SX REAR MOUNTED SHOCK MOD

[stegger]

In jimmy's report (and what a great report) there's photo's of si moss's car with the rear shocks mounted behind the rear shock tower.
1/ What benefit does this have ?
2/ Is it only for certain tracks ?
3/ Do you run different oil's, pistons, spring with the mod ?
Thanks in advance :D

[Chrislong]

Hey Ste, There is an easy way of doing this mod, all you need are four long screws, 2x M3 locknuts and something to shim the tower back further. If you remove the wishbones from the gearbox sides, and literally put them on the other side of the car (but remember to get toe in right).... this achieves rear mounting positions on the wishbone, while wheelbase being marginally shorter (2mm). Then mount the tower on the rear of the tower mount, but with some spacing (I used about 6-7mm by using 4x Losi pistons I had lay around) and use longer screws here. Then using long screws to mount the shocks, followed by 2x lock nuts (so the shocks are behind the tower and nut under it as with the std shock screws). The only thing to modify is the rear bumper, which needs to be cut narrow as the blocks now hang further back than they did. You may need more antisquat, as the wishbone on LWB binds on the blocks otherwise.

I have seen two other ways of doing this. One involves swapping wishbone but not blocks, and then modifying the wishbone - this acheives a very short wheelbase. The other way is leaving the wishbones alone and redrilling them - so nothing else on the car changes - just the shocks.

The benefit, is when the wishbone flex's, because the shock is on the rear it is now the front of the wishbone which flex's and this helps the car drive very bumpy tracks such as Talywain - this is where it was tried and was found to be good.

It was done for a certain track, but this mod will give benefits on all tracks... as it also moves weight rearwards which I believe the car needs. it also does other things (depending on which way you do the mod, there are 3 ways of achieving the rear mounted shock). but the way most have done this, makes the car shorter, and the angle of the driveshafts creates better forward traction.

I would not change the setup for the initial try. Shouldn't need to be any different.

Ste, PM me your email address, I will email you some photos tomorrow of how mine looks.

[jimmy]

Good stuff Chris - I was just told 'its better over the bumps boss' - but you actually explained it all! :thumbsup:

[restimax]

any images? :blush:

[Losi_110]

hi chris, a quick question. Do you not run the roll bar on the back of your car? I'm assuming that with the wishbones turned round you can't use it any more.

[tony12795]

Mossy tried what Chris has said and yes the idea was to make the car better over bumpy sections. But at Ozfest he put the whish bones the correct way and just left the shocks at the back, The Team are just testing little tweaks here and there to fine tune the rear end a little. So Mossy did run the rear roll bar at Ozfest.

You will also notice that that he is running the car a little harder too (Grey springs)

Tony

[Chrislong]

Yeh to mount the rear roll bar, you will need to drill holes in wishbone for the way I have explained.

Some people have only swapped wishbones, not the blocks, but then file 3-4mm off the back otherwise the car is mega_short.com.

I think Mossy has left wishbones alone but then drilled new holes for the shocks on rear of wishbone, so nothing other than shocks has changed. Apparently the method above gives better forward traction than this due to swept forward driveshaft angle.

The way I have done it is somewhere between these two. Will be giving it a thrashing on Saturday. I haven't seen anyone achieve rear shocks with my method yet either. :blush:

An unmodified car is still excellent. For example Grant Williams was in the A-final at Oswestry with his car unmodified. So its all down to personal taste. Don't just follow a trend like a mindless sheep thinking it is necessary, as it isn't always. ;)

[martin]

Schumacher will shortly be releasing a little conversion bag to move the shocks to the rear, the bag includes the hardware to do this as well as a new link mount to move the ball forwards to miss the shock.

[stegger]

Where's the info on this boss

[Chrislong]

Im intrigued

[tony12795]

Hay Chris, Jonesy was running the standard rear end too and he made top of the B at Ozfest....

[Chrislong]

Yeh, Jonesy did well, I wanted him to make the A final.

I was just making the point that rear mounted shock mod may be more of a trend than a necessity. So dis-couraging everyone jumping on the band-wagon.

Fair enough people trying it, I am, I intend to also try other mounting methods over time (possibly during Belgium). But im quite prepared to go back to front shocks.

[Mossy]

We made the change at Talywain like Chris said to try and allow the car to handle the smaller bumpy sections better. Shocks at the rear of the car have allowed me to run a stiffer back end with bigger hole pistons, allowing us to reduce some of the pak.

All i have done is drill a hole in the rear of the wishbones to allow me to just change the shocks rather than the wishbone direction aswell. With the wishbones flipped round i wanted to reduce the angle of the driveshafts to a more level angle, hence returning the wishbones to the original place.

This is somethin we as a team are going to continue to develop, but the good thing is we have an extra option to try rather than just the standard shock layout.

Si

[Losi_110]

Yeh, Jonesy did well, I wanted him to make the A final.

I was just making the point that rear mounted shock mod may be more of a trend than a necessity. So dis-couraging everyone jumping on the band-wagon.

Fair enough people trying it, I am, I intend to also try other mounting methods over time (possibly during Belgium). But im quite prepared to go back to front shocks.

Like you say It's worth thinking about as an option as it's one that's so easy to change back if it doesn't make an improvement, the setup I've got on my car is really good, just have to be a bit careful that it doesn't roll over, but I'm still waiting for my front one way to turn up and hopefully that will sort the problem.:thumbsup:

[MHeadling]

Discostu ran his Cat last night at Faversham with the rear shock mod, he did by turning the arms and mounts round and cutting down the rear bumper.

The car looked good and drove well when I had a go with it.

Stu get some pics up if you can!

[stegger]

Yeh chris where's the pic's you promised :p:p

[Chrislong]

LOL, in a minute or 5.... :lol:

[Chrislong]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2705.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2706.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2707.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2708.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2709.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2710.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2711.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2712.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2713.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2714.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2715.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/Chrislong69/DSCN2716.jpg

[Chrislong]

Those are the pictures. If anyone needs to see any other angles, just let me know and I'll do it.

[stegger]

Think you've covered it fella :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[tony12795]

Chris you my hero :p

[Lee]

Chris you my hero :p

Me love you long time :thumbsup::lol:

[Chrislong]

:wub :lol:

[PaulUpton]

At Oswestry i mounted the shocks on the back of the wishbone, with wishbones in right place, to do this, dill a new hole on back of wishbone move shocktower to the rear of bulkhead, get a 30mm screw to attach shock so this clears the camber link, car felt alot better like this!

To run the wishbones around, dill a new hole for the roll bar, turn the wishbones around, leave shocktower on the back of bulkhead, job done, not sure why you need to play around with blocks or cut bumpers like Chris has done, mines fine, car was much better like this than with wishbones the same way, could throw it a lot harder into the corner and get on power much earlyer too! I am even running mine with the quick klips at the back of wishbone to make it even shorter!

Pics below, i have made my own carbon bracket to straighten up the cambe links but thats it!

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs118.snc1/4734_102424488448_701843448_1864079_8084987_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs118.snc1/4734_102424493448_701843448_1864080_6807318_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs098.snc1/4734_102424498448_701843448_1864081_2524334_n.jpg

http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs098.snc1/4734_102424503448_701843448_1864082_1480679_n.jpg

[Chrislong]

The reason I have done it my way and not yours is - I don't need to make a new camber link mount, and I don't need to drill new holes on the wishbone (which im not confident I can do evenly - which would spoil the whole point in doing it)

[PaulUpton]

been thinking about the way you have done it chris, and it isnt going to shorten the wheelbase, which is what turning the wishbones around acheives and provides more traction!

not saying your way is wrong by any means

Paul

[discostu]

hey paul

i had a little play last night with the wishbone mod i turned the rear arms and hangers around when you do this the wheel base is about the same as standard position it seem to genarate good on power traction i think the only fair test can be done is to try all methods back to back i tried the same mod on the d4 and it seem to create the same effect it would be good if shumacher would bring a option to do this.

stu

[discostu]

been thinking about the way you have done it chris, and it isnt going to shorten the wheelbase, which is what turning the wishbones around acheives and provides more traction!

not saying your way is wrong by any means

Paul


just re read your post its not just to shorten wheelbase it also to move the weight distribution of the rear of the car which would make a bigger diffrence in my opinion. i also tied the same mod on my corraly rdx phi the arms were kept the same just moved the shocks and on my tc it locked the back end of the car so much so i struggled to get it to rotate on tight high bite tracks.

stu

[PaulUpton]

You say there the same lenghth but it should be shorter!

Mine is about 5-7mm shorter depending where spacers are than the standard cat, but we noticed at racing last night, 3 cats with the mod with wishbones around, all had different wheelbase, which is strange!

Paul

[discostu]

You say there the same lenghth but it should be shorter!

Mine is about 5-7mm shorter depending where spacers are than the standard cat, but we noticed at racing last night, 3 cats with the mod with wishbones around, all had different wheelbase, which is strange!

Paul


yeah if you turn just thre arms around it is much shorter if you turn the hangers around and trim the bumper it moves the rear arms further rear ward i sat mine next to a standard cat last night it was pretty much the same certanly not 5-7mm diffrence i think it all depends on how the mod is done.

stu

[MattW]

I have to admit, I didn't catch on straight away that Chris was talking in his initial post about turning the blocks round as well - this will keep the wheelbase "similar".

Personally, I have tried is with just the shocks moved - and wishbone drilled, and this made maybe a tiny difference. I then tried it with the wisbhones flipped, and the wheelbase shortened by a chunk. This felt good, but maybe a touch too much. I have since modified some bits to take the wheelbase back 2mm, and this feels good. It is shorter than std, but not as short as it can be.

Schumacher are indeed making a small kit of parts to reverse the shocks. I'm not 100% sure what parts are coming in that kit to be honest, but it should be available shortly.

[discostu]

ive just measured the wheel base standard is about 278 depending on spacer location mounts and arms turned round measures about 277 again depending on spacer locations.

stu

[Chrislong]

I don't want or need to shorten the wheelbase, I generate a bucket load of forward traction already. Doing the way I have done means the wheelbase is around 1-2mm shorter, no more, than a standard car. But aswell as not needing to drill and risk uneven distance holes, nothing except the bumper is modified and so I can easily put it back - and use parts when the Schumacher kit is ready.

[Lee]

This thread reminds me of touring cars.











You should be ashamed of yourselves :lol:

[Chrislong]

:blush: Now YOU say it, I am, I really am.

[RSharpy]

Rear mod now available, info from Schumacher - :)


New CAT SX Rear Shock Conversion



The new CAT SX optional shock layout modification has been developed by the Schumacher design engineers in conjunction with our Race Team.


It has benefits for varying types of tracks, however is especially good on very bumpy ones and those with low traction.




The tuning bag comes with all the parts required to reverse the shock position to mount on the rear of the wishbone and reduce the wheelbase by 6mm.


This enables greater rear weight bias, a more angled rear driveshaft and a more rearward wing position.


All these things give the car more rear traction, however at the expense of high speed steering on most surfaces.


The new 4mm thick C/F camber link bracket included in the pack also allows for multiple link length’s due to its alternate hole positions.



U3529 - C/F Rear Shock Conversion-CAT SX - £11.99 (http://www.racing-cars.com/products.asp?recnumber=27360)

[stegger]

It's great to see the team and schumacher going forward with idea's like this and bringing them to the masses. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[mw02veg]

ive been reading this thread and scratching my head. personally i dont believe there is an issue with where the shocks are on the rear end. myself and matt both made the A final at the tally national to be fair i didnt drive that well in the finals but matt qualified and finished very respectable. and then with oz car was awesome from the word go another solid A final. dont think the car could of been better. within the finals i felt i could push alot harder than mossy and was a touch quicker when together in the finals.
this dosent mean to say the next look rear end is wrong as i havent had a chance to try it out. i personally think the issue with the rear end could be solved by increasing the volume of the shocks. i have metioned this the the big man :thumbsup:

[MHeadling]

Just seen the pics on redrc, so does this mean you swap the blocks/arms round to mount the shocks on the rear?

I take it does as just drilling the arms will keep the same wheel base and it mentions short wheel base in the info

[restimax]

well i have see the schumacher mail news to day...:thumbsup:

[Chrislong]

Just seen the pics on redrc, so does this mean you swap the blocks/arms round to mount the shocks on the rear?

I take it does as just drilling the arms will keep the same wheel base and it mentions short wheel base in the info

The kit from Schumacher swaps the wishbones, but not the hangers, thats why it is 6mm shorter.

[MHeadling]

Got you! Cheers for clearing that up!

[autoxvw]

so this is what i gathered,
-just swaping the shocks to the back does not change the wheel base
-swaping the shocks and arms shortens the base by 6mm
-swaping shocks, arms and blocks does????

[discostu]

swapping shocks arms and blocks keeps wheel base simular.:thumbsup:

[restimax]

the kit is raccomanded for use with alloy upper rear trasmission...
but if take for mount on the standard plastic upper rear trasmission?:eh?:

[bender]

Well I have done a little bench testing and to be honest, I'm not quite sure of exactly which is the right way to go :confused:

The problem with just swapping the arms over (as per the Schuie mod) is it makes a big difference to wheelbase (which may not be a big deal) but it increases the driveshaft sweep enormously, in fact more than on any other off road car I've ever seen!

This might provide more grip, but I believe it will bind the rear suspension, making it handle even worse on rough tracks :eh?:

I think this is where Chris Long's idea is perhaps better as it would appear to offer a slightly better weight distribution, but also improved handling.

I suppose the key question is what is everyone tring to achieve - more grip or better handling?

I'd be interested to hear what others think about the driveshaft sweep, and in particular, how much is too much?

I also agree with the suggestion that it's the volume of the shocks that need looking at, I personally think the kit shocks are crap :thumbdown:

[PaulUpton]

Me pesonally so far think the shorter wheelbase as per schumacher mod is the best (for me)! Not that it will suit all tracks though!

Chris's wau of doing gives pretty much the same result as just moving the shock to back, if your not confident of drilling a new hole for the shock then Chris option would be better, but TBH its fairly easy to do new hole, but it could go wrong lol!

What i did originally a while ago if you do wish to shorten the wheel base is, on the wishbone there are 2 plastics bits either side, one about 2mm i have sanded this off to move wishbone forward then put a 2mm kwick klip in the back!

[Chrislong]

I ran mine today (with other mods), and it felt really good. It felt better than my unmodified Cat by far, but I was struggling for power as I was running some lower power Lipo's than usual.... so I need to run it again with something with some bang in them.

The track today had some areas where traction was low, and the car squirmed on power, just like the std car did. But watching Nathan Waters and he clearly got the power down and made less of a deal about it.

So I reckon the mod using the Schumacher option parts is the way to go. Then trim 2mm off the rear of the flipped wishbones to recover a little bit of length in the wheelbase - just like Pupton said.

The driveshaft sweep will stiffen up the suspension on power, as the dogbone naturally wants to run straight at speed. So on acceleration it will stop the rear from squating, and drive the tyres into the ground creating some mechanical additional grip. At constant high speed, say on the straight, it will make the back end bob about. Could just balance this by softening the shocks..... but..... by putting the shocks on the back with the shift of weight etc, the shocks in theory should be a shade harder - so by not changing them atall we may be counter acting the driveshaft sweep effect...

Trial and error...... thats how I work, just try to learn from it... :lol: (so I can ask you when I forget)

[Jonesy]

I'm still not convinced by the mod. I ran mine as per kit standrad today at Blyth and finsihed 3rd and not that far of Nathan, I also did qualify as the highest placed CAT (in the Non-Regiona).

I honestly believe it comes down to driving style. I'm not that aggresive and fairly smooth, due to this I don't believe it will have an effect.

I will of course be trying the mod but it will be the next time I have a 'free fun' meeting.

[Mossy]

Agree with Chris about runnin a touch harder. I ran 30wt on 3 holes in the rear at Oswestry, which is 5wt harder than i normally run. Movin the shocks out to the back will allow you to run stiffer oils due to shiftin the weight of the rear end.

Si

[Carlos69]

I also agree with the suggestion that it's the volume of the shocks that need looking at, I personally think the kit shocks are crap :thumbdown:
+ 1 ..

[discostu]

hey mark here are the pics ive alterd the shock tower mountings since wednesday i think you will agree this is better.

stu

[MHeadling]

Looks sweet Stu! Iv done my one today, if I can figure out how to post pics I will! I have drilled arms and left wishbones and mounts as they are.The garden test seemed better, Wednesday will be the proof!

[MHeadling]

This is how I did my rear shock mod: I used long M3 bolts and a damper tube from an AE L4 12th car drilled out to act as a spacer for the shock tower, shock mounts are std and a re drilled the arms. Since this photo I have fitted the Sch SWB kit.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/671/ebay005l.th.jpg[/url][/IMG]

[restimax]

and this is me


http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9340/18062009092.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/18062009092.jpg/)

[Chrislong]

Guys, both of you need to note, if there is not enough surface area between the tower and the mount (the spacing) then the screw will bend very easily. Being spaced back it'll have more leverage, so you need something to spread the load.

I have now fitted the Schumacher kit, and it feels great. I have gone with the short wheelbase rather than trimming the wishbones atall to get it back, and it feels really good... but it also felt really good the way I did it before, and before that - it still felt really good with shock on the front. LOL

[stefke]

I ran mine with the Schum kit yesterday on a rather bumpy hard packed clay track.

I first tried the kit layout (front shocks), then shocks at the rear with drilled arms and finally the Schumacher kit.

I felt little difference between the kit layout and the drilled arms rear shock mod. The rear shocks felt a little grippier but nothing major.
As usual, the CAT drove like it always does on slippery or bumpy tracks as a really pronounced "front end car", with the rear drivetrain sometimes a little "lost" in the proces (if you know what i mean).

Mounting the Schum kit and swapping the rear arms made one hell of a difference. Suddenly the rear end felt rock solid. It generated so much more grip, i had to change a lot on my setup to get enough front end bite to compensate. :D

Is it better ? I don't think it's actullay much faster on a single lap, but it certainly makes the car a lot safer/easier to push hard on bumpy, slippery surfaces and that's always a good thing.

[discostu]

im assuming you are talking about shotning the wheel base and mounting schu kit

[Chrislong]

I think that is what I felt too at EPR, but I have also moved the weight far more rearward in my chassis.... and it feels soooooo much more pushable.

[Carlos69]

I have also moved the weight far more rearward in my chassis.... .
How ? (apart from the SWB change and rear mounted shocks)

[Chrislong]

By making my own Saddle Lipo chassis out of the Schumacher stiff chassis, and making a Brass Lipo retaining brace which hold the rear 1/3rd of the cells. My weight bias is now 57% to rear, it was 54% before.

[Carlos69]

Would be interested to see some pics Chris

[Carlos69]

....

[MHeadling]

Myself and Spud31 ran the Sch SWB kit last night indoors at Faversham (polished wood floor) , Rich seemed to like it but I found it very snappy and tail happy to drive, put it back to normal wheel base now.

[Garry Spice]

Myself and Spud31 ran the Sch SWB kit last night indoors at Faversham (polished wood floor) , Rich seemed to like it but I found it very snappy and tail happy to drive, put it back to normal wheel base now.
aye,thats what i found mark.i changed my back aswell.

[discostu]

aye,thats what i found mark.i changed my back aswell.

hey gaz did you watch the vid on you tube of faversham watch my cat it doesnt snap or step out of line once.

stu

[stefke]

Just a little warning for those using the mod and using extra droop and 3°+ rear toe-in on the CAT : keep an eye on your driveshaft seating in the outdrives. I had mine pop out during our nationals last weekend.

Shimming the driveshafts proved enough to remedie the situation.

[PaulUpton]

To try and help you guys doing the mod, I found that with the suspention on the rear this gave the car alot more weight transfer, and with the long ball joints on the shocks this made the rear loose on entry into the corner and the front push out the corner, now having gone back to the short the ball joints this has stopped both these problems, hope this helps!

[bender]

Now that there are a few of us running the SX at my local low-grip dirt track, we are finally starting to improve the car for Aussie conditions. My car was handling and jumping very well, with the rear shock mod fitted for the first time.

However, I'm still not convinced that its effect is that great, and I believe that the mods greatest grip improvement comes from the sweep of the drive shafts, rather than the ballast difference by having the shocks out the back.

I've done a few calculations and discovered that moving the shocks to the back is only moving around 2.5% of the mass back approx 6.7% and moves the wing back only 3.2%. How much this contributes to improving grip is debatable, especially as my own car was never really lacking in grip to start with.

The biggest improvement in my car has been the fitting of Tamiya shocks from the 501x, which certainly improved the cars handling over the bumps.

Next meeting I will be trying something else, running the shocks at the front of the arm again, but modifying the arms so that the wheelbase is reduced a further 2-3mm from the kit "short" position. This should result in a similar wheelbase and driveshaft sweep compared to reversing the arms, but still allows the shocks to be in their original locations.

The next step is to try and get the motor as far back as possible. I'm switching to the 80t spur for the next meeting but it would be better if Schumacher made down to a 75t spur I think, though perhaps it would be difficult to get the right ratios with some of the hotter mod motors.

[Chrislong]

Im using a 78tooth Losi spur on mine - for motor position. Any smaller and I can't mesh the pinion.

Im on 78/23 on a 5.5 Speed Passion.

I am using the car as standard, I felt the driveshaft angle locked the shocks on power not allowing them to absorb bumps - felt very skitty to me... I tried several ways of doing it, and it was at no point better than the std mounting position.

[B&H Racing]

Chris - Any mods to fit a on a Losi Spur Gear ?

[mikeyscott]

hey mark here are the pics ive alterd the shock tower mountings since wednesday i think you will agree this is better.

stu

Did you change anything else?

Also is that a Tekin RS Pro in the car?

[bender]

Im using a 78tooth Losi spur on mine - for motor position. Any smaller and I can't mesh the pinion.

Yep, unfortunately I've just discovered that - with the 80t spur I can't go smaller than a 21 or 22 pinion by the looks of it:(
I probably should've checked a bit more thoroughly before buying the gear :blush:

[Chrislong]

Chris - Any mods to fit a on a Losi Spur Gear ?

Yeh, I reemed out the hole to match the layshaft bushing. be careful to get it bang on central.

Ideally, we need layshafts turned down to suit the spur - know anybody with a lathe?

Chris

[Chrislong]

Yep, unfortunately I've just discovered that - with the 80t spur I can't go smaller than a 21 or 22 pinion by the looks of it:(
I probably should've checked a bit more thoroughly before buying the gear :blush:

What motor are you using, you may be undergeared? I wouldn't gear even my fastest 5.5 motor that low. Im gearing it on 78/23. but don't forget - we can change the idler gears and thats what I will do if I need to. ;)

[jim76]

Yeh, I reemed out the hole to match the layshaft bushing. be careful to get it bang on central.

Ideally, we need layshafts turned down to suit the spur - know anybody with a lathe?

Chris

My old man has a workshop full of them. I'm seeing him this weekend so may take my cat down to show him and see what he says. What size do you need them taking down to?

[discostu]

Now that there are a few of us running the SX at my local low-grip dirt track, we are finally starting to improve the car for Aussie conditions. My car was handling and jumping very well, with the rear shock mod fitted for the first time.

However, I'm still not convinced that its effect is that great, and I believe that the mods greatest grip improvement comes from the sweep of the drive shafts, rather than the ballast difference by having the shocks out the back.

I've done a few calculations and discovered that moving the shocks to the back is only moving around 2.5% of the mass back approx 6.7% and moves the wing back only 3.2%. How much this contributes to improving grip is debatable, especially as my own car was never really lacking in grip to start with.

The biggest improvement in my car has been the fitting of Tamiya shocks from the 501x, which certainly improved the cars handling over the bumps.

Next meeting I will be trying something else, running the shocks at the front of the arm again, but modifying the arms so that the wheelbase is reduced a further 2-3mm from the kit "short" position. This should result in a similar wheelbase and driveshaft sweep compared to reversing the arms, but still allows the shocks to be in their original locations.

The next step is to try and get the motor as far back as possible. I'm switching to the 80t spur for the next meeting but it would be better if Schumacher made down to a 75t spur I think, though perhaps it would be difficult to get the right ratios with some of the hotter mod motors.

i can see were your coming from with the percentages moving the shocks behind, have you calculated the diffrence in force that loads up the rear shocks under acceleration having extra mass at the rear when the car accelerates it should create more rear load thus better rear traction assuming the shocks are setup correctly and anti squat plus every thing else that contributes to setup but as like for like test it should genarate more rear traction.

stu rand

[mw02veg]

Yeh, I reemed out the hole to match the layshaft bushing. be careful to get it bang on central.

Ideally, we need layshafts turned down to suit the spur - know anybody with a lathe?

Chris

Les Orbell from Mr'O' foams has turned grant's down so we can now fit associated spurs on.

[Chrislong]

My old man has a workshop full of them. I'm seeing him this weekend so may take my cat down to show him and see what he says. What size do you need them taking down to?

I don't know sorry dude, the size of the hole on a AE or Losi spur if you have one to measure.

[MattADH]

As Mike Williams says, Dave Orbell (son of Mr O Foams) turned some down for a few of us and I still have a spare in my glove box! Not sure of size but I think Dave has done enough to do it from memory!

I am still using the original Schumacher spur gear that I got with the car without issue but have the option of using AE/TL spurs if necessary...