Etronix Powerpal...any good?

[blue_pinky]

Hi,

Looking for a single box solution to balance charging lipo's...i.e. 240AC & 12v DC with balancer built in.

Was about to order a Bantom BC6 but have just noticed the Etronix Powerpal...

http://www.microtechracing.com//product_info.asp?name=ETRONIX+POWERPAL+CHARGER+%2F +DISCHARGER+%2F+CYCLER&ID=19220&Pcat=ACCESSORIES&cat=CHARGERS

From the pictures and spec's I can find they look identical, except for the price and paint job...£109 for bc6 versus £80 for the Etronix.

Has anyone got any experience of the Etronix, the BC6 seems to get good review from people so was happy with that...but if I can save a few £££?!?!

[blue_pinky]

Been looking at it more, and the balancing side, I'm actually wondering if the Etronix only balances via discharging, and not while charging...which would be a downside to it. Does anyone know if this is actually the case or am I assuming it incorrectly?

The cables also look like they use a round pin connector to attach to the charger, which doesn't look as good quality wise compared to the BC6, is that the case as well?

Also, with the BC6...the instructions talk about lipo charge modes...charging, balance charging, fast charging and storage charging.

The fast mode just seems to short charge the battery, which sounds useful for club racing where the time between heats is potentially short, but does anyone know if it balance charges while it's doing this? How do these diffrent modes work out in reality?

Any info/feedback would be gratefully received!

Ta muchly

[RichB]

It looks like it balances during charging to me - they do call it a "balance charger" as well.

Re. "fast mode": most LiPo's have a max charge rate (often 1C), so you generally can't go any faster than this.

Those round-pin connectory are rubbish for high currents - the CORE UDC-20 comes with a similar connector set, and when I tested them I found they had a relatively high resistance causing a large voltage drop across the connector, leading to the charger thinking it hit the terminal voltage early on and reducing the current, hence increasing the charge time. Nothing that a couple of minutes with a soldering iron and some chunky wire won't sort out though.

[peetbee]

I don't know these chargers specifically, but generally the 'fast' charge mode is just charging without balancing.
Balance charging is a lot slower than unbalanced!

Looking at the pictures of the Entronix it looks to me as though a single lead plugs into the charger (via banana plugs) and then you plug in the other leads to that, as required to switch between connector types.
(Very similar to one of my chargers) This means that you can make up your own dedicated lead using corrally or similar style banana plugs.

[blue_pinky]

Cheers Pete, that makes sense about the cables! Reckon if I did go this way I'd avoid using them, as RichB has said, they're not ideal due to the losses involved.

Rich, I've looked into this 'fast charge' for lipo as it sounded a bit odd for a lipo to me too! The 1C rule being what I've always stuck to as per manufacturers recommendations.

According to the manual it seems the BC6's fast mode just stops the charge early, i.e. when it drops to 1/5th of the max current, rather than letting it run the charge current down to 1/10th of the max current, as you would on a full CC-CV charge cycle.

As you say Pete, balance charging is a little slower, so it'd make sense for it just to be a regular charge in that mode as well.

[KRob]

I've got a PowerPal and I can't fault it really.
Yes it is (almost?) exactly the same as the BC6 - and the software looks remarkably similar to the Core RC chargers as well ;). Someone is making some good money from that LOL
It does a normal charge, balance charge and a 'fast' charge. The only one that balances is the 'balance' charge (sounds obvious I suppose).
Very handy having 12v and 240v ability.

[blue_pinky]

Thanks, looks like I could go for it then...just found one for £70!!!

What balancing leads do you use? I assume the balancing port on the charger the same as the BC6 then?

[KRob]

Yep, port is the same as a BC6.
It comes with loads of leads BUT not one for the Trakpower style 2mm pin connector for balancing (which most cells use these days). For that you will also need one of these:

http://www.microtechracing.com//product_info.asp?name=CORE+RC+BALANCE+CHARGE+LEAD+ %2D+JST+TO+TRAKPOWER&ID=19031&Pcat=ACCESSORIES&cat=CHARGERS

[blue_pinky]

So the Etronix charger has arrived today, looks good! Much more compact than the 3 boxes (PSU, charger & balancer) that I usually carry around :thumbsup:

Haven't even turned it on yet, but the one difference to the bc6 that I can see straight away is a sticker on the box saying "Update:This model does not include USB link function as printed on box/label"

Not an issue to me, although I might have liked to give it a go at some point in the future, but I'm not worried about that since it was quite a lot cheaper!

Looking forward to giving it a go later tonight anyway, thanks for the replies!

[Cassp0nk]

I'm very suspicious of this charger. It looks like another dodgy chinese reverse engineer of the bantam including pinching the software interface (just like IMAX do). The thing with the imax though is that they down spec some very important components in the voltage measurement circuits of the balancer which means it under/overcharges all the cells depending on where the parts are out of spec. So not only have they stolen someone elses design (at the circuit board level) + software, they have made it so it will ruin your batteries. Not saying this one is the same, but it even looks like they stole the bantam case design+button layout etc etc. IMAX at least changed the box!

Anyway, only thing to do it check each cell after a charge with a top quality digital voltmeter and see what they have been charged to (regardless of what the charger thinks it has charged them to). It may be fine, but I would be very suspicious until proven otherwise.

I really feel for bantam who are being ripped off left right and centre by chinese companies without the expertise to design their own units or even rip off bantam properly. M-K racing sold me my Bantam and now they only stock these on their site :(

Anyway someone please check the cell voltages...

[KRob]

Used mine for the first two BRCA off-road nationals with 3 different Intellect lipos and as they are checking voltage before they go on track (with Paul Worsley ratified equipment no less) they have registered 8.36 to 8.38 volts on all 10 occasions :thumbsup:

Okay so the charger says 8.4 volts but none of the other chargers are that accurate either (although I stand to be corrected of course :))

Yes it appears to be a Bantam rip-off and it certainly is, but having charged a variety of lipo and nimh packs on it now I am confident it works as it should.

[Cassp0nk]

I thought balancers were meant to be within 0.01v if decent quality? At least your doesn't seem to overcharge!

[JJ The Boat Wizzard]

I thought balancers were meant to be within 0.01v if decent quality? At least your doesn't seem to overcharge!

Show me one that dose that and i will eat my hat :lol: i know were talking about Lipo's here but my 150 quid muchmore discharger , perosnal matcher + equlizer only dose it to with in 0.09 - 0.2v 's

[Cassp0nk]

This is one of the threads on the imax:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=746574

Personally I think its worth the extra 30 quid for a decent charger rather than a chinese knock off as I use expensive lipos. If I was using zippys then i guess who cares ;)