Cougar Laydown

[AmiSMB]

It has been very quiet regarding this so far so I just wondered on peoples thoughts so far regarding this new car as it is now very imminent that we are mid April.

[knighthawk]

No Doughnut's yet on Facebook

[Kevg57]

very quiet on the Laydown front,

[madmulc]

It’s amazing, feels completely different to the KC. Much more drive out of the corners and a lot less body roll. I love my KC but the laydown is on a different level

[AmiSMB]

Madmulc great to hear from someone who had raced theirs. What surface have you used it one and did you have to make many setup changes? Are there any changes that you are considering next time out?

[madmulc]

Madmulc great to hear from someone who had raced theirs. What surface have you used it one and did you have to make many setup changes? Are there any changes that you are considering next time out?

The car is amazing out the box, I have raced it on EOS and Astro going from EOS to Astro all I changed was the rear oil and springs. I also only run two gears in the diff instead of the four it comes with. I am also running the electrics and battery forward. I was amazed at how different the car feels compared to the KC it has a lot more initial response and so much flatter through the bends. I run the car as kit apart from the front under servo weight which I always run.

[daz75]

The car is amazing out the box, I have raced it on EOS and Astro going from EOS to Astro all I changed was the rear oil and springs. I also only run two gears in the diff instead of the four it comes with. I am also running the electrics and battery forward. I was amazed at how different the car feels compared to the KC it has a lot more initial response and so much flatter through the bends. I run the car as kit apart from the front under servo weight which I always run.

What does less gears in the diff do?

[madmulc]

What does less gears in the diff do?

Gives more drive out of the corners, however the gears wear a lot quicker and the diff oil needs changing more frequently

[Kevg57]

madmulc how does it feel so much different to the KC?

Front end geometry is the same, so the handling difference must be down to the L1 rear geometry and the motor pos 4 position, and a bit of CoG difference.

Cant wait to try my KC in pos 4 and L1 rear spec this weekend, finished the swap over on Sunday.

[AmiSMB]

When I looked at a team drivers Cougar Laydown the rear diff is incredibly low. With the rear gearbox being plastic I think it changes the whole rear flex characteristics. It will be interesting to see how ordinary club drivers get on with it compared to the KC.

[lofty2332]

I am getting back into the hobby after a 20 year absence, would I be better getting a Cougar Laydown or KC?

I am very tempted by the Laydown which is currently cheaper than the older car on most modelshop websites. I'm torn between a Laydown, KC or Associated B6.1

[Adam F]

Laydown as its the latest, so residuals will be stronger.. plus its ok on most surfaces from what I have read..

Used KC prices will drop down as a result, so it could make sense as a used purchase... its still a great car..

[Wolvie]

I am getting back into the hobby after a 20 year absence, would I be better getting a Cougar Laydown or KC?

I am very tempted by the Laydown which is currently cheaper than the older car on most modelshop websites. I'm torn between a Laydown, KC or Associated B6.1

B6.1 works great but if slope makes you mad forget it!
My Cougar LD is pre-ordered.

[mark christopher]

I am getting back into the hobby after a 20 year absence, would I be better getting a Cougar Laydown or KC?

I am very tempted by the Laydown which is currently cheaper than the older car on most modelshop websites. I'm torn between a Laydown, KC or Associated B6.1

Fully dependent on budget, the kc is a good car, and will remain a good car. you will also pick up a good second hand one cheaper with options fitted, the ld builds nice looks nice and seems to be easier to drive. I'm keeping my kc along side my ld
Either way you wont be disappointed

[olied]

Saw one at our club night last night. Looks awesome, I’d be tempted if I was in the market for a new buggy

[stormyyyy]

I'm confussed, i have had a laydown on order for the last month, so has it been released/shipped yet as none of the shops seem to have it or is there a release date that anyone knows about as mid april has been and gone.

[Spils77]

I think the release date was ment to be the 17th April but this has now changed to the 26th April? I also have the car pre-ordered and on checking the model shop website this is the date they are expecting there stock delivery. Just got to wait a few more days.

[Wolvie]

I've read on a fb forum it should be next week...

[mark christopher]

I am getting back into the hobby after a 20 year absence, would I be better getting a Cougar Laydown or KC?

I am very tempted by the Laydown which is currently cheaper than the older car on most modelshop websites. I'm torn between a Laydown, KC or Associated B6.1

Wont go wrong with this

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202686

[olied]

Absolutely. That’d be a mega buggy for that money

[matt]

There doesn't seem to many pictures of the laydown car about floating about.

[lofty2332]

Already sold unfortunately

[Al3xis007]

What does less gears in the diff do?

having 2 in stead of 4 internal gears gives you more initial steering, the same affect as going down in diff oil, 2 gear 7k is close to 4 gear 3k

[stormyyyy]

pushed back to mid May

[daz75]

pushed back to mid May

Have they found an issue?

[mark christopher]

just waiting on a part to be completed, there working flat out.

[leeboy44]

When I called yesterday they told me the 27th of this month?

[Ross]

When I called yesterday they told me the 27th of this month?

They told me around two weeks yesterday, it was late afternoon when I asked.

[matt]

So the romours floating around the Web are the delay is regarding the diff,being either the plastic cross pin (in stock on there website) or the outdrive(also in stock on there page). If true very disappointing as the gear diff is a old part of the KR and the alloy gear pins are also avaliable.

[Spils77]

Just received a confirmation email from the model shop I have the car pre-ordered with and they are expecting delivery on the 20th May :cry:

[stormyyyy]

So the romours floating around the Web are the delay is regarding the diff,being either the plastic cross pin (in stock on there website) or the outdrive(also in stock on there page). If true very disappointing as the gear diff is a old part of the KR and the alloy gear pins are also avaliable.

Got told at the weekend by a good source that the diff gears for the kits were made in the wrong material causing excessive wear. i.e manufacturing cock up, Still better they caught it before release.

[matt]

Again a part they have in stock. The gears are from the kf so would say plenty in stock. Disappointing still.

[daz75]

Again a part they have in stock. The gears are from the kf so would say plenty in stock. Disappointing still.

Surely a short delay is better than unhappy customers further down the road

[mark christopher]

Dear Customers,

Thank you for patiently waiting for the release of the new Cougar Laydown. We had hoped that we would be releasing cars around this time. Unfortunately the final part to be manufactured has been unexpectedly rejected by our Quality Control department. We took the difficult decision to get this part 100% correct rather than sending out a slightly substandard product that would not meet our extremely high standards. This means there will be a delay in releasing cars to the general public through our dealer network. We are hoping this delay will be short but could be approx 2-3 weeks.

Please accept our sincere apologies for this delay.

Schumacher Racing.

news610





http://www.racing-cars.com/products.asp?hideall=Y&partno=news610&templateid=18&pagewidth=550

[matt]

That's fine but this car is a parts bin special with very little in the way of new parts and the hold up is with one of the older parts is not a great start.

[Allan1875]

That's fine but this car is a parts bin special with very little in the way of new parts and the hold up is with one of the older parts is not a great start.

Thats actually not accurate.

[matt]

Thats actually not accurate.

What part?

[mark christopher]

So the romours floating around the Web are the delay is regarding the diff,being either the plastic cross pin (in stock on there website) or the outdrive(also in stock on there page). If true very disappointing as the gear diff is a old part of the KR and the alloy gear pins are also avaliable.

i fail to see why you think its bad that a manufacture is not sending out a kit with faulty parts, as you claim its only "romours??" floating round

[knighthawk]

In a way I think this is a good move for Schumacher
Their Customer Service is next to none, full stop
As they said, they took the hard decision to delay its release !!

Just ask yourself Matt, if they'd released the car ( to you ), it failed first or second run, how much bitching would you be doing then

[reelman_fishing]

I'm with Mark Christopher on this one, Why would you want a car with an inferior part that's just crazy. Thumbs up to schumacher for finding the problem before release.

[matt]

Whoa whoa whoa, let's all chill out with my post. Not once did I call this a bad move by them I said it was disappointing. I find it disappointing that this car has been about for a while now and that the team drivers got them a few days after announcement but yet the parts were not ready for general release. The car doesn't use that many new bits and most are available as spare parts apart from (last night at least) gear box top shocks front. Another disappointing aspect was that most found this out through a model shop email rather than schumacher themselves. I was really hoping mine would be for the regional next week as my KC has a bent chassis and didn't want to order one.

[mark christopher]

Whoa whoa whoa, let's all chill out with my post. Not once did I call this a bad move by them I said it was disappointing. I find it disappointing that this car has been about for a while now and that the team drivers got them a few days after announcement but yet the parts were not ready for general release. The car doesn't use that many new bits and most are available as spare parts apart from (last night at least) gear box top shocks front. Another disappointing aspect was that most found this out through a model shop email rather than schumacher themselves. I was really hoping mine would be for the regional next week as my KC has a bent chassis and didn't want to order one.

as i have said your going on rumours not fact by your own admission!


I have an excellent solution for you...... buy a LD one as its will fit your kc! im sure you know its in stock.

[NeilRalph77]

Whether new parts or current parts I imagine Schumacher expect to sell hundreds if not more of these cars I'd be very surprised if they keep that amount of stock in spares, so I'm sure what ever part their having issues with couldn't just be replaced in the hundreds off the shelf.

[matt]

as i have said your going on rumours not fact by your own admission!


I have an excellent solution for you...... buy a LD one as its will fit your kc! im sure you know its in stock.

It's a fact the team drivers got them, 2 of them had them at our 1st reg. It's a fact the car has been around for a while as Yardy said on a podcast they have been testing for some time with it and was at the mkgp. It's a fact the car doesn't use that many new parts. It's a fact that that MB let people know before Schumacher did.
Yes I know it fits and yes have seen it in stock but will not be buying it.

[mark christopher]

It's a fact the team drivers got them, 2 of them had them at our 1st reg. It's a fact the car has been around for a while as Yardy said on a podcast they have been testing for some time with it and was at the mkgp. It's a fact the car doesn't use that many new parts. It's a fact that that MB let people know before Schumacher did.
Yes I know it fits and yes have seen it in stock but will not be buying it.

so what part are you claiming they are waiting for and is in stock?

thats the part your post states to be a rumour, and i quoted your post stating that!

http://www.oople.com/forums/showpost.php?p=998531&postcount=38

i also dont see the issue with there and i quote you "not many new parts" the kc is a very good car, its been refined, not redesigned!

[matt]

so what part are you claiming they are waiting for and is in stock?

thats the part your post states to be a rumour, and i quoted your post stating that!

http://www.oople.com/forums/showpost.php?p=998531&postcount=38

I said the rumour was to around the diff but also said those parts were in stock. I did not say it was the diff.The part I think they are having issues with is the gearbox top shocks front as that is the part that as of yesterday is not in stock.

[tyreman]

I said the rumour was to around the diff but also said those parts were in stock. I did not say it was the diff.The part I think they are having issues with is the gearbox top shocks front as that is the part that as of yesterday is not in stock.

They're not having an issue with the gearbox tops they are just out of stock, Schumachers website is not live stock levels, and is around 24hrs behind.
I had these arrive on Thursday.
https://i.imgur.com/oGAdpBi.jpg?2

[matt]

Right so that's my idea blown apart. Although that does mean they are happy to sell a spare they were not happy to put in the kit:confused: as when I looked yesterday that was the only piece not listed.

[david85williams]

I wouldn't be so desperate to get hold of the new laydown. I've seen a few guys running the car and were really struggling. Some even resulted in putting a KC back end on the car. Seems there's some serious setup work to be done.

Anyway its disappointing to wait longer. Schumacher's customer service has always been excellent.

[mark christopher]

Right so that's my idea blown apart. Although that does mean they are happy to sell a spare they were not happy to put in the kit:confused: as when I looked yesterday that was the only piece not listed.

Again more guess work..

Just let the guys get the part up to quality and release it.

[Ross]

Again more guess work..

Just let the guys get the part up to quality and release it.


That’s the best comment in the whole thread about the issue :thumbsup:

[Al3xis007]

That's fine but this car is a parts bin special with very little in the way of new parts and the hold up is with one of the older parts is not a great start.

Right so you’ll want a kit with a part that’s not up to spec, you won’t know what that part is and it WILL fail. You’ll then blame schumacher...... chill dude

[Al3xis007]

I wouldn't be so desperate to get hold of the new laydown. I've seen a few guys running the car and were really struggling. Some even resulted in putting a KC back end on the car. Seems there's some serious setup work to be done.

Anyway its disappointing to wait longer. Schumacher's customer service has always been excellent.

Everyone is different, I love my KC too, it’s a weapon..but, a few set up changes (a bit more aggressive than the kit setup) and its definitely faster and easier to drive

[matt]

Right so you’ll want a kit with a part that’s not up to spec, you won’t know what that part is and it WILL fail. You’ll then blame schumacher...... chill dude

Again I didn't say that I said it was disappointing especially after all the delays with the xls.

[Kevg57]

I think its a good thing that they pulled the date back, people would shout more if there was a bad part in the kit,

Run my KC in L1 rear end spec last week at motor pos 4 and it felt a lot more driveable after a few set up tweaks on high grip EOS type carpet, not sure I would gain hugely by doing to the LD

[Adam F]

Very few people know how much of a nightmare it is developing a new product.

If just one minor component is missing or wrong, the whole kit has to be held... Just because parts have come come in to the correct condition previously, doesn't mean every batch will be the same...

QC exists to catch exactly this type of issue, so I'd say Schumacher have acted responsibly in being honest about this... yes its a shame, but I'd imagine they are doing everything they can behind the scenes to get these kits out the door...

After all the last thing they want is excess unsalable stock sitting in their warehouse!!

[mark christopher]

I think its a good thing that they pulled the date back, people would shout more if there was a bad part in the kit,

Run my KC in L1 rear end spec last week at motor pos 4 and it felt a lot more driveable after a few set up tweaks on high grip EOS type carpet, not sure I would gain hugely by doing to the LD

thats what i thought, just done oople bury and qualified in the c final 3 legs, with kc ran 10th and 6th, swapped to a previously undriven ld and got a 2nd, just felt so easy to drive consistently.

[cornishboy176]

Any update on release date yet?

[On the roof]

Hopefully not long now 🤞

[Mash Potato]

Last I heard is the 20th as the release date. Anyone know more, is this still the case?

[Spils77]

Yes, the last email i got from the model shop was the 20th May :thumbsup:

[Ross]

I was told last night by Schumacher that it will probably be the tail end of next week.

[Adam F]

I was told last night by Schumacher that it will probably be the tail end of next week.

Nice... :)

[Mash Potato]

I was told last night by Schumacher that it will probably be the tail end of next week.

Any updates, is this still likely?

[Ross]

Any updates, is this still likely?

Your probably better off calling Schumacher and asking.

[Mash Potato]

Your probably better off calling Schumacher and asking.

As of yesterday I was told the new part(s) are with Schumacher. So they need to be checked out. Assuming they pass Q.C then they'll then start packing kits, so fingers crossed the wait is nearly over.

[Wolvie]

Yep, claws crossed!:lol:

[stuey]

The cakes have been served at Schumacher according to their FB page.

[mark christopher]

If your on the fence, can highly recommend one

[stormyyyy]

mb confirmed will be in shop tomorrow

[matt]

There are a few things I'm not to sure with this kit at the mo. Don't like the screws they give you for the pistons and the fact you have to modify the rear wishbones if you want to run the diff in its lowest position.

[mark christopher]

There are a few things I'm not to sure with this kit at the mo. Don't like the screws they give you for the pistons and the fact you have to modify the rear wishbones if you want to run the diff in its lowest position.

Far more secure and less chance of losing a piston off a rod, I use a med loctite (blue) and let it go off and arrowmax multi tool to hold the shaft, fitted them to my l1 when they came out and have been fine, also used by other manutacures.
Only need to remove a very small amount of material, defo no loss in strength.

[matt]

I'm fine with the screw on piston it's the counter sunk screw with no recess in the piston for it. But it's the fact you have to remove it to use low diffs.

[mark christopher]

I'm fine with the screw on piston it's the counter sunk screw with no recess in the piston for it. But it's the fact you have to remove it to use low diffs.

No need for a recess in the piston mine got a good bite to secure them., as said it's a small amount, I'd rather do that and have arms that fit both cars, maybe schumacher will do the mod on further production arms,

Aldi have a good dremel style tool on offer soon, 16 quid 3 year warranty :thumbsup:

Have you built yours yet, or are you just anti schumacher?

[matt]

Ive got a dremel sitting in my toolbox at work it's just bits like this shouldn't need doing on a top line car. Didn't have to do it on the kc and that used arms from a older car to. Didn't have to do it on the 6.1 when running the b64 arms.

[daz75]

Dremmeling things to get them to fit is a bit crap

[mark christopher]

Dremmeling things to get them to fit is a bit crap

They fit fine...... just as said a very small amount of material needs removing in low diff position only. It's only where the drive shaft pin may rub.

[matt]

1 degree of anti squat and low diff and they do rub, no maybe about it.

[matt]

Have you built yours yet, or are you just anti schumacher?

Far from anti Schumacher, I've had most 2wd from the club10 up to the kc, missed out the sv line as wasn't racing at the time after having our 1st child. But I'm also not going to be a fanboy of them and blindly look over faults they have.

[mark christopher]

1 degree of anti squat and low diff and they do rub, no maybe about it.

Well I'm off to prep mine and improve my lap times, I'll leave you to find some thing else wrong :thumbsup:

[matt]

That's all I've found so far:)

[On the roof]

Hopefully be building this weekend then!! Got mine coming from mb not had a shipping email hopefully tomorrow 😁

[matt]

The weight of mine

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/40894201803_f783221dd6.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/25iFtsT)2019-05-16_07-31-13 (https://flic.kr/p/25iFtsT) by matt barton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/30064846@N07/), on Flickr

[Kevg57]

Matt. it is disappointing that they knew about the rubbing of the L1 rear arms in low diff position from the KC rear end mod, which I have done, and all they did to rectify this was to warn people they would have to remove material off the arm because they don't want the expense of modifying the mould tool very slightly. :(:(:(

[matt]

Yes that my feeling to but I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong. Other than the piston looking a bit daft with a counter sunk screw head sticking out of them it's a really nice kit.

[Kevg57]

Yes that my feeling to but I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong. Other than the piston looking a bit daft with a counter sunk screw head sticking out of them it's a really nice kit.

One of the team drivers in our club had terrible trouble with the screws backing out of the shafts in his shocks, make sure the thread is immaculately clean and a dab of thread lock, but on a 2mm thread and amount of threadlock if it engages well is gonna be a bee ach to get out after, think I'd rather the circlips myself....

I would love the gearbox assy though to throw on my KC, but the L1 rear end has made the car drive awesome in pos 4 spec.

[matt]

Yes I degrease mine and left them for a bit to set before filling with oil. The gear box is nice and I may get one to fit to my kc to.

[Kevg57]

Yes I degrease mine and left them for a bit to set before filling with oil. The gear box is nice and I may get one to fit to my kc to.

not gonna release one as an upgrade I already asked them, separate parts you might as well buy the full buggy lol.

[matt]

Yes but one new car I can get away with buying, a few upgrades for a car over time and I'm good with that. Also it doesn't have to be the entire rear end just the gear box.

[Kevg57]

Yes but one new car I can get away with buying, a few upgrades for a car over time and I'm good with that. Also it doesn't have to be the entire rear end just the gear box.

Expensive way to build the gearbox atm, lots of little bits that you need to get, without adding it up fully I recon you'd be looking north of £100 easily.

[matt]

Yeah I think it will be around that but I've got a ball diff already so that offsets it s little as will be a wet car.

[matt]

Also if you want to save some more keep an eye out for a kd gearbox as most of the internals fit the laydown.

[Kevg57]

Also if you want to save some more keep an eye out for a kd gearbox as most of the internals fit the laydown.

Just looked now and lots of the KC internals fit the Laydown but not looked at the screws and got to 135 quid :o

still tempting though.

[matt]

It's doable but it's down to you if you want to spend the money on it.

[Spils77]

Cougar Laydown arrived this morning :thumbsup:
So wish i had booked the day of work so i can start building.

[lynx75]

Cougar Laydown arrived this morning :thumbsup:
So wish i had booked the day of work so i can start building.

share advice please

thanks

[lynx75]

I am waiting for the kit to arrives. In the meantime I am wondering why there is no chance to get sway bars mounted on the rear. I cannot say in the front but at least in the rear.

Any advice please?

thanks

[Al3xis007]

One of the team drivers in our club had terrible trouble with the screws backing out of the shafts in his shocks, make sure the thread is immaculately clean and a dab of thread lock, but on a 2mm thread and amount of threadlock if it engages well is gonna be a bee ach to get out after, think I'd rather the circlips myself.....

When building the car, start with the shock pistons, then they have time for the thread lock to set. apart from that, the car is a really good build

[On the roof]

Mine should be here In The next hour desks cleared ready to build

[matt]

When building the car, start with the shock pistons, then they have time for the thread lock to set. apart from that, the car is a really good build

This is very good advice.

[Ross]

I am waiting for the kit to arrives. In the meantime I am wondering why there is no chance to get sway bars mounted on the rear. I cannot say in the front but at least in the rear.

Any advice please?

thanks


U7658

https://www.rccarshop.co.uk/?keyword=u7658&limitstart=0&option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=0

[mark christopher]

I am waiting for the kit to arrives. In the meantime I am wondering why there is no chance to get sway bars mounted on the rear. I cannot say in the front but at least in the rear.

Any advice please?

thanks

You can fit sway bars to the front and rear.

[stormyyyy]

As a relative newbie can someone tell me what the X brace conversion does handling wise and/or what type of track is it for.

[edf84]

My Cougar Laydown arrived at my home in the morning (in France).
Too late to drive tomorrow with on my regional FFVRC race. I'll ride it quietly in the week to try it next weekend.
In the meantime I will still use my old Cougar SV2 which still does the job well.

https://media.joomeo.com/medium/5cdfc867e2480.jpg (https://public.joomeo.com/files/5cdfc867e2480)

:):thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

As a relative newbie can someone tell me what the X brace conversion does handling wise and/or what type of track is it for.

Attached screen shot from manual. Stiffens chassis flex and five more steering so prob more suited to high grip, but I have seen it used on rubberised cork floor

[stormyyyy]

Attached screen shot from manual. Stiffens chassis flex and five more steering so prob more suited to high grip, but I have seen it used on rubberised cork floor

Cheers, never saw that in the manual, must remember to look through it cover to cover :lol:

[badger5]

I see that Orlowski didn’t run the laydown car in the some of the rounds of the latest EOS, did he go back to the KC for the wet conditions or is there a standup version of the Cougar being tested?

[madmulc]

I see that Orlowski didn’t run the laydown car in the some of the rounds of the latest EOS, did he go back to the KC for the wet conditions or is there a standup version of the Cougar being tested?

He ran the KD in the first couple of rounds

[On the roof]

I'm getting a good amount of binding on the front camber mount with the captive ball joints.. the only way I can stop the binding is having the ball joint on the camber mount loose anyone else have this issue??

[knighthawk]

I'm getting a good amount of binding on the front camber mount with the captive ball joints.. the only way I can stop the binding is having the ball joint on the camber mount loose anyone else have this issue??

Have you used the ball stud washers

[On the roof]

Yeah as sheet shows the arms are OK level with the bulk head any lower than the bulk head they bind?

[Wolvie]

Yeah as sheet shows the arms are OK level with the bulk head any lower than the bulk head they bind?

Check it's the ballstud shims, they're made out of iron so use a magnet.

[Ross]

I'm getting a good amount of binding on the front camber mount with the captive ball joints.. the only way I can stop the binding is having the ball joint on the camber mount loose anyone else have this issue??

Is it the ball joints or the arms?

Ive just built one for a mate. I found the arms are tight around the inner hinge pins, a moulding issue, and the "C" hubs are tight once the clip is fitted.

[Navek668]

I just got a craft knife into the recesses at the bulkhead where the arms fit in, just a little scrape and everything moved freely

[On the roof]

It's definitely the ball joints. as soon as they tighten they bind when they are loose it's all free
Basically if you sit the car down on the table no wheels on
The arms hinge up and down perfect
if the arms go any lower than the hinge pins it binds

I had already cleaned the bulk head out with a knife to fit the arms its not that

I'll finish the build and have another mess with it 👍🏻

[cornishboy176]

Has anyone else noticed the amount of play in the gearbox diff housings when its put together??

[MervHill]

Has anyone else noticed the amount of play in the gearbox diff housings when its put together??

Play where Iain? Can’t say I noticed any excessive play anywhere in mine.

[Spils77]

Yes I have noticed some movement when the differential is fitted into the transmission housing. I have followed the instructions and used one shim on each side of the diff and fitted the bearings into the eccentric housings but once fitted to the transmission housing there is about 1.5 - 2mm of side ways movement.
I have two spare shims of the same size which were in a different pack, I don't know what these are for?

[cornishboy176]

Play where Iain? Can’t say I noticed any excessive play anywhere in mine.

It's only when using the gear diff, it seems the bearings are a bit loose on the gear diff, just put the ball diff in and its fine

[Wolvie]

Yes I have noticed some movement when the differential is fitted into the transmission housing. I have followed the instructions and used one shim on each side of the diff and fitted the bearings into the eccentric housings but once fitted to the transmission housing there is about 1.5 - 2mm of side ways movement.
I have two spare shims of the same size which were in a different pack, I don't know what these are for?

The manual addendum says to fit the 4 shims.

[Spils77]

Thank you Wolvie. I will fit the other two shims to the differential and give it a try.

[andys]

Piccy of a 40mm fan mount I made for mine. 40mm is probably overkill so printed a 30mm mount too - but had this fan spare and it 'just' fits - so why not :)

[mark christopher]

I'm getting a good amount of binding on the front camber mount with the captive ball joints.. the only way I can stop the binding is having the ball joint on the camber mount loose anyone else have this issue??

my guess is you dont have the steel washer on and you have an alloy one, the only way the captive joints bind is the wrong washer or ill fitting one

[mark christopher]

Yes I have noticed some movement when the differential is fitted into the transmission housing. I have followed the instructions and used one shim on each side of the diff and fitted the bearings into the eccentric housings but once fitted to the transmission housing there is about 1.5 - 2mm of side ways movement.
I have two spare shims of the same size which were in a different pack, I don't know what these are for?

team found fitting two between each bearing and diff on each side gave a far better result, pretty sure there is an update in the kits

[On the roof]

my guess is you dont have the steel washer on and you have an alloy one, the only way the captive joints bind is the wrong washer or ill fitting one


It's definitely the right washer
but to be fair the binding is happening below the length of a shock length so it's no real issue if that makes sense

[mark christopher]

It's definitely the right washer
but to be fair the binding is happening below the length of a shock length so it's no real issue if that makes sense

ah ok if your going past the pivot point of the ball that will explain it, it will free up a little during use too

[Spils77]

The two shims either side of the differential worked and took out the excess play, all good. I must admit I did not see the message on the bag as I was to eager to open the packet and complete the transmission.
The build of the car has gone really well but I have had two components where the screws did not show any resistance when being tightened into the plastic and once the screw had reached its limit the screw would just turn. I am really careful not to overstress any component by overtightening but on these two parts the screw would turn quite freely without applying any pressure on the hex driver. Has anyone else had any similar issues?

[matt]

What parts were they?

[On the roof]

I got the front lower wing for the laydown is there a mount for it?


Found the mount now

[Spils77]

What parts were they?

The two parts I had issues with where U7636 which is a small plate which sits behind the rear of the transmission. The one turnbuckle ball joint just would not secure and the other part was U7046 which is just a battery post. Apart from this the build was excellent. Just installing the electrics now :thumbsup:

[Spils77]

Just a quick question. How much of the body shell do you remove to clear the slipper clutch spring? The cut lines on the shell look different to what the manual is instructing. If anyone has a pic of there body shell I can use for guidance that would be appreciated.

[stormyyyy]

Just a quick question. How much of the body shell do you remove to clear the slipper clutch spring? The cut lines on the shell look different to what the manual is instructing. If anyone has a pic of there body shell I can use for guidance that would be appreciated.

Went a bit nuts with mine so i could get to the slipper with the shell on.

https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/aa147/stormyyyy/0/8f3afd77-7239-4af8-8b91-00bd0ce2e9ea-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/stormyyyy/p/8f3afd77-7239-4af8-8b91-00bd0ce2e9ea)

https://beta-static.photobucket.com/images/aa147/stormyyyy/0/f91a1353-1b20-42d3-9288-0c1dd619bb65-original.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds (https://beta.photobucket.com/u/stormyyyy/p/f91a1353-1b20-42d3-9288-0c1dd619bb65)

[mark christopher]

the body as of yet does not have cut lines for the ld, its the same body as the kc

personally i have cut nothing for the dlipper area and have zero rub marks, the body is one and off with velcro so slipper on mine is set then body fitted.

[Spils77]

Thanks for the pictures and the advice regarding the body shell. I was getting a bit confused with the cut lines not in sync with the manual.
One last question, what gear ratio would you recommend using a 8.5t motor and the kit spur gear? I currently have a 22t pinion fitted.

[stormyyyy]

Thanks for the pictures and the advice regarding the body shell. I was getting a bit confused with the cut lines not in sync with the manual.
One last question, what gear ratio would you recommend using a 8.5t motor and the kit spur gear? I currently have a 22t pinion fitted.

I'm usually 21 or 22 pinion on kit spur and 7.5t motor. just depends what acceleration/top end you want. Also effects temps and track type will play apart. I would say you are in the right area.

[adey]

I have just noticed that the diff height eccentric bearing housing in my car is actually moving up and down and left too right in the gearbox on my car. Only on one side but there is movement. I checked all my gearbox bolts were tight and there was nothing in terms of excess mould material causing it and there isn't. I am concerned because movement there means the mesh between the diff and the idler won't be true and consistent. Anyone experienced this ?

[mark christopher]

I have just noticed that the diff height eccentric bearing housing in my car is actually moving up and down and left too right in the gearbox on my car. Only on one side but there is movement. I checked all my gearbox bolts were tight and there was nothing in terms of excess mould material causing it and there isn't. I am concerned because movement there means the mesh between the diff and the idler won't be true and consistent. Anyone experienced this ?

you need to fit the two shims between the bearing and diff ( two per side) i think it says on the ladle on the bag with the shims in it

[adey]

I have done so. I am not referring to movement there. The issue is the diff bearing housing that is used to adjust the diff height is not a tight fit in the gearbox. It looks like a moulding issue.

[stormyyyy]

I have done so. I am not referring to movement there. The issue is the diff bearing housing that is used to adjust the diff height is not a tight fit in the gearbox. It looks like a moulding issue.

try it with the other eccentrics to see if you have the same problem. might give you some idea to which part is not right

[mark christopher]

I have done so. I am not referring to movement there. The issue is the diff bearing housing that is used to adjust the diff height is not a tight fit in the gearbox. It looks like a moulding issue.

the team found the same issue, thats why the update and extra shims are provided to be fitted between the bearing and diff, it pushes the bearings into the height adjusters into the casings., on mine it fixed it and others i have seen. its the movment your describing.

(step 29 2 shims each side of diff not the 1 each side as manual)

[cornishboy176]

I also noticed movement with the lowest diff setting, put the middle ones in and they seem fine

[adey]

Tried it with the other eccentrics and it's still the same. It's much worse on one side. You can actually turn the eccentric a little. That's how much movement there is. As I said, one side is moving but only slightly but the other is considerable. It can only really be a moulding issue really. I will add that I have been racing for many many years now and I have built and raced many cars at a respectable level so I can assure you it's not a newbie mistake or build error.

[stormyyyy]

faulty gearbox mould or wrong eccentrics then. either way i guess its a replacement kit or parts required.


edit - as a thought have you tried it with the 2nd diff top section (if there is 1 i.e. rear shock parts bag), just to see if it is any better and narrow down the faulty bit.

[BlobbyDavro]

Hi folks, new here.

I've built two Laydowns now. I eliminated the slop between the eccentrics and gear housing using using a layer of cellotape around the eccentric, actually it took two layers to make it rock solid but we're still talking small fractions of a mm, depending on how thin your cellotape is.

Overall the car builds very well and doesn't have many foibles to problem solve. I'm pleased with the quality of it overall having not built a Schumacher before.


On another topic, dang it has a lot of chassis flex (intentionally), it surprised me, although I can see how nice and even the flex is throughout the chassis I may look to try the X-brace. I haven't run the car yet with the standard flex yet so can't comment.

I did notice how well the car was handling that flat landing at Arena33 last weekend, I know in the earlier rounds it was the KD we were seeing, up to leg 2 final in Michael's case. How relevant chassis flex and S2 towers (G10 let's be honest) are to that I don't know.

[cornishboy176]

Sellotape!

Cant see that it is going to solve the problem long term tho

[Spils77]

Just been looking at all the speed secret parts on offer to upgrade the standard Laydown kit. The alloy parts do look good, which speed secret parts are the most beneficial?

[Ross]

Are the Ali hubs and carriers a must on the laydown, or just a nice to have ?

Thanks

[mark christopher]

Just been looking at all the speed secret parts on offer to upgrade the standard Laydown kit. The alloy parts do look good, which speed secret parts are the most beneficial?

Are the Ali hubs and carriers a must on the laydown, or just a nice to have ?

Thanks

defiantly the caster blocks are worth adding. low front wing mount is a nice tuning option too.

[matt]

I would also say the alloy ctr is worth it as broken a few of the plastic ones over time.

[Ross]

defiantly the caster blocks are worth adding. low front wing mount is a nice tuning option too.

I would also say the alloy ctr is worth it as broken a few of the plastic ones over time.

Thanks guys :D

[Spils77]

Thank you for the info guys, very much appriciated. I think i will see how the car performs and if a part does break and there is an option to upgrade to an alloy equivalent, then i will probably fit the alloy option.

[adey]

A quick update here on the gearbox issue I posted on here. I contacted Schumacher and explained the issue and sent them a small video clip of the problem. The r and d guys at Schumacher have seen the clip and sent out some replacement parts to try to resolve the issue. As previously stated that the play in my gearbox was more than just a little and the person I spoke to agreed that it wasn't right.
In my view Schumacher listened to what I had to say, took the issue seriously and have tried to rectify it. At the moment I can't really as for more than that. Thanks Schumacher.

[adey]

Further update. Just tried the diff eccentrics off the cougar KC. They appear to be a harder plastic so I thought I would try them. They fit perfectly and eliminate all play and have sorted the problem. I'll have to let Schumacher know I have sorted it and send the parts back. Happy days

[androo]

You can’t beat Schumacher for their customer service

[reelman_fishing]

Schumachers customer service as always been second to none.

[Ross]

Further update. Just tried the diff eccentrics off the cougar KC. They appear to be a harder plastic so I thought I would try them. They fit perfectly and eliminate all play and have sorted the problem. I'll have to let Schumacher know I have sorted it and send the parts back. Happy days

Nice one :D

Ive just finished building a second one and noticed the play. Once the top was screwed down it was minimal A small amount of tape :woot: on top of the eccentric and it was fixed.

I think I'll be buying the KC ones :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[lynx75]

Nice one :D

Ive just finished building a second one and noticed the play. Once the top was screwed down it was minimal A small amount of tape :woot: on top of the eccentric and it was fixed.

I think I'll be buying the KC ones :thumbsup::thumbsup:

At which page of the manual are you are referring to please?

[AmiSMB]

You will find the eccentrics in the manual in Step 29 on page 18. The tape would have to be added to the eccentrics when you do step 32 on page 20. HTH

[Ross]

At which page of the manual are you are referring to please?

You will find the eccentrics in the manual in Step 29 on page 18. The tape would have to be added to the eccentrics when you do step 32 on page 20. HTH

Hi,
As above for the step number.

It’s not as bad as it sounds. I cut a small piece of electrical tape around 4/5mm wide and the length of the top half of the eccentric. Try 1 piece first, fit the shock mount, see if the movement has gone. Repeat if required.

I also fitted all 3 small shims between the diff outdrive and the diff case.

[adey]

To be fair I think mine was just one of those things. I had a small amount of movement on the one side but a considerable amount on the other. Schumacher agreed it was too much movement and acted appropriately to sort my issue. I managed to sort it with KC parts and have notified Schumacher. As before stated by others, their customer service is as good as it gets.

[gromit]

ABCD

[daz75]

Sounds like they should have delayed it's release longer :D

[Adam F]

What a load of rubbish.. how do you know what tolerance is on the drawing for either part?!!

[BlobbyDavro]

The eccentrics for the Laydown are the same part as for the KC, U7068, for clarity's sake.


Shimming and eliminating play are a normal part of car prep. I shim the steering and hub carriers on the cougar, the diffs have shims in them..etc.


If the eccentrics were a press-fit into the gearbox some would come out too tight (unavoidable tolerance differences in manufacturing injection moulded parts?). It took all of about 2 mins to eliminate the movement on mine. Not a big deal. I'd rather shim and pack them so there's no rubbing to cause wear and develop slop. To get that type of fit without taking that step may not be achievable without machined parts, and even then tolerances exist in manufacturing as tools wear etc.

[Robocop]

So been reading all this but does not bother me as the gears are cut to a bigger tooth than a Yokomo,so to me less critical....
Besides does not seem to slow the people like orlowski,Neumann,Yardy so what's the problem....

[AmiSMB]

So been reading all this but does not bother me as the gears are cut to a bigger tooth than a Yokomo,so to me less critical....
Besides does not seem to slow the people like orlowski,Neumann,Yardy so what's the problem....

I think you might have got the wrong end of the stick with what has been written about here. The LD was delayed originally with an issue in the diff area but this was rectified before the production run was finally shipped.

The most recent issue spoken about on here is not with gears and number of teeth but the plastic eccentric diff holders which hold the diff in either high, medium or low positions. It would seem that in the current production some customer are experiencing an issue where these plastics have shrunk (this happens with plastic mouldings) more than the original KC production run and therefore have more movement or slop than expected from a new part.

All I would say is that if you are not happy with the parts that come in the LD kit then speak directly to Schumacher who will be able to sort the problem out.

[Robocop]

No my car is perfect

[daz75]

So been reading all this but does not bother me as the gears are cut to a bigger tooth than a Yokomo,so to me less critical....
Besides does not seem to slow the people like orlowski,Neumann,Yardy so what's the problem....

Those guys don't really count. They could drive a mardave meteor faster than most of us could drive this car. Noobs like me who can't setup a car for toffee get put off with stuff like this and having to shave parts of wishbones etc. And let's face it, Schumachers market is 99% club racers not world championship contenders

[lynx75]

Those guys don't really count. They could drive a mardave meteor faster than most of us could drive this car. Noobs like me who can't setup a car for toffee get put off with stuff like this and having to shave parts of wishbones etc. And let's face it, Schumachers market is 99% club racers not world championship contenders

I am waiting the hobby shop to send me the laydown, in the meantime I am reading several complaints and issues during the build process in the rear end area. Not sure if its better to cancel my order and go with Associated or XRAY instead of this Schumacher kit.

[Ross]

I am waiting the hobby shop to send me the laydown, in the meantime I am reading several complaints and issues during the build process in the rear end area. Not sure if its better to cancel my order and go with Associated or XRAY instead of this Schumacher kit.

The only issue I had were the eccentrics, that was cured with a small strip of tape. To be honest, it may not have even been needed, it was only a small amount of play.

Putting all the washers on the diff out drive as per the bag instructions made the biggest difference.

[Typpo]

Apart from weight reduction, do the new lower transmission housings (U7868 & U7869) for the LD Stock Spec offer any other advantages over the standard versions (U7617 & U7618)?

[danDanEFC]

Don’t think so mate

[Typpo]

Don’t think so mate

Thank you.

[gromit]

After quite a lot of time since the Schumacher LD was released and getting to know the car and learn more about setting up the car. My comments at the point of release regarding the fit and function of the differential were totally unfounded and regreted, as a vast number of hours driving by top drivers and the hundreds of club drivers including myself across the world has proved.

For myself, I have not had a single failure of any part, and have had numerous racing successes which I put down to the flexibility of the LD being able to work on high, low grip and wet tracks, with out having to resort to a carpet / dirt version of the LD as with other makes.

Time driving the LD has been a great and I look forward to the future for more fun and success.