New Schumacher 4wd

[Chris Elworthy]

Ive heard recently from a reliable source who knows Robin Schumacher that there is a new Schumacher 4wd in the pipeline. No further information Im aware of but I could speculate that it may be based on the Mi3 Touring car which has been exellent since its release around Christmas time.
Anybody else heard anything?

[DCM]

Will, not to burst your bubble but the Mi3 has some issue's, and if they insist on basing in on a TC platform without some serious reworking of the bulkheads, be a big white elephant.

[ryan]

The xxx4 was based on the losi touring car, never was a great success on the rough stuff. Touring cars and off road needs are entirely different so why base an off road car on a touring car? doesn't make sense to me. xx4 was not based on a touring car look what an amazing car that is.

Would be good to see yet another 4wd in the market which has suddenly took off.

[DCM]

no, you are near but still wide of the mark Ryan, with the XXX4 they weren't jsut stuck with the drivetrain but also the chassis, which did work on flat blue grooved tracks.

Now, the only thing they could use is the pulleys from the Mi3, the layshaft is no good, it isn't up to it in TC, let alone off-road.

[tc2k]

Is this the layshaft that is only attached on one side?

[DCM]

yes.

[GRIFF55]

Be nice if they do make another 4wd, the cat was great;)

[DCM]

the Cat was and still is ace, the Mission was an off-shoot to an extent, but I can't see other than the pulleys being taken from the Mi3 to a new buggy, but then the pulleys are nearly the same as the Cat3000

[Lee Martin]

whys the shoe maker thread in the AE threads?

[Chris Doughty]

whys the shoe maker thread in the AE threads?

I was thinking exactly the same thing... :p

[PaulRotheram]

eh, what, no it isnt :cool: ;)

[MK999]

doughty and lee gone a bit nuts i think :eh?: need to stop sniffing the tyre glue or something :rolleyes: :D

[PaulRotheram]

mahahaha...

[MattW]

DCM, you're quite correct that the Mi3 layshaft wouldn't be much use in an off rd car - but do tell me what is wrong with it for touring cars???
and the bulkheads??

[tyreman]

Go on Matt;)

[DCM]

it drops, it could of done with a beefier screw fixing, otherwise it is a lot of pressure on an M3 screw to hold the layshaft in place. The bulkheads just don't seem suitable for off-road use, plus the way the suspension is mounted.

So if Schumacher WERE to make a 4wd buggy, they would need to make new bulkheads, front and rear, new layshaft mount, steering, dare I say, weight distribution too. If they were to slap a set ouf tall shock towers and buggy wishbones, they might as well not bother.

I do wish they go for a 4wd buggy though.

[MattW]

drops?? hmm, must keep an eye on that one. So far mine has been fine running 3.5 brushless, and no spur gear issues at all running 64dp. but you can never be too careful.

I still don't see any massive problems with the bulkheads. Weight distribution is fairly easy to work with. Everyone knows that "stick pack" doesn't generally work for off rd.

[DCM]

I wouldn't be 'convinced' of the bearing carriers staying put with the top loading bulkeads, not entirely convinced on them in a TC but time will tell.

I just hope they just don't do a parts bin special to make a buggy, if you get my drift.

[Welshy40]

mmmm schumacher making a new 4wd, buggy maybe, well maybe they should scrap all the junk they made since the last great buggy they made, the bosscat, and the cars that followed were pretty poor and badly designed.

Sorry but its a fact. The Cat had an awful front end and yes it wasnt a very strong car. Yes it made the basildon worlds A and yes Ben Sturnham made 2nd (Kevin Moore was really 3rd) but still not a good design. Great drivers make the As with bricks. Well Ben was a great driver as he managed to beat Brian Kinwald with a schumacher crappy designed 2wd at the Bristish Grand Prix not long after the worlds, (unsure if it was 1995 but wasnt 93 as kinwald raced a pred in 4wd) which wasnt designed well in the first place.

The design team needs to wake up and look properly at the opposition and design something new and fresh and not copy bits from all the other manufacturers, but design a proper racer like the XLS, and improve it properly like the Bosscat.

Maybe then it may be more popular again.

[Lee]

I think you should say how you feel welshy and get off the fence:D

[Welshy40]

ok, when the great designer left schumacher to those pearly gates up there the company didnt find anyone capable of taking over his position, and it appears that they just copied and altered the wrong way to make it worse rather than better.

They should find a designer capable, heck look at Kyosho, they now own Peak motors, Orion and Losi Junior who has done wonders in designing new 4wd buggies that have dominated, so it now looks like if schumacher want a piece of the action maybe they should look at what they originally did when they made the xls, get a good designer and a good team to develop it.

[jimmy]

If Schumacher are sponsoring this Worksop series, does that mean they care about offroad again? :o Could it be true?

[PaulRotheram]

i think they should just re-release the bosscat..?

[jimmy]

Bosscat is 15 years old isnt it? I think my Tamiya would stamp the bosscat into the ground, several times over.

[rich_cree]

mmmm schumacher making a new 4wd, buggy maybe, well maybe they should scrap all the junk they made since the last great buggy they made, the bosscat, and the cars that followed were pretty poor and badly designed.

Sorry but its a fact. The Cat had an awful front end and yes it wasnt a very strong car. Yes it made the basildon worlds A and yes Ben Sturnham made 2nd (Kevin Moore was really 3rd) but still not a good design. Great drivers make the As with bricks. Well Ben was a great driver as he managed to beat Brian Kinwald with a schumacher crappy designed 2wd at the Bristish Grand Prix not long after the worlds, (unsure if it was 1995 but wasnt 93 as kinwald raced a pred in 4wd) which wasnt designed well in the first place.

The design team needs to wake up and look properly at the opposition and design something new and fresh and not copy bits from all the other manufacturers, but design a proper racer like the XLS, and improve it properly like the Bosscat.

Maybe then it may be more popular again.


Err, you seem a bit negative about Schumacher. Why?????

As a company they have brought a one truly massive innovation into electric racing (ball diff).

British engineering is the worlds finest. I look forward to seeing what they come up with!

[Chrislong]

Err, you seem a bit negative about Schumacher. Why?????

As a company they have brought a one truly massive innovation into electric racing (ball diff).

British engineering is the worlds finest. I look forward to seeing what they come up with!

Agreed, and the designer who did that is still there - it was Cecil.

Schumacher did two great cars after the Bosscat, the Cat 2000 was a big leap up and was an instant improvement over the Bosscat and then the EC with its laydown shocks was the next step up although not quite big enough to call it a leap. It was after then when they started playing with cells down one side, and changes for the sake of being able to release and market something as new when really it was just tweaked.

They dropped back when the XX4 came out, and they failed to attempt to learn from its inovations, I am mainly thinking of the moulded tub chassis and awesomely good shock absorbers.. I don't think they ever recovered since and went backwards perhaps?

I wonder just how involved Schumacher/Phil Booth will get, who will be testing for them and are they/will they be attending any race meetings to study what is really going on rather than what they talk about is going on in a boardroom discussion? I hope they are successful anyway.

Chris

[barnyard]

Chris they have already attended races this year...

first Robin turns up to a very wet and cut short Kidderminster, then Phil Booth turns up at Bury.

As for if there is a car in the pipeline, who will be testing and if they decide to use the mi3 as a base to work from we will only know if prototypes start to hit the track

[Welshy40]

Nope im on about the Cat 2000 and the awful 2wd that was out at the same time. The cars before them were great and yes the developments they put into the cars were and still are designs that changed racing forever. Hell they won a Worlds. However they stopped redesigning and comparing the designs that were used on the Cat 2000 it appears that they took designs from Yokomo and tried to make it work without making the design better. Heck im not the only one who thinks this, but someone has got to say it.

The XLS, Procat and Bosscat as well as the cougar were and still are superb designs and at the time state of the art, so what happened? Its like their designing team just stopped working and left. They were designing the best stuff and over night they stopped and started designing rubbish.

Yes the touring cars are good at the mo and the results are good but they need to make a stunning 4wd and 2wd buggy that doesnt have similarities from other manufacturers.

Kyosho can do it well, their 2wd is an upgrade from their last in 2002 (the Ultima type R) and the ZX5 4wd is well a copy of any shaft drive out there but they did the ZX/ZXR/ZXRR/ZXS and those were a design that are still superb for belts. Yokomo as well designed from a blank piece of paper.

If kyosho can and predator can (fragile but what a design), then maybe the schumacher company should throw away all their previous designs and come up with a totally new design where the weight distirbution is like a touring car and the weight is in the centre of the chassis, and the motor as well so that it will handle like a dream and that will not only appeal to the eye but be easy to maintain and be user friendly. Maybe they should have a look at what Losi were running at the off road worlds in 95, as the prototype was a great idea, however they are not going to produce it, so might give schumacher an idea on the chassis layout.

If they do then maybe theyd get my custom, and hopefully much more business, and maybe another title.

[Lee]

If you use a touring car layout on a buggy the chances are it wont work, (losi xxx4)
Tourers dont have to fly so the balance is totally different.

Also there must be a reason why losi didnt put that prototype car into production?

[Chrislong]

Also there must be a reason why losi didnt put that prototype car into production?


What if that reason is costs and not function?

[Lee]

Exactly chris,

we dont see what the teams try but im sure they try as many options as possible before we even see them at the track.

And even when prototypes appear trackside they usually have a few changes before going into production.

I remember about 98` losi did a gold pre production tourer that looked awesome when i saw andy moore using it, but it was never made.

[DCM]

the problem with revoloution rather than evoloution, is you can either have a sure fire winner, or a bankrupcy making flop. None of the Schumacher cars were 'bad' some were better than others. During the realms of the B3 and B3, the Cougar95/2000/fireblade were competitive on UK tracks, the likes of the B4 seen it off to the knackers yard, but then the design was really, 9 years old.

The Cat is a fine example of evoloution and I reckon, most examples wouldn't shame itself in far newer competition, and re-releasing worked for Losi. I for one would rather they brought out a car that is sorted, not a 'work in progress'.

[GRIFF55]

Good Call. Me and a mate were talking the other day about cars from the past. You think what cars were winning ten years or so ago, against the cat 2000.
Main rival was the XX4, and its still winning today, so why couldn't the cat still win with a little stronger trans??

[Welshy40]

I have to say that if they put the touring car into production for a buggy then I have to admit its a good design, even if its not a well balanced design.

But what is wrong with making the car totally balanced so the weight isnt an issue. They appear to follow the other designers rather than think about how to improve the weight distribution (including where to put the motor) and work from there onwards.

[Chris Doughty]

I have to say that if they put the touring car into production for a buggy then I have to admit its a good design, even if its not a well balanced design.

But what is wrong with making the car totally balanced so the weight isnt an issue. They appear to follow the other designers rather than think about how to improve the weight distribution (including where to put the motor) and work from there onwards.

I don't want to ever see another TC with long wishbones again.

I think 4WD design is too far advanced now for any company to get away with that and win.

[BORMAC]

This sounds like a good time to ask some of you more experienced racers about my Bosscat works.Ive kitted out my buggy with a 5.5 brushless setup and the car is what I consider to be very fast.The car is geared perfectly and performs well.I always liked the look of the Procat so I rebuilt the car with a Procat rear shock tower and Im running the Procat body and V-wing.The problem Im having with the car is it tends to slide out side ways in the rear too much.Im running Proline 'HOLE SHOTS' all round (these work best at the tracks I drive at).Being an Australian club racer our tracks are quite dusty and I'd like to hear what you guys might think will tackle the rear end problem.Any suggestions will go a long way.I might add that I think Ive messed with the droop a little by using medium length shock shafts with long shock bodies and no sway bars at all.I have been thinking of running a bigger wing with more down force.How free do you recommend the diffs should be too?Cheers-Jason.

[SPRCIAL AGENT]

I think that you will find it will be a metric bj4 with 2 belts.
Don't you think that you should see what it is going to be like before you say it is going to be a coverted TC. Parts will be from the TC but that is the same with the Atomic/Bj4, Yokomo and so on.

Mat white will test it as he is Schumachers top UK lad and don't forget they have some good US drivers as well.

[super__dan]

Kyosho can do it well, their 2wd is an upgrade from their last in 2002 (the Ultima type R) and the ZX5 4wd is well a copy of any shaft drive out there but they did the ZX/ZXR/ZXRR/ZXS and those were a design that are still superb for belts.

For once I agree with some of what James has said. What I don’t agree with is that the latest laser is a great car or the equal of any other shaft drives. I actually consider it to be the weakest of any the competition 4wd cars right now. Cheap yes, but not actually that good. I base that on watching them, a go of one (maybe two) and the fact last year 50% of 4wd cars at the NE regionals were lasers and now there is only 1 or 2 of 60-70 cars.

[jimmy]

more lazers than X5's dan.:D

I hope barry kicks your arse at southport national :D

FREE STICKERS TO ANY zx5 DRIVER THAT BEATS DAN AT A NATIONAL

[NeilD]

Come on Jimmy you could offer 100K and the cash would be safe.:D

[jimmy]

nah, give a car to chris long - he always beats dan! ;)

[NeilD]

Any car?

[super__dan]

The knife went in and then was twisted!

Harsh but fair? Probably ;)

[NeilD]

No pressure for the Belgium GP then.;)

[Welshy40]

Leave Dan alone, he is an ok driver, who hung out with the wrong crowd at the wrong time (isnt that right Dan) but he is right.

Besides even tho i am a kyosho nut the shaft car (zx5) is no way close to a good car, sorry but they need to go back and do what they originally did and design great cars.

[NeilD]

Like Schumacher.

[jimmy]

Leave Dan alone, he is an ok driver, who hung out with the wrong crowd at the wrong time (isnt that right Dan) but he is right.

Besides even tho i am a kyosho nut the shaft car (zx5) is no way close to a good car, sorry but they need to go back and do what they originally did and design great cars.


I think you are being rather unfair there - It is indeed a good car. Saying it isn't needs qualifying otherwise it's just a silly statement. Let your old lazer rest in pieces. ;)


......I still do not agree with you and I think that belts are going to keep winning the worlds
You ~2004

[jimmy]

Has Matt White said he'll be running a schumacher 4wd then? Last time I spoke to him was a few months ago and he seemed genuine about not knowing anything about various rumours (mostly revolving around schumacher re-releasing the car2k).

Matt?

[PaulRotheram]

i love you jimmy.

considering the zx5.. there are not any F1 drivers i can think of who are running one this year, is nathan ralls running one, or has he swapped?

The car simply needs backing up. look at oOple and the rb5/501x.. it got backed up and hit a double A main.

[Borat]

look at oOple and the rb5/501x.. it got backed up and hit a double A main.

Hi fiiiivvvveeee! :cool:

[Chrislong]

nah, give a car to chris long - he always beats dan! ;)

LOL, Im sure he'll get his own back for that memorable day at Bury not so long ago. :D

The ZX5 isn't up to much, but in the hands of Barry Weldon is a rocket ship (but im yet to see if he is as fast with it at anywhere other than Southport), in the hands of anyone else seems to be poor.

Chris

[DanW]

Lazer ZX5 is definately a good and competative car, its not making big A finals because its not being put in the hands of the best drivers.

I'm not saying its the best 4wd about, but its fairly easy to get a half decent set-up going, and its handling is very neutral and forgiving. Spare parts are readily available and reasonable on price.

back to topic.... whether the new schumy is a brand new car, modded cat2000 or TC hybrid its got to be good news for off-road. More makers are coming back to off-road which means they must anticiapte it to be a growing market.

[MattW]

Has Matt White said he'll be running a schumacher 4wd then? Last time I spoke to him was a few months ago and he seemed genuine about not knowing anything about various rumours (mostly revolving around schumacher re-releasing the car2k).

Matt?

Hi Jimmy.......:p :mad:

[NeilD]

I think the simple fact is Schumacher shouldn't have pulled out. They could have quite easily kept the 3k up and running even if they were leaning more towards TC and RTR.

[BradR]

British engineering is the worlds finest.
I know this forum is populated by mostly British racers, but not completely. Are you trying to start a potentially ugly debate? ;)

[Chrislong]

Brad, Rich is correct though. Since mass production has gone to the Far East, what we have in Britain is the best skill in the world and a talent for niche engineering.... is this not why most F1 teams are based here, Rich would know that more than anyone else in here. ;)

[antnee]

hmm, wonder if they'll do a new 2WD car aswell? All spells good news for my club(West Bridgford Model Car Club) We have good links with schuey(they sponser the sunday series) and from september we're going to be running a buggie class indoors aswell :) i've been converted :p

brushless and a 2wd what could go wrong?:cool: :wtf:

[Welshy40]

Im comment to the ZX5 not being up to scratch, which it isnt in terms of quality that the lazers were up until the ZX5.

They should have named it something else as all previous lazers were belts and were built like bricks.

Also the previous Lazer won the Euros and nats in the hands of Ellis and Jamie so why go from really good design to a car that basically looks like something a beginner back yard racer would buy.

They didnt put any effort into the standard kit design which is why its not a good car. You cant win with it out of the box, whereas you could with the pevious lazers.

And also it is a shaft design so in my books it doesnt deserve the Lazer name.

If they are updating the 2wd from the 2002/2003 version then why not do a decent 4wd design as well. I hope they are.

[DCM]

thats a rather odd thing to say, thats like saying that AE shouldn't of called the TC5 a TC5 because it is a belt and not shaft like the TC3/4.

As for the ZX5, the Pred was fragile, but at least the ZX5 is a reasonable price...

[PaulRotheram]

I think you need to get your arse out of the past James. Things have changed alot since the older generation of cars were around, companys change, as do their employees.

How do you know they didn't put any effort in to the car? what would you know about making an entire car out of moulded parts? From my estimation of your poor views, not much i'd say. Maybe looking at it now they could of done better, but when it came out the car was good enough.

And you're forgetting how quickly 4wd has evolved over the last few seasons, the offroad market has boomed in popularity and manufacturers are putting everything in to it.

Take a look at the review Jimmy has made of the current lazer, it looks good enough to me, it just needs a decent driver.

If you think the older lazers are better.. get yours back on the track.. otherwise accept the fact things have changed.


Back to schumacher please....

[DanW]

They should have named it something else as all previous lazers were belts and were built like bricks.

Also the previous Lazer won the Euros and nats in the hands of Ellis and Jamie so why go from really good design to a car that basically looks like something a beginner back yard racer would buy.


Your right, old lazers were built like bricks, they were heavy like bricks too!

I think if you took the old lazer ZXR design it would'nt be competative today.

Kyosho have stepped up to the mark and released a "modern" car, moulded composite chassis etc etc. I agree the new car isnt as competative out the box as some of the competetion.

Maybe if Kyosho gave the car to the likes of Ellis and did some proper race team development then no reason it can't win Euros again. Main problem is Kyosho don't seem to be operating an off-road team.

Anyway why are you so anti shaft drive? World Champ is a shaft drive car. I also remember broken belts on ZXR's and that was in the day of 13T motors and 1700s.

:wtf:

[jimmy]

James, those comments are bordering on the ridiculous! no team drivers, car is half the price or less than the car you are talking about and you can buy it!. etc etc.

[Northy]

Well, I think ;);) there will be a new 4wd and then if that is succesful a new 2wd.

G

[jimmy]

love to see it - it was a shame they gave up.

[burgie]

Also the previous Lazer won the Euros and nats in the hands of Ellis and Jamie so why go from really good design to a car that basically looks like something a beginner back yard racer would buy.

What complete rubbish

There is a Lazer winning the NW regional series, beating those cars that are supposedly so much better than the lazer....

I think that a driver who can't win races looks blames his car before his ability....

:rolleyes:

[NeilD]

If you look at all of the Lazers they haven't, to my knowledge won a Worlds (i wait to be corrected) and haven't being too popular with this nations top drivers. Schumacher "were" innovators, Cecil is a genius and when a company loses a genius it is bound to suffer. Right up until the BossCat there was a natural evolution of the CAT family and then came the 2K. A very competitive and successful car. I would really like to know how much Schumacher spent and R&D for the 4K before they pulled the plug and who will develop the new car if it ever happens. Most people who know me will vouch for the fact i love Schumacher 4WD (ProCat was the best) and i would love to see them do something BUT are they too late?

If this doesn't make sense i apologise the Rioja is flowing.

[Cockerill]

so why go from really good design to a car that basically looks like something a beginner back yard racer would buy.

They didnt put any effort into the standard kit design which is why its not a good car. You cant win with it out of the box, whereas you could with the pevious lazers.


Maybe this is the market that Kyosho were aiming for, hence the low price (compared to other 4wd's) and many plastic moulded components, instead of Carbon Fibre/Alloy.

I take it you always ran your legendary Lazer in kit form with no optional extras?

Any way back on topic ...

[terry.sc]

James you know how much of a Lazer fan I am, but at least I know it's faults. The old ZX-R was the greatest club racers car but not the most competitive at the top end. That would make the ZX-5 the perfect replacement, especially for the money.
mmmm schumacher making a new 4wd, buggy maybe, well maybe they should scrap all the junk they made since the last great buggy they made, the bosscat, and the cars that followed were pretty poor and badly designed.

Sorry but its a fact. The Cat had an awful front end and yes it wasnt a very strong car. Yes it made the basildon worlds A and yes Ben Sturnham made 2nd (Kevin Moore was really 3rd) but still not a good design. Great drivers make the As with bricks. Well Ben was a great driver as he managed to beat Brian Kinwald with a schumacher crappy designed 2wd at the Bristish Grand Prix not long after the worlds, (unsure if it was 1995 but wasnt 93 as kinwald raced a pred in 4wd) which wasnt designed well in the first place.
1993 Worlds, A final. 3 Schumacher CAT 2000s qualified 2,3 and 6. One Lazer ZX-R qualified 10th. CATs finished 2,3,4. Lazer finished 9th. I would class that a great result for Schumacher. Great drivers make the As with bricks.As the Lazer was driven by Joel Johnson who qualified on pole in 2wd and only just got the Lazer in the A from your statement would you not class that as the brick?


The design team needs to wake up and look properly at the opposition and design something new and fresh and not copy bits from all the other manufacturers, but design a proper racer like the XLS, and improve it properly like the Bosscat.Well as loads of the manufacturers have now copied the two CAT 3000 chassis and transmission layouts surely the others have copied Schumacher? Schumacher designed the original CAT for Andy Dobson then spent 3 years developing a car other racers could drive, then took 4 years to get to the Bosscat. The CAT 200 was a fresh design that worked well from the start.

[terry.sc]

ok, when the great designer left schumacher to those pearly gates up there the company didnt find anyone capable of taking over his position, and it appears that they just copied and altered the wrong way to make it worse rather than better. Who was that then? Cecil is still around, Phil Booth is still working with them and Phil Davies only left us in 2001, that covers the 80s design team.

They should find a designer capable, heck look at Kyosho, they now own Peak motors, Orion and Losi JuniorSchumachers designers are more than capable of designing great cars, look at the Rascal and Riot from their current line up. Just because they aren't race buggies doesn't mean they aren't well designed.


The XLS, Procat and Bosscat as well as the cougar were and still are superb designs and at the time state of the art, so what happened? Its like their designing team just stopped working and left. They were designing the best stuff and over night they stopped and started designing rubbish. They started designing cars that didn't need an engineering degree to put together (remember getting a length of wire, two balls and a drawing and you had to make your own XLS anti roll bar?) and didn't need rebuilding every week. I always raced Kyosho back then as I couldn't be bothered doing so much work between meetings.


Yes the touring cars are good at the mo and the results are good but they need to make a stunning 4wd and 2wd buggy that doesnt have similarities from other manufacturers.
Kyosho can do it well, their 2wd is an upgrade from their last in 2002 (the Ultima type R) and the ZX5 4wd is well a copy of any shaft drive out there...both very similar to other manufacturers?but they did the ZX/ZXR/ZXRR/ZXS and those were a design that are still superb for belts. With a transmission and chassis layout first seen on the XLS:D Modern chassis are better performers though due to better weight distribution and lower CoG.
The latest Predator looks remarkably similar to the original Pred, except they worked out that touring car style weight distribution doesn't work and went to saddle packs for better balance. Mounting the batteries at the rear of the chassis helps put more weight over the rear wheels for traction and it seems to work.
I have never thought putting the batteries down one side and trying to balance that weight by putting everything else on the other side was a great idea, but it was driven by JRMCAs rule in touring that only stick pack batteries could be used rather than any technical advantage. Works even less well in off road and the only thing that puts me off the ZX-5.

Also the previous Lazer won the Euros and nats in the hands of Ellis and Jamie so why go from really good design to a car that basically looks like something a beginner back yard racer would buy.
The Lazer ZX-R that won only one Euros in 92 had a pair of big money drivers using it. The Yokomo Dogfighter was the most successful car at the time so is it no wonder that the CAT 2000 was similar. Time has moved on and the Lazer design is 18 years old. The old cars are still a good club racer, like the CAT 2000, but they aren't going to win a national again.


If they do then maybe theyd get my custom, and hopefully much more business, and maybe another title.I guess it would have to be a very special car to get your custom James.:D

The Lazer ZX-5 is a great car and excels at what it was designed to do. It might not win the worlds but it's a perfect club car for the majority of racers who can't afford a TRF501, BJ4 or BCX. Cars and spares are readily available and at a decent price. I suspect Kyosho will sell a lot more ZX-5s around the world than any other competition buggy (apart from Losi due to them having a 10 year head start!)

The problem for Kyoshos image is that it isn't going to be used by F1 drivers unless they either put together a race team or build a version with lots of shiny alloy and carbon bling bits with a price tag to match like all the others.

Look at the Ultima RB5, no one runs it because all the fast guys run B4s or XXX-CRs so everyone else does as well. As Stu has proved it is more than capable of winning but it's going to be a long time before you see many of them at nationals.

[terry.sc]

Back on subject...

Although it's hard to come up with something innovative if anyone can it has to be Schumacher. They brought us the ball diff, blade driveshafts and just look at the Mi3 for innovative ideas.

I hope Schumacher learn from Kyosho and put together a proper race team to develop it, which would almost certainly guarantee plenty of sales in the UK, getting top drivers that aren't tied to other companies might be awkward though. Although I'm glad to hear of a new CAT 4wd it is a shame that race cars these days are very much a niche market. I can see why the CAT 4000 was dropped (why spend a fortune trying to win races when you can sell loads more trucks by just putting big wheels and big engines in them) but it's got to be good that they see off road being a viable proposition again.

[HKP]

Blimey.. if nothing else, the amount of discussion in this thread proves that people are still very passionate about Schumacher cars!

The sad thing is.. as much as I support a new car from them (and I've made that clear on their forum) by releasing a new car now, Schumacher are getting into slightly crowded market. If they had released the CAT 4K when they said they would (when the only competition was the ZX5 and BJ4) the head start would have meant we'd all be running one now.

It looks like it might be a uphill struggle for the guys from Northampton now but, like Terry says, if anyone can bring innovation to class where the cars are starting to look a bit like each other :p Schumacher can!

[GRIFF55]

A company from the uk, who knows how to make a good car, can surely design something that would excell on british tracks. I think if they pull this off, even at this time of year, it will convert alot of drivers.
Roll on next season, looks like its gona be a cracker for 4wd!! (or is it 2?)

[Welshy40]

What complete rubbish

There is a Lazer winning the NW regional series, beating those cars that are supposedly so much better than the lazer....

I think that a driver who can't win races looks blames his car before his ability....

:rolleyes:


I am pointing out the obvious here, the ZX5 hasnt won the big titles, so it isnt as good as its predecessor, which has. Yes the ZX and ZXR never won the worlds but did make the A final. Still the ZXR won the Euros and nationals

I also have to agree with Griff55, the company has had a down period in buggies, but I still think that there is some magic left and hope they find it soon as it would be a major boost if they can do what they did with the xls and blow the opposition away. I think that now they will do some good as not only has the competition caught up but pulled away and thats when they will (hopefully) be dangerous

I would buy one if it was a good design and I am a kyosho nut, but I did buy schumachers XLS (superb) Pro cat and Bosscat and couldnt fault them. So I hope they can do it again and also not do a Kyosho and bring out a shaft, but a belt.

Terry wrote this - ''James you know how much of a Lazer fan I am, but at least I know it's faults. The old ZX-R was the greatest club racers car but not the most competitive at the top end. That would make the ZX-5 the perfect replacement, especially for the money.''

Mmmm well does the Euros title and Nationals title mean it wasnt competitive, as it was. Ellis wasnt paid either, he just had the best car at the Euros and tqd a lap ahead of the rest. It was quick. Competitive yes, and all the kyosho team were very impressive in getting the results.

[Lee]

[quote=Welshy40;48099]I I am a kyosho nut,quote]


I dont believe you:rolleyes:

[PaulRotheram]

I am pointing out the obvious here, the ZX5 hasnt won the big titles, so it isnt as good as its predecessor, which has. Yes the ZX and ZXR never won the worlds but did make the A final. Still the ZXR won the Euros and nationals


Are you purposely ignoreing what people say? The ZX5 hasnt won 'the big titles' yet due to it has no backing........................................... ....:rolleyes:

[TRF_Tastic]

Isnt this a Schumacher Thread or am I missing something?

[PaulRotheram]

soon to be a bloody closed one!

[NeilD]

A new Schumacher 4WD would be welcome by the majority but i feel they need a good driver to develop it.

[mole2k]

My local club untill about 2 years ago was practically all schumacher cat 3000's and cat 2000's with the occasional exception. Most of the members were holding out till the 4k was released but when it was canned everybody went seperate ways and bought different cars from losi, predator, koyosho, tamiya, etc.

[Garry]

Schumacher already have a few good drivers on their books who could peddle a buggy to a National A.

[NeilD]

Thats a bold statement.

[Welshy40]

Are you purposely ignoreing what people say? The ZX5 hasnt won 'the big titles' yet due to it has no backing........................................... ....:rolleyes:

Well look at Stu wood. He isnt sponsered by Kyosho or Tamiya, but instead by the host Oople (great choice on sponsering Stu) and he is doing really well. You dont need backing by the manufacturer just a driver that can drive it. But still the ZX5 car isnt that good in standard form. The quality is lacking.

Besides we have gone sideways here, back to the thread. Schumacher should make a new design and throw the old designs in the bin and come up with something new.

They have designed pedegree machines before and they can do it again without the aid of the top drivers. Besides Schumacher has Russell Williams and he is no dab hand at buggies so its not as though they dont have any one good to test the cars is it.

Schumacher have missed the race and fallen way behind, but now they should design something that will put them back up there.

[DCM]

what makes a good test and developement driver is different from a good racer..... the ability to give feedback, constructive criticism and suggestions to the design team is far more important than just 'being quick', and I am not Saying Russ isn't up to it either. Also, need more than one tester too.

I wouldn't like to see them going 'radical' on design though, I would rather a simple, well thought out car.

[Welshy40]

Well put DCM, simple, easy to work on and use.

[Lee]

Andy wallace does a hell of a lot of development for schuey.

TRUE LEGEND!!!

[antnee]

what makes a good test and developement driver is different from a good racer..... the ability to give feedback, constructive criticism and suggestions to the design team is far more important than just 'being quick',


yup, same is in most sports, in rowing even though im 16, i can coach fairly well but doing it myself is the downfall. Same goes with footie

[MattW]

I think Russ has done 2 off rd meetings in about 3-4 years - F2's at Kidderminster with borrowed cars, and F2's at Holbeach last year with his B4 and my Pred X10.

[NeilD]

Matt, will you be running this car?

[foampervert]

i hope schumacher comes up with something for the world champs. already team losi is not committing a team there. it'll be a dang shame for schumacher to do the same.

i'm actually hoping against hopes that schumacher will re-release the bosscat works (the best handling off-roader, in my opinion) updated with modern plastics and materials, re-tuned to use new wheels and tires.

[jimmy]

you dreamer! :D

It would be nice to see them there but I don't know who they could send since they don't have an off road team? Maybe we'll see something after the worlds though.

[PaulRotheram]

They might have an offroad team after losi goes tits up.. get on the phone schumacher, its your move !!

[jimmy]

lol, very diplomatic! :D Whatever Losi are doing, they are certainly reducing their off road team so I guess there are drivers available. In time for the worlds though? nahhhh, surely they don't have a car that far advanced.?!:o

[Lee]

They would only have to make a couple though:confused:

I remember a few years ago when shuey brought on board 2 of the uk`s finest just for the worlds;)

[foampervert]

you dreamer! :D

It would be nice to see them there but I don't know who they could send since they don't have an off road team? Maybe we'll see something after the worlds though.

i can dream can't i? sniff...

seriously though, with some new bits like schuey's new mi3 suspension mounts, harder arms and lighter transmission, the bosscat has world domination potential!
WORLD DOMINATION!
car handles the rough stuff the best i think.
oh, and updated shocks... those old shocks have gotta go.

-alexander
p.s. then again, nah... schumacher's prolly need to ensure mi3's success before they can embark on a new racing project. so it's likely they won't have a team either.

[HKP]

Lol! Return of the Bosscat! That's optimistic isn't it? Great cars in 1992, but I think they'd be lot better off re-releasing the CAT 2000 or 3000 as they would be closer to the pace by far now.

[vader]

seriously though, with some new bits like schuey's new mi3 suspension mounts, harder arms and lighter transmission, the bosscat has world domination potential!
WORLD DOMINATION!
car handles the rough stuff the best i think.
oh, and updated shocks... those old shocks have gotta go.

Clearly though it wouldn't be a match for a Laser ZXR/S.

[BORMAC]

I already race a Bosscat works and the car runs a 5.5 brushless! I just stripped it down for an inspection and the car hasnt bent or broken a thing! I love this car!
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/tw028.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/tw028.jpg)
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/P1040128.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/P1040128.jpg)
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/DSC02319.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/DSC02319.jpg)
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/DSC02322.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/DSC02322.jpg)

[foampervert]

I already race a Bosscat works and the car runs a 5.5 brushless! I just stripped it down for an inspection and the car hasnt bent or broken a thing! I love this car!
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/tw028.jpg (http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/tw028.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/P1040128.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/DSC02319.jpg)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/bormac/DSC02322.jpg)
wow, a Bosscat AND a Brat!

lucky pluck!http://www.oople.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[peakman]

There is now talk or rumor that horizon might be sending a team to the worlds...just have to wait and see....as far as there wheeler...the xx-4 driven by Jesse Robbers won the first main at the shootout last weekend by beating both ryan's, amezcua, easton, tebo, masami, truhe, matsuzaki and howart. Not too bad for a car design that is 10 years old. He also qualified third overall. That is the only reason, I think Losi hasn't come out with a new car yet because of the results they are getting with the xx-4 and xxx-4....but I guess we will have to wait and see.

[dallasv8]

http://www.hobbiesaustralia.com.au/Shop/productDetails.aspx?productID=0077969

probably the wrong place for it but this hobby shop in aus still say they have fireblade evo's for sale.

[Northy]

There is now talk or rumor that horizon might be sending a team to the worlds...just have to wait and see....as far as there wheeler...the xx-4 driven by Jesse Robbers won the first main at the shootout last weekend by beating both ryan's, amezcua, easton, tebo, masami, truhe, matsuzaki and howart. Not too bad for a car design that is 10 years old. He also qualified third overall. That is the only reason, I think Losi hasn't come out with a new car yet because of the results they are getting with the xx-4 and xxx-4....but I guess we will have to wait and see.


Rumour has it that Losi will NEVER design a new 4wd, and may stop even making parts for the current cars.

G

[Nick Goodall]

Shame if that is the case, it seems in the States that Nitro is still growing very fast and overtaking Electric completely now?

I still think the best compromise would be 1/8th buggy's but with 2 x Lipo's and big bad brushless motors - the sheer ease of running one would be so appealing yet they would still be as indestructable as the normal 1/8th buggy's! Best of both worlds :cool:

[Twister]

Rumour has it that Losi will NEVER design a new 4wd, and may stop even making parts for the current cars.

G

Never? One shuld never say never.. dang idid it :D too.. The xx-4 is is a very good car and with the racing history losi got they could not stop making off road cars.. that would be a shame.

[bigred5765]

remember losi is no more its horizon now

[bert digler]

remember losi is no more its horizon now

isnt that why gil losi jnr joined kyosho because he had virtually no say anymore:D

[wouter.z]

isnt that why gil losi jnr joined kyosho because he had virtually no say anymore:D

Just look at the new losi website, its all about RTR or mini crap.

i even heard that they dont produce the xx4 anymore.

[losixxx]

rtr and mini crap is what sell's and pay's the bills

the xx4 was rereleased on a limited edition just under 2 years ago so i think being limited 2 years is a fair time, plus they are continueing doing all spares for it

[Twister]

Rereleasing it was fine, but why stop awinner? The xx 4 is still winning more races than any other car so stop producing it makes no sense..

[tyreman]

Because the UK distributor hasn't even sold 15 this year, and Something like 200 worldwide were sold.
Now thats poor by anyones standards, when you consider the Losi 8ight has sold over 20,000 in this year alone and it's only been out for just over a year.

The car may be a winner but it' just not selling, because it's been out for so long now (nearly 11 years) pretty much everyone has either bought one new or off ebay.