a half rounds...:lol:
..still seems pretty expensive to me...!:rolleyes:

Which then get used for practice meetings, so results to being fair game for durability.

If your not willing to use one or two sets of tyres for a regional or national then stick to club racing and enjoy it.

[PaulRotheram]

I still haven't read a valid point why FTD results in less new tyres being used?

[discostu]

It make no difference FTD or R by R each type has its own pros and cons I prefer R by R

And yeah I will stick tyres on to have the edge every time tyres are the most important factor of any for of motor racing

[PaulRotheram]

Thats my point stu.. the OP seems to think it is the case however :confused::eh?:

[Steveonamission]

I still haven't read a valid point why FTD results in less new tyres being used?

Round by Round needs to be paired with a maximum tyre rule to work best for everyone, otherwise it's as bad as FTD with regards to weather - that's the real point.

Maximum tyre set rule makes it fair for everyone, makes racing more interesting because it adds tyre management and even strategy to it (but with round by round it makes everyone go out) and tests driving ability in lower grip conditions - Easy to police too with tyre/wheel nail varnish or sticker marking, which is ticked off on a driver chart too.

Unfortunately I find it a little sad that references to full size motorsport come into play; as much as some ego's don't like it, these are toy cars so cost for the young (without rich dads) and family's should be priority awareness.

[PaulRotheram]

Maximum tyre set rule makes it fair for everyone, makes racing more interesting because it adds tyre management and even strategy to it (but with round by round it makes everyone go out) and tests driving ability in lower grip conditions - Easy to police too with tyre/wheel nail varnish or sticker marking, which is ticked off on a driver chart too.



Find the people at clubs willing to do it, then its viable. There are next to no people who actively help clubs, its always been the way - and that's why such rules dont exist due to man power.

[Steveonamission]

Find the people at clubs willing to do it, then its viable. There are next to no people who actively help clubs, its always been the way - and that's why such rules dont exist due to man power.

Unfortunately that is another real case and so admittedly, this sort of policing is only suitable at BRCA level events, where host clubs don't take on more responsibility.

[mark christopher]

Round by Round needs to be paired with a maximum tyre rule to work best for everyone, otherwise it's as bad as FTD with regards to weather - that's the real point.

Maximum tyre set rule makes it fair for everyone, makes racing more interesting because it adds tyre management and even strategy to it (but with round by round it makes everyone go out) and tests driving ability in lower grip conditions - Easy to police too with tyre/wheel nail varnish or sticker marking, which is ticked off on a driver chart too.

Unfortunately I find it a little sad that references to full size motorsport come into play; as much as some ego's don't like it, these are toy cars so cost for the young (without rich dads) and family's should be priority awareness.



so what stops some one using a set for ftd, when the fastes time wins, then your going to do all to make sure it is your fastest run...

[Steveonamission]

so what stops some one using a set for ftd, when the fastes time wins, then your going to do all to make sure it is your fastest run...

I don't understand the point you are making? You seem to have just explained FTD to everyone...

Anyway, it was always a problem in touring car, so that's why I chimed in. I remember someone used a new set every round at a (FTD) event, they qualified 10th in A and I qualified BQ, so I quit because i'm a sore loser :p:woot:.

[daz75]

What do they do at the world champs I know they have control tyres but is it just use a new set every round?

I used to love running near bald rear yellow minis in doors

[skiv]

I am pleased it wasn't just me that didn't understand his point lol

[Uberdude]

I raced at a regional event last week end, now I used 2 sets of tyres we had 4 qualifying rounds and 3 leg finals the qualifying was round by round.

To be honest I ended up having a poor day one of my rear wheels (brand new) is out of shape and that set was awful, shame i didn't realise but hey that's racing.

My point at this meeting were 30 drivers most of which are of a club racer standard most run 1 or 2 sets of tyres, but in the top heat I know of one driver that used 8 pairs of rear tyres don't know how many fronts but 8 sets of rears. Whiles I could see this at a national event but a regional with 30 drivers he didn't even qualify pole now to me that's just excessive, wear was an issue running mini pins indoors.

i made middle of the B effectively running 2 sets of tyres one being rubbish compared to the other did it really Warent 60 quid + in tyres plus rims and insert just for a meeting, I guess it's the drivers choice or if they are a sponsored driver and have a deal on tyre it's not so bad but joe public pay good money to race as well but get beat by the check book racer. I guess it is what it is but to encourage new drivers into the hobby control needs to be gathered or no new blood will enter the hobby as it's far to expensive to be competitive I would be for a control number of tyres for each meeting as previous have said then it's more about management and driver ability.

I probably won't bother with the rest of the regionals due to this I would rather run club races as at the most people have 1 new set for the meeting as its club racing. Just think that guy could have run around on rims and still only been 10 in the C final. Round by round it's not my preferred qualifying method either but that a different topic.

[Si Coe]

The issue is not with drivers using multiple sets of tyres - ultimately it is with the need to do so to be competitive.
Fresh rubber is always an advantage, but if the difference is not significant there is little point wasting money on it unless you really want to. Cheque book racers will always try to buy themselves an edge, but frequently its purely psychological.
However modern 2wd cars are heavily dependent on the rear tyres themselves for traction due to all that weight moved forwards. Performance drops off rapidly as the tyre wears, making a fresh set very handy.

Maybe its time to retire (no pun intended) the venerable yellow minispike and replace it with something more durable but less grippy. Something where the 'edge' took a few more races to really wear off, and that encouraged the use of cars where some weight over the back axle was required to get any traction at all.
The money men would still use a fresh set every run, but instead of grumbling the rest of us would just laugh at them spending far more than they need to.....

[Stickygeko]

Maybe its time to retire (no pun intended) the venerable yellow minispike and replace it with something more durable but less grippy. Something where the 'edge' took a few more races to really wear off, and that encouraged the use of cars where some weight over the back axle was required to get any traction at all.
The money men would still use a fresh set every run, but instead of grumbling the rest of us would just laugh at them spending far more than they need to.....


Thats it si, my lad went through 3 pair of yellow at rhr yesterday 2 runs and they were losing rear grip towards the end of 2nd run, im going to try blue at southport today. I dont mind spending on tyres for big events but club days ill run 1 set all day and make do