Driving at regionals

[cmgreen]

Guys, since i started racing again this year, i have noticed that know one understands what to do in qualifying. What i mean is, we are not accually racing each other, just against time. So when someone comes up behind you and passes you, you dont lose any position. Its quicker to let the faster person go through than hold them up.

I had this on sunday. Some one in the race heat as me, said, i as was comming to pass them, "are you lapping" i said "dunno, let me through next corner, it will be quicker", "no i will lose position". At that point i just barged my way through.

But my point is he didnt know what to do and didnt understand the logic behind it.

I later explained, but didnt believe me.

I think it would be benifical to announce this at every regional/competition.

[jim76]

i agree. but most drivers won't let people through unless they are a full lap ahead because if the guy behind passes them and finishes a few seconds ahead, undoing the stagger, then they would drop a place under round by round qualifying.

they also fail to realise that it is MUCH easier (and usually quicker) to chase a faster guy and try and hang onto him for a few laps than have him inches off your rear wheels for the whole race!

[bigred5765]

agreed,
if you set of 1-2 seconds apart, and you catch them your already in front of them on the computer, qualifying is about your time on the PC not were you are in that heat, what counts is were you are at the end of that round, its much quicker to let them go,as one crash can cost you 3-5 seconds with a good marshal , and god nos were with a slow one,
for example if you won your heat in heat 1 with a 12 lap in 301
and in heat 12 the last person in the heat came last with a 13 325 he is still in front of you,
so heat position matters not a jut
let the faster cars go

[Northy]

Worsley actually announces in drivers briefing at each National that the racing doesn't start until about 4pm (finals). Maybe we need to announce at regionals too? :confused:

Also at nats we have a ref on the rostrum with a pc who can see who is where, and has in the past helped called cars through if they are on a good time.

G

[bigred5765]

sounds like a good idea northy

[loose]

From a novices point of view do they try put you in with similar standard racers in qualifying. Just thinking that the slower drivers have the right to focus on their own laps too, and if they're having to get out of the way every minute to let someone pass then they're adding time onto their own laps, and wouldn't that possibly knock them down in their own final average?

Not saying that I think it should be up to the faster guys to get past without help, not sayinf that at all, in fact I probably agree with what your saying, just putting the other side and enquiring as to whether there's any pre-grading to ensure you dont get first timers in the same heat as Johnny 'the bullet' fastpants.

;)

[jim76]

yes, the heats are usually of similar standard drivers

[Spencer Mulcahy]

From a novices point of view do they try put you in with similar standard racers in qualifying. Just thinking that the slower drivers have the right to focus on their own laps too, and if they're having to get out of the way every minute to let someone pass then they're adding time onto their own laps, and wouldn't that possibly knock them down in their own final average?

Not saying that I think it should be up to the faster guys to get past without help, not sayinf that at all, in fact I probably agree with what your saying, just putting the other side and enquiring as to whether there's any pre-grading to ensure you dont get first timers in the same heat as Johnny 'the bullet' fastpants.

;)

I want to chang my name to Johnny 'the bullet' fastpants what a cool name:)

[Chrislong]

This is one of those subjects that some of us who do understand it, take it for granted that everyone else does too.

Its also one of those subjects that some who understand it, forget all about it once on the track.

We could do with a proper written up "How it works" info page, one which is locked and sticky for all to read and refer to when anyone fails to spot it.


Personally, I like the staggered start. One thing I have always wondered, if a lap is 20 seconds and there are 10 cars, can we stagger the cars so car no.1 is almost completing a lap. 2 second stagger? Might not be possible though, just one of my random thoughts for the day.

[ashleyb4]

But letting a faster person through isnt much of a disadvantage if done properly.

A

[mattym0310]

hi, i agree with everyone on this, as it has happened to me from both sides.
it doesnt take much time to just go slightly wide or just move out of the way for a faster car. even if you believe your faster, im sure they will return the favour if you catch back up and are then the faster car.

it just helps so much. and saves stupid little arguments aswell, when people are shouting at each other trying to find out if they are being lapped, which puts drivers off.

also if you stay in front of the faster driver it could cause a crash and then waste alot of time. if you are behind them it might help you get faster times as you will be getting better lines.

i think it should be announced during the drivers briefing so that people do not forget and it makes those drivers who really arnt sure aware of it.

[modelimages]

the biggest issue at regionals is ability and the racers who book themselves in as an 8 when in reality their a 4, i do the race directing at CML its easy when bookng lee,neil etc but some total stranger you don't know says they are a 7, i look at practice and look at the car and then drop them by 2 it usually is accurate.

[loose]

I want to chang my name to Johnny 'the bullet' fastpants what a cool name:)

In my eyes you shall forever be Johnny my friend ;)

Good advice all round, if ever I race a big event I'll get out of the way. Not usually an issue though as I spend most of my time on my roof or kneecappin poor marshalls.

Do you stickin your qualifying heat for every round or are drivers swapped if its obvious they're in the wrong heat. (I'd imagine not, too much of a headache to organize). Or do drivers get an idea of their ability and tend to be hinest when checking in, so you all find your level? Soz for the dumb questions.

[jim76]

i look at practice and look at the car and then drop them by 2 it usually is accurate.

like it John!

[modelimages]

in your case i took a couple more off:)

[jim76]

in your case i took a couple more off:)
aren't i leading the 4wd CML standings? i must surely be a 10!!!!! :D :D

[Spencer Mulcahy]

I agree with putting drivers in there own ability brachet as the other week at the York regional I was put in a very high heat which I didnt like, I was more bothered about getting in the way of the faster lads than concentrating on my own race so I did pants. If I was in a heat with drivers of my own ability I would be alot more relaxed and drive better. If it is done right you can let faster drivers through without losing time, you dont need to stop to let them through or slow down to much I will tell the faster driver which corner to take me and I pull offline just a little to let them through (then push to keep up with them and crash). If they are true talented drivers they will know how to take you properly.:)

[bretts]

if there's one thing I'll take away from this year's indoor regionals is the word 'LAPPING!!!' .

Serves me right though for not doing any outdoor regionals for a few years.....

I've dropped right down to an F5 so heat 1 for me at Batley and heat 2 at York!! You try telling Derek that I should be moved up a few heats when it says F5 next to your name. At Teeside I got the very nice man to move me up to Heat 4 (10) which was a little better, but I didn't finish lower than 3rd in my heat all day.

I really feel that every second counts at regionals, and I'm sure it put me off all day at Batley & York.

A different rating for Indoor and Outdoor would be nice for those who don't like the mud!!!

Anyway, moaning over outdoor here we come!!!!!

[bigred5765]

I'm not being nasty or pedantic here, but you don't finish any were in heats your racing against the computer this is what we were discussing in here
quote
but I didn't finish lower than 3rd in my heat all day
its the end of the round that counts
3rd in your heat means nothing

[cmgreen]

So are we all agreed that something should be mentioned at regionals?

Information is the best way of learning not complaining

[bretts]

well done Carl thanks for pointing out the obvious.....

My point is exactly the same as yours, we're racing the computer so people with the same ability should be put together, thus they race around without slowing each other down. I fully understand the rules of FTQ and 'round by round' qualifying. So yes, finishing 3rd in my heat didn't matter.

[Chrislong]

I'm not being nasty or pedantic here, but you don't finish any were in heats your racing against the computer this is what we were discussing in here
quote
but I didn't finish lower than 3rd in my heat all day
its the end of the round that counts
3rd in your heat means nothing

Carl, im affraid your wrong when it comes to reality, but right in theory.

There is a big difference in this:
Winning heat 1, by 2 full laps
Finishing 3rd in heat 4, not lapped anyone.

As all the time in lapping everyone in heat 1, would have cost the driver several seconds, or more seconds if anyone drove into him, which has all been avoided when moved to heat 4.

Although, theoretically you are right, but lapping loads of cars every single lap does cost precious time.

Infact, we can test it, lets see Matt in heat 1.

Chris

[bigred5765]

Carl, im affraid your wrong when it comes to reality, but right in theory.

There is a big difference in this:
Winning heat 1, by 2 full laps
Finishing 3rd in heat 4, not lapped anyone.

As all the time in lapping everyone in heat 1, would have cost the driver several seconds, or more seconds if anyone drove into him, which has all been avoided when moved to heat 4.

Although, theoretically you are right, but lapping loads of cars every single lap does cost precious time.

Infact, we can test it, lets see Matt in heat 1.

Chris


nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
i said sorry

[mark christopher]

if there's one thing I'll take away from this year's indoor regionals is the word 'LAPPING!!!' .

Serves me right though for not doing any outdoor regionals for a few years.....

I've dropped right down to an F5 so heat 1 for me at Batley and heat 2 at York!! You try telling Derek that I should be moved up a few heats when it says F5 next to your name. At Teeside I got the very nice man to move me up to Heat 4 (10) which was a little better, but I didn't finish lower than 3rd in my heat all day.

I really feel that every second counts at regionals, and I'm sure it put me off all day at Batley & York.

A different rating for Indoor and Outdoor would be nice for those who don't like the mud!!!

Anyway, moaning over outdoor here we come!!!!!
got to say im down as f5 and have had no problems, maybe i know im on the clock and drive round em not into em:D

[bretts]

mark, have you qualified for the indoor finals?

[Chrislong]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
i said sorry

Ah thats okay then ;)

[mark christopher]

mark, have you qualified for the indoor finals?
no as ive done two meetings!

[AndyM]

So are we all agreed that something should be mentioned at regionals?

Information is the best way of learning not complaining


definately:p

[Northy]

no as ive done two meetings!

Mark, you can still send an entry in, the other regions usually don't take all their places, so there could be some spare.

G

[Robfo]

Come on Mark there's F5's and F5's!;) I qualified 12th in 2wd at the York regional from the first heat, but i'm sure it would have been much easier from the second to top heat but its tough isnt it. Hmm wonder what heat i'll be in this weekend at Batley, Lapping!:)

[ashleyb4]

If anyone should know this it should be me and the southport GP in theory i was fast enough to be in C final but i poled the D and i won the final by almost a lap from the second place man. And i have to say everyone bar one person always moved out my way and te one that didnt was driving a cobra meaning if i hit him he would just carry on and i would be in bits but you just have to compremise by slowing down and folowing him until it is safe to pass.

Im hopefully doing the inddor finals.:)

A

[wacattack]

Come on Mark there's F5's and F5's!;) I qualified 12th in 2wd at the York regional from the first heat, but i'm sure it would have been much easier from the second to top heat but its tough isnt it. Hmm wonder what heat i'll be in this weekend at Batley, Lapping!:)

I second this, I came back to racing last year after a 10 year absense and as such am an F5 and get put in the slower heats.

My bro tells me im impatient at getting past the slower drivers, but as I point out to him if I was in a quicker heat there would be fewer mobile chicanes to avoid, but in the slower heats if you are patient you would lose so much time it would be ridiculous!

[Mr Spock]

Pure logic dictates that if a car is behind you, and you have not just passed that car, you need to let it pass.
This is the way is has always been on Vulcan, the VRCA will Mind Meld you if contravention of this logic occurs. The comitee member for Melding looks a little like your Earth man Stewart Whyman, as a result this is not a prospect that appeals to us.

[mark christopher]

Come on Mark there's F5's and F5's!;) I qualified 12th in 2wd at the York regional from the first heat, but i'm sure it would have been much easier from the second to top heat but its tough isnt it. Hmm wonder what heat i'll be in this weekend at Batley, Lapping!:)
exactly f5 drivers who can drive round and cope with traffic and who get on with it until they are upgraded!!
f5's who carnt

[Chris Doughty]

there is the flip side, if you dominate your heat and everyone knows your car you have got a free run, no pressure, a few chicanes to get around but thats all fine.

you could find yourself in a heat with someone matching your pace and spending most of the heat tripping over each other racing to a fast time you could end up going slower

[Stu]

Spence/Loose - Jonny Fast Pants.......

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jonny+Fast+Pants

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Like some sort of dodgy politician speed orange and plastic bags ( you dont half go on some funny web sites Stu):)

[loose]

Stu - good work that man! :D

You still want the nick name Spence??? ;)

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Seems to have stuck allready Stu Evans has put a sticker on the wing of my xx4 there might be a pic on stu,s site when he puts them up.:)

[LiamD]

After doing a 12th national last weekend, regional driving standards are poor in comparisom.

The reason - I think - is because they don't have a referee to make sure everyone know's who is lapping who.

I am NOT volunteering to do this, but in the 12th section, they take 1 marshal from each race (generally an experienced racer) to referee the next heat, so it's just a suggestion, before anyone goes off on one.

[Northy]

I was actually just going to comment about the aparent lack of skill people have nowadays of driving in traffic, sometimes you dred racing your final. Whats the point trying to do your best all day just to get butchered in the final? :confused:

G

[Chrislong]

Hi G,
I must say on the topic of this thread, you were a gent yesterday. Thanks for letting me through when I ballzd up and caught you back up, even though you were 2-3 seconds up on me due to the start order.

[Northy]

Over the years I have had many a race where I have been about 1 foot or less from the car infront or behind lap after lap. I'm not saying I haven't tagged anyone, but I haven't done it on purpose.

I have got to the point where I know who I can trust to race close to, and who I can't.

It just seems to me that some people want to be past you the split second they catch you, be it in qualifying or final. They make a way past if there isn't one.

This last year at Nationals I've probably had certainly comments from the reff thanking me for letting the faster cars through, than from bad driving (none at all).

There was a time we had 2 reffs at regionals, and the driving standards were better for it.

Rant over.

G

[loose]

Good points, as a beginner I spend a lot of time gettin out of peoples way, but in a strange way it still contributes to learnin to drive. If you can get out of the way without stackin it, and tuck back in nicely you get a sort of buzz still (negative overtaking - its the future, I've seen it). Northy, would you still get out of the way in a final though, you can drive, would you not think that in the final they've gotts earn the place?

And Johnny "the Bullet", glad you like the nickname, wear it with pride and let no man mock your fast pants.

;)

[Northy]

No I would not get out of the way in a final, but I also expect others to try and get past me cleanly, not make a way past.

G

[jimmy]

I did experience a bit of the old 'not moving over for faster cars' when I put the 501X down yesterday and was clearly going quicker than earlier in the day - it ended up ruining my one good run, I wasn't bothered really but I do think people need to learn when to GIVE UP! :)

[Chrislong]

Over the years I have had many a race where I have been about 1 foot or less from the car infront or behind lap after lap. I'm not saying I haven't tagged anyone, but I haven't done it on purpose.

I have got to the point where I know who I can trust to race close to, and who I can't.

It just seems to me that some people want to be past you the split second they catch you, be it in qualifying or final. They make a way past if there isn't one.

This last year at Nationals I've probably had certainly comments from the reff thanking me for letting the faster cars through, than from bad driving (none at all).

There was a time we had 2 reffs at regionals, and the driving standards were better for it.

Rant over.

G

It doesn't sound like a rant, not many would disagree either.

I was actually happy to be behind you, I think I said on the rostrum "No, wait til I am closer". The way I saw it, is I might have caught you but for me to be let past would have cost you time and I wouldn't have gained enough as I had already made a mistake, so I was prepared to maintain that distance rather than snap at your heels. Forgot what happened, but I don't think either of us effected the others qualifier, did we?

[Northy]

Don't worry Chris, your on the 'can trust' list (at the moment!), even though you drive like a loon! :)

G

[Chrislong]

Don't worry Chris, your on the 'can trust' list (at the moment!), even though you drive like a loon! :)

G

:D I think I only drive like a loon, when you are watching. The rest of the time im smooooooth..... honest... ;)

[Spencer Mulcahy]

http://www.northernracer.com/supercup07/13.htm

There you go Loose one little coment and all this starts.:) :)

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Tryed to put picture up but I am computer iliterate.:)

[jim76]

I was actually just going to comment about the aparent lack of skill people have nowadays of driving in traffic, sometimes you dred racing your final. Whats the point trying to do your best all day just to get butchered in the final? :confused:

G

i put a lot of this down to snoring cars. a lot of the beginners start off on touring cars then get bored and try offroad. over taking in touring cars is a no-brainer, you just use the car in front to slow you down and get round the corner! Unfortunately this doesn't work in open wheel buggies!

i like the idea of one person from the previous heat to act as a ref like in 12th. or bring back the regional ref. The F3's at tivvy were a pleasure to race in due to the reffing.

[Col]

Sticker kindly supplied by Barry Williams...

http://www.racephoto.co.uk/stu/supercup07/13.jpg

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Cheers Col I now feel welcomed to the North East racing faternity.:) (ie you are taking the piss out of me :) :) ) Thanx for the sticker Barry will keep it on for the rest of the season (or until the wing gives up):cool:

[loose]

http://www.northernracer.com/supercup07/13.htm

There you go Loose one little coment and all this starts.:) :)

lol - cool sticker johnny. When you become an international superstar we'll talk about royalties.....;)

Look forward to seeing the "the bullet" moniker in the NE this season. You've got the cool nickname, now, who wants Tommy "Turd Slow" McTavish? :eh?:

:D :D

[AndyM]

You've got the cool nickname, now, who wants Tommy "Turd Slow" McTavish? :eh?:

:D :D


i think that pretty much sums me up :p

[Barry Williams]

Cheers Col I now feel welcomed to the North East racing faternity.:) (ie you are taking the piss out of me :) :) ) Thanx for the sticker Barry will keep it on for the rest of the season (or until the wing gives up):cool:

My pleasure "Mr Fastpants" ;)

[Spencer Mulcahy]

lol - cool sticker johnny. When you become an international superstar we'll talk about royalties.....;)

Look forward to seeing the "the bullet" moniker in the NE this season. You've got the cool nickname, now, who wants Tommy "Turd Slow" McTavish? :eh?:

:D :D

Well in a parallel universe if I am Johnny "the bullet" fastpants (me being pants) then Neil must have Tommy "turd slow" Mctavish"(him after his display on sunday being well a world champ):) :) :cool:

[Fabs]

there is the flip side, if you dominate your heat and everyone knows your car you have got a free run, no pressure, a few chicanes to get around but thats all fine.

you could find yourself in a heat with someone matching your pace and spending most of the heat tripping over each other racing to a fast time you could end up going slower

Chris,

Much as this may sound true, you have to take into account the ability of the drivers in your heat to actually let you pass. Last week end, I was put in bottom heat. Now I haven't raced buggies in some time and not in this country anyway, so that wasn't much of a surprise.

In each run I found myself with a pile of cars in front of me. They did a good job at getting out of the way when there wasn't another car with them, but there was always a lap or two where they'd tangle into each other just in front of me. Some times I had to stop in the middle of the track, nowhere to go :o.

Had this not happened, I would have not qualified 22nd but somewhere in the B. You may loose a couple of seconds qualifying with a guy that's near your pace, but nowhere near as much as in bottom heat.

[Robfo]

Exactly the same for me fab, you in 4wd me in 2wd. Still we both moved into decent finals, some with better outcomes than others:rolleyes: , how is your trophy btw;)

[Fabs]

Still in me bag with the rest of my racing stuff...

[super__dan]

I've not read all of this thread so don't shoot me but if you're asking to be put in a higher heat please remember I think it's BRCA rules to be put in license order. There is some race directors discretion I think but you need to bear this in mind.