Mid East AGM

[CharlieF]

Hi ALL.

Given that Jim Balls is standing down as our rep after three good years in charge I thought it best to throw the issue of electing a new rep open to all interested parties (having a BRCA membership). Accordingly a Regional AGM has been arranged at short notice for Saturday 28th November from 10am to 12 noon at Christchurch, St Peters Hill, Castlegate, GRANTHAM, NG31 6TA (hired room).

All Mid East BRCA members are welcome to attend and I am hoping Jim can make it to hand over formally to the new Regional rep.

The agenda for the meeting will be roughly as follows:
1. Introductions and outline of Regional Reps role.
2. Nominations for the Regional Rep post.
3. Election of new Regional rep.
4. Proposal to run nominated tyres for 2010 Regional Series.
5. Proposal to run 3 legged "A" Finals at all Regionals in 2010.
6. Any other business.

I hope members from all clubs in the region can support this centrally located meeting as it is important to the future and ongoing development of the MID EAST REGION which has seen such a positive return to 1/10th Off-Road racing over the last two highly successful years.

I will be on hand to officiate/help/clarify the meeting process to the best of my ability.
Regards
Charlie Fraser
Sec. BRCA 1/10th Off-Road Section.

[dbizzle5]

Good idea charlie!:thumbsup: Am liking the 3 legged A Finals!

[wes]

More go's for you to knock me and robbo off?:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[dbizzle5]

More go's for you to knock me and robbo off?:thumbsup::thumbsup:

exactly! Ill have lots of times this weekend aswell!!:p

[Alan]

From a race directors point of view, 3 legged a finals are not easy (may be not even possible?) with RC timing. It would definitely create a lot of work for the race director on the day, running rc timing. Can't comment on BBK as we don't run it. Would the region care to buy BBK and provide race directors etc for each round?

Just my thoughts as someone who may be left to sort them out on the day!!

Alan

[CharlieF]

Hi Alan.

I could never claim to be an authority on timing systems but other regions eg MID WEST always run 3 leg A's with all sorts of different systems. I will seek advice from someone.
Regards.

[Alan]

I have emailed the author of RC timing to see if it is possible or not. I have had a good look, and can't find any way of doing 3 legged a finals but I have often been proved wrong!. Perhaps there is a free program that can do this? It would be nice to know what solutions the mid west clubs use, just out of curiosity if nothing else!

Alan

[Robbiejuk]

Alan is right you can't do three legged A finals on rc-timing, it is not possible on the 2006 version anyways, might be on the new version but I doubt it. Only way round it would be to have two copies of rc-timing open and filter out the a finalists from the main meeting me thinks, hassle lol.

Would it not be the case that the A finalists would struggle to get charged in time to? It's ok when you have a big attendance but if it's a bit drizzly and people (like danny won't turn up because it is a bit damp) don't turn up attendance is lower resulting in less time between finals. I would love to do three leg Finals though :thumbsup:

[MattW]

3 leg finals used to be very good, I always thought so anyway, when we used to run them in East Anglia. Not ideal if the timing software won't support though, although that does seem like a serious oversight from their point of view. I think BBK has been able to do this for say the last 15 years at least that I know of!! oh well.

[dbizzle5]

It's ok when you have a big attendance but if it's a bit drizzly and people (like danny won't turn up because it is a bit damp) don't turn up attendance is lower resulting in less time between finals. I would love to do three leg Finals though :thumbsup:

you bugger!:blush:

[nottmboy]

of course rc timing would support 3 leg finals for all
and so would i ;)

[RSharpy]

of course rc timing would support 3 leg finals for all

and so would i ;)

Good idea Andy, i'll second that. Although 2 from 4 rounds of qualifying is essential for regionals so it may be a push to fit it in. Possible maybe if there is no practice, straight in at round 1 nice and early :thumbsup:

[dbizzle5]

Good idea Andy, i'll second that. Although 2 from 4 rounds of qualifying is essential for regionals so it may be a push to fit it in. Possible maybe if there is no practice, straight in at round 1 nice and early :thumbsup:

straight in at round 1!!!! nice and early!!! what are you talking about! youve lost your marbles kid! there may still be some dew on the grass and get my car dirty!!!:p

[RSharpy]

straight in at round 1!!!! nice and early!!! what are you talking about! youve lost your marbles kid! there may still be some dew on the grass and get my car dirty!!!:pDon't forget you have that little pink brush in your pit box to wipe your car clean. GAY BOY :p:p:p

[CharlieF]

A typical regional day timetable assuming up to 80 drivers should follow the following patern more or less:

Booking in and free practice up until 0945
Drivers Brief - 0945
Round 1 start - 1000
Round 2 start - 1100
Round 3 start - 1200
Round 4 start - 1300
First A final start - 1440
H - E finals start - 1450
Second A final start - 1525
D - B finals start - 1535
Third A final start - 1605
Meeting closed - 1620.

I believe it only gets difficult when more than 8 heats per hour is necessary. Is the regional asperation to exceed 80 drivers at each event in 2010 - great if it is?

[Alan]

What about having 4 qualifying rounds and 2 finals for all and only having one round of practice.

Then, you could count each final as a seperate result and have 5 from 8 count for the championship. Seems a lot fairer that all drivers get more track time and not just the A finalists. It also meens that A finalists won't have to race, marshall have 5-10 mins car maintenance time and then race again. Rather rushed I feel?

Alan

[Darrane]

I must say i agree with Alan on this one i think four or even three qualifiers is ample then have multi leg finals for everyone then the software problem does not become an issue.That is if you are going to change it but also with the great attendance on this years regional i think the most popular, by far if it aint broke don't fix it comes to mind.
If you are going to change the program then make it fair we all pay the same money and it must be multi finals for all not just the best drivers
but we will be at the AGM so these points can be discussed further
Thanks Darran

[RSharpy]

What about having 4 qualifying rounds and 2 finals for all and only having one round of practice.

Then, you could count each final as a seperate result and have 5 from 8 count for the championship. Seems a lot fairer that all drivers get more track time and not just the A finalists. It also meens that A finalists won't have to race, marshall have 5-10 mins car maintenance time and then race again. Rather rushed I feel?

AlanSounds intresting Al, is that touring car stylie? I've always been a fan of having points for qualifying though, think it means more than finals, could have 9 from 12 :D

Also another one to throw in the mix is the possibility of having 5 rounds in the championship............ I'd extend the hall hire Charlie :lol:

[Garry]

I know its not part of the region in terms of being a BRCA class, but is it possible to discuss putting on one heat for short course trucks? I know they could be hosted outside of that day's main class (like 2wd buggies on a 4wd day), but I don't know of many organised series allowing them outdoors so Mid East could be a trailblazer. And I'm aware some turned up at the end of 09.

Just the one heat (max of 15 cars to keep things....erm...scale). Same rules as per WB's Winter Series (SCT tyres, 10.5/19t motor limit).

:thumbsup:

[MattW]

2 Finals has to be the worst surely? Maybe it's just me!! I'm not a fan :thumbdown:

It's an option though. One thing I will say, when it was run in touring car, I don't think it was great. It's not "easy" to say who actually won the meeting. It may seem obvious, but i seem to remember it not working out quite like that.

I'm firmly in the 3 leg A finals camp :thumbsup: (if it isn't obvious!). Yes it's elitist, yes it's not fair on everyone over the amount of track time everyone gets, but I think it makes making an A final that little bit more special. That's what I used to think before I'd made A's, something to aim at. Nationals have been that way since I first did them (a long long time ago!).

Shame I can't be there to vote, i'm not in the country that weekend!

[jcb]

We had a similar dispute at the start of 2009 in the East of England Region about how many legs finals should be over. As lower ranked drivers thought it unfair that the top guys should get more track time and have a greater chance of improving on where they qualified, and we all agreed that we tended to prefer racing to qualifying!!

In the end we went for three rounds of qualifying and 3 leg finals for everyone which seemed to work really well as you could run straight through on the hour, without the need for a lengthy break in between qualifying and finals for the A finalists to get ready!!

Just my two pennis worth as I could be joining you lot next season!!

[CharlieF]

In response to both Jonathan and Matt, I agree with Matt in that 3 leg finals will give you a correct meeting winner (as opposed to the TQ man losing because someone else broke his car on lap one of a one leg final), an unfairly compromised score can be dropped in a 3 leg final (ie 2 from 3 to count).
As to the "track time per entry fee" arguement, I have not yet met a "B" Finalist who after the disapointment of not making the "A" Final wished to prolong his agony by having to race more than one final to score points for the champoinship.
Racing is for fun no question and 3 leg A finals may appear elitist but to make an Regional A final is special and requires skill and therefore should be different. After all, all drivers had their chance to make the A Final in qualifying.
As for not being ready in time for the programme I outlined above I believe after the first time they experience it few drivers will not be ready for the second leg of an A Final. A knock on here is that any Mid East driver wishing to progess to National competition standard desparately needs this experience.
Turning to Alan's proposal for two finals following four qualifying heats with 5 rounds to count from 8 for the championship; what if a driver breaks 3 times out of 4 in qualifying and ends up in the Z Final, he would then have to suffer 2 Z Final scores towards the championship - cant see that being popular with competitors.
Having said all of the above I am really pleased to see this level of opinion being expressed and I look forward to the AGM.
Regards.

[MALLET]

What do you think about bump ups?

As the lipo's last a long time now, and its not a long bit of time to change one if need to.I know most people are on lipo's now.

It gives the drivers something to aim for if they have had a bad start.

Could have 10 in a final with +2 to bump up.

Tim.

[Alan]

Some more of my thoughts chaps....

With regard to Charlies thoughts on 4 qual. 2 finals, you said,
"Turning to Alan's proposal for two finals following four qualifying heats with 5 rounds to count from 8 for the championship; what if a driver breaks 3 times out of 4 in qualifying and ends up in the Z Final, he would then have to suffer 2 Z Final scores towards the championship - cant see that being popular with competitors."

If that happens with 4 qualifying and 2 finals then 25% of there regional score will be up the swanny.
If you have 4 qual. and 1 final, and the above happens then also, 25% of your score is also up the creek making a bad day at any regional irrelevant, no matter which system is used.

With the current method of scoring, then you have to have 75% of the scores count towards the championship. With my proposal of 5 scores from 8 then you have 62.5% of your scores going towards the championship so if you did have a really bad day as Charlie describes then it won't affect your overall score as much as 3 from 4.

Also it is very easy to sort out the winner on the day with 2 finals as it has been happening for years in other tournaments.

I think that whatever system we use we can easily get a fair result, but I feel it is important to give everybody a fair crack on the day. It is almost irrelevant what system is used. It will be the same for everybody and so we will all be competing in 'the same ring' so to speak.

I do feel that 3 legged A finals could be a problem with,
1) Time for the A finalists to charge up etc.
2) Time for the A finalists to do any repairs etc.
3) Problems with covering marshall posts 3 times for the A finalists
This is mainly due to the fact that we don't get 120 drivers at regionals, but more like 60 ish, and some of those are doing open classes.

Charlie's timetable looks workable I'll agree, but I'm not sure if I would want to be in the A final with around 10 - 15 minutes to attend to my car 3 times.

I think I favour a system that gives all drivers more track time, either 3 Qual. 3 Finals for 4 Qual. 2 Finals.

Whatever the outcome I'm sure we can make next year much more interesting for all.

Oh, and short course trucks, If enough turn up on the day I don't see why they cannot run. I don't see any reason why they cannot have a championship of their own over the season. The more the merrier for me!

Thanks for reading my thoughts!

Alan

[Robbiejuk]

I would say 1 rd practice, 3 qualy, 3 finals. Championship points to be done as follows. Qualifying would classed as a championship round and finals classed as a round of the championship. So 4 regionals would Be 8 rounds of the championship with 5 rounds to count to overall points.

3 finals for all better as it is not only the top drivers whould could make a national A final, lets not forget the juniors and veterans at the end of season finals which would need to practice getting ready for three a finals to. Plus 7 runs is an awesome amount of racing for the money.

[dbizzle5]

3 qualifiers is POOOOOOOO! :thumbdown:

[RSharpy]

10377

[Alan]

One thing is for sure, having spoke to some of our members, 3 legged a finals is an absolute no go, and that is from both sides of the fence, i.e. possible A finalists and not so possible! This is mainly due to the rushing around they feel they would endure etc.

Also, they like the number of rounds we currently have, and don't want to see the championship spread out with more rounds. 4 of each is enough thanks.

Alan

[RSharpy]

One thing is for sure, having spoke to some of our members, 3 legged a finals is an absolute no go, and that is from both sides of the fence, i.e. possible A finalists and not so possible! This is mainly due to the rushing around they feel they would endure etc.

Also, they like the number of rounds we currently have, and don't want to see the championship spread out with more rounds. 4 of each is enough thanks.

AlanAl, you say you've spoken to some of our members, how many of the 90 or so have you spoken to? do you have a 'fair' repesentation in the way of a majority to make the above comments because you haven't spoken to me about it! :p

3 leg A's are a possibility and like Matt said it gives drivers something to aim at and that special feeling when you make it, they can also be very enjoyable to watch. However the reality is we may have to have a bit of a gap between finals for the A to prepare and volunteer marshalls would be needed. How much actual extra time would it be for the race director? Is this not workable?

3 legs for all would be the Daddy for an enjoyable days racing (if everything go's right for you early on) however I see it as 'risky' running 3 qualifiers in a Championship where you can only drop 1 round.
If you have 2 bad first rounds it would be a long day ahead facing a low final with no way out. Infact i'd abort to the boozer :lol:

4 rounds and 2 finals is an interesting option if the points are seperate and not collective but do we want to run regionals where there is a chance of having no clear winner?

Or we could carry on running 4 + 1. But even with this I don't feel it is the best format again in a Championship where you can only drop 1 round.

Pro's and con's for each, no doubt the results will pan out very simular as previous years which ever format gets voted in.

Also is having 5 rounds not an option? other regions do it and it would certainly lead to a 'fairer' championship being able to drop 2 scores and in turn it would put less pressure on competitors having to complete every round. It will also help if a meeting as to be called off due to bad weather. Two two dayers maybe?....

Anyway me and Dan are going for a pub meal in Grantham after the meeting if anybody would like to join us? :thumbsup:

[Darrane]

I feel 3 qualifiers and 3 finals dropping one from each for all must be the fairer system with maybe one practice, if you get in the A final its still something special regrardless of format.

[Alan]

Just come from our club meeting ( so no Sharpy present:p) and had a show of hands vote for all those interested in regionals next year.

Zero votes for 3 legged a finals. Absolutey nobody thought this was a what they wanted to have in next years regionals.

4 Qual 2 finals had about 75% support from Broxtowe members.

3 Qual 3 finals had no support either.

All however liked the idea of more track time for ALL if the timetable allowed it.

Alan

[Alan]

Is there any other clubs thinking of coming on board this year?

I know Broxtowe is, relatively sure West Bridgford and Holbeach are on board so to speak? It would be nice to have one more at least.
It would be great if any interested clubs could have reps at the meeting as well so we know who they are etc.

Alan

[RSharpy]

Just come from our club meeting ( so no Sharpy present:p) and had a show of hands vote for all those interested in regionals next year.

Zero votes for 3 legged a finals. Absolutey nobody thought this was a what they wanted to have in next years regionals.

4 Qual 2 finals had about 75% support from Broxtowe members.

3 Qual 3 finals had no support either.

All however liked the idea of more track time for ALL if the timetable allowed it.

AlanHaha, yep no Sharpy present, unfortunately I do not own an on road car..... or should that be fortunately :lol:

Interesting opinion poll though Al, what did the other 25% vote for? To go to the Tamiya Euro Cup instead? :lol:

All joking aside though i'm not sure if following TC methods is the way forward, my gut feeling is that we should get our regionals running the same as or at least as close to Off Road Nationals as possible, as Charlie said to get our drivers used to the format for the step up to End Of Seasons and Nationals. So the following changes & format for me-

Chance to drop 2 scores
Controlled tyres (same as Nats)
Referees
3 leg A finals

[Darrane]

We at Leveton are interested in holding a regional next year we just have a problem with our old AMB20 system ie its not digital and as you know most people like using personals.
We have alredy planned the changes for the track with the mind to running a regional round, as for the AGM we will be there.

[shark]

Haha, yep no Sharpy present, unfortunately I do not own an on road car..... or should that be fortunately :lol:

Interesting opinion poll though Al, what did the other 25% vote for? To go to the Tamiya Euro Cup instead :lol:

All joking aside though i'm not sure if following TC methods is the way forward, my gut feeling is that we should get our regionals running the same as or at least as close to Off Road Nationals as possible, as Charlie said to get our drivers used to the format for the step up to End Of Seasons and Nationals. So the following changes & format for me-

Chance to drop 2 scores
Controlled tyres (same as Nats)
Referees
3 leg A finalsGot to agree with Rich on this, we should run as close to national format as possible....... Right back to bed !

[Alan]

My Comments in BOLD

Alan


RSharpy;313260]Haha, yep no Sharpy present, unfortunately I do not own an on road car..... or should that be fortunately :lol:
We do run buggy's as well on a club night!

Interesting opinion poll though Al, what did the other 25% vote for? To go to the Tamiya Euro Cup instead? :lol:
Silly comment really, but there preference was to stay as we are.

All joking aside though i'm not sure if following TC methods is the way forward, my gut feeling is that we should get our regionals running the same as or at least as close to Off Road Nationals as possible, as Charlie said to get our drivers used to the format for the step up to End Of Seasons and Nationals. So the following changes & format for me-

Chance to drop 2 scores 2 from 4 then? Not sure if another round (5 in total) is possible, viable or desirable?
Controlled tyres (same as Nats) No Problems with this, Maybe allow full spikes to allow more chance of running in wetter conditions?
Referees Who provides the ref?
3 leg A finals Majority of drivers from Broxtowe considering mid east regionals next year not in favour.

My comments in Bold


Alan

[Alan]

We at Leveton are interested in holding a regional next year we just have a problem with our old AMB20 system ie its not digital and as you know most people like using personals.
We have alredy planned the changes for the track with the mind to running a regional round, as for the AGM we will be there.

With regard to the old AMB20 system, I am sure we can sort out the loan of a later version for the weekend to allow personals. I believe it is just a change of the red box which will allow this, although I am not sure if the old AMB20 handout transponders are compatible with the newer version??
However, with the agreement of the our committee I am sure we can lend the necessary equipment, or a club closer to you could help you out for the weekend? Point is I am positive we can overcome this issue with help from other clubs if you do not have it resolved by then.

Alan

[RSharpy]

My comments in blue :)

RSharpy;313260]Haha, yep no Sharpy present, unfortunately I do not own an on road car..... or should that be fortunately :lol:
We do run buggy's as well on a club night! Yes I am aware you put a couple of jumps out, I have been before but as a rule I do not race on Fri & Sat nights, A joke! :p

Interesting opinion poll though Al, what did the other 25% vote for? To go to the Tamiya Euro Cup instead? :lol:
Silly comment really, but there preference was to stay as we are. Yes a silly comment for a silly opinion pole! Another joke! :p

All joking aside though i'm not sure if following TC methods is the way forward, my gut feeling is that we should get our regionals running the same as or at least as close to Off Road Nationals as possible, as Charlie said to get our drivers used to the format for the step up to End Of Seasons and Nationals. So the following changes & format for me-

Chance to drop 2 scores 2 from 4 then? Not sure if another round (5 in total) is possible, viable or desirable? Yes another round would be possible, desirable not sure- open for debate, but having another round all depends on how many clubs would like to host a regional. Lets remember we have 9 potential clubs/venues in our region so if all or most wanted to then it would be viable.
Controlled tyres (same as Nats) No Problems with this, Maybe allow full spikes to allow more chance of running in wetter conditions? Full spikes may be a good addition with us racing mainly on grass.
Referees Who provides the ref? A team of experienced off road drivers could referee on rotation, it would be a worth while addition to the series. A drivers rep would also be a step forwards.
3 leg A finals Majority of drivers from Broxtowe considering mid east regionals next year not in favour. The'majority' of drivers from Broxtowe, I can think of a few that were not in attendence :thumbdown: Again a silly opinion pole, let our members think, speak and vote for them selves :p

[Alan]

I don't quite know what I am supposed to do here. I ask people for their opinion at a club meeting. I also ensure that it is only those who have an interest in mid east regionals. I report the answers and feelings as a representive of those members. As chairman of the club it's what I feel should do. I don't have the timescale to try and talk to every member individually so I use the best method open to me and their opinions and my methods are simply ridiculed on here probably because they don't agree with some other persons thoughts.

If it was the opinion of the people I spoke to was diferent then perhaps there would be no comments such as "silly opinion pole."

My silly opinion pole gave drivers a chance to voice their views which I then passed on. Not all drivers are going to be able to attend this meeting in Grantham so I feel it important to have a feeling of what they want before I attend. We don't all go to parliament to express our opinion, we have reps to do this for us, there called MP's.

Again, I am quite saddened that I have to be ridiculed for simply trying to guage an opinion from my members. I couldn't think of a better way in the timescale we had. I feel some people should grow up, and listen to the opinions of other drivers instead of trying to ram theirs down everyone elses throats. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and I am trying to give all my interested club members a chance to voice theirs through me. More fool me! Perhaps I shouldn't bother next time and live with the consequences.

Alan

[RSharpy]

One thing is for sure, having spoke to some of our members, 3 legged a finals is an absolute no go, and that is from both sides of the fence, i.e. possible A finalists and not so possible! This is mainly due to the rushing around they feel they would endure etc.

Also, they like the number of rounds we currently have, and don't want to see the championship spread out with more rounds. 4 of each is enough thanks.

AlanBlimey Al, you should know me well enough by now to know I am only having a laugh. To be fair when you make the comments above before you do a vote to a good number of members you leave your self open to a bit of banter! I don't feel I am the one trying to ram opinions down peoples throats!

Next year with me doing Nationals and two friends stag do's & weddings the likely hood is I will not be able to attend all of the regionals so any comments and opinions I have raised are not for personal gain but to help you guys have a better series.

Alan you do a fantastic job at Broxtowe and in my eyes you are irreplaceable as Chairman. My apologies if I have over stepped the mark and upset you in anyway. I love you and the club to bits :wub

All in all I think it is a positive thing that we all feel so passionate about our racing and region. :thumbsup:

Time to lay this thread to bed, see you guys at the meeting & Al i'll buy you a pint or two :)