New Real car - scrap-age deals ?? [Archive]

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andys

29-01-2010, 01:43 PM

Any one seen any really good car deals recently ?

I'm considering swopping my old T reg puma in on one of those scrappage deal jobbies ?

I'm just after a really good deal, not too fussed what car it is - anyone had any good experience of using the scrapage deals ?

purpletimbo

29-01-2010, 02:17 PM

http://www.carscrappage.co.uk/
only 4 weeks left, and I have heard that they try to tie you into a nasty finance package, so that you pay more total than getting a free interest or low interest deal, and throwing old one away.

T4miy4 Guy

29-01-2010, 02:25 PM

That sounds about right :mad:

Andy

cwilson

29-01-2010, 08:13 PM

Personally i hate that scheme. Being a banger driver i have seen loads off clean raceable cars go in the bin. Loads have been roadworthy aswell. It is now really hard to find a decent car for racing. I will be glad when the scheme has gone.

It has also affected the second hand car market aswell. Im trying to get a car sorted for the road but i cant find any in my price range that are anywhere near decent. plus it is hard to even find cars for cheap as most people now have the idea they can Pet £2000 for their car in the scheme while i can barely manage £100.

Just chipping in my thoughts.

Southwell

29-01-2010, 08:26 PM

Went to vauxhall today with the scrappage a brand new Corsa was cheaper than a second hand one. My parents are after one, i wouldn't touch one personally, i find all vauxhalls uncomfortable.

cwilson

30-01-2010, 12:22 AM

thats why i take them banger racing. they are much more fun that way:thumbsup:. but not as comfortable:(

PaulRotheram

30-01-2010, 08:59 PM

bert digler

30-01-2010, 09:16 PM

Feight

31-01-2010, 12:27 AM

I hate this scheme.

I've seen old minis scrapped and someone up the street passed away, she was a nice old lady, had a split screen morris minor, it's soon to be someone's toaster or dishwasher. Infact alot of stuff that was getting rare is now almost extinct.

I'm currently learning to drive (about time, I'm 26) and I found myself looking at buying new because it's so cheap, that and spares for older cars are getting crushed on a daily basis. :confused:

Big G

31-01-2010, 02:56 AM

(Background. I drive a '98 S plate MK4 golf TDI. I've been messing around with Golfs since I could drive so 10 years now and did 2 years in a Volkswagon specialist and I can pretty much do any job required on it)

my manager traded her T plate cougar in for a new Toyota IQ recently.

She said to me the other day I should do the same. I said, "whatever for? it's a diesel volkswagen with 1/4 mil on the clock it'll run forever" she said "yeah, but it's getting a bit long in the tooth now and soon you'll have to start spending loads of money to get it through the MOT's"

Since I have no labour bill and I get parts at trade prices I don't really see me spending loads to get it through any MOT anytime soon. And as far as I remember having known my car for 4 years now it's never needed anything doing to it to get it through the MOT and I've owned it for just over 2 years now. 1/4 million miles on it's 2nd gearbox and original engine with some of the lowest emissions the MOT tester had seen in a long time. I've never had to add any significant amount of coolant to it and apart from the blown gearbox it's never broken down which was partly my fault for driving with a knackered dual-mass flywheel which detonated my diff 60 miles later.

surely with this scheme coming to an end there's going to be a big gap in the 2nd hand car market were there are no cars between 99 and 2004 for example because they all got scrapped :confused:

daz

31-01-2010, 05:38 PM

I think you'd get a better deal without going in to the scrappage scheme, just by haggleing the dealer down - they all need your money now as their on their arses!

Places like Ford, Vauxhall, Fiat etc will knock more off as their monthly quotas are far higher than others and need to shift cars!

Managed to knock off 4k on my Astra at the start of the recession, and got in 12 months free tax, tank of fuel and a months insurance just by playing hard to get!
I've just purchased a Mini Cooper and got a grand off that, even with williams whos monthly quota is lower than others due to higher prices and better depreciation than most - everyone is struggling!
What a load of shit you have just posted, to say car dealers are on there arse now at this time is just verbal bullshit. They have never had it so good with this scrappage scheme, most have reported record sales for this time of year. The likes of Ford, Vauxhall, Fiat etc like the ones you have just mentioned above, and whats this load of shit about playing hard to get? Dealers will always make money out of you no matter what, for example Vauxhall where knocking Vectras out at £8000 less than the rrp, alright the new insignia was due out and at the time people wasnt buying cars, but if you worked it out after all the interest was paid and the final payment went through, you actually paid the rrp for the car.
Alright i have seen deals of a low percentaged, but you will not get £4000 knocked off that price, but if you px your car in the scrappage scheme you will get the £2000 off. Ive even seen deals where the manufacturer to match the 2k, but i bet they make it back on interest, thats how they work.

andys

31-01-2010, 08:00 PM

Colinevan

31-01-2010, 08:16 PM

Hell, didn't really want to start a debate on the pro's and cons !
Just wondered if anyone had seen any really good deals ?

I have a car that qualifies, and i'd like to keep it, but it has an electrical fault that so far 3 garages can't find the answer to. The battery keeps going flat (had a new battery, obviously) but I can't keep throwing money at it. I'm now a the point where my local garage says I can swop this and that (alternator for example) but there's no guarantees, it would be a process of elimination and hopefully fixing it that way !!

I'm not interested in any crazy finance deals, i'd be looking to swop the car in, if it comes to it, and then paying for the new car.

I'd love to keep my 99T Reg Puma, as it's only done 50K, but if it won't start and has a dead battery every now and again, I can't live with it (well I can, bit the missus can't when she needs to ferry kids around) !

Andy, if your car has only done 50k its got plenty of life left in it. My basic of basic car knowledge would point to the alternator as its the main component that re charges the battery. Car batteries need replacing every few years esp on cars that dont do much mileage as if your not really using the car on big journeys the alternator wont be able to charge it back to its peak. The cold weather recently wont have helped as you would be using the heaters more, windscreen heater element etc etc.

Unless the car has a few problems, id maybe look up a ford specialist or breakers on the internet ( ford forums are the best bet ) and take it from there.

Col.:D

topher2009

31-01-2010, 08:37 PM

I found that I could barter a new car down significantly if you are flexible about what you want, about a year we got a seat altea XL, brand new list price £16,500, we paid £13k and then got a grand more for the car we traded in that they were selling on autotrader for. I am a firm believer that the scrappage scheme is a method for dealers being able to convince people they are getting a good deal so they dont haggle!

Best thing is to look at a car then walk away, ring them up and do the bartering, its much easier when you are on your own turf and not theirs! Start off with getting the extras you want, then go for discount, then the interest rate, then the servicing, then finally go for the gift cabinet. I got a Lexus IS250, new in Sept 2008, list price with extras was £28k, I paid £23,500 and got 4% flat rate finance, 3 years free servicing and then got the Lexus wallet and watch as a final deal swinger.

You just have to be willing to haggle haggle haggle, plus have an idea what your part ex is worth by seeing what they are selling on Ebay, autotrader etc for.

As for the puma and its battery - I am not a mechanic but have done a fair bit of car tinkering in the past, measure the battery and see it is at 12V ish, then start the car and measure again, it should be 14V, if any less then its the alternator. If it is 14V or higher, remove the negative from the battery and put a multimeter in between the -ve cable and the battery terminal, see what current is being drawn with everything off, I am no expert but I would imagine it should be less than 50mA. Then remove a fuse at a time till it goes to zero, that will tell you what the leakage is and give you an idea what circuit to look at - worst case, you can remove that fuse when you leave the car! If there is a leakage all the time no matter how many fuses you remove, I would say the diodes in the alternator are shot - a new alternator should sort that - however I find it hard that a good auto electrician couldnt do all that!

It may also be worth just trying another battery - if the old one was dud due to age and you buy a new one - it might be the new one that is also dud - it wouldnt be the first time.

Hope this helps.....

andys

31-01-2010, 08:49 PM

Topher.

Many thanks for all the advice. It's taken me weeks to learn what you put in that post !

I have had the new battery changed, so I assume I can dismiss that one. The electrician said there was a very slight drain from the alarm and the radio, but nothing out of the ordinary.

I really would like to keep the car if I can get to the bottom of the problem, it's just that it will be worth much less than 2k when the scrapage deal ends, so I was wondering if I should just trade it in while it's still worth something.

JCJC

31-01-2010, 09:00 PM

Hell, didn't really want to start a debate on the pro's and cons !
Just wondered if anyone had seen any really good deals ?

I have a car that qualifies, and i'd like to keep it, but it has an electrical fault that so far 3 garages can't find the answer to. The battery keeps going flat (had a new battery, obviously) but I can't keep throwing money at it. I'm now a the point where my local garage says I can swop this and that (alternator for example) but there's no guarantees, it would be a process of elimination and hopefully fixing it that way !!

I'm not interested in any crazy finance deals, i'd be looking to swop the car in, if it comes to it, and then paying for the new car.

I'd love to keep my 99T Reg Puma, as it's only done 50K, but if it won't start and has a dead battery every now and again, I can't live with it (well I can, bit the missus can't when she needs to ferry kids around) !

Our old primera 96' was dumping over the christmas period, we had the amp meter on the battery, took out the fuses one by one etc but unable to find the drain, into main dealer, replaced battery, still dumping pulled all fuses still 3amp drain, disconnected alternator and the drain stopped, new alternator and the cars as good as ever, 160k and still going strong - cost me £550 (mostly labour) and possibly more than its worth !! and while the work was going on there were no guarantees and we were looking at 400plus work done before the alternator.
We were looking at Skodas, Vat off some models new, discount on others seemed to be worth more than the scrapage scheme, looked at 6 month old and less than 10k and they seemed an even better deal. but now we are trusting the primera again, roll on the mot.

topher2009

31-01-2010, 09:35 PM

Andy,

As JCJC says, the alternators can pack in and cause a current drain - its not just them not charging the battery properly - typcially the diodes go and its cheaper to buy a recon alternator than pay the labour to replace the diodes.

How long does it take for the battery to go dead - i.e. the car wont start? If it is overnight, it may just be worth disconnecting the alternator one night and see if it makes a difference - there is normally a plug on the back of them that you can remove. Dont forget the puma is the same as a fiesta - running gear wise, so there are hundreds in scrappys so a replacement alternator will be a cheap fix if you can be confident that is the problem. Other issues can be the radiator fans where the relays go and they stay on long after you have walked in the house - and they stay for 2 hours till the battery is flat!

andys

31-01-2010, 09:35 PM

Cheers for the reply.

Can you tell m how I check for a drain myself, I have a digital voltmeter and it would be good to try the things you did, especially disconnecting the alternator to see if it's draining whilst it's stood still !

Southwell

31-01-2010, 10:20 PM

Put the multimeter across the battery and set the car at a fast idle, you should be getting 13.5-14.4 volts across the terminals. If you get much lower that can point to the alternator.

traffman

31-01-2010, 10:54 PM

If i were you id keep the Puma as its been widely regarded as a very tidy handling fun car.

For the money your going to spunk on a new eurobox youd be hard pushed to have as much fun as you would in your lovely little Puma.

JCJC

01-02-2010, 08:32 AM

remove the negative from the battery and put a multimeter in between the -ve cable and the battery terminal, see what current is being drawn with everything off

Our alternator was intermitent if you like, would show charging at 13.5+ volts when the engine was running, but with the ignition off the battery drained in 4 or 5 hours !! We were in a cycle of charging the battery overnight and disconnecting when not making short trips to the shops, (RC leisure battery ready to go as standby !)

you can search for 'parasitic drain' but as topher said, remove negitive battery connection, set multimeter to amps and connect between neg battery terminal & removed cable, we were showing 3amps ( I still dont quite believe it), remember interior lights may be on ect.

I also saw references to bad neg lead connection to the bodywork as being capable of draining .

Good luck

topher2009

01-02-2010, 03:33 PM

if you do measure a drain, do a sense check... your car probably has a 55amp hour battery (maybe a 65 if it is the 1.7) so it should do 55 amps for one hour before being flat, if your current draw is 1 amp then the battery will go flat in just over 2 days, if it is 5 amps then its an overnight job.

Keep asking questions if not sure or message me and I will send you mobile number.

andys

01-02-2010, 03:55 PM

Cheers for the help there.

One question, is there an easy way to check if the battery has drained a lot, if the car starts.

Sometimes when it starts on a morning, I can get where i'm going, leave it through the day, then it won't start in the evening...

Is there a simple way of checking the state of the battery in the morning before I set off to see if it's at say 30% charged, i.e has discharged but not gone flat yet ?

Reason I ask is the missus drives the car and i'd like to know the battery is indeed 100% full before she goes out in it. I can put the digital voltmeter on it, but it will I guess show 12.4 volts or similar even if it's approaching going flat,

bodgit

01-02-2010, 04:10 PM

As soon as you start it it will drain more power from it. You could do with one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/12V-CAR-BOAT-BATTERY-BOOSTER-900AMP-JUMP-START-STARTER_W0QQitemZ380202813429QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK _Recovery_Tools?hash=item5885da87f5
Some diy stores sell them for about £25 but at least after you've shown the missus how to use it she would,nt get stuck anywhere if the battery did discharge. Only thing is once you've used it , it needs to be recharged for the next time.

andys

01-02-2010, 08:48 PM

Yep. Already bought one of those jump star things !!

Just being out to the car after leaving it stood for 3 days, unused. I put my battery charger on the battery to see how long it took before it cut off having charged the battery. Took all of 2 mins !!

So, it looks like the battery is only draining when the car is running, although on the drive the alternator appears to be pumping out good voltage ??

Any ideas anyone that's helped so far ?

Cheers. Andy.

bodgit

01-02-2010, 09:17 PM

Found this which may help
Current drain on the battery can be checked with an ammeter. Make sure the ignition is off, then disconnect one of the battery cables. Connect one ammeter lead to the battery and the other to the cable. The normal current drain on most vehicles should be about 25 milliamps or less. If the key-off drain exceeds 100 milliamps, there's an electrical problem that requires further diagnosis.
Finding the hidden current drain can be time consuming. The easiest way to isolate the problem is to pull one fuse at a time from the fuse panel until the ammeter reading drops. This will tell you which circuit is draining the battery. Then you have to check the wiring and each of the components in that circuit to pinpoint the problem.
more on http://autos.yahoo.com/maintain/repairqa/battery_electrical/ques028_3.html

purpletimbo

03-02-2010, 10:28 AM

One of the Taxi guys had exactly the same weird fault on his Omega, started fine, and went flat over a day's work, tried and tested everything, finally left it at main dealer running, and they discovered one of the battery cables had corroded internally, and was heating up when in use, that flattened the battery in a days running no problem, they had done batteries and alternators beforehand to no avail. easy check, just attach jump leads direct fromthe battery to car and bypass the cables, to see if you get better volts than without, at the ends, ie back of starter and engine block.Or just leave it running and see if they heat up.
:thumbsup:

andys

24-03-2010, 09:43 AM

Arghhh - my puma is driving me mad, anyone got any ideas re my latest info ?

----
Put on a brand new alternator this week.

Then did a 20 mile run, with the lights on, parked the car up for the night. Next morning won't start. It did exactly the same last tuesday, after exactly the same run. So I sort of knew it wouldn't start this morning.

It seems that if I drive a decent distance with the lights on, then leave the car over night, it's pretty dead the next day. It almost turned over this morning, but then didn't and just clicked away to itself.

Any ideas ? I'm pretty much out of options now, the battery is new, the alternator is new and the battery goes flat after a run with the lights on ?

mark christopher

24-03-2010, 10:07 AM

id say your problem is in the wiring, how many wires are on the alternator? One main battery then one two or three on the other 'plug, if its got smart charge forget std diag. A good auto electrician should diag that in less than an hour.
You need a full current draw and voltage drop test doing
Worked at ford for over 15 plus years,

topher2009

24-03-2010, 10:14 AM

mmm, I presume when you turn your lights off and walk away the lights are actually off and its not a relay sticking and keeping them on? (I had this with a new relay last year in my MG)

I think Mark is on the right lines though, good auto electricians can normally sort these things quite quickly!

andys

24-03-2010, 10:27 AM

Hi Chaps.

Can anyone recommend a good auto electrician in the Leeds area ? I've had two local garages look at the car, one used their preferred auto electrician and neither found any problems. I don't know what they did, probably just the things i can do myself !!

andys

24-03-2010, 10:29 AM

Mark.

The alternator has one thick red wire bolted to it on the fron, then a small pug with 2 thin wires running from it, that's all.

purpletimbo

24-03-2010, 10:46 AM

Best autoelectrician if they are still there, behind Lawson's of tadcaster Ford dealer, on the road out of tadcaster back towards York, always sorted our taxis out, even with bizarre faults, and will happpily do a fix it rather than new parts only, they totally rewired our montego once when driver put CB power cable under handbrake lever, burned loom from light switch on stick right through, he rebuilt loom from scratch and very reasonable.
Ah they have moved
D & I Auto Electrics
Unit 1-2 / Rookes Enterprise Park
Little Catterton Lane
Tadcaster
North Yorkshire LS24 8EA
Telephone:
01937 832441

Try them, a phone call can't hurt.

mark christopher

24-03-2010, 10:49 AM

one of those small wires goes to the pcm, one goes to the warning lamp
Just drop ur rear seats and make sure boot lamp is going out if you have one

Kash

24-03-2010, 12:21 PM

Agree with Mark Check your boot light just incase..
However if its only draining while running it sounds like you have a dead short....
Whats your battery voltage with car running, lights on etc?

PaulRotheram

24-03-2010, 01:18 PM

What a load of shit you have just posted, to say car dealers are on there arse now at this time is just verbal bullshit. They have never had it so good with this scrappage scheme, most have reported record sales for this time of year. The likes of Ford, Vauxhall, Fiat etc like the ones you have just mentioned above, and whats this load of shit about playing hard to get? Dealers will always make money out of you no matter what, for example Vauxhall where knocking Vectras out at £8000 less than the rrp, alright the new insignia was due out and at the time people wasnt buying cars, but if you worked it out after all the interest was paid and the final payment went through, you actually paid the rrp for the car.
Alright i have seen deals of a low percentaged, but you will not get £4000 knocked off that price, but if you px your car in the scrappage scheme you will get the £2000 off. Ive even seen deals where the manufacturer to match the 2k, but i bet they make it back on interest, thats how they work.

Not been on the scene for a while and only just seen this,

Firstly i'd just like to say what a complete and utter bell-end you are! The language is hardly needed - if you disagree why not do it in a better mannor instead of hurling abuse at the nearest chance you can.

You say they have it so good, do you even read the newspapers and see how much debt these companys are in right now? Ford for example were in the deep end with huge losses! Yes the scrappage scheme has helped them all out of trouble - as thats the idea of it! get rid of the old bangers, reduce costs for buyers, increase sales for the motor industry!

However as my initial post said you can get better deals by playing hard to get / hard-ball, if you can work out simple maths and add 2+2 then you wouldnt get your self in the situation to pay the full RRP.
Dealers work along stats, their HQ will give them a quota of cars they should aim to sell in a particular month, they NEED to shift them cars to keep good stats, along with good profit margins. With this in mind they will lower the costs if you push them.
The scrappage scheme CAN be good, but only if you do it right, as someone has already said there's plenty of horror stories of companies tieing you in to high rate finance deals where your paying back the 2k anyway plus a lot more.

One thing I picked out of your load of crap i'd call a thread post, is you were actually right in one point. Dealers WILL make money out of you, common sense would hopefully prevail here and you'd realise the idea is to make them make less money out of you!
If you want cheap, go to wrecks 'r' us garage on the corner, if you want a reliable, warrantied, quality car then you know your gonna have to pay the price!

Agree or not, I couldn't care, you seem too narrow minded to even warrant a second responce. :)

andys

24-03-2010, 01:30 PM

Agree with Mark Check your boot light just incase..
However if its only draining while running it sounds like you have a dead short....
Whats your battery voltage with car running, lights on etc?

Hi Kash.

Will check the boot light, but i'm pretty sure there isn't one as i've looked for this before.
With a voltmeter on the battery and it running the voltage is around 14.5 volts, same with the lights on etc.

It does seem that it only goes flat after a run with the lights on ?

It's cost me 1 new battery, 1 new alternator and 2 garage bills so far, so i'm very close to calling it a day ! Thing is the car is 10 years old with only 50k on the clock and it's great in every other respect, I just need to sort this fault....

mark christopher

24-03-2010, 02:34 PM

Hi Kash.

Will check the boot light, but i'm pretty sure there isn't one as i've looked for this before.
With a voltmeter on the battery and it running the voltage is around 14.5 volts, same with the lights on etc.

It does seem that it only goes flat after a run with the lights on ?

It's cost me 1 new battery, 1 new alternator and 2 garage bills so far, so i'm very close to calling it a day ! Thing is the car is 10 years old with only 50k on the clock and it's great in every other respect, I just need to sort this fault....

you can have 14 volts, but no amps, which will cause your problem, can be caused by excess resistance in wiring, poor earths etc, thats why i advised a good auto electrician