Which Losi shocks for a B44?

[c0sie]

I have a set of Losi shocks from my S2, but does anyone know if they will be the right length for the B44 or will I need to purchase new sets??


Thanks :)

[maxoo]

It's the same ;)

I use XXX-CR shocks on my B44 and my S2 ;)

[c0sie]

Great, thanks!

[AndyM]

I'll second that, i use the Losi shocks from my X6 on my b44 which should be the same as your S2 ones. :)

[c0sie]

Thanks :)

[millzy]

and the point is

[c0sie]

I prefer Losi shocks....Pinky :)

[millzy]

thats a bit Bi dont you think- AE car losi shocks

id rather be straight and run AE with AE shocks even in pink its more straight than your bi love match

[c0sie]

I like to dabble...lol

Look at my bastard S2 and X6 then....mixture of AE, Losi and a 3rd party...all into one

Like a 3-way gangbang of carbon and shock oil.

Your bi-ness is rubbing off on me :D

[c0sie]

Any of you guys using Losi shocks on your B44's fancy posting some pics of the mounting?

And, letting me know what shock settings you are using if you run indoors?

Thanks :)

[Mike Hudson]

Any of you guys using Losi shocks on your B44's fancy posting some pics of the mounting?

And, letting me know what shock settings you are using if you run indoors?

Thanks :)

You just put losi shock bushings mounts on the tower instead of the ae ones and bolt them straight on, theres nothing to it,

I think silver or green front spring with red piston/35wt in fronts and pink rear spring with blue/30wt in rears is a good starting point to try?

[millzy]

you want some bi mounting picks do ya

[c0sie]

Mike - Great help as always :)

Millzy - Wrong...oh so wrong lol :D

[AndyM]

I think silver or green front spring with red piston/35wt in fronts and pink rear spring with blue/30wt in rears is a good starting point to try?

That might be too soft Mike; i'm running 40wt with red pistons and green springs on the front and 35wt orange piston and pink springs. This set up worked well indoors with mini pins on a polished floor and carpet, although it felt quite soft!

hope this helps :)

[jono83]

what was pidge running at talywain?, as he had losi shocks on his b44

[c0sie]

Whats the difference between red, blue and orange pistons (other than the colour.....)?

I have red and orange pistons here....would they be ok? or is the blue piston a MUST?

Thanks :)

[jono83]

the size of the holes in them

[AndyM]

Whats the difference between red, blue and orange pistons (other than the colour.....)?

I have red and orange pistons here....would they be ok? or is the blue piston a MUST?

Thanks :)

yeh, it's the size of the hole.

Red has the smallest hole and blue the largest hole, with orange in between.

I would have thought blue would be too soft. :)

[Chris Doughty]

yeh, it's the size of the hole.

Red has the smallest hole and orange the largest hole, with blue in between.

I would have thought orange would be too soft, but you could give it a go. :)

I always thought it went...

#60 natural (very very small)
#57 black
#56 red
#55 orange
#54 blue (biggest hole)

Cris - run the following
Front
Red Piston, 35wt oil - Silver Spring (inside hole on wishbone for more steering - outside if you want less)

Rear
Orange Piston, 27.5wt oil - Pink spring (inside hole on wishbone)


Blue pistons were always used in the back when you wanted to go with the 'no pack' setup to ride bumps, this did compromise landing jumps, but it floated over the bumps really well (rear)

[Northy]

A XX4 can also get away with Blue pistons due to the longer shocks and magic that happens back there..... :woot:

G

[AndyM]

I always thought it went...

#60 natural (very very small)
#57 black
#56 red
#55 orange
#54 blue (biggest hole)

Cris - run the following
Front
Red Piston, 35wt oil - Silver Spring (inside hole on wishbone for more steering - outside if you want less)

Rear
Orange Piston, 27.5wt oil - Pink spring (inside hole on wishbone)


Blue pistons were always used in the back when you wanted to go with the 'no pack' setup to ride bumps, this did compromise landing jumps, but it floated over the bumps really well (rear)

oOps, my bad! got my orange and blue mixed up :thumbdown::lol: (I've edited all my previous posts, thanks Chris!)
I'm actually running orange pistons in the rear, not blue.

[c0sie]

CD & all,

Thanks for all the help :)


Cris

[millzy]

I always thought it went...

#60 natural (very very small)
#57 black
#56 red
#55 orange
#54 blue (biggest hole)

Cris - run the following
Front
Red Piston, 35wt oil - Silver Spring (inside hole on wishbone for more steering - outside if you want less)

Rear
Orange Piston, 27.5wt oil - Pink spring (inside hole on wishbone)





Blue pistons were always used in the back when you wanted to go with the 'no pack' setup to ride bumps, this did compromise landing jumps, but it floated over the bumps really well (rear)



whats the Pack set up then??

[Chris Doughty]

in the back of the S4/B44

orange/27.5wt was used when we needed to land jumps (Stotfold)
blue/30wt was used to ride ripples and ruts

[millzy]

in the back of the S4/B44

orange/27.5wt was used when we needed to land jumps (Stotfold)
blue/30wt was used to ride ripples and ruts

i never under stand pack- but thanks for that will make a note

[Chris Doughty]

with big holes and thick oil Vs small holes and thin oil - you (within reason) get a similar 'slow' speed damping.

the differance is at high speed (piston speed, not car speed) (landing a massive jump) the thin oil flows faster through the small holes compared to the thick oil through the big holes and the thin oil flowing fast becomes turbulant and less efficient at getting through the holes, and 'packs' up a bit making the damping a little stiffer.

[millzy]

with big holes and thick oil Vs small holes and thin oil - you (within reason) get a similar 'slow' speed damping.

the differance is at high speed (piston speed, not car speed) (landing a massive jump) the thin oil flows faster through the small holes compared to the thick oil through the big holes and the thin oil flowing fast becomes turbulant and less efficient at getting through the holes, and 'packs' up a bit making the damping a little stiffer.


I think that’s the best that’s ever been written and explained to me


do you have an example of when to use big holes or small holes on uk tracks with the b4 on ae shocks?

[c0sie]

Umm,

Chris (D)....I unsderstand the theory that thick oil and big holes is similar to thin oil and small holes at low speed....but if the thin oil 'packs' up at 'speed', where does the difference lie between using big holes and thick oil at 'speed'?

Agree with Millzy though, great explaination! :)

[Chris Doughty]

B4 with AE shocks does not really need changing, it was always the case that I just ask Mick Cragg what he was running, I can't drive or setup a 2WD car for toffee :woot:

with regard to the thin/small combo packing up, basically because of the smaller holes, the oil has to flow faster through these holes, the faster the flow of oil the more turbulant and less efficient at 'getting through' the holes the oil becomes.
thats why, at high speed movement of the piston, the small/light combo has more resistance than the 'matching' big/thick combo

[Northy]

Graham North likes this :thumbsup:

[millzy]

is there a psiton oil change thta you make to the front with losi shovks when changing the rear to the pack set up

[Chris Doughty]

is there a psiton oil change thta you make to the front with losi shovks when changing the rear to the pack set up

not normally, typically the front end of cars seems to get through the bumps without too much issue, its just the rear that has issues with bumps

you can go for a black piston with lighter oil if you find the front end double bouncing when landing a jump (batley double springs to mind here)

[millzy]

you dont lose any steering / front end responce when changing from pack to non pack set up

[Chris Doughty]

you dont lose any steering / front end responce when changing from pack to non pack set up

in theory, No, as weight transfer is typically slow piston speed movements, but you might notice something.

with setups, things are rarely perfect to theory

[millzy]

in theory, No, as weight transfer is typically slow piston speed movements, but you might notice something.

with setups, things are rarely perfect to theory


oh god new can of worms - slow piston speed movements??

can i ask is going from 27.5 to 30 enough of a weight increase ?


loving the replys chris, huge help .

[jono83]

i would go thicker personally but thats just me. The assumption is made that if pistons are changed, the viscosity of the oil is also adapted, to give the same static feel. (Same low-speed damping)

[Chris Doughty]

I think we used to change about 5wt(maybe 2.5wt) per piston size to get a similar static damping feel.

but it depends on so many things, shock position, springs, ambient temperature and so on...

[millzy]

I think we used to change about 5wt(maybe 2.5wt) per piston size to get a similar static damping feel.

but it depends on so many things, shock position, springs, ambient temperature and so on...



oh oh oh - tell me more

how would it be effected by shock position and springs

[Chris Doughty]

the further out on the wishbone the shock is mounted, the faster the piston speed for the same 'wheel' speed.

springs probably don't make enough differance to care about.

[millzy]

the further out on the wishbone the shock is mounted, the faster the piston speed for the same 'wheel' speed.

springs probably don't make enough differance to care about.

ok that little line lost me??

[Northy]

If the shock is mounted further out, the shock piston has to move through more oil for the same distance moved by the wheel.

As it takes the same time (in theory) to do it - all things equal - the piston speed must be higher.

[Chris Doughty]

if the wheel moves 50mm in 1 second and the shock is mounted RIGHT on the outside near the wheel, the piston will move roughly 50mm in 1 second

if the shock is mounted half way along the wishbone, the piston will only move roughly 25mm but it will still take 1 second - 25mm per second

so in this extreme (and simple) example, the shock mounted in the 'outer' location has twice the piston speed compared with the inside position for the same wheel speed.

**this is an exagerated and simplified example**

(G beat me to it)

[millzy]

and you two understand all this

its a good read- but to be honest im still not and wiser to what it achives


the shock location in reffrence to the oil piston combo

[Chris Doughty]

if you don't change the shock location, its fine.

but if you do change the shock location on the arm, it will probably have an effect on the amount of pack you will get.

I strongly believe that there are so many things that change when you make a change on a car, sometimes you make a change and it does the oposite of what you think it should do, this is often because when you have changed something, you also change something else without realising it.

so moving the shock out on the arm will make the wheel rate stiffer(less leverage over the spring), and it will also increase the piston speed and therefore pack, so which of these changes made the differance?

its possible to sit down and think about stuff all day long, best thing is to get out there and see what works in real life. and what works for you might not work for someone else.

[AmiSMB]

Milzy you may want to read this:-

Click here (http://users.telenet.be/elvo/3/2.html) for Elvo's info on suspension.

From this I understand that when tracks get bumpy it is often better to go with the larger piston holes and thicker oil so the packs comes in at faster shock speeds rather than "packing" and therefore throwing the car around . You can still get pack on the large jumps but allow the suspension to work over some of the faster bumps. I often feel I can get a better setup using larger holed pistons than I can with smaller hole pistons but that might be due to the range of oils that I have! I like the larger hole when running my 8th cars as they feel nice and smooth when on the bench but chuck them down real hard and you feel the pack.

[millzy]

if you don't change the shock location, its fine.

but if you do change the shock location on the arm, it will probably have an effect on the amount of pack you will get.

I strongly believe that there are so many things that change when you make a change on a car, sometimes you make a change and it does the oposite of what you think it should do, this is often because when you have changed something, you also change something else without realising it.

so moving the shock out on the arm will make the wheel rate stiffer(less leverage over the spring), and it will also increase the piston speed and therefore pack, so which of these changes made the differance?

its possible to sit down and think about stuff all day long, best thing is to get out there and see what works in real life. and what works for you might not work for someone else.


ok so it dosnt matter where i have my shocks mounted on the tower - long as i dont change the shock loaction when changing from pack to non pack shock set up


and answer to the retorical question i really dont know - guess the pack made the diffrence?

[Chris Doughty]

ok so it dosnt matter where i have my shocks mounted on the tower - long as i dont change the shock loaction when changing from pack to non pack shock set up


and answer to the retorical question i really dont know - guess the pack made the diffrence?

it does have an effect, but not as much as the location on the arm.

the long and short of it is, if you are changing pistons and oil to change pack, don't change shock location too else you might end up with the oposite effect on pack than what you actually wanted

[millzy]

it does have an effect, but not as much as the location on the arm.

the long and short of it is, if you are changing pistons and oil to change pack, don't change shock location too else you might end up with the oposite effect on pack than what you actually wanted

Nice one and for every piston you go up or down you change the oil 5w to match the piston change

can i check

35 number 1 is the no pack
and 30 2 is the pack

for the b4

[Chris Doughty]

Nice one and for every piston you go up or down you change the oil 5w to match the piston change

can i check

35 number 1 is the no pack
and 30 2 is the pack

for the b4

ask Mick Cragg... I never had to change my B4 so I don't even know which AE pistons are the small or the big holes :woot: :thumbsup:

[millzy]

ask Mick Cragg... I never had to change my B4 so I don't even know which AE pistons are the small or the big holes :woot: :thumbsup:

1 big
2 smaller
3 smallesr

as kit that is

ive got pistons

31

105

in my b4

[ex-sco77morgan]

in the back of the S4/B44

orange/27.5wt was used when we needed to land jumps (Stotfold)
blue/30wt was used to ride ripples and ruts
Sounds like a bit of a plan for Talywain if you ask me !!

Mega confused after reading that but I think I got it.........

I'm going to have 1 set with red pistons, 1 set with orange pistons & 1 set with blue pistons and change the complete shock as to the track this seems far easier.

I'm running Red 27.5wt/30wt, So if I run orange I should look at 32.5/35 and blue 35/37.5 depending on track (large jumps red/orange, bumpy as orange/blue)


HOW FAR OFF AM I

[AntH]

I'm looking at getting a B44 soon, what is the issue with the standard shocks? Are the Losi shocks much better in practice? Back in the day when I was last racing in the mid-90's the Associated shocks were so-called 'aeration' (probably spelled that wrong) with no diaphagm in the cap, is this still the case (and issue)? If I have to buy the B44 and then get some new shocks that's putting me off a little bit.

[ex-sco77morgan]

Think the issue is that some people PREFER working with Losi shocks. The associated ones are excellent also its just personal preference really. When you've practised with the Associated ones, getting all the air out they are great. I prefer the Losi's as I find them quicker and easier to work on plus I like PINK haha. There is not an issue or problem with the Associated shocks though.

[c0sie]

As Scott has said, you certainly do not NEED the Losi shocks, but some people just choose to use them as personal preference.

If the standard kit B44 shocks were no good all the top AE team drivers wouldnt use them at Nationals :)

Rest assured that the kit shocks are more than adequate :)