Shock set up

[carlin]

Hi Guys,

How do we get these shocks set right

Cause i just cant get these to feel right at all wasnt happy with the car at all.
Last night i had few guys look at the car they even commented how dead it felt.

I had the following setup

2 piston front standard 40wt
3 piston rear standard 35wt

when you push the car down the movement was in my terms dead.
Tim & Sime know what I'm talking about.

I did have few handling issues with the car, thought it could be the issue down to the shocks.
I'm hoping to get the shock drilled out 1.3 front & 1.4 rear's before the weekend

I'm currently running same setup from Adam for Mansfield apart from the shocks

When on power mid corner the rear end keeps braking away, feels like it's over driving the front or pushing.
I know for start the motor is just to much for the car so I'm going to put 7.5 or 8.5 in it cause just to much 6.5 for my driving now.

Do you think it's just the shocks that's causing the issue.

How do you guys actually build your shocks

This is how I do mine

Fill with oil, use the pump to remove bubbles etc
Leave for 20mins & then place the cap on without the screw in the bleed hole. Push the shock in slowly & then apply the screw.
They feels ok then you put them in the car feels bag of S@!t, I myself never been good building these type of shocks.
Is this the method how all usually do this or am i doing it wrong?

[Adam Skelding]

Shocks:
1. Boots off and Ball cup off.
2. Fill with oil and move piston up and own a few times.
3. Leave on shock stand until oil is free of bubbles. I've never used a shock pump.
4. Put the cap on with no screw in, screw it on tight.
5. Put on a 3mm spacer over the piston rod and push the piston rod up until the threaded portion is at the bottom of the 3mm spacer.
6. Screw in the bleed screw.
7. Remove 3mm spacer.
8. Boots on and ball cup on.
Job Done..

The 3mm spacer stops the piston clearing the oil when bleeding the shock. If you do this you just drag air stright back into the shock.

Also the 3mm spacer gives you consistency between shocks.

[stuhurley]

Sounds like your oils too heavy too.

I tried 40wt in the front with 2 hole pistons (not drilled) and it was dead. I went to 30wt (not drilled) and it was much better.

People are running 35wt I think, but they have drilled the pistons to 1.3 or even 1.4, so 40wt probably isnt a good starting point.

[Hulk]

Hi Carlin,

40w in the front with 2 hole pistons is way too heavy!

Weve found drilling the 2 hole pistons to 1.3mm using 35 or 40w is the way to go. You also want to drill the rear 3 hole pistons to 1.3 or 1.4mm using 30w.

what other set up are you using in terms of rear toe in, anti-squat, camber ling postitions, springs ect?

[carlin]

Hi Adam/Hulk,

Thanks Adam i will give it ago.

As to the weight oil i just tried it as setup because the indoor track at Mansfield is all carpet flat.
But yeah i do want to drill the holes out but all places round me dont have any bloody 1.3 & 1.4mm drill bits :woot:
Someone one on has kindly sending me some in the post I'm hoping they will turn up before Worksop fingers crossed.

As for setup I'm running excatly same setup apart from shocks to Adam's setup he posted up for Mansfield.
http://www.team-durango.com/pdf/setups/TD102001/DEX410_Mansfield%20Indoors_Adam_Skelding_30_09_200 9.pdf

Thanks

[Hulk]

Think once youve got your shocks sorted you will notice a big improvement.

A few things you could do to cure your problem of the rear end breaking away when pushing the car are:

1. Take off the rear anti-roll bar to give you more rear end grip.
2. Stand the rear shocks more upright by putting them in hole number 2 or 1 on the shock tower. (this will help the car straighten up under power coming out of corners)
3. Put the front shocks in hole number 2 on the front shock tower (this will give you more initial steering but less on power steering, again stopping the front end from rolling midway through a corner and pulling the back end round).
4. also make sure you have three degree toe in on the rear, any less than this can make the car feel loose especially at the rear.

Set ups are about personal preference but these tips should help sort out your problem. :thumbsup:

Craig

[trap121]

I just finished building my shocks and Im having problems with the rear ones. I built them just like adam described in this thread. When I pull the arm down to but the ball up on the shock shaft gets sucked back up into the shock. Not all the way but enough to notice.

Did I miss something?

[ben27111973]

I just finished building my shocks and Im having problems with the rear ones. I built them just like adam described in this thread. When I pull the arm down to but the ball up on the shock shaft gets sucked back up into the shock. Not all the way but enough to notice.

Did I miss something?

rebleed the a little more. they are pressurised currently.

[ben27111973]

the shock boots which I have had on the car for 25 runs work perfect!!!

oil I just emptied out was as clear as it went in. no grit or dirt in there at all :)

[mark christopher]

rebleed the a little more. they are pressurised currently.
ben if it was under pressure the shock shaft would not suck back up but push out!!

[Rich D]

I just finished building my shocks and Im having problems with the rear ones. I built them just like adam described in this thread. When I pull the arm down to but the ball up on the shock shaft gets sucked back up into the shock. Not all the way but enough to notice.

Did I miss something?


My guess would be that your pulling the shaft out faster than the oil can flow through the holes in the piston thats all. Thats how the damper is designed to work. It "dampens" the up and down movement of the wishbone.

Adams advice sounds like a logical and consistent way of building shocks. If you have done it this way to the letter then i cant see that you have done anything wrong.

[mark christopher]

too little oil or too much air would do it, when u pull out the shock shaft it will create an internal vaccum pulling the shaft back in

[carlin]

Well i've gone by what Adam has said too.

i've drilled the fronts to 1.3/2holes 40wt & 1.4/3holes rear 35wt.

Mine also when you pull out the shock shaft they pull back half way into the shocks.
I guess i've done them wrong again????

But do feel better on the car compared to when i built them :(

[mark christopher]

mine do but im using em like that

[HyperFX]

mine do but im using em like that
The shocks "suck" because you built them correctly.
When assembling the shocks, at the point you seal them with the bleeder, the pressure/vacuum in the shock is "neutral". From that "neutral" position, when the shaft travels into the body it becomes pressurized. From "neutral", when the shaft travels out of the body it creates a vacuum. All normal for a shock of this design. If there is no vacuum, you did it wrong. If there is too much pressure, you did it wrong. The shaft must travel into the body (compress) until it bottoms, without becoming stiff. It must also travel outward (rebound) the full stroke without becoming stiff.
You're all building the shocks correctly, now go kick some offroad azz! :thumbsup:

[mark christopher]

too little oil or too much air would do it, when u pull out the shock shaft it will create an internal vaccum pulling the shaft back in


The shocks "suck" because you built them correctly.
When assembling the shocks, at the point you seal them with the bleeder, the pressure/vacuum in the shock is "neutral". From that "neutral" position, when the shaft travels into the body it becomes pressurized. From "neutral", when the shaft travels out of the body it creates a vacuum. All normal for a shock of this design. If there is no vacuum, you did it wrong. If there is too much pressure, you did it wrong. The shaft must travel into the body (compress) until it bottoms, without becoming stiff. It must also travel outward (rebound) the full stroke without becoming stiff.
You're all building the shocks correctly, now go kick some offroad azz! :thumbsup:

not if you want rebound on your shocks ;) which is hard to achieve on emuslion shocks, the bladder type are better for rebound.

[trap121]

My rear end feels really stiff and bounces around causing a lot of trouble while driving. I have it set up to the stock nats on TD's page. I drilled the front shocks to 1.3 using 35wt and rear 1.4 using 30 wt. Silver springs in the rear.

The track is outdoor rough hard clay with some big jumps.

Can you guys point me in the right direction?

Thanks

[JohnnyB]

Hi guys, just finished building my dex410 and was looking through some setup sheets and I noticed some drivers place a 2mm spacer on the inside of the fromt dampers. Is it being placed on the inside of the shockbody on the shockshaft under the piston, or on the outside of the damper shockshaft to limit compression?? Can someone please help me out on this one?

The car is an awesome piece of design and loved building it btw. :thumbsup:

[AmiSMB]

I would expect it is on the shock shaft up against the shock piston so that t stops upward travel of the front end. I remember doing this to the X-5 with small springs and with hard plastic spacers in the rear.

[HyperFX]

Hi guys, just finished building my dex410 and was looking through some setup sheets and I noticed some drivers place a 2mm spacer on the inside of the fromt dampers. Is it being placed on the inside of the shockbody on the shockshaft under the piston, or on the outside of the damper shockshaft to limit compression?? Can someone please help me out on this one?

The car is an awesome piece of design and loved building it btw. :thumbsup:

They are internal limiters, to limit rebound travel.

[MALLET]

They are internal limiters, to limit rebound travel.

I would have thought you droop screws would do that.

I couldn't understand why people was doing this when you have droop screws. Like the other kits that don't have the droop screws you would need to put a shim in to restrict the droop.

[Northy]

I would have thought you droop screws would do that.

I couldn't understand why people was doing this when you have droop screws. Like the other kits that don't have the droop screws you would need to put a shim in to restrict the droop.

No droop screws on the front ;)

G

[MALLET]

aye :blush:

[JohnnyB]

So I understand the spacer is placed purely for droop reasons. Thanks for the help guys. :D

[trap121]

My rear end feels really stiff and bounces around causing a lot of trouble while driving. I have it set up to the stock nats on TD's page. I drilled the front shocks to 1.3 using 35wt and rear 1.4 using 30 wt. Silver springs in the rear.

The track is outdoor rough hard clay with some big jumps.

Can you guys point me in the right direction?

Thanks

If I went to softer oil would it smooth it out or make it more bouncy?

[discostu]

shock oil and piston are all relative to what springs lb you are using for example heavy oil small piston would need a stiffer spring lighter oil big pistons would need a lighter spring and dont forget the point from the lower arm and shock tower this will also effect how springingy or dead the shocks feel.

[trap121]

I'm new to the setup side of things so its kinda confusing.

My rear is drilled to 1.4 and I have 30wt with silver springs. Outside on shock tower and middle on arm.

What should I do to settle the rear end down and gain traction????

Thanks:)

[mark christopher]

uk drivers seem to be using light green or light blue rear springs, sure silver are harder which would make it bounce

[trap121]

uk drivers seem to be using light green or light blue rear springs, sure silver are harder which would make it bounce

I thought the silver ones were the softest??

Is this chart not right?

http://www.petitrc.com/setup/durango/setupdex410/DEX410_SpringChart.html

[Northy]

You need to give us more info about the 'bouncing'.

It could be kicking up because it's too hard - unlikely with the set-up you have.

Or...

It could be hitting the floor and bouncing back up because of that - more likely with your set-up imho.

You can check the above by getting a friend to watch it closely along a section of track and also put some tape on the back of the chassis as an indicator to it hitting the floor.


Did you say it feels 'really stiff'? :confused: It shouldn't do with the set-up you've posted, is it built right? Do the wishbones drop under their own weight? :confused: Perhaps that is the problem. Make sure NOTHING binds at all in the suspension without the shocks fitted.

G

[trap121]

You need to give us more info about the 'bouncing'.

It could be kicking up because it's too hard - unlikely with the set-up you have.

Or...

It could be hitting the floor and bouncing back up because of that - more likely with your set-up imho.

You can check the above by getting a friend to watch it closely along a section of track and also put some tape on the back of the chassis as an indicator to it hitting the floor.


Did you say it feels 'really stiff'? :confused: It shouldn't do with the set-up you've posted, is it built right? Do the wishbones drop under their own weight? :confused: Perhaps that is the problem. Make sure NOTHING binds at all in the suspension without the shocks fitted.

G

By stiff I meant it looks like the rear end is not absorbing any bumps. But then again, it may be absorbing all of them and slapping the ground like you mentioned.

Once the rain stops I will get to the track and have someone watch.

I'll keep you posted

[Northy]

OK, I understand now, let us know.

Try the tape thing too ;)

G

[mark christopher]

i was going on memory of chart knew grey was soft as you said silver figured they were higher up., as northy my guess is ur grounding out on the track, like a pogo stick, should not feel hard tho?

[offroadrc]

i ran my durango on a very ruff track, i had some problems with the rear of the car, it was bouncing like crazy.

setup, 3 hole piston light blue or the grey spring and 25 oil the piston is not drilled out. the front was okey 2 hole piston black spring 30 oil.

[Diesel]

Did you put the rear balast ?

I had this problem of rear bouncing with the box setup.

It was much better when I had put light green spring, 3 hole pistons (not drilled),25 AE oil and the rear balast. On lap time the car was the fastest (when the best pilot of the race tried it !:blush:)

[mark79]

i made a bit of an arse bleeding the shocks the first time and the car behaved like you've explained.
Turns out there was way too much rebound in the shocks as if they were pressurised. I followed Mr Skeldings tips on shock building on another thread and things were way better after that. I was using heavier springs on the back though (light green with d.blue up front)