Major understeer

[ashleyb4]

At the weekend at oswestry i had major understeer. Which was a bit of a pain. Im running the following setup as advised my Phil Sleigh
http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/autoonline/eknowledge/esetupsheets/exx4we1.jpg

So can any one sugest a way to reduce understeer. I had enought steering entering the corner but coming out of it i was really strugerling. Especially on the 2nd corner and the last. Even when i went slow i still stuggled to get it round.

A

[Wraggy]

ash whats tyres were you running ??
and from what i saw , your car was way to fast for you (sorry) but you need to slow it down .. and you also seem to have your brakes set to much.

[ashleyb4]

Its not to fast for me. Everyone will now say i will say that but honest it isnt. I was running schumacher mini spikes yellow all round. I was suffering from grip role so cut the outer edge of spikes off. That still didnt stop the grip role then i cut the inner endge off then it stopped grip rolling. But i was getting understeer before i had cut any spikes off.


A

[Wraggy]

But i was getting understeer before i had cut any spikes off.
A

but you were also grip rolling ???? that doesnt make any sense ash.
and sorry it was to fast....

[bigred5765]

how can you have grip roll and under steer

[ashleyb4]

I was pretty quick i reacon i could have got 12 laps there yesterday but i just suffered from silly stuff that happened as this is the first time i have driven the car off road It is having a few problems the reason for not finashing 3 races was due to the fact i didnt know that i needed to glue the steering servo horn style thing on so it doesnt jump as i havent had an issue with this before as the other places i have raced at the track has been more forgiving. Afterwards i was practising it was going ace.

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[ashleyb4]

I solved the grip roll problem but then i had major understeer.

Im confused ive gotmy mum going on.

A

[Wraggy]

I solved the grip roll problem but then i had major understeer.

Im confused ive gotmy mum going on.

A
your confused!!!! so am i ...:eh?:

[super__dan]

I can't see if you were running a one way or not, if not, there's your answer!

[ashleyb4]

The motor wasnt to fast what so ever. I didnt post this post to be grilled about my driving i just had a bad weekend it just annoys me when people dont let you through when your lapping i was taken out twice by a back marker and broke my car. I know i shouldnt moan but it annoys me when i just ask nicely car 6 or what ever im coming though to lap can i have a little room. Then they just turn in on you or go all defensive cus they think your trying to overtake them. I admit the final was a technicall diffculty but round 1 and 4 were because i was taken out while trying to lap a slower car.

A

[Wraggy]

and here's me trying to help !!!!!
i tell you what i wont bother then ...
ash you may think im new at this because ive only been back 6 months but 14 years ago i had raced for 7 years or more before then and wasnt that bad if you ask certain people..

[Northy]

I guess this is called 'power on understeer' and yes, it is possible to have this and grip roll aswell. :)

G

[ashleyb4]

I know your an exsperianced racer paul and yes i do apreciate all help off everyone. And im not saying your not that good. I just dont find that motor to quick for me. I know your a very good driver by your results. And im sorry if i upset you i do apreciate your help paul your a top bloke but i just didnt find that motor to quick for me.

A

[ashleyb4]

And i do agree paul my brakes are set abit high i just wasnt sure what to set them to so i set them to stock.

A

[Lew]

May I ask, Did you try slowing down for the corners? ....

[ashleyb4]

Yes

A

[ashleyb4]

I can't see if you were running a one way or not, if not, there's your answer!

IM running the one way clicker if that counts but no im not running a proper one way diff.

A

[Lew]

I use a one way clicker and its fine for steering, unless i have completely shagged front tyres, and great rears... Otherwise I have no problem... This question is directed at every1... or whatever... Will their be any differance with using a One way? to either a clicker.. or standard...?

[Southwell]

Yeah a one way gives you more turn in but only rear braking so you can kick the tail out easily.
A clicker would give you more resistance on braking so is prob more stable although i never ran the clicker so cant comment on that properly.
A diff makes the car really stable on braking and you can whack them on but the turn in wont be very electric, which i prefere.

[PaulRotheram]

Sorry to bring up the speed thing again.. it is possible for a car to be too quick and give you less steering.. if the car is quick enough to fully unload the front shocks on power then there is no weight on the front to give steering.

Try going around the corner with no throttle or breaks.. just glide and see if you have problems then. if so.. it may well be the speed. if not then somthing else needs to be changed.

[ashleyb4]

Its very odd because certain corners i was fine but corner 2 wasnt that tight and i was strugerling around it but the next corner was tighter and i didnt have a problem. I just didnt seem to have to lockeven when i was going slow i strugled.

A

[Southwell]

If you drive too fast into a corner then it will tend to push wide, if you have uber grip ull just grip roll. The idea is to brake and turn tight, then you can get on the power quickly as you arn't miles off line.

[rich_cree]

Could be the steering horn (not one on servo, the other one), they can be a bit soft

[Southwell]

Id also check the servo throw each side.

[ashleyb4]

I treid it slow but i still wasnt any where near the racing line you could have driven two cars side by side up the inside of me. Which i wouldnt have minded normaly but there was a piece of pipe straight afterwards. Ill draw you a pic.

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[Wraggy]

Its very odd because certain corners i was fine but corner 2 wasnt that tight and i was strugerling around it but the next corner was tighter and i didnt have a problem. I just didnt seem to have to lockeven when i was going slow i strugled.

A
remember ash the 2nd corner was coming off from tarmac to grass and the speed carried was a lot more..

[ashleyb4]

Im the blue line the black is what most other people where doing
http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8365/cornerea7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

A

[ashleyb4]

My steering goes full left and full right all the way .

A

[ashleyb4]

I think ill just have to try and slow it down even more into there and see how it goes.

A

[bigred5765]

looks like ur carrying to much speed into the corner

[Lew]

Thanks southwell. Wonder'd that for a long while.

[losixxx]

ashley, we were watching your car in the final, the only thing wrong with it was you were going into most corners far to fast, especially the corner you say you were having problems with, every lap was the same way to much speed into the corner then try an brake but to late. the only set-up i would change is move the front shocks on the tower out one hole and 35 weight oil in front.
but biggest change i would make if i was you is slow down=less crashing=faster overall time.
i ran my old cells to calm my xx4 down, went up a pinion to normal was one of the slowest cars on the track on the straight but because i didnt crash as the car was drivable i had a good day

[Swiss]

Ash

Looking at that set up, I would suggest the following things;

1. Go up 5wt oil in the rear shocks.
2. Lengthen the front camber link, (so instead of putting it on the middle hole on the shock tower put it on the inner).
3. Regarding speed, well I didn't see your car, but if overgeared you will kill all the bottom end, and find that the power kicks in later on the throttle curve causing the car to accelerate mid corner... which can cause overshooting problems?? But to be perfectly honest, I would try no. 1 and no. 2 first.... Because if the speed feels right for you then it is..

Also regarding throw on the steering, you should always set your steering throw so that it is over the mechanical end stops... approx. 5-10%

[Southwell]

Also regarding throw on the steering, you should always set your steering throw so that it is over the mechanical end stops... approx. 5-10%

Explain? If you set it over the actual range that the steering can go then you will have a smooth action until the last bit when it will just flick instead of being smooth, you are also putting extra strain on the servo.
The only reason i can think of doing this is to keep the wheels at full lock when at speed, if you need to do this then i would say your servo isn't strong enough.

[Swiss]

However strong the servo is there is still back lash in the steering parts. I totally agree the reason for this, is becuase on power the front wheels naturally want to straighten, and haven that bit of excess will assure you can keep the car in the corner on power..... Basically set it up so the last little bit o movement on your sticks, is effectively like a dead band which the wheels have reached full lock, but as mentioned earlier will make sure when you are on power you can keep the wheels at full lock...

[ashleyb4]

I think i need to slow it down a bit im so used to 2wd i can normally throw it in the pretty fast.

A

[BenG]

I think i need to slow it down a bit im so used to 2wd i can normally throw it in the pretty fast.

A

Yeah Ash slow down. Think smooth too. Smoother driving is much better on parts, and keeps you calm. You don't need to chuck a 4wd into corners, as it's got 2 more driven wheels.....

I always find, a smooth driver is much better than a ragged driver, as it gives you more time to avoid mistakes e.t.c ;)

But, if you want to be ragged and turn lots, increase the percentage of steering response ( How quickly it turns ).

In a touring car, I have about 60% on carpet, sometimes less due to a open track e.t.c

In a buggy I have it at 50% I think.

[Swiss]

Yeah Ash slow down. Think smooth too. Smoother driving is much better on parts, and keeps you calm. You don't need to chuck a 4wd into corners, as it's got 2 more driven wheels.....

I always find, a smooth driver is much better than a ragged driver, as it gives you more time to avoid mistakes e.t.c ;)

But, if you want to be ragged and turn lots, increase the percentage of steering response ( How quickly it turns ).

In a touring car, I have about 60% on carpet, sometimes less due to a open track e.t.c

In a buggy I have it at 50% I think.

Winding up the steering response will only make it 'feel' differant, it doesn't give you more steering? Problem is if you are winding up the steering response that much, (I presume you mean +50%) all the steering will be round the centre..... meaning on sweepers, it will be hard to control the amount of steering you are feeding in.....

[BenG]

Winding up the steering response will only make it 'feel' differant, it doesn't give you more steering? Problem is if you are winding up the steering response that much, (I presume you mean +50%) all the steering will be round the centre..... meaning on sweepers, it will be hard to control the amount of steering you are feeding in.....

No, but it will turn 'faster' so you can 'throw' it at corners more;)

[Lee]

Lovin the pic ash but to me it looks like your turning after the corner, slow down and make sure you hit the apex!!

Slow is fast:o ;)

[Swiss]

No, but it will turn 'faster' so you can 'throw' it at corners more;)

It won't actually turn faster, all it will do is turn more for less movement on the sticks!

[Gaz_Stanton]

Ash, When i drove your car afterwards it was fine and i was able to get it tight on the corner you have drawn.
I didn't see much of your actual racing but would guess you need to work on the corner speed. The corner you mention required you to brake at the end of a high speed tarmac straight. I expect you were locking up the tyres there and not taking off as much speed as you were able to on other corners that were grass in the braking zone. This is especially true as you wern't running a one-way, as locking up the front tyres would definitely give you understeer.
So to solve: - :cool:
1) Brake earlier and more progressively on tarmac leading up to that corner.
2) Fit front one-way.

[Lew]

Lovin the pic ash but to me it looks like your turning after the corner, slow down and make sure you hit the apex!!

Slow is fast:o ;)

Just have to comment, My dad usually says things similar to that, but i disagree and it turns into a Sqwoble, but yeah, i dont think thats entirely true tbh...

Also, ash, I know this is completely off topic.. You said to check back in a few days for your site, and it still isn't up.. you might need to change that =]

[ashleyb4]

OK thanks for all your help And i do apreatiate the slo is fast bit I sometimes when i have a bad day just forget some stuff. Stu evans and Graham North tought me that in southport in january. I did alot better to.

I know i watched you garath and i was like how did you do that ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????????????
:o

But i plan on running the xx4 on thursday again just to get some track time in with it so ill sorta coasting into the corner. instead of breaking at the last minute.

A

[Col]

Also regarding throw on the steering, you should always set your steering throw so that it is over the mechanical end stops... approx. 5-10%

This seems like a guaranteed way to break the steering bellcrank...

[Swiss]

Only broken one in the 2years been running the car.........

[markwilliamson2001]

Seems to me to a be a problem with driver not car, but if you are quite a recent beginner and from your comments it seems like this is the truth, then you need to slow your car down big time!!

If gareth can drive your car on the proper line, then it seems you do not have 'massive understeer', you are driving it like a novice touring car driver would do -

i.e. chuck the car in with loads of throttle and 'CRANK' the steering over full lock at the same time. In off-road with the variation of surface, grip levels etc you need to drive with less power on tarmac etc...

I saw someone at my local club with a 2wd buggy have understeer and grip roll doing the same thing.... too much power for a beginner and poor driving style. I am sorry but you need to build up to a faster motor as your skills improve.

My 2 pence
M.

[elvo]

This Major Understeer, is he higher or lower in rank than Captain Oversteer?
And, is he at all related to General Failure (who occasionally reaeds my hard drive) or Major Disaster?

[Fiddybux]

Not forgetting of course, Corporal Punishment, or for the musically inclined, General MIDI.

[ashleyb4]

Seems to me to a be a problem with driver not car, but if you are quite a recent beginner and from your comments it seems like this is the truth, then you need to slow your car down big time!!

If gareth can drive your car on the proper line, then it seems you do not have 'massive understeer', you are driving it like a novice touring car driver would do -

i.e. chuck the car in with loads of throttle and 'CRANK' the steering over full lock at the same time. In off-road with the variation of surface, grip levels etc you need to drive with less power on tarmac etc...

I saw someone at my local club with a 2wd buggy have understeer and grip roll doing the same thing.... too much power for a beginner and poor driving style. I am sorry but you need to build up to a faster motor as your skills improve.

My 2 pence
M.

Ive been racing about 2 1/2 years i can get the corner fine in 2wd but i have been strugerling in 4wd. I raced the xx4 last thursday and i managed to get it round on the racing line most of the time. The breaks on the nosram speedo seem to be like on and off no in the middle.

A

[Southwell]

Reset the speedo then....

[Spencer Mulcahy]

Don't worry about it to much ash if you are getting the same line very lap then you are consistant get the consistancy right then you can get racing line after. (That blue line is how I take most corners you could get a real car down the inside of my lines :) :) )