Brushless - does anyone suffer from lack of brakes.

[Colinevan]

Iv drove a few brushed cars again today and its amazing how much quiker they stop. If im coming down the straight at full pelt, the car doesnt want to stop at all.

I usually run the front one way roller and diff, so to improve things first of all, i took this out and had perm 4wd with a ball diff. This helped a little.

Iv altered the settings on the speedo (Novak GTB 5.5 to) include 50 % min drag and upped the drag brake and even altered the tx settings so that the punch is right up to max on brakes.

I drove a few other 4wd's with brushed setups and they stop immediately. The brakes do work, but for some reason only at low speeds and it deffo wouldnt lock the wheels up. at full pelt the effect is minimal.

I have heard today that brushless motors dont have proper brakes hence the prob.

Anyone else in the same boat??

Does anyone have any opinions on this. Im going to try a brushed setup in it as a comparison. but thought id get some advice as well.

Thanks

Col.

[DCM]

Brakes come down to the ESC, if the Brakes have the same power as a brushed controller, it won't feel as good, as the brakes have got to be powered harder with a brushless. The only brushless I got at the mo, is in a 16th scale, and it is enough to easily lock the wheels....

[mark christopher]

i have mamba max, 4600 and 5700 and also nosram latest 07 and 5.5, all stop and lock wheels like i allways end up tuning brakes out

[Colinevan]

Hmmm my brakes do work.. just not very well...there virtually none existant lol.. i even let a few guys have a go on my car today and in comparison i drove theres..

Incidentally are you running any of the brushless setups in 4wd??

My b4 which has a ss 5800 novak setup is ok and can lock the rears. Iv not tried this combo in the lazer though to compare.

Thanks

Col.

[Colinevan]

Iv decided to ask some advice from novak usa.

I'll post the results too show everyone what they say.

Col.:cool:

[mark christopher]

only in a touring car

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Ive been running a 5.5 Novak in my XX4 today at Batley and the brakes which are set nearly at the bottom settings nearly stop the car dead so I think there must be a problem with yours.

[Colinevan]

Hmm strange eh.. I know its not faulty as the unit does brake. Its also less then 6 months old as this one was a replacement from cml as the old one set on fire lol.

Iv emailed novak, and this is the reply they give: -

Hello Sir,



I’m sorry you’re having BL problems.



I would say the standard Rotor does suffer in the braking department. More “push” and drag brake is needed.



Recently (well a few months back) we released the “Sintered” rotor for our motors. It is a replacement magnet/rotor/shaft that has significantly stronger brakes and is much more efficient overall. Operates much cooler and does not suffer from weakening when overheated.



The part number is 5908 and is a direct install into any Velociti motor. I’d venture to say brakes are some 10 times stronger. They are stronger and more consistent then they need to be for racing. I often run with less then %50 brake EPA.



Thank you for your email. If we've missed any of your questions please let us know.

You can find complete information on all Customer Service Return procedures in the Customer Service Section of our website. All Manuals that are currently available are located in the Download Section of our website.



Thanks

Tech Support

Novak Electronics

17032 Armstrong Ave

[Northy]

But then it won't be BRCA legal. We're you the guy at Southport?

G

[Chrislong]

Hi Colin,
I will be running brushless very soon, and so will gain some knowledge on what settings to use. Once I have something which works for me, I'll post them here for you to try too.

When are you racing next? Good to see you again yesterday by-the-way.

To start with, just make sure your brake (and throttle) settings are where they should be on your transmitter.

[phil c]

Iv drove a few brushed cars again today and its amazing how much quiker they stop. If im coming down the straight at full pelt, the car doesnt want to stop at all.

I usually run the front one way roller and diff, so to improve things first of all, i took this out and had perm 4wd with a ball diff. This helped a little.

Iv altered the settings on the speedo (Novak GTB 5.5 to) include 50 % min drag and upped the drag brake and even altered the tx settings so that the punch is right up to max on brakes.

I drove a few other 4wd's with brushed setups and they stop immediately. The brakes do work, but for some reason only at low speeds and it deffo wouldnt lock the wheels up. at full pelt the effect is minimal.

I have heard today that brushless motors dont have proper brakes hence the prob.

Anyone else in the same boat??

Does anyone have any opinions on this. Im going to try a brushed setup in it as a comparison. but thought id get some advice as well.

Thanks

Col.
i run the same speedo and had problems with the brakes also , i sent the speedo back and got it checked, they said it was in spec ! i then tried the 4.5 motor and the brakes are fantastic . (it will lock all 4 wheels at the end of the straight in touring with a spool) def recomend the 4.5 motor;)

[Colinevan]

But then it won't be BRCA legal. We're you the guy at Southport?

G

I am pal...

To be honest its really strange, i always thought that i just drove the car too fast... its only when i had a go on someone else's car that i realised just how bad it really is. I drove the other zx-5 red/white kmc conv and that braked superbly.

Hmm looks like a new motor on the agenda then...

[Colinevan]

Thanks chris. to be honest i had a reasonable day and i didnt brake anything lol. I did wonder on the tx settings , so i had a chat with chris evison and he made a few settings to try. The car was set on max brakes and now the tx brake curve is also set to max. I also adjusted the speedo so that i experimented with the drag brake and the min brake settings. ( Thats when you kept on seeing me with the car on track in between races) They did help a little but i still cant get the car to stop to a standstill from full pelt. As an exapmple if I could reach full speed indoors - it would take at least half the lenght of the straight to stop.

Hi Colin,
I will be running brushless very soon, and so will gain some knowledge on what settings to use. Once I have something which works for me, I'll post them here for you to try too.

When are you racing next? Good to see you again yesterday by-the-way.

To start with, just make sure your brake (and throttle) settings are where they should be on your transmitter.

[Chrislong]

Colin, what you need is an Anchor ;)

[Dunc]

From 02-04-2007, sintered rotors will be BRCA legal.

The following quote is direct from http://www.brca.org:

"9.7 The Rotor: Shaft diameter must be 3.175mm. Only one piece, two pole bonded Neodymium or Ferrite magnetic rotors are permitted until 01.04.07. From 02.04.07, sintered Neodymium or Ferrite rotors are also allowed. Magnet minimum length 23.0 mm, maximum 27.0 mm. Magnet minimum diameter 12.0mm, maximum 15.5mm."

Bring on the obscene amounts of power! :D

[Northy]

They're too fast anyway. Oh well, thanks for pointing that out.

G

[Dunc]

I agree that they're not a practical option for off-road (definitely better suited to TCs), but I'm sure it would be fun to try! :D

[Chrislong]

OK, so what would be the harm in running a sintered rotar in a sensible can - say a 6.5 or a 5.5? IIt would give better heat handling I guess, id like to try it.

[Dunc]

Good point, Chris.

Mr Doughty was discussing this on his site, but before sintered was legalised so the idea didn't really get off the ground.

Edit: Sorry, he was discussing using a non-sintered rotor in a 'sintered can'. Still deemed illegal at the time though.

I'd be interested to hear how you get on.

[Barry Williams]

Have run the 5.5 motors in both mine & my sons cars recently & have same problem, got drag brake set to max & brakes to max but nowhere near as good as a brushed motor.Find that you just carry a lot more speed through the corners now which is good for my son as he can cope with it but i just crash more often!!;) . Changing to LRP system in the near future & hope for more success. Dont get me wrong the novak systems are superb but brake capacity not on a par with brushed set up we use in 4wd.

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I cant understand the problems that you are all having as with mine going down the straight at batley on sunday at full pelt (it felt like the thing was going to take off it was that fast) and putting the brakes on about six feet before the slippy corner at the end of the straight I could coast round the corner nice and slow. I have my drag brake set at 1 and min brake set at 2 (very low).

[Colinevan]

Right i contacted Cml today.

They are aware that motors such as the 5.5 / 6.5 etc all use the older design of rotor. They told me that it is affected by heat and that the brakes are not good. They simply go off with use and too much heat.

As mentioned they do a replacement rotor for a rrp of around £24.99 that updates the rotor to the sintered design. As mentioned this will solve any problems and will also allow the motor to run cooler. The new design has been approved by the brca - however this isnt going to be legalised until april!!!

I have mine on order and with any luck shall have it for trial this weekend at southport.

[Chrislong]

Hi Colin,
The BRCA approval shouldn't effect you unless you enter the indoor finals, but as for the club - it doesn't matter, and the regionals will start after the date.... just fit it, run it, and let us all know how it performs... :)

[Northy]

What can are you putting it in?

I believe the sintered rotor in a 5.5 or even 6.5 can would be too fast for offroad. If we run sintered rotors, it might require going to 7.5 turn cans or even less (or is that more?).

Let us know how yours goes with the sintered rotor please.

G

[Colinevan]

What can are you putting it in?

I believe the sintered rotor in a 5.5 or even 6.5 can would be too fast for offroad. If we run sintered rotors, it might require going to 7.5 turn cans or even less (or is that more?).

Let us know how yours goes with the sintered rotor please.

G

No probs G.

It will be fitted to a 5.5 can, to be honest it is quick, but at southport everyone runs low turn motors lol... I think this weekend indoors peeps were using 9 turns lol :cool:.

Speed is everything ha ha :o

[Northy]

Speed is nothing without grip :(

G

[mark christopher]

5.5 is about 7 turns, i have the nosram 5.5 and it goes like hot snot in a TC dare not run it in a 2wd buggy
i have the 7.5 on its way which is about 12 turn and is what Neil Gragg used at worksop, both are NON sintered and i have had no problems with brakes.
i also have a mamba max 5700 (bout 9 turns) which feels similar to my nosram 5.5
i also have a mamba max 4600 (12 turn) which is really good in the B4, with a smooth broad power band.
the mambas atthe min are not brca aproved (on with it) and they also come with sintered rotors,
nosram is sensored and mambx is not
i prefere the speedo on the mamba as its fully adjustable and updatable via a usb port (you can customize profiles and then save em to pc/laptop)
the biggest thing i have found is gear them higher than you would a brushed as they seem to like to rev more.
ill be a york sunday and have both so if u fancy a nosey come look

[Colinevan]

Mine is the Novak setup the Gtb 5.5 Not the Nosram system like yours, i imagine its motor design is newer than the Novak setup. Hence the differences.

I think Novak are continually improoving the system all the time.. Soon we shall a perfect setup lol...;)

[xx4-nutter]

i run the same speedo and had problems with the brakes also , i sent the speedo back and got it checked, they said it was in spec ! i then tried the 4.5 motor and the brakes are fantastic . (it will lock all 4 wheels at the end of the straight in touring with a spool) def recomend the 4.5 motor;)


hahaha yea VERY FAST AND VERY GOOD BRAKES ....


then again his cars are always very bloody quick lol

[mark christopher]

sure the 4.5 is sintered and not yet brca legal

[phil c]

sure the 4.5 is sintered and not yet brca legal
hi mark the 4.5 novak is not sintered but the 3.5 is , hope this helps