BJ4WE Slipper

[DaHomie]

Hi guys, I need your help.
I raced my BJ4WE this weekend and twice during the meeting the slipper clutch came loose.
I have never experienced that problem before but this weekend the entire slipper was brand new so I figure I must have built it wrong somehow.

After it had loosened the first time, I took it apart, replaced the screw, steel nut and spring with new ones and also flipped the pads so that the unused side would be "slipping" to make sure I would not have problems with the glassy surface of the side that had slipped excessively.

I then loctited, the inside of the steel nut with a needle and put everything together.

On the last A-final it came loose again...

Can someone please share with me, and maybe others, details on how to build and set up the BJ4WE slipper clutch correctly so that we don't need to feel worried about it coming loose?

And if I need to loosen the slipper to have more "slip" during a meeting, how do I then make sure it does not come loose after the adjustment?

I would also like to take the opportunity to say a big THANK YOU to all you guys on the forum contributing to help out, you are all fabulous!!


Regards,
Roy

[PaulRotheram]

Did you rebuild the slipper during a race meeting? it's pretty hard to make it fully reliable through a race meeting i'm afraid to say. The one way i've found to make the slipper reliable after it has loosened off in a race meeting is to use glue on the T nut, and leave pleanty of time for it to cure.

The slipper has been a pain for me whilst running the car, there seems to be quite abit of a difference between batches of the slipper hardware (screw,t nut, springs etc) as ive built my own, and also Jimmys slipper exactly the same yet they are completely different (his works, mine backs off!).

The only definate way of a backup for a mid meeting crisis is to have another full slipper assembly ready, however I don't wish to do this my self, either.

i've recently tried to install a thrust bearing on to the screw to make the slipper adjustable and not back off (thanks to mr price for the idea) mid meeting, however ive not had time to test this out. I will let you know wether it works or not when i get chance to have a crack with it.

[jimmy]

I see an article coming paul? :D

[DaHomie]

That would be very appreciated because having to be afraid of the slipper backing off was not fun at all...

I also seem to have a problem feeling when the spring is fully compressed (to know where to set it). When I rebuilt the slipper before the meeting I probably overtightened the first T-nut since the ears came off... Is there any trick to know when it is compressed or is it just me that has no "feeling" in my fingers :-)

//Roy

[jcb]

I had similar problems at the Tivvy national with mine. Think I used three or four slippers that day, with varying degrees of success as to how long they would last before they started to slip. Sometimes it would be a couple of laps other times it would happen towards the end of the race.

Like Paul has said I think it must be something to do with the manufactuing tolerances. The one I have in S4 at the moment has performed faultlessly, but was built by the same person and in the same way as the many i had problems with at Tiverton :confused:

[PaulRotheram]

you can read me like a book jimmy haha!

I can't 'feel' the tension either when screwing it down.. I think this is some type of american witchcraft!!

I normally adjust it bit by bit, get two wrenches in the outdrives and feel how much it is slipping by hand. Alot of it is trial and error untill you get a good feel for it.

Then without overadjusting i'll then test it out in the car by doing either of the two methods as shown above in this thread.

Also, are you using the new 'steel t nut' option part? this seems to be better.. but with the lack of nylon you can't readjust it mid meeting

Stay tuned for a full on article, jimmy blew my cover haha!

[Lee]

Use the metal T-nut, and when you build it as per the manual compress the spring once with a pair of pliers, put a small amount of threadlock on the screw and tighten it 100% then back it off 3/4 of a turn and leave to set over night, buy a spare one also

[DaHomie]

Lee, I use the metal T-nut. I also compressed the spring using pliers. I am not sure however that I got the spring fully compressed since I can still turn the screw when the metal ears on the T-nut touches the bottom of the outdrive. That was what happened on my first T-nut, I snapped the ears right off it when I tightened the screw...
...And I guess it should be extremely hard to turn the screw with the spring fully compressed which in turns means that the spring was not fully compressed even when the metal ears on the T-nut was making contact with the bottom of the outdrive?

[Lee]

Yeah the T nut will touch the botom of the out drive but keep going until the spring is compressed, you will feel it but go easy, then just back it off 3/4 turn.

Also on the nut you snapped the ears off, was it a plastic one or metal?

[DaHomie]

It was the metal one! And ofcourse it will snap every time if I screw it passed the moment when the metal ears touches the bottom of the outdrives.
Could it be an idea to use a thrust washer also on the nut side of the assembly? That way it would not need to screw in so much before compressing the spring fully? Or does that have other "not wanted" side effects?

[PaulRotheram]

I'd personally try to get the slipper working properly the way the manual says.. i'm experimenting with the thrust bearing to see if there is an improovement.

The washer could work, but do it on the side with the spring and nut.
I've emailed Jason to see if they have experienced any of this on there side of the pond and if he can help with the problems.

[DaHomie]

I will take it apart and reassemble it tonight. I will try the washer on the spring/nut side between the nut and the spring.

When I take it apart tonight I will not have new slipper pads to use, should I sand the pads with 600 grit sand paper to remove the glassy surface on the pads? And maybe also on the slipper plate? And do you guys use something to clean the parts with after sanding?

Thanks for all help so far, it will be good to hear what Jason has to say about it.

//Roy

[Richard Lowe]

It was the metal one! And ofcourse it will snap every time if I screw it passed the moment when the metal ears touches the bottom of the outdrives.
You snapped the ears off the metal t-nut? I think you need to lower the torque setting on your hand :o

The way I do it is to thread lock it (with the AE factory team blue stuff) and tighten it until the ears touch the end of the slot or I feel the spring has compressed, then back it off 1 turn.
Next I put it in the car but dont put the front centre driveshaft in so I can get to the end of the screw in the slipper. Then hold the spur and one rear wheel still and turn the other rear wheel, I adjust the slipper so when doing this the slipper slips before the diff does. Then make sure you give it 24 hours for the threadlock to set.

Apart from superglue there isn't really a way to build one on raceday, it's best to have a spare built up and ready to go ;)

[Lee]

The T nut should not go past the end of the out drive slots as far as i know, it sounds like you may be missing something somewhere.
It takes a lot to snap a metal nut, it also means the spring was fully compressed before the T bit fell off.;)

[DaHomie]

You snapped the ears off the metal t-nut? I think you need to lower the torque setting on your hand :o

The way I do it is to thread lock it (with the AE factory team blue stuff) and tighten it until the ears touch the end of the slot or I feel the spring has compressed, then back it off 1 turn.
Next I put it in the car but dont put the front centre driveshaft in so I can get to the end of the screw in the slipper. Then hold the spur and one rear wheel still and turn the other rear wheel, I adjust the slipper so when doing this the slipper slips before the diff does. Then make sure you give it 24 hours for the threadlock to set.

Apart from superglue there isn't really a way to build one on raceday, it's best to have a spare built up and ready to go ;)

Yeah maybe I do, but I did not feel much resistance :D
After you have backed it off 1 turn and put it in the car, can you say about how much more you need to back it off to make the slipper slip before the diff?

//Roy

[DaHomie]

The T nut should not go past the end of the out drive slots as far as i know, it sounds like you may be missing something somewhere.
It takes a lot to snap a metal nut, it also means the spring was fully compressed before the T bit fell off.;)

I will check and doublecheck this tonight during the rebuild, but as I said I did feel any big resistance when I tightened the screw...
I have a second unit also and I will make sure they both are built so that I have a spare one to put in if it happens again.

How about the cleaning/refurbishing of the slipper parts guys, any feedback on that?

//Roy

[DaHomie]

I took the slipper apart yesterday evening and I did not find any parts missing or wrong. I even had the manual open so that I could compare...
Cleaned the parts and put everything together again with plenty of blue Loctite... And now it sits on the table curing.
I did the same to my other slipper unit so now I will have two ready for the next race.

I also did the test of mounting it in the car without the front center driveshaft. Before mounting I backed off 1 turn. But If I am to set it so that when turning one of the rear wheels the slipper slips before the diff when turning the wheel I will have to back it off another 1,5 turns approximately (total of 2,5 turns from the bottom). That feels like a lot when the manual says 1,25 turns for more slippage... and 0,75 turns for less slippage.
The diffs are set according to the manual also I should mention.

Any input on this guys?


Regards,
Roy

[Richard Lowe]

Thats OK, all the parts differ slightly; the setting in the manual is something to get you started. When I've built the slippers sometimes it's been one turn to get it to slip, somethimes two.

It doesn't matter how many turns out you are, so long as the slipper slips before the diff and the screw is threadlocked it's fine :)

[DaHomie]

Thanks Richard, your feedback is very appreciated.

Regards,
Roy

[DaHomie]

I had the chance to test the car again after the rebuild of the slipper and you know what... It came loose again after about 1,5 battery packs!! *frustrating*

i have also been wondering exactly what it is that makes the screw come loose. It is strange since everything except the pads and the spur is hexed together and can not spin individually. What I have come up with is that it has to be:
0. The metal or plastic T-nut will never move since it is "locked in" to the outdrive with the T-ears
1. Heat makes the threadlocking compound weak
2. Vibrations makes the screw unscrew itself from the t-nut
3. Loose slipper = Game over!

I have a few ideas that I would like to share and hopefully get your opinion on.
I think that it might be my Loctite that is not working the way it should (it is a "normal" strength threadlocker from Horizon Hobby) so now I have ordered the original Loctite 2701 (new formula for Loctite 270). That is the strong stuff. I also got a tip to put a drop of thin CA on the T-nut after setting it up.

But I have another idea also:
Would it be possible to set it up using a regular lock nut? If I could use a regular lock nut it should be possible to also fit in a thrust bearing that in my opinion should make the nut spin with the screw instead of the screw unscrewing (since the t-nut is locked in place by the T-ears). What do you think about that guys? I can certainly test it and feedback to the forum if you think it is worth it. If someone could tell me what size nut I would need for the diffbolt screw it would be very appreciated.

Regards,
Roy

[Richard Lowe]

It must be your threadlock that isn't suited to this use, I've never used the Loctite stuff so I dont have a point of reference.

You don't really have to start adding thrust bearings and locknuts to make it work, I use the Associated factory team locking compound and it works perfectly (the blue stuff in the grey bottle), try some of that and see how it goes :)

[PTRU]

stating the obvoius

The head of the screw is toward the front of the car and the nut to the rear. so as it accelerates it does not try to undo it self.

blue

[Chris Doughty]

haivng said that, is there not more 'force' when you jab the brakes in the air to get the nose down, the wheels stop pretty much instantly.

[PTRU]

I hope you go forward with the stick more than rearward with the stick chris:D :confused:

[Chris Doughty]

if I want the nose down on a jump I get on the brakes hard. :D

[PTRU]

and the rest of the track?:rolleyes:

[Chris Doughty]

FULL BORE! :o

[PTRU]

So it will tighten up eghhhhhhhhhh

Lov you see you soon:)

[Chris Doughty]

:rolleyes:

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Use the metal T-nut

what's the part # for the T-Nut?

Anyone tried putting a 'kink' in the end of the diff-screw like Yokomo used to do on the works 91/93? (They may even do it on present day cars but I haven't had 1 for years.)

[Chequered Flag Racing]

what's the part # for the T-Nut?


this it ?


http://www.m-k-racing.com/images/JC1133.jpg

I was just looking for the nut :p

[Lee]

Thats the baby, its only about $7 i thnk for that kit, worth every penny too!!

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Thats the baby, its only about $7 i thnk for that kit, worth every penny too!!

7$ how dare you, support your LHS, unless your State Side :mad: :mad: :)

£4.95 & ordered from MK Racing in the UK, who advertise on this site :cool:

[DaHomie]

I hate to say this since I love the car, but it is maybe worth every penny, but it is a pain in the A** to keep it from loosening.

My problem is still not solved even though I have a new original Locktite 2701 thread locker...
The screw still unscrews it self after just a couple of battery packs.

I am frustrated and sad about this problem I can not seem to resolve and if anyone comes up with a rock solid way of permamently fixing this will earn a star in my book...

I have got the tip already to:
1. Bend the screw a little on the part that is inside the metal T-nut
2. thread lok the nut by using a needle to apply the compound all the way inside the metal T-nut
3. When cured (to be on the safe side, 24hrs) use thin CA on the end of the T-nut to further aid the thread locking compound.

I have yet to try all three tips at once, but for me it will be the next step. I am however on a business trip at the moment, but will do this as soon as I am back home.

I will let you know what my experience will be when using the combination of these three.

//DaHomie

[Richard Lowe]

Have you got one of the team drivers racing near you, maybe you could ask one of them to have a go at rebuilding the slipper next time you're at a meeting together?

[PaulRotheram]

Pop jason an email, he offered to rebuild my slipper if i sent it to him to get it spot on. he would probably do the same for your self.. its worth a try!

[DaHomie]

Richard: I am sorry but I do not have that opportunity. I can bring it to the euros though so that you can have a crack at it :-)

Paul: Thanks for the tip I think I will do just that.

//DaHomie

[Lee]

7$ how dare you, support your LHS, unless your State Side :mad: :mad: :)

£4.95 & ordered from MK Racing in the UK, who advertise on this site :cool:

I have had these for a few months now, when the only place you could get stuff from was JConcepts

[Andy Moore]

Richard: I am sorry but I do not have that opportunity. I can bring it to the euros though so that you can have a crack at it :-)

Paul: Thanks for the tip I think I will do just that.

//DaHomie


Use the RED thread lock, set the slipper, then allow it to sit over night. If you only allow the threadlock to dry, it wont cure, and the bond will NOT be permanent. Just a tip...

[DaHomie]

Andy, what red thread lock?

//DaHomie

[Andy Moore]

Andy, what red thread lock?

//DaHomie

Red referring to the color.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/products/detail.asp?catid=10&subid=48&plid=154

[bigred5765]

if anyone needs a touch of this stuff i hava a nice big bottle
hellishly expensive

[Elliott Hopkins]

In future will the BJ4WE kits include the B44 slipper clutch?

Elliott.

[Andy Moore]

In future will the BJ4WE kits include the B44 slipper clutch?

Elliott.


They will not actually. The guys that were running them during the Euros were testing the setup for the B44. They were running them locked, or almost locked anyway, haha.

[LEGEND]

Andy it is easy to tell that you are really proud of Jconcepts and all that they have made. And I sort of feel the same way. The thig that gave it away was the Cheeky little "Ha Ha Ha" at the end of your post.:D

[OldTimer]

Dahomie, if you are still having problems with the slipper clutch i now have our slipper upgrade kit available for the S4 / BJ4WE. Which we think cures the problem with the slipper clutch coming undone and also always you to run the slipper looser which in turn puts less stress on the rear gearbox.

Myself and Chris D having been running this mod since the Oswestry national without any problems.

[Andy Moore]

Andy it is easy to tell that you are really proud of Jconcepts and all that they have made. And I sort of feel the same way. The thig that gave it away was the Cheeky little "Ha Ha Ha" at the end of your post.:D

I am definately proud of the company I work for!

[Chequered Flag Racing]

i now have our slipper upgrade kit available for the S4 / BJ4WE.

Pics, price & link would be nice

[LEGEND]

I am definately proud of the company I work for! And so you should be proud. They have accomplished so much.:cool:

[jimmy]

Get some pics up Jonathan! We want to seeeeeee! :)

[Andy Moore]

And so you should be proud. They have accomplished so much.:cool:

Im just lucky to be "grandfathered" into their success.

[Thomas P]

Dahomie, if you are still having problems with the slipper clutch i now have our slipper upgrade kit available for the S4 / BJ4WE. Which we think cures the problem with the slipper clutch coming undone and also always you to run the slipper looser which in turn puts less stress on the rear gearbox.

Myself and Chris D having been running this mod since the Oswestry national without any problems.

Yes PLease Jonathan let se some Pics?. I do not have any problem, but they might come..

[autoxvw]

Yes Johnathan, you did send me instrucions on how to do the slip upgrade but some pics would be very helpful as well.

[jordix]

sorry but will somebody say that this slipper its a shit!, you can´t adjust it on race, threadlock don´t works, cyano in the nut?....ther T-nut ears broken....what kind of slipper it is? I know, this slipper stinks, I need to go to a race with 5 or 6 slippers? JJAJAJAJA please, dont make me laugh.

[albertobdq]

JAJAJAJAAJA I told you! You'd bought a BX. HAHAHA

well, get serious, maybe the Bj4 slipper is the worst part about it. I've seen many issues with it and being honest, for a top level car that kind of headaches are not acceptable. My pals with the BJ have to always use threadlock in their slippers, almost lock it, or just full lock, in wich case it'd be better not to have any slipper at all.

I hope that Jconcepts solve this issue asap because they developed a great car that everybody is trying to duplicate en some way or another, but the slipper is getting people angry.

[andy05]

Will the B44 slipper not fit?

[Lee]

Or maybe if you guys build it as per the manual with decent threadlock you will be ok. Its not hard, the metal nut it a big improvement over the plastic one and at the weekend i stripped a spur (my fault) i changed the spur, rebuilt the slipper thread locked it and ran it for another 4 runs, no problems no extra slip. Easy!!:D

So my point is, its not shit if you build it right

[jimmy]

I think a lot of people do have problems though with the new design - richard lowe has two built up so he doesn't have to mess about. Personally I only ever rain the original slipper which could be rebuilt without threadlock.

The B44 slipper looks to be a much better design which can be easily tuned - but to fit the BJ4we you'd need the centre drive shafts from the b44 also.

[DaHomie]

I have all parts for the B44 slipper ordered (hopefully) and will assemble and test fit as soon as they arrive. I look forward to actually having a slipper :-)
I do think that the front center input and CVD will have to be exchanged as well, but hopefully not the rear one.

First one that completes the build, please write a short report on it in this thread (I will if I am the one).

By the way, for the Bj4 slipper Lee, I actually agree. I started this thread and had huuuuuge problems. Once I got a GOOD threadlock in there, no more problems. But still the original item is not really a slipper in that sense I believe, more a strain-relief for the plastic gears.

[fastr]

Has anyone actually tried to use the diff thrust-bearing in the slipper?

[RogerM]

I was told at the weekend that some people do use a thrust bearing and a lock nut.

Now this confused me as a thrust race is used to isolate the diff screw from the relative movement of the two diff halfs ..... on the BJ4WE the outdrives are keyed together so the relative movement is not really there. I think a big improvement would be a shouldered head on the bolt (to increase the frictional area) and a locking washer ...... that may well help stop it coming undone.

[fastr]

Well, that is just it......there is movement between the outdrives!
It is not much, but enough to losen the bolt......

[Andy Moore]

Well, that is just it......there is movement between the outdrives!
It is not much, but enough to losen the bolt......

There is a little tolerance inbetween the outdrives, yes. Using "red" threadlock will help prevent the assembly from loosening.

[fastr]

I know I'm pigheaded, bud I still would like to know if anyone has any experience with the thrustbearing.
I think glueing things together isn't the answer.

[Andy Moore]

I know I'm pigheaded, bud I still would like to know if anyone has any experience with the thrustbearing.
I think glueing things together isn't the answer.

Thrust bearing? You mean assembling the two washers, with balls and grease in the middle, in place of the single washer? The moving compenents of the slipper dont involve that washer at all, so the thrust assembly would serve no purpose, and it may not even let the bolt reach the t-nut.

[Lee]

Why dont people just build it as the book says:confused:

[chris68nufc]

I have had a couple of goes but still backing off. Car is awesome but slipper is difficult to get right. I have now got some Associated blue threadlock to see if this sorts the problem out.Fingers crossed!

[RogerM]

I built mine with red thread lock and all has stayed tight ..... however I would really of appreciated being able to back it off a fraction at the weekend and didn't dare touch it trackside ... in the cold and wet!!!

If it's relative movement that is the problem that should be relatively easy to fix .... leave it with me!!!!

[chris68nufc]

RogerM. Where do you get Red threadlock from? What make? Is this better(stronger) than Blue associated?

[RogerM]

I got mine from ScrewFix!!!

The red stuff is meant to be more of a "permanent" bond than blue so yes, it is stronger.

[fastr]

Guys, please stop talking about the threadlock and try the thrustbearing (or two washers, with balls and grease in the middle)

[OldTimer]

Don't just use the thrust washer, we also tap the metal T nut and then add a grub screw which tightens upto the diff screw, this solves all your problems believe me ;)

[matdodd]

Don't just use the thrust washer, we also tap the metal T nut and then add a grub screw which tightens upto the diff screw, this solves all your problems believe me ;)


Ye it does! I adjusted my slipper on sunday at kiddy for round 4 Roger & didnt even use threadlock when I put it back in :)

[RogerM]

Don't just use the thrust washer, we also tap the metal T nut and then add a grub screw which tightens upto the diff screw, this solves all your problems believe me ;)

The grub screw is the bit Ken left out ..... now I understand!!!!!!

Are you using the standard screw or do you need a slightly longer / shorter one?

4-40 grubs ..... I wonder where I can get them from???? Anybody know a Great Planes stockest near Cheltenham ....???? :D:D

Now where have I put the BJ4???? (seriously ... not seen it in two days .... must have been "tidied".

[fastr]

Sorry, but still nobody told me that they used a thrustbearing in the slipper......and realised that it's crap.
Please answer my question,...... anyone?

[jordix]

hi, while I wait for the parts from Jconcepts Im going to test one center differential, Im bored, yes....I have finished the assembly and I have to test it in the track.

[fastr]

Great!!! Good luck!
I'm curious how you did that.

[Richard Lowe]

I'm curious how you did that.
Me too :eh?:

I'd keep your slipper assembly handy... ;)

[RogerM]

Guessing two short side diff halves, a diff rebuild kit and a kimbourgh style spur gear.

It might be interesting, might even help on very rutted tracks.

[fastr]

I tried to build a diff for my BJ with the parts I have (B4, B3, TC3, RC 10 worlds, RC 12LW) and still could not make it work.
The biggest problem was the size of the diff rings in combination with the outdrives
The problem you create by using a diff in the middle is that you don't have a slipper anymore.
So all the power will go thru the diff, which will slip.

[Richard Lowe]

My guess is it will just light up the front tires and go nowhere, unless you have a proper torque split I can't see it working. Should have massive on-power understeer too.

[Lee]

So what advantage are you hoping to gain with a centre diff:confused:

[jordix]

hi, I have tested it but only near home, not at track, it seems to work fine and the car turns very well and keeps on the turn under throttle much better (this is I was thinking to gain) with no loosening of the parts and no slipping of the diff.
And yes, I know I will lose power if front or rear train light up but I think this should be compensated adjusting the differential.
By other side I think that I lose the slipper function only if the car land with four wheel at same time, if not (the usual) the excess of rpm´s will "go out" through the train that its still in the air.

This its only an experiment, as I said Im bored and Im not really very very interested in offroad racing but if somebody wants to know what parts I used for it and how I will tell gladly.

sorry if you dont understand too well my poor english!
greetings!

[fastr]

No matter if it works or not, I still would like to know which parts you used !

[albertobdq]

Think about it a little more! 1/8 bugys use central diff and don't suffer from unloading on front wheels.

While turning every train keeps much planted and it's more neutral without the rear breaking out. It seems that can always turn as much as you want.

That's what you mean, isn't it Jordix? In other words: va de cojones. :D

[RogerM]

Breaking through a one-way might be an issue though, you might loose a load of breaking effort on rough surfaces as the loading changes front to rear.

[Richard Lowe]

Think about it a little more! 1/8 bugys use central diff and don't suffer from unloading on front wheels.
Don't they use oil filled or torsion diffs though? A normal ball diff has no limited slip effect at all.

[jordix]

No matter if it works or not, I still would like to know which parts you used !

here you got it:

associated parts

1766-B4/T4/GT ligthweight outdrives
6589-5/32" x 5/16" bearings
7677-differential rebuild kit for RC10GT

or you can order 7677 items separately
7666-diff rings
6575-thrust bolt and t-nut
6574-thrust balls
6582-thrust spring
6573-thrust washers

-I used duratrax spur gear (78T or 81T) but I think are the same that kimbrough spurs.
-For last yor will need eight 1/8" differential balls, associated or any other (these are 1/12 cars ball differential)

you must make some dremel work because the differential bearing dont fit the spur center hole (outer diameter of the bearing its smaller), I saw that standar 540 motor bearing do it but internal diameter its worst...

I made a plastic part (like a bushing) to fit the gap between bearing and spur internal hole, you must put special attention to make it well rounded because if not the spur will be eccentrix, (I have to test the resistance of this piece, I think will be better in metal material but its more difficult for me making it).

Now you can mount the diff. and tighten till the spring full compression, then loose 1/4 turn.

When you mount the diff. you have to do it with T-nut towards front center shaft and insert first rear shaft (I "touch" with dremel the rear upper deck inner edges a bit for easily outdrive insert through).

Now you will see that front outdrive bearings need a spacer to stay in its correct site of the bulkhead, its very easy to make a spacer for this, you need a 4.5mm spacer (from a brass ballpen jeje).

In the rear outdrive bearing I used 2 or 3 shim spacers (ASC2293)

It can be that spur touches the center bulkhead cap so you know: dremel work in the center bulkhead, only a bit...

Some pics (for sucolega AJAJAJA):

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9629/pic0004ml7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5208/pic0003yq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2910/pic0002if3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The problem of the spur centering comes fron T-nut/front center shaft, with a shortest t-nut or shaft the spur wold be perfect in its place but...

[albertobdq]

Don't they use oil filled or torsion diffs though? A normal ball diff has no limited slip effect at all.

A ball diff is a limited slip diff by definition. Oil used inside gear diff slow its operation making them to work tighter than they would without grease. In other words, ticker oil means more torque diference needed to make wheels turn at diferent speeds.

When you tigh a ball diff you are adjusting the diference in torque terms that is needed to make one wheel to turn faster than the other.

Ball diffs are better because their ability to change set up very easily and their much lower weight. However they can't take so much abuse as gear diffs do, and need more skills buiding and maintenance them.

"Sucolega" thanks the pics.

PS: Sioux speak better than us!

[jordix]

Don't they use oil filled or torsion diffs though? A normal ball diff has no limited slip effect at all.

you can adjust the diff. action in a ball diff. like in a oil filled diff but more easily and quickly, its the same, but both have no slipping effect at all (I refer to a standar slipper clutch), diffs. slipps one wheel respect from the other not from the pulley or spur.

"hau" alberto

[fastr]

Nice work man!!
I wonder what it does on a off-road track.

BTW ever thought about a slipper on which you can adjust the amount of slip to the front and rear seperately. Solution to problems??

[albertobdq]

In fact something of that already exist. On XX4 you can find different slipper pads for front and rear.That makes them slip at different points, so there you have your idea. You can always play with that using different slipper pads or just wswapping between new and old pad to achieve the setting you want.

[fastr]

!!!!?

[albertobdq]

:wtf: What's the point of that?

I mean... both springs load on the same piece so... they share tension so it's the same than a single spring with different tension. Always the softer one will "unload" and the tension on the pads will be just the same. The only thing that will vary the friction will be the mu coeficient between disc and pad.

You need something a litte bit more complex to achieve an adjustable "bi-slipper" :p so both end can use its own tension.

[fastr]

Oh, sorry I should have mentioned that the middle-ring is attached to the spur.......

[albertobdq]

Middle ring = piece wich the screws are attached? In that case I don't understand its design. Why is it asymetric? 2nd Newton law says that in spite middle ring is attached to the spur the tension on both sides will be the same.

[Northy]

Because if it wasn't how would you get it both sides of the spur and still one piece? :confused:

G

[fastr]

An exploded view.
Maybe this will clear things up?

[albertobdq]

Good design :o But... I don't have things clear enough. My brain is out of order for today, we'll see tomorrow

[jordix]

arrgh, Im going crazy but I think its the same thing as in the first drawing....

[fastr]

It is the the same drawing only streched-out
I can understand its difficult to understand how it works.........
Just remove one side of the slipper and see if the other side will still work.

[jordix]

hi, after yesterday testing and have no problem with the car after four batteries the car seems to have a very good
corner entering, very agressive but it loses steering under throtle (mid-out corner), the track was very slippery
and wet so the grip wasn´t good, nevertheless I used bow tie rear and hole shot front and the car had a
great traction, very good.
the test I made against a friend with a losi xxx-4, my friend is much better pilot than I but my car works very well
,traction, corner entering and no rear slip was the key for racing with him almost at the same time.

The car lost some front traction passing through the dubbies we have at the begining of the main straight
because of the light up of the front train, no matter, I speeded up equal or better than xxx-4 and brake better so in the straight I eat him and in some corners too.

first battery the differential finished a bit hot, I could hear the diff working hard at the beginning
of the main straigth but no loosening happend and the diff was ok at the end.
I tighten it a bit for the second batt and all was ok, I think I will need to tight it a bit more if we have more grip
another day (is the usual)

[Thomas P]

Havnt read everything in this thread, but what ive heard the B44 slipper is difrent to the BJ4 (adjust nut outside centerbulk). Centershaft have other dimension to...

CAN the B44 center tranny be fitted in the BJ4 WE, if i ex buy,front center,rear center, and everything else that has to do with the B44 slipper, will it fit or?

[Lee]

From what i have heard no.

The b44 slipper means the shaft lengths are different and they dont use MIP cvds where they enter the gear boxes.

This is only what i have been told i have not tried to myself.

Lee

[Thomas P]

Hmm, nice to hear if some one realy can tell, maybe even if the B44´s last pice of the shaft tht enters the gear oxes can be fitted in the BJ4WE..propably not, but would be nice to let this thougt away =)

[DaHomie]

Hmm, nice to hear if some one realy can tell, maybe even if the B44´s last pice of the shaft tht enters the gear oxes can be fitted in the BJ4WE..propably not, but would be nice to let this thougt away =)


Thomas, the outdrives will not fit, the gearbox of the NTC3 (BJ4WE) has the outdrive support bearing closer spaced.

However...

There are ways to make them fit, and of course all of the other parts as well if you really want to use the B44 slipper. I have a race coming up this weekend where I hope to put my little "B44 slipper in Bj4WE" to the test. I will have feedback on it next week.

Some of the main challenges with the project are these:

* The whole slipper assembly sits higher in the B44 (to allow larger spurs)
* The motor sits higher as well in the B44 (not a prob in it self except that you move up the C/G even further).
* Outdrives are longer (support bearings are wider spaced), and the gearboxes themselves are very different so it is not possible to bolt on B44 boxes either to allow the wider spacing of the bearings
* B44 and Bj4WE top decks, even though they look very similar around the slipper assembly, is not compatible, screw holes are offset
* Slipper assembly top holder blocks are then of course also very different even though they look very similar

If someone else is working on this, please share your solutions and ideas.

Regards,
Roy

[Thomas P]

Thank you Roy for this, il be waiting for your upate.

Reg

Thomas P

[DaHomie]

Hi guys,

As promised I have put together a .pdf guide that hopefully will help at least some of you guys out.

I tried to attach it to the post, but it was unfortunately too big (260KB). However, It can be downloaded here (http://www.svegsrcklubb.se/e107_files/public/B44_Slipper_for_the_BJ4WE.pdf).

Please let me know what you think.

Take care.


//Roy

[Thomas P]

Looking rel good Roy, i will order the parts in a few weeks, no rush for me. Cant wait to test it in my S4

/Thomas

[Chequered Flag Racing]

Hi guys,

As promised I have put together a .pdf guide that hopefully will help at least some of you guys out.

I tried to attach it to the post, but it was unfortunately too big (260KB). However, It can be downloaded here (http://www.svegsrcklubb.se/e107_files/public/B44_Slipper_for_the_BJ4WE.pdf).

Please let me know what you think.

Take care.


//Roy

Just priced that parts list.

might as well just buy a B44 :woot:

[Thomas P]

barely 100 dollar without the concept parts...aint so expensive at all...and way lower then a 319 dollar car :)

[DaHomie]

Just priced that parts list.

those in red are from a well known USA parts house, couldn't find them in the UK. But as things stand we usually double in price for the UK, they should'nt be far out

might as well just buy a B44 :woot:

Well worth the money if you ask me :thumbsup: And by the way, did I ever mention it was going to be cheap? :D:D

[HVAC25000]

Just priced that parts list.

might as well just buy a B44 :woot:

And what, have the B44 snap in half on the first hard landing and then have to spend another 100 for replacement parts? :thumbsup:

[ikey ji]

Nice job DaHomie!
Congratulations for your work and especially for the quality of your pdf...
Do you authorize me to put it on petitrc forum in order to share it with french drivers? (with your copyright of course :thumbsup:)
Regards.

[DaHomie]

Nice job DaHomie!
Congratulations for your work and especially for the quality of your pdf...
Do you authorize me to put it on petitrc forum in order to share it with french drivers? (with your copyright of course :thumbsup:)
Regards.


Of course you can, please PM me a link to the post on Petit when you have it up there.

//Roy

[maxoo]

very nice !!! Thanks for your work !!!!

[colmo]

Apologies for the resurrection of this old thread, but I've just found it while researching what to do about the slipper in my BJ4WE.

I'm weighing up either doing this mod, or fitting a B44 slipper and centre shaft mod, mentioned in another thread, and the PDF instructions are available online, I found them with Google.

What are the handling differences likely to be between the two? What kind of surfaces does each favour? It's possible I would build one BJ4WE for each surface type.

Jordix hasn't been here in a while, and I believe he sold his BJ4WE.

here you got it:

associated parts

1766-B4/T4/GT ligthweight outdrives
6589-5/32" x 5/16" bearings
7677-differential rebuild kit for RC10GT

or you can order 7677 items separately
7666-diff rings
6575-thrust bolt and t-nut
6574-thrust balls
6582-thrust spring
6573-thrust washers

-I used duratrax spur gear (78T or 81T) but I think are the same that kimbrough spurs.
-For last yor will need eight 1/8" differential balls, associated or any other (these are 1/12 cars ball differential)

you must make some dremel work because the differential bearing dont fit the spur center hole (outer diameter of the bearing its smaller), I saw that standar 540 motor bearing do it but internal diameter its worst...

I made a plastic part (like a bushing) to fit the gap between bearing and spur internal hole, you must put special attention to make it well rounded because if not the spur will be eccentrix, (I have to test the resistance of this piece, I think will be better in metal material but its more difficult for me making it).

Now you can mount the diff. and tighten till the spring full compression, then loose 1/4 turn.

When you mount the diff. you have to do it with T-nut towards front center shaft and insert first rear shaft (I "touch" with dremel the rear upper deck inner edges a bit for easily outdrive insert through).

Now you will see that front outdrive bearings need a spacer to stay in its correct site of the bulkhead, its very easy to make a spacer for this, you need a 4.5mm spacer (from a brass ballpen jeje).

In the rear outdrive bearing I used 2 or 3 shim spacers (ASC2293)

It can be that spur touches the center bulkhead cap so you know: dremel work in the center bulkhead, only a bit...

Some pics (for sucolega AJAJAJA):

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9629/pic0004ml7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/5208/pic0003yq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2910/pic0002if3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

The problem of the spur centering comes fron T-nut/front center shaft, with a shortest t-nut or shaft the spur wold be perfect in its place but...