Long spikes only for indoors ? ? ?

[dayxwalker]

What do you guys think of only allowing long spike tyres for indoors on club nights ? Reason is the expence of mini pins and spikes ! The long spikes work ok just not as good perhaps as pin or spikes ? I mean chris p does ok with them ?
I know we don't want to start running a stock class or anything but since it's just club night then one restriction is not to bad ?
If new members came they could use what they like until they need new ones ?

Anyway it's just an idea ?

[mole2k]

We run yellow compound full spikes indoors on polished wood. I've done comparisons and with my driving the minipins are worth about another 1-2 laps around a small hall (11ish sec laps).

They run ok and last forever we would get 10+ nights from a set. It would be worth giving it a go and see how they go, if everybodys on the same tyre the less performance isnt an issue and at least on our floor they still grip enough to make the cars raceable.

[rowanp25]

full spikes are an ok all round indoor tire. they're rarely the best tire for any given track but do last a long time and are consistent even when the spikes are just marks on the tire. i found them consistent when i raced on multi surface tracks and provided enough grip for both 2 and 4wd. i do have a feeling that they can leave marks though from memory so might be worth checking before the janitor starts complaining of the marks:thumbsup:

[N7ELA]

Mini spikes are better than full spikes at jarrow. Only reason people use full spikes is they last longer. You get about 4 good weeks from mini spikes and about 6-8 on fulls. After you've ran them in, 2 weeks...

Ban Full spikes....

[dayxwalker]

So
Advantages are - cheap , consitant on multi surface , last twice or more than pin or spike

Disadvantages - Lower grip , run in time (maybe a run on Tarmac will speed this up)

Have I missed anything ?

If we are going to have a regional are the club then we can have say 4 weeks before with no restrictions so we can set up the car for pins or spikes ?

Anyone got any good reasons not to do this ?

Would a pm vote be an idea if no one has any good reason not to ?

[Rebelrc]

Where we race at Faversham club , indoors on polished wood yellow Full-spikes are the only way to go (worn down just past half way)
they have run fullspikes for nearly 30 years in this way with about 60 drivers a night:thumbsup:
if the spikes are too long and not bedded correctly there rubbish:cry:
the mini spikes work but generate less grip and lack sidebite but are perfect for carpet

but every hall is different, :)

[turbo_brick]

Why change it, all I do is just use part worn tyres from regionals etc, I wouldn't specifically go and buy tyres just for Jarrow.

You also don't know what the new hall will be like.

Peter

[mole2k]

Quite strangely my 501 seems to work well with brand new spikes, i've no idea why no other cars do. Normally you would need to have about 4-5 runs runs to get the tops worn off the full spikes and get them gripping. A few doughnuts in the carpark works either but im far to cheap to do that :D.

I've ran fullspikes and been competitive for up to about 15 weeks although I tend to be a lot easier on tyres than a lot of people as I dont slide the car about as much. Normally I would put a new set on for each league we run (10 nights).

Minipins are nicer to drive with, feel smoother and are faster but I've only ever found you can get 3 nights out of them at then maybe another one at a push. The full spikes as they wear alot longer you can push and run on old tyres for a lot longer.

If cost isnt an issue I would go with mini's everytime but I ran indoors last year at 35 meetings on 3 sets of full spikes. I would of needed 8~10 sets of minipins to do the same amount of racing. It does really need to be limited if your gonna run them though because i've found myself able to go a lap or so quicker due to the higher cornering speeds achievable from the minipins. As somebody who runs to a very tight budget fullspikes are a life saver, I couldnt afford to run minipins.

[N7ELA]

So
Advantages are - cheap , consitant on multi surface , last twice or more than pin or spike

Disadvantages - Lower grip , run in time (maybe a run on Tarmac will speed this up)

Have I missed anything ?

If we are going to have a regional are the club then we can have say 4 weeks before with no restrictions so we can set up the car for pins or spikes ?

Anyone got any good reasons not to do this ?

Would a pm vote be an idea if no one has any good reason not to ?

I dont understand what advantage there is to everyone running the same tyre...???

[discostu]

level playing feild

[dayxwalker]

When I put advantages/disadvantages it was ment as pro's and cons to putting a rule in so we have to use them !

Here's me saying this and I have a brand new set of mini spikes on my pred LOL

Pete
Why not change ?

As for the new floor we can see what happens then

[dayxwalker]

level playing feild

Good point !

Then it's down to setup , car type , motor choice

[turbo_brick]

Pete
Why not change ?

As for the new floor we can see what happens then

Why do I want to buy a set of tyres that can only be used one place, if you haven't noticed lately I haven't even had chance to race a car properly and get a full night's racing in, normally get no practice, sometimes miss the first round etc.

Peter

PS New rules that you want to implement normally go to the committee first, not an online poll.

[N7ELA]

Ah right. In that case we should just all buy exactly the same touring cars and run the same tyres with the same cells, same motor speedo combo around a flat oval track. But wot would happen when someone bought an expensive servo which had faster steering? We'd have to make everyone buy the same servo...

If everyone runs the same tyres then what happens if driver A is onto his 8th week and driver B is onto his 3rd??? Doesn't driver B have a clear advantage...???

Or do we have to all buy tyres at the same time....??? What if driver A misses 2 weeks racing, driver B does not and by the 8th week driver A has a clear advantage....

Personally I hate full spikes. They make the car sluggish on acceleration, slide on carpet, everything runs hotter and they make you use more power. Oh and your car sounds like a tracktor...


:(

[chris68nufc]

Ban full spikes!! I personally think they give far more grip at Jarrow than any other tyres. Chris Ps car is on rails at Jarrow. Ive got some but they are too new. I might try them next week to see what happens just as an experiment, but i think ban them too!!

[N7ELA]

Ban full spikes!! I personally think they give far more grip at Jarrow than any other tyres. Chris Ps car is on rails at Jarrow. Ive got some but they are too new. I might try them next week to see what happens just as an experiment, but i think ban them too!!

Totally disagree. I ran full spikes and took them off due to mini spikes having more grip... Chrissy P's car is on rails as its a tamiya and they are mint at Jarrow... Ok everywhere else and pants at worksop...

[dayxwalker]

The online poll was just a suggestion to gauge peoples opinion that's all. Ultimately it's the commitee thing but without info on what people want then how can the comitee make a decision ?
Surely it's a topic worth talking about !

I hate touring cars and stock classes ! So boring !

It's just a suggestion to bring the cost down a bit at club level

As for chris p car I have watched it and it does not handle that well I think it's more the driver that makes it quick.

[chris68nufc]

Haha! quality. Chris is so in the zone at Jarrow. Ask him who is currently the best driver at Jarrow who still attends? Me. Its official!

[dayxwalker]

hope this doesn't turn into who's the best driver thread !

[chris68nufc]

I was just messing. Chris P is awesome at Jarrow with his Tam. Not sure how we can stop him apart from unleashing Shunter on him! Hes done most of us so how come Chris ges away!!

[N7ELA]

Not wanting to be nasty or big headed but 2 months ago I was beating chrissy p with my tamiya and James was always ahead of everyone and he always ran worn mini spikes...

Full spikes are ametures tyres. Tim I think you should bin the Pred and get a BJ4... Do well and you might get asked to join Team BJ4...

[pugs]

even on slippy floor mini spikes or mini pins will always be the quicker tyre,(ask the top guys;)) as the car can react quicker and if you run even with a small amount of carpet they will be a lot quicker once you have mastered how to drive with them (especially pins), my point to tim would be learn to drive on them cos in the long run you will be quicker which is very useful for regionals etc......:thumbsup:.

[dayxwalker]

I have only ever tried full spikes on my pred twice and mini spikes on the b4. Not tried pins at all. I still need to adjust my driving to 4wd as I have only ran twice with one !
I am giving the pred a chance as it's looking stunning now it's finished ! Been tearing up the carpet in the front room tonight with my 4.5 ! Have to say I did not expect it to be so smooth when needed.
It will need some work to setup as it's converted to stick lipos now

[N7ELA]

even on slippy floor mini spikes or mini pins will always be the quicker tyre,(ask the top guys;)) as the car can react quicker and if you run even with a small amount of carpet they will be a lot quicker once you have mastered how to drive with them (especially pins), my point to tim would be learn to drive on them cos in the long run you will be quicker which is very useful for regionals etc......:thumbsup:.

A very good tip from an experienced driver...

[big air]

Me thinks its all about the thumbs:woot:
A buggy that might be set up well may be mint for one driver and not the next:p
im in TC mode at the minute and need to calm down a tad,
and by the way my mini spykes are neary gone after 3 min first stint 3 min second 2 min third and a full 5 min final:woot:

driving it like i stole it:wub just need to calm down a bit as ive been told:p

[dayxwalker]

Me thinks its all about the thumbs:woot:
A buggy that might be set up well may be mint for one driver and not the next:p
im in TC mode at the minute and need to calm down a tad,
and by the way my mini spykes are neary gone after 3 min first stint 3 min second 2 min third and a full 5 min final:woot:

driving it like i stole it:wub just need to calm down a bit as ive been told:p

This is my point about not lasting long ! Maybe on 2wd they don't get the hammer that they do on 4wd

[chris68nufc]

driving it like i stole it:wub just need to calm down a bit as ive been told:p

Too right. Your car was very quick on Tuesday but as we all know a fast car isnt always the quickest car!!

You need to try and smoooooth it out a bit and get out of the Snoring car stylee!
No wonder you were thermaling.

[turbo_brick]

This is my point about not lasting long ! Maybe on 2wd they don't get the hammer that they do on 4wd

I've got a set of pins on my car, that have done a full day at worksop, about 6, 5min heats at nrx and 2 or 3 club nights, I bought those tyres for a worksop round and still using them now, when they're officially dead, I've got at least 2 or 3 other part worn sets from regionals this year.

I think a lot comes down to driving style

Peter

[N7ELA]

Getting back to the point, what good will come out of running the same tyres...???

[dayxwalker]

Cost is the only reason to do it !

Anyway it does not matter just an idea to save cash

[Shifta]

I've got a set of pins on my car, that have done a full day at worksop, about 6, 5min heats at nrx and 2 or 3 club nights, I bought those tyres for a worksop round and still using them now, when they're officially dead, I've got at least 2 or 3 other part worn sets from regionals this year.

I think a lot comes down to driving style

Peter
Do pins work on the astro like Peter?

[turbo_brick]

as long as it's dry they work haven't tried the track in the wet yet.

[chris68nufc]

Get to work Pete

[turbo_brick]

chris i'm at work. Mobile internet is a great invention.

[baD]

chris i'm at work. Mobile internet is a great invention.

be afraid, be very very afraid, of drivers using mobile internet ! ! :woot:

[N7ELA]

Cost is the only reason to do it !

Anyway it does not matter just an idea to save cash

Still dont understand.... If full spikes last longer and give more grip then why are you wanting to get people who run mini spikes to change to fulls...??? Surely the mini spike drivers will be at a disadvantage...?

[dayxwalker]

Mini spikes grip better than full spikes don't they ? Or everyone would be using fulls ! That's why I was on about changing to all using fulls

Like I said it's just an idea worth talking about

[turbo_brick]

The only other thing to consider is some cars don't particulary(sp) like certain tyres, I found preds aren't too keen on minipins, where as my x-5 feels better on pins than minispikes.

In my opinion we should leave it open, as I personally don't see why it should be restricted.

Peter

[jc79]

Haha! quality. Chris is so in the zone at Jarrow. Ask him who is currently the best driver at Jarrow who still attends? Me. Its official!


Think ill pop back for one week just to make it official:p

[jc79]

The online poll was just a suggestion to gauge peoples opinion that's all. Ultimately it's the commitee thing but without info on what people want then how can the comitee make a decision ?
Surely it's a topic worth talking about !

I hate touring cars and stock classes ! So boring !

It's just a suggestion to bring the cost down a bit at club level

As for chris p car I have watched it and it does not handle that well I think it's more the driver that makes it quick.


just wondering if ill should buy a touring car for the next time ill be back as too many rules. "run what u got in ur pit box and leave the real comp for outdoors as thats were u should spend the money on tyre as thats were it counts":thumbsup:

[N7ELA]

Who is this JC79....???

Must be a new lad eh....

[chrispattinson]

Yes, haway back JC ..... free week for new members!

Ive tried all the tyres mentioned here.

Conclusion -

Fastest tyre - minispike or full spike
Cheapest tyre - Full spike (the ones Im running are were bought around June 08, and Im still running them).

Good discussion though.

Some other observations.......... I dont think Im the quickest club member round the track. I think we all no who that is ................. that would be the man on TQ that week... whether it be me, Chris Green, James, CS, Neil, Pete, Jeff, Pack..... errr, no never Pack.

My car does handle well, and dont appreciate the dissing of it on an open forum, as I'd like to think I know a thing or two about setting a car up, Ive read enough on it that CS thinks Im a geek with my file full of setups and books. If anyone thinks it is handling badly, I would appreciate their input so I can go a bit quicker. I think it's the best 4wd available (well maybe the 511X is now), . My car is quick on other surfaces, Ive only ever went 1st in round in outdoor regionals with the 501X, and it does go round worksop very well on pins.

My advice would be to leave the tyre rules alone. The cheapest way I find to race is on full spikes, and have mini spikes with me in my box incase I need them (quick changes of direction, no accelerating out of slippy hairpins etc.) - but using them involves spending money, which I know you lot think I dont like to do. :lol:

Think I might do 2WD on Tuesday after this.

[chrispattinson]

In fact ..... this has prompted a double post.............
Can I just ask how my car is not set up well? :thumbsdown:

It's setup on a Hudy set up station, screwed together properly (hence I can tend to get away with a few things other cars dont survive? Its strung up to find the best balance for weight distributions, and Im working on getting it put on the CAD machines here at work so I can really see how the geometry and roll centre move during cornering?

[dayxwalker]

Wow you are defensive when it comes to your car !

[chris68nufc]

I agree with Tim. I think your car is setup really bad too.
Does that mean with a car setup properly you would go even beter CP?

Better god damn leave it alone then. At least its a Chris thats in the front at Jarrow!!:thumbsup:

[chrispattinson]

Wow you are defensive when it comes to your car !

Sorry Tim, it was a bad day at work! Only thing is, I can't see what I can do to get more speed out of it?

[dayxwalker]

No probs ! I was trying to pay you a compliment
I was just saying that I did not agree that it was the car that is on rails and it was more the way it is driven

[Dalla]

Hey Chris,

I know what you can do to make it faster............

Swap it for a BJ4 :p

[chrispattinson]

No probs ! I was trying to pay you a compliment
I was just saying that I did not agree that it was the car that is on rails and it was more the way it is driven

Cheers Tim, was a case of me reading the thread to fast at work. Sorry again.

[chrispattinson]

Hey Chris,

I know what you can do to make it faster............

Swap it for a BJ4 :p

BJ4 is a fast car. But learning how to set another car up would be a nightmare.

[cmgreen]

To be fair CP has his car set up well, from my personal view i would maintain it a bit more shock oil change 2-3 weeks and diff rebuilds do make a big difference!

The only other way would be 511x YOU KNOW YOU WANT ONE!! Get your name down at www.iwanta511x.com (http://www.iwanta511x.com)

:thumbsup:

[pugs]

stella models has them in stock chris p........ummmmmm so does jr-rc.

[N7ELA]

Chris your car is set up well now. Especially as its my set-up...

[chrispattinson]

Chris your car is set up well now. Especially as its my set-up...


It's been tweaked a bit though!

[chrispattinson]

stella models has them in stock chris p........ummmmmm so does jr-rc.


I did have a look last night, £350.

I've decided to stick with the 501x. The lad that has a 511 in the Tamiya thread is saying its a bit more lively, and has more grip. I like the fact the 501x isnt that lively, is easy to drive, and Ive got enough grip out of it as it is.

That could all change though........... :cool:

[chrispattinson]

that would be the man on TQ that week... whether it be me, Chris Green, James, CS, Neil, Pete, Jeff, Pack..... errr, no never Pack.


Never say never.
Well done Mr. Pack taking TQ and winning.

[nobby]

Think ill pop back for one week just to make it official:p
i think you'll find that the quickest driver at the club would be the one that wins the club championship & walks away with the club shield.

I'LL DROP IT OFF FOR YOU GUYS TO FIGHT FOR IT:p
(SHOULD BE A NEW WINNER AS I'M NOT RACING ANYMORE):lol:

[N7ELA]

Might as well just give it to me chris as I'll be claiming it after our next championship...

[chris68nufc]

Listen here Neil. It will be won for the team.Right??

[nobby]

Listen here Neil. It will be won for the team.Right??
thats the only way you will be able to make a claim to it chris if you claim it as part of a team:p

[chris68nufc]

Well im currently the best driver that attends the club. I finished 2nd in the club championship last time i had the BJ4!! You finished 1st but you dont race, so im THE BEST:thumbsup:

[dayxwalker]

When's the next club championship ? Need to hone my skills for it !

[chris68nufc]

Whenever anybody organises it?? Could be after the Easter Break?

[turbo_brick]

Whenever anybody organises it?? Could be after the Easter Break?

Might not be either :p

If someone wants to organise it, keep everything updated, I don't mind setting it up. After easter I'll be concentrating on racing not running meetings so it'll be down to someone else to organise.

Peter

[dpackster1980]

The only time full spikes are better is when the track is dusty.

If we all ran full spikes and got the cars setup great then fine. Then since you've been running full spike all the time you turn up at a regional using the same setup the car is s**t so you'll be chasing a good setup all day instead of trying to put good times in and all because you're running tyres that you hardy ran all season because you're not allowed to at your club.:thumbdown:

It should be up to the driver what they put on there car, but I understand where everyone is coming from but it wouldn't work.

I just run what I can afford at the time, no doubt once these mini spikes are dead then I'll be using old faithfuls (worny full spikeas.).

But Neil is right mini spikes are much better. :thumbsup:

[chrispattinson]

The only time full spikes are better is when the track is dusty.

Just follow my car round then, it usually makes the track dusty when the bits of mud are falling off it!

[dpackster1980]

If last seasons regionals are to go by then everyones car will laying the mud down.