BRCA Micro EGM proposals

[sldmodels]

I'm looking for someone to second the following proposals for the 2010 EGM

1. "Delete rule 7.16"

Reasoning behind this rule - the majority of drivers have been running 2.4gig, which should not be able to interfere with anyones race. This rule may have been relevant in the days before 2.4gig, but is no longer the case. It puts an extra administration and cost burden on the host club, and is a relic of an earlier age in some scale racing.

2 replace rule 7.16 with

"Prior to the rack being open all non 2.4gig transmitters, to be placed transmitters must be removed from the pit area and placed in
designated transmitter compound. Except when racing, transmitters must remain in within the compound until the track is declared closed for the day. Transmitters may be removed by individual competitors at the race directors discretion to allow for new electrical items to be checked and setup. – provision for charging transmitters will also be made in this area"

3 "Only Hard cased lipos that are on the BRCA Approved battery list maybe used. Any non-hard cased lipos or Nimh battery may be used"

Reasoning behind this rule - This is a rule with the future of the Micro series in mind. Some clubs will not allow non-hard cased lipos to be run, others insisting they be on the BRCA list. This put the dirvers who attend those clubs at an unfair disadvantage when it comes to the nationals. People who race at clubs that only allow lipos from the BRCA, and break this rule, risk being banned from that club. I know of two people who have done this,and who have continued to do this, putting me in a very awkward situation with the club. Rule 1.11 would need ammending to bring it into line.

4 Replace

"All cars running in the 2WD (Two Wheel Drive) class must be RWD (Rear Wheel Drive). Only
the rear wheels may be connected to the cars transmission; the front wheels must rotate freely in
both directions."

in rule 1.1 with

"All cars running 2wd must be RWD, and must have been intended to be 2wd at first purchase, whatever modifications may have been made afterwards"

Reasoning - converted 4wd cars have an obvious advantage over their 2wd cousins, which break the spirit, if not the rules, of the race at present.

4 Rule 3.12 The track liaison officer to ensure the hosting clubs are well aware of the requirements for hosting a national round.

Reasoning, the hosting clubs may not be fully understanding of the requirements of them when holding a round, or may not fully understand the meaning behind some of the requirements, ie fenced off areas, the main straight being at the far side of the rostrum, etc.

change rule 6.8 to

"Provision must be made for the ‘official shop’. Only the ‘official’ shop will be able to trade ateach round. The role of the 'official shop' to be put out to tender, for a period of a 1 to 3 year deal. Choice of 'official shop' to be made by the BRCA Micro Exec, within 30 days of the EGM. Reasons for the choice of 'official shop' to be released on the BRCA Micro website."

Reasoning, to open up what could be a potential monopoly to competition.



"rule 6.9 Marshall must be in a s suitable position so as not to obstruct the view of any major part of the track, ie a corner or jumps. The race director or any relevant BRCA official may more or alter any unsuitable marshalling position."

Change rule 7.4.

"Qualifying will consist of 3 rounds of qualifying heats. Points will be awarded for each round. Tied positions within a round will receive equal points. The points for subsequent positions will be displaced by the number of tied drivers involved. A driver's best 2 scores will be added together to give a qualifying position. Ties will be eliminated firstly by using discard points and secondly, by use of the fastest overall time."

Delete rule 7.6 - This rule gives the advantage to the person who has already qualified ina better position, and penalizes others, who may stand in a certain postion for medical reasons ie vision problems, height etc.

replace 9.3. with

"Meetings will consist of 1 round of practise, 3 rounds of qualifying and 2 rounds of finals."

Now my eyes hurt and I need my sleep after reading through all the current rules.

[frogger]

O dear, good luck. Don't think you will get anywhere with these :lol:

[Smartalec]

O dear, good luck. Don't think you will get anywhere with these :lol:Seconded :lol:

[c0sie]

Is there such a thing as "thirded"?

I shall Google...

[sldmodels]

Oh I know why on the lipos, as the people who attend the EGM all race at clubs where this isn't an issue, and couldn't give a stuff about anyone else, but this is preventing the micro scene from growing. How can I recommend any lipos at the mo' that aren't hard-cased? Do I just carry on saying "be carefull with your lipos or they might go bang and cause all kinds of damage?". Not having a set of lipos on an approved list is irresponsible knowing what we know and this won't affect you if you don't allready run hard-cased lipos, it just means that peopel who do or who will want, have a list of approved cells, at most, this will affect 3-4 manufacturers, who may not even submit their cells.

Besides, I hear lots of "that'll never go through" but as per usual, no reasons or explanations why.

[c0sie]

Not having a set of lipos on an approved list is irresponsible knowing what we know
Do you have any understanding of the Electric board and how the EB works Sarah?

The Bike section of the BRCA do not have a "batterys only from the EB list" rule either. Does that mean that Dez and co are also "irresponsible"??

You are the only person I know who has an issue with needing cells on an EB list, and that is only so that you can run LiPo at the Stafford club. you will therefore have to forgive me if I dont change my stance solely to resolve your issue.

The EB list is not a safe list of cells that wont go pop, it is a list that is available to sections that want to use it to ensure conformity.

To quote the EB section of the BRCA website:
The prime objective of the (EB) is to formulate a common set of rules, specifications and fix maximum prices for the BRCA Electric Sections to use.

Remember, the majority of rules within our handbook, over all classes, are relative to National Series events only. If a certain club are insistent that they want micros to run LiPos that are on an EB list (bearing in mind that such a list doesn't even exist) then that club surely is not worth your time and efforts.

[frogger]

Sarah, stop this nonsense about hard case lipo's in micro's. It's totally rediculous since you are the only person who have ever wanted this. Aircraft, helicopters, bikes, micro's, etc. doesn't run with hard cased lipo's. There is, as far as I know, only 1 available hard case lipo available (LRP) that would even fit in the cars and it costs £47 each. If anything, that alone will kill the class. Now go bark up another tree, you are wasting your time.

[sldmodels]

My club is 1 mile down the road from me. They only allow lipos that are on the BRCA approved list.

Another club, Stoke, only allow hard cased lipos.

Dudley are okay with any lipos, but that at least 30mins travel for me.

Tamworth allow lipos, that's an hour's travel for me, and they don't race all year round.

Just what is your objection to this? It won't affect you in any way at all, yet it does affect me and it affects others at the various clubs that only allow hard cased lipos.

It is just a case of "I'm alright Jack" isn't it.

[sldmodels]

Frogger, I would be more than happy to pay the £47 for the LRP lipos. Trakpower do hard cased lipos too, Much-More is looking into it, and I heard a rumour about Orion.

I'm the only person who has wanted this, as other people who attend my club (and have been told by me) ARE using non-hardcased lipos, and don't care that they risk being banned from the club.

This isn't nonsense Frogger. I have mentioned that only hard-cased lipos by on a BRCA list, so again I need to stress that if you aren't running a hard-cased lipo, it won't affect you in the slightest, yet still people don't seem to want to acknowledge this?

[frogger]

I would be more than happy to pay the £47 for the LRP lipos

Good for you, I am not when a £6 zippy lipo is good enough.

Trakpower do hard cased lipos too

No they don't, not for micro's. Have you spoken with Trakpower recently?

Much-More is looking into it, and I heard a rumour about Orion.


Really, wow, some good info you have there.

So you are suggesting the micro section allow all battery types regardless but create an 'Approved List' with a single LRP hard cased pack on? And you can't see why it's rediculous? :wtf:

[DCM]

Not that I race micro, but the reason that the EB list insist on hard cased lipo's, is that it reduces the risk of puncture of the cells, so safety. As for quoting what the BMFA allow, isn't exactly appropriate either.

As for condeming his proposals, being that is all that they are, unless they are seconded, they won't go forward, but why not just leave it at that?

[frogger]

Not that I race micro, but the reason that the EB list insist on hard cased lipo's, is that it reduces the risk of puncture of the cells, so safety. As for quoting what the BMFA allow, isn't exactly appropriate either.

As for condeming his proposals, being that is all that they are, unless they are seconded, they won't go forward, but why not just leave it at that?

There is a whole lot of history in this DCM. Sarah has been banned from the micro forum and now continuing the nonsense over here. :thumbdown:

[peetbee]

My club is 1 mile down the road from me. They only allow lipos that are on the BRCA approved list.

Another club, Stoke, only allow hard cased lipos.

Sarah, what are the clubs' reasons for these decisions?

[DCM]

There is a whole lot of history in this DCM. Sarah has been banned from the micro forum and now continuing the nonsense over here. :thumbdown:

But all the user has done, is posted some proposals, just leave it like that, rather than drawing it out into what will end up, being a petty argument.

[DCM]

Sarah, what are the clubs' reasons for these decisions?

I would of thought, if it is for 10th scale, makes purchasing simpler, and also, if saloons are run, there is a greater risk of puncture, compated to most buggies.

[sldmodels]

It's a saferty issue mainly.

The Stafford club we're using regular lipos, then out venue found and said no. A compromise situation was reached where hard cased lipos on the BRCA approved list would be allowed, more so for insurance reasons I'm led to believe.

The Stoke club are simply playing it safe. They've had various incidents over the past few years we're nimh cells have gone bang, and they're not wanting the same kind of thing to happen with lipos.

Frogger - Cosie banned me for personal reasons, you'll have to ask him what they are, as he won't give me an honest answer.

If you read the current thread on the micro forums, you'll see that he is still having a dig at me, and others are outright flaming in their posts.

A lipo bag will prevent problems when you're charging lipos, but isn't much help when that same lipo is in your car and is involved in a bad crash and goes bang.

You don't need hard-cased lipos in planes, as they aren't put under the same stresses as cars put them under. As for the bikes not using them yet, the bikes section is relatively new. They may still go down the hard-cased lipo route.

It also needs to be said, that the Bedworth club used to run lipos in the Carisma / Recoil class, but stopped them after an incident with a lipo, earlier in the year.

Not having this list is setting the BRCA micro section up for a big financial payout when something bad happens.

[frogger]

It's for 1/18th scale and only 1 mafufacturer on the planet makes 1 model of hard cased lipo that only fits very few of the current 1/18th scale cars.

[jimmy]

These rules are a bit nuts.

[sldmodels]

Don't you think more manufacturers would make hard-cased lipos once there was the demand?

Right now, anyone at my club or a club with similar rules is at a distinct disadvantage whenit comes to the nationals simply because they can't run the equipment that they would be running at a the nationals. How can any of those people get any setup time when they can't use the appropriate equipment, and have to shell out more money buying nimh's which, are only going to become more scarce as time goes on.

[DCM]

Actually, it isn't the loading that causes issue's with LiPo, it is under/over voltage that is one cause, and the other, is cell damage. The BMFA are very lax in that rule, given that the use of soft LiPo makes a light plane, light, simple as that, no other reason.

No section has to use the EB, but certain sections have adopted the rules, as it allows the transfer of gear from one class to another, far simpler. The bike section would of started running lipo before the EB formulated a list, which is designated really, for 10th scale use. If the bike section wished, and the micro section, they could task the EB with formulating some general rules regarding cells and motors.

[frogger]

Don't you think more manufacturers would make hard-cased lipos once there was the demand?

Yeah sure, so that is you and who else that want one? :lol:

[Checa]

How can you puncture a lipo when everyone is running Shark's which are a tub chassis:eh?:

[DCM]

I dunno, there is 4wd and 2wd chassis, as I said, I don't race Micro, so can't really comment on that aspect.

[jimmy]

I run an m18tpro? :bored:

[sldmodels]

Thank you DCM, I think that's one of the most sensible posts I've seen on the subject.

[sldmodels]

You'd have to ask the various club why they don't like non-hardcased lipos.

Personally I've killed about 3 soft lipos in the past year. One, I dropped some solder on it at Tamworth, so didn't want to risk running it. Second, something went wrong with the motor or connections which led to smoke coming from my car. Can't remember what happened to the third one, but in all that time that I've been runing micro lipos, I've been running 1/10th TC hard cased lipos, with no problems.

Also, Trakpower has new hard cased micro lipos on they way, as part of their dark series, but they're yet to be released.

[sldmodels]

Yeah sure, so that is you and who else that want one? :lol:

All the people who are currently asking me for lipos in the shop.

[Checa]

Hard case lipo's will just raise prices and turn people away. As the class stands you can race at a very competitive level for a small amount of money in comparison with other classes.

I've heard all this before so im off back to UKMRC

[sldmodels]

Can no-one read? You can still race your cheap lipos, putting everyone's safety at risk.

[DCM]

Well, if you have clubs, that have rules which stipulate that only hard cased lipo's are to be used, how would the section cope, if they were to have a national?

I mean, if, as a section, you are looking into LiPo safety, then you got to be looking at people over charging/incorrectly charging of LiPo, and also the fitment or correctly setup up Votlage cut-off in the car, that is careless of whether they are hard/soft LiPo's. Once that risk has been assessed, then you could assess the risk of puncture in that class of racing. As the section is also covered by the BRCA insurance, if an accident were to happen, then the insurance company would more than likely want to see a risk assessment before it would contemplate a claim.

[Smartalec]

I run an m18tpro? :bored:
But you don't count coz you're weird :p:lol::lol:

[Checa]

Can no-one read? You can still race your cheap lipos, putting everyone's safety at risk.

I have only ever seen 1 micro lipo go up in smoke and that was user error 5 AMPS on nimh setting:thumbdown:

[c0sie]

/Yawn

Would you believe it, im with Danny and Carl on this one :D I never thought that would happen :D lol

Steve, if the BRCA were in a position where risk assessments had to be done before any claims AND that assessment would show a risk in using softcase lipos I am 110% sure that the BRCA would be onto me and Dez like a shot.

Joffrey, will we be seeing you and your M18TPro at Tamworth in January? You know that you and Mrs.O are always welcome :)

Sarah, you are well within your rights to propose that you have an EB list. Good luck....

[peetbee]

Can no-one read? You can still race your cheap lipos, putting everyone's safety at risk.
And that's where you keep going wrong in insisting that just because a lipo is on the list it will be safer than one that isn't. As someone else has quoted from the EB this isn't the reason the list was created.

I have not had any problems with my mucho cheapo micro lipos but have had a 'legal and therefore safe' trakpower swell up, and in that situation it being hard cased made no difference to the outcome.

I do worry for these clubs what will happen when their venues find out that even lipos on the list aren't safe if they are mistreated (and no I didn't mistreat mine!)

I did come up with a proposal last year when you raised this - did you investigate it any further? Personally I've taken some time out from Micro racing which is why I'm not going to be making any proposals for the EGM.

[Checa]

[QUOTE=c0sie;319586]/Yawn

Would you believe it, im with Danny and Carl on this one :D I never thought that would happen :D lol





WOW :o

[Mini-JT]

....

[gaffer]

Wow indeed, Cris, Carl and Danny actually agree on something what a momentous occasion.

I would say as long as you treat the Lipo battery with care and respect then it should be safe enough to use otherwise they wouldnt be sold, especially if children are involved in the sport.

I run the overlander 800mah and they are awesome at about £12 each. Would be gutted if i was told i could only run £47 hard cased ones.

[frogger]

Wow indeed, Cris, Carl and Danny actually agree on something what a momentous occasion.


It's happened before and it might just happen again :thumbsup:

[sldmodels]

I run the overlander 800mah and they are awesome at about £12 each. Would be gutted if i was told i could only run £47 hard cased ones.

I'll put ths in capitals below, so that the hard of reading can fully understand it.

ONLY HARD CASED LIPOS WOULD NEED TO BE ON THE BRCA LIST, NON-HARDCASED LIPOS OR "SOFT" CASED LIPOS, WOULD NOT NEED TO BE ON THE LIST, AND YOU COULD CARRY ON USING THEM.

FFS - Am I speaking another language or something?

[DCM]

Actually, that don't make much sense, I can understand having a list of cells, or regulations on cell construction, but not to go through the process of making cell rules, getting them checked by the EB, a list created, and then still allowing non-checked cells to be used.

[Mini-JT]

....

[sldmodels]

I've explained the situation a few times already. It's less so for the nationals, and moreso for the clubs that only allow hard cased lipos to be run. If you can't run a micro with lipos at your club, and have to run nimh's which are getting harder to come by, are a lot of maintenance, don't have the same performance as lipos, then you're not going to get new people into the nationals, just the same old faces, who are the very same people objecting to this.

Peetbee, I don't remember your proposal sorry.

Also, Wim has done a very good job so far, I consider him a friend, and have him on my facebook, but if I give my reasons for submitting this proposal, then I'll only get a load of abuse from the usual suspects.

It's been said that only a handfull of people turn up at the egm's, so that handfull could fully write the rules to suit themselves, which means more people should attend it, but I thought the very nature of an EGM, was an Extraordinary General Meeting, a one-off. Surely, we should now be setting rules for the next season at the AGM.

[Ben Turner]

I would love to see how someone can get through 3 packs of overlanders in a season, it sounds like it would make an AWESOME youtube video :)

To be honest, I prefer soft cased lipos where you can actually feel and see more of what is going on with the pack, rather then have it all covered up by a nice shiney hard case and then blow someones nads off with no warning :p

[Mini-JT]

....

[sldmodels]

To be honest, I prefer soft cased lipos where you can actually feel and see more of what is going on with the pack, rather then have it all covered up by a nice shiney hard case and then blow someones nads off with no warning :p

Well I don't have to worry about that lol


"Confused because by your own 'rules' anyone in that club would be able to run soft lipo cells that are not on the list :eh?: So still not quite getting the point! If folks on the micro committee can't grasp this you gonna struggle exlaining it to everyone else ! Not having a go just making a statement"

Understand your confusion on this. The rules are there for the nationals. All I'm asking, all I've ever asked for, is that hard cased lipos be submitted to the battery list, but because of how things work, this tends to require a rule being made. If I could buy a set of hard-cased lipos and send them off to the EB for approval myself then I would do that, but I really don't know if that's an option, I think it has to be the manufacturer or distributor.

If I can submit cells myself, then please let me know and I will.

[i4n]

Just reading the thread as a semi-interested independent party what I think Sarah is trying to get at is there are several clubs that will only allow hard case LiPo that are on a BRCA list to be used at their facilities. Currently there isn't one for Micro so people either have to use NiMH or LiPo and risk expulsion from the club for not following the rules.

By getting the EB board to produce said list will make those clubs happy and give the racers that go to them the opportunity to use LiPo IAW the club rules and not just NiMH.

The national races could use any cell they wanted (soft or hard case LiPo or NiMH) and not be restricted to the EB list.

[c0sie]

I'll put ths in capitals below, so that the hard of reading can fully understand it.

ONLY HARD CASED LIPOS WOULD NEED TO BE ON THE BRCA LIST, NON-HARDCASED LIPOS OR "SOFT" CASED LIPOS, WOULD NOT NEED TO BE ON THE LIST, AND YOU COULD CARRY ON USING THEM.

FFS - Am I speaking another language or something?

So now you are saying that people within this thread are "hard of reading"?
Wow Sarah, you really know how to boost support for your cause!

[sldmodels]

I4n has managed to figure out what I'm trying to do where others have failed?

Cosie - When I've explained this over and over again, what other conclusion should I draw? The people are being thick, just don't get it, or just deliberately trying to wind me up? - which camp do you fall into.

[c0sie]

I think I fall into the "dont get it" camp..as such.

Maybe the fact that Ian explained it well in one post says that maybe your explanation needs developing??......

If you think its hard going on a forum try explaining that at in the EGM hall.

[DCM]

I actually understand what you are trying to do, but really, the cell list is first and foremost, for use at the National series, to allow people to have a level playing field(ish), clubs do not have to adopt the battery list, nor any other rule, in essence, as long as the track conforms to the BRCA regs, thats all that is neccesary, I believe.

I can understand those who are racing, not wanting to be forced to buy more expensive cells, but then I do understand the conformity issue too.

[Chris Doughty]

with the whole battery thing, it seems your issue with the EB and not the micro section,

ask the EB to setup a list of micro hard cased LiPo's get them submitted to the EB for approval and there you go.

nothing needs to be chagned with the MIcro section.

[c0sie]

As far as I am aware the just because a cell/pack is on the EB list does not mean that the cell/pack in question is any more safe than a cell/pack NOT on the list.

Therefore, surely the arguement that certain clubs have that micros should only run cells on an EB list for safety reasons is flawed?

If a certain Midlands based club stated that micros could only run hard-cased LiPos at their meetings then thats fair enough, but to turn around and say that micros must only run hard cased cells off an EB list seems pointless.

[peetbee]

Having read through the EB section on the BRCA site it is possible for anyone to submit a lipo pack to be included on the list and there is no charge.
A micro pack such as the LRP would certainly come within the maximum dimensions for 7.4v pack! I don't know if it would fall foul of the rule regarding exit wires though.

I would say the best thing to do is email the EB and explain why exactly you need the EB list to contain a hard cased micro lipo (ie: clubs and venues requiring it) and see what they say.
You'd need to do it now though as the cutoff for submisssions for the 2010 list is 31st December.

(although I do agree with Cris' comments regarding safety).

[sldmodels]

If a certain Midlands based club stated that micros could only run hard-cased LiPos at their meetings then thats fair enough, but to turn around and say that micros must only run hard cased cells off an EB list seems pointless.

Ok, this seems to be the point of confusion, so let me try to clarify it.

IF you are running hard-cased lipos, they must or should be from the battery list. I have tried explaining this several times, but look at it another way based on cost.

I'll race lipos at the nationals with a normal rrp of £15. I can't run them at my club, so I have to shell out for 4-5 sets of nimhs at about £15 per set rrp. Now, even though I will get those at trade prices, you can imagine just how much I would have to shell out, and someone who is buying at the retail prices, will have to spend more.

Maybe a rule isn't needed, but I have asked before about submitting cells to the EB and been shot down before, plus, hard-cased lipos are expenisve now relatively speaking, but the more I buy (and other shops) the better deal we get, which can be passed on, and the prices eventually come down.

[c0sie]

The reason you get shot down is due to your explanation I think.

I think that the issue lies with ""this club" moreso than anything else. If "club Chairman" says to you that you can only run LiPo off an EB list there is no change in the safety situation just because they may be hard cased and on the EB list.

I think the problem lies with "old school dinosaurs" not really understanding how things work outside of their patch...as such.

All BS aside, if you want the EB to produce a list for micro sized hard cased cells then I would email the EB directly and ask for their advice.
As far as I am concerned from a Committee/Chairman point of view I am against us running to an EB list for our Nationals, however if you want to get a list sorted solely so that "club Chairman" will STFU and let you race then thats fair enough.

This isnt an EGM matter though, you need to contact the EB about this.

If you wanted the Micro Nationals to run solely to an EB list then you would propose it at the EGM...but we all know how that would go lol.

See...I have a nice helpful side.

[sldmodels]

Without support from the BRCA micro section, it's a bit of a non-starter though.

[DCM]

I beleive the 'section' has to approach the 'electric board' with regard to a list, and the rules would be formulated that way, not an individual. I don't think the EB will produce rules and regs without a sections request.

[c0sie]

Is that an official statement from the EB? or just presumption?

Get in touch with the EB first, let me know what they say.

For the record, have you any details on hardcased micro LiPo's to hand?

Make, capacity, dimensions, C ratings, prices etc etc?

Id be interested, if you do, to see that information (my email address is on the brcamicro.org website)

[c0sie]

I beleive the 'section' has to approach the 'electric board' with regard to a list, and the rules would be formulated that way, not an individual. I don't think the EB will produce rules and regs without a sections request.

Well we wont know until she asks, will we :)

[sldmodels]

I've asked before about this, and got a very confusing answer back. I'll forward you the emails Cosie.

This is the list of LRP cells, without getting a tape measure out I can't say what's what,

http://www.s-m-d.co.uk/car-c100108.html

but to back that up

LRP79821LRP VTEC LiPo Competition car line 1800 - 7,4V / 28C1 piece£47.9987 x 33,5 x 19mm89,5g
LRP79831LRP VTEC LiPo Competition car line 1300 - 11,1V / 28C1 piece£53.9987 x 33,5 x 19mm91,5g
LRP79862LRP VTEC LiPo Competition car line 5300 - 7,4V / 28C1 piece£99.99137.5 x 46.5 x 43.5mm282g
LRP79880LRP VTEC LiPo Competition car line 3600 - 11,1V / 28C1 piece£99.99137,5 x 46,5 x 23,5mm284g

[Mini-JT]

....

[Checa]

Intellect also do a hard case micro pack as well.

Like I said in a previous post thinking of safty is great but with the hard case issue the LRP and Intellect packs only fit a minority of current micro chassis, (no 2WDs, Losi, Thunder Tiger or Tamya for example). If you have say a club running to an EB list only you've effectivly created a spec class due to the cells shape & size limiting what chassis can or can't be run, not good for diversity or those without a compatible car.

I'm not against the idea of a list or improving safety, but it sounds more like something for the clubs involved to set at there own EGMs rather than at national EGM level.


Fit in a 2WD Shark :lol: sorry i just could not resist

[sldmodels]

understand what you're saying, but they will do a hard cased lipo for 2wd as and when the demand is there (whoever they are). can you currently run lipos at your club?

see, you should be able to buy a hard-case, to put existing lipos in, or at least I think that would be a good idea.

[Ben Turner]

Tupperware box??

[sldmodels]

LOL! nagh, something thing that can be appoved as a hardcased thing, suppose it would just take someone who knew about plastics to be able to do it.

[Mini-JT]

....

[_Bish_]

Surely hardcased micro lipo's could go on the same list as 1/10th lipo's??
As they fit the rules the EB use.

[sldmodels]

That would seem to be the easiest thing, I mean it has allready been extended from touring cars to other classes, and it's not the 1/10th tc eb, it's just the eb.

[Mad-Wolfie]

just my 2p worth.. i found a quote on a 1:1 racing forum, but i think the quote applies to RC just as well, not just in Micro, but all scale.

"The single greatest cost to a team is when a new rule renders their current equipment uncompetitive or worse, illegal"

something to ponder.

[c0sie]

After a night out on the beer that quote has made my head hurt at this early hour!

But I kinda see your point :)

[sldmodels]

just a quickie, any update on the hard-cased lipo situation, or is that doomed till next time now?

[espana]

thought micro scale was cheap to run.if hard-cased batteries are between 48-100 pounds each.:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

[c0sie]

Right....as I see it...

"Micro" sized hard cased LiPo packs fit within the dimensional sizes on the current EB list.

Therefore, as far as I am aware it is down to the UK distributors of each relevant micro pack to submit these packs to the EB for addition to the list.

The distributor has to show the EB that the micro packs are freely avaliable in the UK (non internet sales), thats the only bit that might prove tricky.

Sarah, you need to speak to the distributors of which ever pack(s) you want on the EB list and ask them to submit.

According to the EB rules, submission costs the distributor nothing other than the pack that they send.

[peetbee]

just a quickie, any update on the hard-cased lipo situation, or is that doomed till next time now?

Don't know, have you contacted the EB at all since it was suggested that may be the way forward?

As c0sie, Bish and myself earlier in the thread have suggested, the LRP should comply with all existing EB requirements. However, when I was reading the EB rules 'ANYONE' can submit a pack for approval, so if SMD don't want to send a pack into the EB there's nothing to stop you. Plus it's free.

I don't mean to be a grump (I'm not sure quite where my christmas spirit has gone) but why don't you contact the EB and see what they say? Just do it quickly as the cutoff for the 2010 list is looming.

[DCM]

:woot: contacting Paul Worsley :woot:

[peetbee]

:woot: contacting Paul Worsley :woot:
who is? you is?

[c0sie]

I would suggest that Sarah should, seeing as it is here that raised this issue initially.

Too many cooks, etc?...

[DCM]

I ain't, I have had his emails before, and they still give me headaches!!! :lol:

[sldmodels]

think it might be a bit too late now, but will try if I get chance.

[sldmodels]

Got a reply back from Paul tonight. It looks like it's too late, and also, the manufacturer or distributor is the one who has to submit the cells anyway (Cosie, if you've not got the rules, let me know and I'll forward you what Paul sent me).

:(

[sldmodels]

thought micro scale was cheap to run.if hard-cased batteries are between 48-100 pounds each.:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

this would only affect a small ammount of people who would have to spend this much anyway on nimh's and lipos, instead of only having two sets of lipos, instead of two sets of cheaper lipos, and 4-5 sets of nimhs, which need replacing more often anyway.

[sldmodels]

One step closer, SMD don't have any in stock at the mo', but will be sorting it.

[sldmodels]

Still looking for people to second or propose changes to the the rules I've suggested.

[sldmodels]

mmm, think my proposed rule change about the transmitter bins might have a seconder now.

[Northy]

Is this the "only tranny compound for the 27MHz and 40MHz users" suggestion? :eh?:

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask the clubs running the event to have the tranny compound in a secure area and large enough? :eh?: We seem to manage fine in 10th.....

[Jonesy]

Is this the "only tranny compound for the 27MHz and 40MHz users" suggestion? :eh?:

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask the clubs running the event to have the tranny compound in a secure area and large enough? :eh?: We seem to manage fine in 10th.....


There was an issue at Sundays Micro National G that the Tranny Compound wasn't huge due to space restrictions and there was a danger transmitters could be knocked and fall about 3 foot.

[Northy]

Does that really need a rule? Can't it be a provision of holding a National that the tranny compound is suitable? :eh?:

G

[Jonesy]

You're probably right but it may be better as a rule so it is adhered too and to give something extra that people can moan about.......!!!

In all fairness I've only done 1 Micro National so far so it'll be unfair for me to compare them to 16 years of 10th Nationals.

[frogger]

Whether it's worked for years in 10th scale or not has nothing to do with it. Technology has moved on and there is no reason for 2.4ghz transmitters to be left in the compound (other than for the period during which the person has to do their marshalling). It's one of those things that has the potential to create far more of a problem than what it actually solves (if it even solves anything as there were still at least one person I know of that experienced interference issues on Sunday even with all the trannys in the compound).

[c0sie]

G - We are not blessed with hundreds of venues applying for Nationals every year, so no, making it a requirement probably wouldnt be a good idea.

[Northy]

G - We are not blessed with hundreds of venues applying for Nationals every year, so no, making it a requirement probably wouldnt be a good idea.

Neither are we :cry:

G

[c0sie]

We aint doing to bad for a Section and Series that is only 3 years old.
Rome wasnt built in a day you know ;)

[frogger]

We aint doing to bad for a Section and Series that is only 3 years old.
Rome wasnt built in a day you know ;)

I would say we are doing AWESOMELY :thumbsup:

[Northy]

I would say we are doing AWESOMELY :thumbsup:

Frogger, are you American? I love working for an American company, I hear everything described like that..... :woot:

G

[markwilliamson2001]

No, he is from LAAAAANDDAAN (or London) :D

[frogger]

Frogger, are you American? I love working for an American company, I hear everything described like that..... :woot:

G

Live in London but originally from South Africa. I work for an American company too and spend far too much time there, it obviously shows :thumbsup:

[sldmodels]

I think they're needs to be a better way of submitting proposals too, and I don't just mean to the micro section, but generally. At the min it can be very cliquey.

I'm not quite sure how it would need to be worded, but an idea would be for someone to submit the proposed rule change onto the relevant forum and have a voting option with it. This would simply be to second, or third the motion, so it could then be put to the relevant egm / agm, and the refinements that nine times out of ten need to take place can be done before you get to the meeting.

[sldmodels]

Frogger, I proposed the same rule change weeks ago that you've proposed on the micro forum, and you rubbished it at the time.

[DCM]

Sorry, but when you propose a rule change, then you vote on that wording, not dicuss the wording at the meeting, but also be prepared to explain your rule change and why you think it is a good idea for your section. Proposing it on a forum is just there to allow people to shoot it down. All fare and well discussing thoughts, but once you have a proposal, and someone willing to second it, it should be sent to the Committee, a set number of weeks before the AGM, and then voted on at the AGM.

Forums are great for desk jockey racers.

[sldmodels]

DCM - I've nothing against discussing the proposal at the EGM / AGM, but if you can sort out the finer points beforehand, then it all helps as far as I can see. I wasn't suggesting replacing the AGM with a forum.

[c0sie]

Forums are great for desk jockey racers.

:thumbsup:

[dodgydiy]

what is wrong with soft cased lipo?? its easier to see if pack is failing and as long as they are protected from possible damage by the edge of a chassis or a battery box then what is the problem. not a good idea to turn micro's over to just a few name brand manufacturers for its batteries, i would rather not do a meeting than spend an extra £30 plus per pack just to have it in a plastic box with a name on it, besides that my chassis probably wouldnt take a hardcase lipo

[sldmodels]

Some clubs will only allow you to run lipos that are on the BRCA EB list. The proposal was never intended to disallow people running soft cased lipos at the Nationals, just to allow people who race at the the afforementioned clubs to be able to race with lipos, rather than having to have 4-5 sets of nimhs at their club, and lipos at the nationals.

If you read the whole thread then it should hopefully make sense, unfortunately, some people simply like to stir things.

[frogger]

Forums are great for desk jockey racers.

As opposed to what? Hard as nails toy car racers? :eh?:

[DCM]

point proven...

[frogger]

point proven...

course it has :bored:

[DCM]

SLD Models has posted up an idea, all be it a little odd, and rather than 'discuss' it, you straight away jump on their post, just like you did above, I just assume then, that you jump down peoples throats when you are chatting and disagree? All it has ended up doing, is being petty.

[frogger]

I just assume

That's where you are very wrong. We have discussed Sarah's ideas at length on the micro forum. Sarah upset a few people there and so ended up getting banned from that forum. Then she comes on here and starts the whole thing over again only for you, who don't race micro's at all to come and interject your opinions on MICRO specific BRCA proposals which don't in any way affect you but it very much affects us that actually race micro's.

[DCM]

I have raced Micro, at club level, and it just didn't appeal, and if you actually look what I have posted, it has been unbiased towards either side. If she is a member of the BRCA, she has a right to propose a rule change, it still got to pass voting at your AGM, so all this posturing and arguing, is mute really.

I understand Sarah's issue's, but I think pushing a rule change in the Micro section, is the wrong way to be going, and needs to consult the clubs, and get a rule change there, this reminds me why I didn't like Micro, to uch like nitro... all head strong.

oh yes, did the national at Cardiff, and the two Micro X there too ;)

[c0sie]

all head strong.

You say head strong, I say passionate..

[DCM]

There is a sound about that... you say TomAto I say tomato... lol

[millzy]

I say none of this is helping

[sldmodels]

Frogger - I was reffering to the transmitter compounds, I don't like them at all. My transmitter is allready cosmetically damaged (the 2.4 aerial) so didn't want to risk it getting damaged. Also, I noticed at the first meeting of the season that 80% of the drivers there we're on 2.4gig, so the reason behind the transmitter compound might have been valid at the time it was proposed, but I don't think it is anymore.

As for upsetting people, who have I upset? I'll apologise to them. If it's just Cosie doing his Alonso impression then tough. I got banned for reasons still unexplained to me.

[c0sie]

All hail the number 1 keyboard warrior.

All mouth, no trousers.

[sldmodels]

Yeah, very constructive reply Cosie, what's that contributing to the debate, and how dare you call me that. Do you know how much time and effort I put into Dudley? No is the answer. I'm sick of you running your mouth and running me down on practically everything I have to say or offer. I've only ever wanted to help since day 1 of me being involved, and had to put up with your crap since then too.

[c0sie]

You talk such crap!
I havent replied to a single one of your posts in ages, yet according to you I run you donw on everything you do? How does that figure?

Like I said, all mouth. You had your chance to say your piece to me at Dudley and you didnt, infact you didnt even look at me once yet you feel compelled to come onto the forums and slate me?

Give it a rest Sarah, its boring. If you need to give me shit just to make yourself feel/look better than fine, im down for that...hell you can say whatever you like about me cos at the end of the day your opinion, to me, means squat.

[sldmodels]

I didn't say anything to you, and you didn't say anything to me. The only time I've mentioned you here is when frogger said I'd upset people. To date, I still don't know who I've been accused of upsetting or even what I'm supposed to have done. I made the point of saying that if it was you then tough, you've done plenty of things to upset me so I really don't give a crap about that.

Now where's the iggy button.

[Tofuman]

All mouth, no trousers.

Very true and well said dude.

My answer to
Some clubs will only allow you to run lipos that are on the BRCA EB list.

is theres NO LIST with MICRO lipos on so stop going on about it and just use nimh at that club or go somewhere else, its that easy.

If they wanted your money they would be ok with you using what you got, or maybe they just dont want you there.

[sldmodels]

I've gone through the lipo issue before, it's not the club that has the problem it's the venue. The venue is an electrical component manufacturer. I think they might know more about power systems than some people on certain forums.

And, you expect me to fork out for 4-5 sets of nimhs per year, and 2 sets of lipos per year? I've checked in the mirror, and just to confirm, I'm not actually made of money, and the money tree outside my window was cut down last year.

I stopped going on about lipos ages ago, I'm not just patiently waiting for the LRP lipos to come onto the list.

[Tofuman]

Frogger, I would be more than happy to pay the £47 for the LRP lipos.

Erm, thats not what you said earlier.

3 "Only Hard cased lipos that are on the BRCA Approved battery list maybe used. Any non-hard cased lipos or Nimh battery may be used"

As I said there is NO list and that is about hard case lipo's.

If you stopped advertising the fact that you use lipos at this club (or want to use them) and just raced with them no one would bother you. Its not like anyone would be able to tell.

[sldmodels]

I just love being taken out of context you know. Try reading all of the subject before making comments.

[Tofuman]

I just love being taken out of context you know. Try reading all of the subject before making comments.

I have read all 6 now 7 pages.