Durango Rip Offs

[raymondkerr]

Just found this article on NeoBuggy.

http://www.neobuggy.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7910

[Alfonzo]

I take you back to this thread;

http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40729

Shame Durango didn't keep the manufacture in Europe, but that's the risks you take.

[b4pete]

This will be interesting as I dont know what patents they have?
Also, i think you only infringe copyright if you catually steal someones drawings effectivley and make an exact copy. If you make subtle changes like, different materials, slightly different dimensions etc, you cant be touched...or thats my understanding. I hope it doesnt happen to Durango, it will be the shits if it does :(

[Alfonzo]

It will probably cost so much in legal fees that it won't be worth chasing.

Business in China = Dancing with the Devil.

[DCM]

lets not forget, they will want to sell this car cheap, and the Racer that Durango is selling to, will want the real deal. The ones who do buy it, will probably not buy a new Durango anyhows, so as much as it looks bad, it isn't that much of an issue. The biggest issue is Brand Awareness.

Just like the music industry, and pirate downloads, we all used to tape the top 40, but now they can trace you, they assume that they are losing sales, where in fact those people more than likely wouldn't go and buy it anyways.

[steelie600]

Thats quite true that. I also fly r/c helicopter and for a few years the Align T-Rex series has been the benchmark kit if you will. And the amount of T-Rex clones is unreal, i reckon there is atleast 20 clones on the market of just the T-rex 450 alone. But like DCM says, the discerning modeller will never buy the clone they will only buy the real deal. Main reason is the clones are always poor quality, made of cheap materials, crap bearings etc.

I can see a lot of kids buying the Durango clone but as soon as they realise its crap they will buy the real deal. Where as I can see in the short term it may take money from Durango, it may infact actually increase their sales when people do realise the extra quality you get with the real kit.

[Rebelrc]

Hopefully going bad like AERO for them!

[frogger]

My guess is this will do little more than increase Durango spare parts sales. Chinese compies usually don't do spares for their copies.

Anybody got a link to the cheap car? :p

[cjm_2008]

does the chinese version come with some free knock-off DVDs? might help sweeten the deal.

;)

[Darren Boyle]

This looks very "Durango like" from Alien Power, news article from Racer website
http://www.rcracer.com/off-road-electric-articles-112/1156-alienpower-4wd-buggy-prototype-teaser-shot

[Bungleaio]

This looks very "Durango like" from Alien Power, news article from Racer website
http://www.rcracer.com/off-road-electric-articles-112/1156-alienpower-4wd-buggy-prototype-teaser-shot


Even the spring colours are the same!

[frogger]

Alien Power German, not Chinese :eh?:

[c0sie]

"Famed" for their micro's?

Umm.....really?

I thought they made PC cases :?

[coolcars782]

I thought they made PC cases :?

Aint that Alienware

[dpackster1980]

It's like when you are buying a car.

Audi for example reliable, made with expense materials and will hold it'a value.

Seat, same chassis, same engines, same performance but doesn't hold it's value.

Durango will be fine as there's loads already sold but if the car is identical then Durango should come out and justify the price tag. As the company that makes the copy will have to pay for special tooling too especially if it proves to be as reliable or more so.

The "R" version should stop too many copies being sold.:thumbsup:

[Darren Boyle]

Alien Power German, not Chinese :eh?:
Carl, Alien Power are just a re-seller, there motors are all Trinity teardowns by the looks of things, they dont make it, just distribute it I guess...

[colt_seavers]

Durango will be fine as there's loads already sold but if the car is identical then Durango should come out and justify the price tag. As the company that makes the copy will have to pay for special tooling too especially if it proves to be as reliable or more so.


They don't really have to justify the price if it is higher than the copy, even if the copy is identical. There's more to the cost of producing the car than just the physical kit the end user ends up buying. There's four years of research and development for a start, plus the fact they came up with the 'ideas' in the first place.

[Garry]

I wrote about this, but about the touring car clones that have appeared.

http://gazdesigns.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/counterfeit-culture/

Its totally unethical to steal the hard work and design of one company. Its not the same as taking inspiration when all the parts are interchangeable. :(

[DaSloth]

I doubt they'd be able to get away with that some how, its not even subtle with that picture, they've taken a pic of the durango 410r and blurred it a little the cheeky beggers!

[DCM]

I dunno if your theory holds up to well when it comes to RC Cars, as they are sold on reputation and the label, so if you want a Tamiya, your going to buy a Tamiya, not a cheap knock-off.

I guess it depends on how you work your logic back though doesn't it. I don't see why the person who really wants an X-Brand car, because of how it handles and it's reliability, would opt for a cheap knock-off.

On the flip side, the places that these 'knock offs' are to be sold, isn't where you racer is looking to buy his/her car. So the probability is that the majority of people who do buy them, wouldn't even entertain buying the X-Brand.

The only thing that is effected, in reality, is company brand and image, but as we are mostly aware in our little 'racing community' we would know it was a knock-off copy.

[Rebelrc]

one easy way to discourage people buying them is if we see one at a race meeting simply STAMP ON IT !:thumbsup:

[moth898]

I don't know why everyone is surprised or shocked, last time I look every 1/8 scale gaz buggy looked the same as the original kyosho inferno with minor changes to dimensions. The B44 suspension looks like the Cat sx witch looks like the losi xxx4. Companies take each others ideas and change minor esthetics and make it their "design", so a exact copy isn't that different than whats concidered "legal".

[Chris Doughty]

first of all, that pic that Darren linked to is ridiculous... if I had just been shown that pic I'd say someone had been dicking around with photoshop 'effects' and a Durango 410 picture.

secondly, xxx4 geometry is/was miles off anyting that is out there now, the diff's are too big to get anything near geometry that works so I wouldn't say that the B44 is a copy of that, neither is any other car that I can think of.

the diff's were too low on the shelf weapon (TC) that went from off-road to on-road, and the diff's were too high/big on the xxx4 that came from an on-road xxx-s.

evolutions in geometry that seems to happen with TC's, 8th scale nitro, 10th scale off-road is 'copying' a little bit, but there are only so many effective ways you can setup some double-wishbone suspension and soon people fall on what seems to be an optimum.

but a blatent reverse engineering job without any changes to method of fixing bits together, geometry, even bodyshell is so so wrong!

[dave-p]

one easy way to discourage people buying them is if we see one at a race meeting simply STAMP ON IT !:thumbsup:

THAT ALL DEPENDS ON WHO'S CAR IT IS, IF HE'S A LOT BIGGER THAN YOU ARE YOU MIGHT END UP CHEWING A BIT OF BOOT LACE.:cry::woot:

[jimmy]

but a blatent reverse engineering job without any changes to method of fixing bits together, geometry, even bodyshell is so so wrong!

agreed there, its pathetic that these people can't design their own product, clearly not a race company so don't expect race quality.:yawn:

[moth898]

first of all, that pic that Darren linked to is ridiculous... if I had just been shown that pic I'd say someone had been dicking around with photoshop 'effects' and a Durango 410 picture.

secondly, xxx4 geometry is/was miles off anyting that is out there now, the diff's are too big to get anything near geometry that works so I wouldn't say that the B44 is a copy of that, neither is any other car that I can think of.

the diff's were too low on the shelf weapon (TC) that went from off-road to on-road, and the diff's were too high/big on the xxx4 that came from an on-road xxx-s.

evolutions in geometry that seems to happen with TC's, 8th scale nitro, 10th scale off-road is 'copying' a little bit, but there are only so many effective ways you can setup some double-wishbone suspension and soon people fall on what seems to be an optimum.

but a blatent reverse engineering job without any changes to method of fixing bits together, geometry, even bodyshell is so so wrong!

First of all, the xxx4 front wishbone was the first to incrporate the yoke and outer c style steering hub, all previous designes had the c hub inside the wishbone. We are both saying the same thing when it comes to goemetry.

That doesn't mean I agree at all with reverse engineering the Durango, I think it stinks. But when the chinesse have copied merc Maybach and a Ferrari P4 some of the rarest and most expensive cars in the world, do you think a little rc car is any big deal. I also collect vintage transformers, china has started copying them for acouple of years now making it hard to collect vintage toys

We are to blame for this situation, we are always looking to by more for less and go to china to get it regarless of the consequences.

In recent events here in Canada, Bauer the hockey equipment company, recalled thousands of hockey sticks because of lead being in the paint. So even legitimate companies are supporting them. Durango, like most all other companies make parts in China so this is the inevitable outcome.

I manufacture aluminium products here in Canada only using Canadian made materials and pay more for parts and of course sell my product at a higher price. Until others start doing the same we loose, not only our designs, but our jobs as well

[Alfonzo]

I urge everyone to boycott these cheap Chinese knock off's. We all like a bargain, but ultimately we will shoot ourselves in the foot. If the likes of Durango, Schumacher etc can no longer afford to design and sell kits then the game is over.

They are giving us all the rope we need to put a big ol' noose right round our own necks.

RebelRC has got it right, if you see one, squash it. Just be sure it isn't a real Durangotango, 'cause that would be awkward. :eh?::woot:

[Northy]

First of all, the xxx4 front wishbone was the first to incrporate the yoke and outer c style steering hub, all previous designes had the c hub inside the wishbone. We are both saying the same thing when it comes to goemetry.

I think you mean XX4 here, I think CD knows his stuff about Losi's ;)

G

[mark christopher]

there could be another reason, Durango is made in far east, and pound to a penny they also make other parts for other manufactures, poss serpent etc

if durango have not tied that deal up air tight or the factory is selling cheaper parts off there lies the problem

did you see the copy of the schumacher touring car? near identical but crap quality

[frogger]

If the likes of Durango, Schumacher etc can no longer afford to design and sell kits then the game is over.

Jeeze mate, cheer up, life isn't that bad and nothing is over.

The internet is only about 15 years old and the global economy is changing faster than what old ways can keep up. We are merely going through a transitional period during which time, things will change. At some point things will naturally stabilise.

The game will never be over as long as there are innovators and consumer demand. Innovators will make new products no matter what, innovators have never stopped making products just because they don't have money or because they are scared their ideas will be stolen. They make products because they are enthusiastic about it.

On the other hand consumers always want what you are selling but they want it at half the price. This isn't a new thing and there is nothing wrong with it. It's the natural order of life because we are not all gazzillionaires.

[Dazzler]

Some poor racer could well end up buying such a copy, probably s/hand for good money thinking it's the real deal - who would like to break the bad news to them track side...

[littlened]

To be fair, it's kind of happening with lots of things. Take my job. I charge my clients £40 an hour, yet you could hire someone in India to do the same job (just not as good) for £8 an hour. When you look at the difference, the £8 an hour seems a bargain even if you have to pay for a few 'extra' hours to get the job done right.

Everyone wants everything cheap. As a result our call centres go abroad, then people complain about it. It's our own doing.

I remember looking to buy a motorbike a couple of year ago, the amount of copies from China were unbelievable, some of them looked stunning, but would be lucky to last 6 month! A brand new copy bike was something like £800, or £2000 if you bought the genuine article.

[ApexSpeed]

Historically, have ANY knock off cars from China (or elsewhere) ever sold well or filled the marketplace? And I'm talking about knock offs, all the way back to the Shine Home Beagle—that horrible Optima Mid abomination from the late 80s.

[DaveG28]

Hmm, tbh I think Durango could win out of it anyway. There was a knock of 416 a little while ago, NOONE who bought it would have ever bought the real car due to price (or at least, certainly not new), but the knock off had 5 or 6 things wrong on it which meant all who bought it had to buy Tamiya parts to put on it, hence money to Tamiya.

Then, having seen it was pretty quick for the 2 laps before falling apart, a couple o the guys did then go and buy a 416.

Tamiya sold more kits and spares due to the copy, certainly from what I read on it.

Doesn;t make it right (its wrong), but not all doom and gloom either!

[telboy]

At the end of the day, if these companies are changing dimensions just to knock out a cheap replica, then the clones aren't going to handle as well a the original are they?
Geometry is going to be all over the place.

That pick on the other link is just a PS'd durango pic. Simple as that. It stinks.

:thumbdown:

[moth898]

I think you mean XX4 here, I think CD knows his stuff about Losi's ;)

G

Your right my finger went faster than my brain, I get a little angry when I hear China knocked of someone's work. Cheap China sh#t has affected my companies bottom line for years now.

[Si Coe]

As far as I can see the only real risk is the aforementioned 'misrepresentation' con, where someone tries to pass the cheap clone off as the real deal. Easily spotted in real life, but a common trick on Ebay for example.

Otherwise its really not going to hurt Durango's sales, especially once the R version comes out. No racer is going to buy one expecting Durango performance - the people that will buy them are newbies who currently buy Master Smackers etc. Which means unless they really manage to hash it up, they will be getting something much better than they currently have, just not as good as a real Dex410.

Ironically the dangerous part is that as each year passes the quality of these knockoffs improves. The cloners are starting to understand materials and how they relate to performance - which means clone parts are less and less distinguishable from the original. The fear for someone like Durango shouldn't be a cheap knockoff of a £400 that sells for £150, but something like a true clone (ie literally identical and indistinguishable) selling for £300. That just might eat into their market.

[frogger]

The thing is these clones are not always poor quality, some of them are as good as if not better than the originals. I have proper T-Rex heli's and I have clones and 2 of my clones are better than my T-Rex because the cloner had time to fix the problems that was in the original kits. They don't change the dimensions either, my proper Align T-Rex parts fit all my heli's, clones included. There is no difference in material quality either and my bearings in both have lasted as long as the other.

Yes there are the odd cheap crappy one but most of them are as good as the original. They don't give a monkey in China, they copy it exactly like it is.

In the RC heli world cloning is rife and has been happening for years and years. I am surprised it has taken so long for cars to start being cloned. For heli flyers it's just part of the game, you show up at the airfield and half of the heli's are clones but 80% of people who own clones also own the originals. My original heli's are now shelf queens because I would rather crash a £100 chopper than a £400 chopper.

It will be a bit different with cars because you don't exactly nearly destroy the whole thing in a crash but I do think if a £100 Durango knock off hits the market that quite a few people will be buying one and pretending it's the real thing.

[ramdrive]

Sad but true many RC company's outsource production (Unknown to you) so the knock-offs are usually made on the same production line and sold at half the cost...



I dunno if your theory holds up to well when it comes to RC Cars, as they are sold on reputation and the label, so if you want a Tamiya, your going to buy a Tamiya, not a cheap knock-off.

I guess it depends on how you work your logic back though doesn't it. I don't see why the person who really wants an X-Brand car, because of how it handles and it's reliability, would opt for a cheap knock-off.

On the flip side, the places that these 'knock offs' are to be sold, isn't where you racer is looking to buy his/her car. So the probability is that the majority of people who do buy them, wouldn't even entertain buying the X-Brand.

The only thing that is effected, in reality, is company brand and image, but as we are mostly aware in our little 'racing community' we would know it was a knock-off copy.

[Pablo668]

First off, yeah this knockoff stinks to high heaven.

But I've also been looking at the rumoured TRF Tamiya 2wd lately and it seems to be a rip-off of the B4....which would be a tad dissapointing if that's how it turns out.
Kyosho's RB5 also lends itself to the B4 design too and Durango themselves seem to have borrowed the B4 front end holacebolace for their dex210.....which is a beautiful design btw. So......???

Still, to completely clone someone elses design and sell it cheaper is pretty low (I'm looking at you Ansmann).

[Tom3012]

That ansmann comment is a bit low imo, ansmann/team c have looked at the best parts of the current cars and put them all together in one, no parts are like for like, you buy a madrat and see how many parts properly fit other cars;)

[t8rtot]

Ansman is called TQ racing in the USA, and they have a "new" 1/8th scale coming out..

and let me tell you it is the EXACT Copy of the GS Racing CLX.

http://www.neobuggy.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7892

it doesnt get any worse then that

[bustabo]

TQ is NOT "Ansmann". They are a US company that re-brands another companies product that isnt currently distributed in the US and imports them into the US under the known TQ name.

[Pablo668]

That ansmann comment is a bit low imo, ansmann/team c have looked at the best parts of the current cars and put them all together in one, no parts are like for like, you buy a madrat and see how many parts properly fit other cars;)

Uh...?

I can never work out why people defend the likes of Ansmann. The parts may not be properly interchangeable but it's pretty clear where they took the lion share of the design from. Except for that front top plate thingy, that's very RB5-ish.
(made a comment here that was wrong wrong wrong wrong, my bad)

[Tom3012]

Ill defend them because they bring new people with a small budget into our hobby! The car is RB5 ish, but then id say when the b4 was released it was xxx-ish in some ways.

Im not sticking up for cloners, far from that!!! But to say that a car like the madrat is a clone is a little unfair

[t8rtot]

Ill defend them because they bring new people with a small budget into our hobby! The car is RB5 ish, but then id say when the b4 was released it was xxx-ish in some ways.

Im not sticking up for cloners, far from that!!! But to say that a car like the madrat is a clone is a little unfair

Kind of a catch 22 you say u don't stand up for cloners.. but you have to admit they just combined all three cars together in that kit. So its ok to clone everybody at once but. Not just one car at a time?

I understand you there are only so many ways to build a rear motored 2wd buggy but don't blind yourself just because the car is a step above the reg clone crap.

I won't bag on ansmann but I will say they are innovating the hobby.. they definately are ruffling any of the big 3's feathers..

[Pablo668]

Ill defend them because they bring new people with a small budget into our hobby! The car is RB5 ish, but then id say when the b4 was released it was xxx-ish in some ways.

Im not sticking up for cloners, far from that!!! But to say that a car like the madrat is a clone is a little unfair

Ok, I'm having trouble understanding why labelling a spade as a spade is low or unfair?

The Ansmann Madrat is a goddamn clone, so is their 4wd jobby. Perhaps not an exact copy and maybe they are better quality than all the other clones, but that doesn't remove the fact that they copies.

I also mentioned that manufacturers copy from others, design features come out, they get taken up by rival manufacturers. No problem there.
But to clone someone elses design almost entirely?

Anyhoo, I'm going to leave it at that. This forum is a very pleasant troll/argument free place and I should do my bit to keep it that way.

[bert digler]

Ok, I'm having trouble understanding why labelling a spade as a spade is low or unfair?

The Ansmann Madrat is a goddamn clone, so is their 4wd jobby. Perhaps not an exact copy and maybe they are better quality than all the other clones, but that doesn't remove the fact that they copies.

I also mentioned that manufacturers copy from others, design features come out, they get taken up by rival manufacturers. No problem there.
But to clone someone elses design almost entirely?

Anyhoo, I'm going to leave it at that. This forum is a very pleasant troll/argument free place and I should do my bit to keep it that way.

er its not a clone granted it was designed very much like the losi and rb5 but its not a a clone

[Si Coe]

There is a big difference between a 'best features of other cars' design and a true clone - and its all down to product development. Such a car still needs testing because each and every part is unique to it (albeit very similar to somebody elses) and there is no guarantee the whole lot will work together. Perfect example is the X-Factory X5 which is technically a XXX-4 drivetrain with XX-4 suspension (so by your definition a 'clone') but clearly required a lot of work to get right.
In contrast if I made a straight copy (down to the screw holes) of say the new Cougar, I don't need to do any testing at all. Schumacher have done all that for me and since my design is identical to theirs its going to work pretty much the same.
Put another way, the first type is a shortcut, the second outright cheating.......

[littlened]

As it's been said, people will use other peoples ideas. They see something working on another car, and try to implement it on their own. That's evolution.

Completely copying on the other hand, is a totally different matter.

[Alfonzo]

Jeeze mate, cheer up, life isn't that bad and nothing is over.

The internet is only about 15 years old and the global economy is changing faster than what old ways can keep up. We are merely going through a transitional period during which time, things will change. At some point things will naturally stabilise.

The game will never be over as long as there are innovators and consumer demand. Innovators will make new products no matter what, innovators have never stopped making products just because they don't have money or because they are scared their ideas will be stolen. They make products because they are enthusiastic about it.

On the other hand consumers always want what you are selling but they want it at half the price. This isn't a new thing and there is nothing wrong with it. It's the natural order of life because we are not all gazzillionaires.

:D When I say 'Game Over' I'm not saying the end of the world as we know it, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. BUT, let's be clear here - Durango, Schumacher etc do all the hard work up front. Designing and innovating sophisticated RC cars is a time consuming, and therefore expensive, business paid for by the return on sales. If the Chinese clone that design and totally undercut your market then you run the risk of being forced out of business. Seeing as the Chinese are not capable / interested in designing innovative and desirable RC cars then ultimately our 'game' is over, or certainly a lot less healthy.

Chances are the Durango copy is made from parts off the same production line. It's posible the quality is every bit as good as the orginal. The Chinese are plenty clever enough to get it right.

There's a big difference between a Chinese designed, developed & manufactured kit and a straight forward clone rip-off. The former is fair sport. The latter is theft.

[Tom3012]

There is a big difference between a 'best features of other cars' design and a true clone - and its all down to product development. Such a car still needs testing because each and every part is unique to it (albeit very similar to somebody elses) and there is no guarantee the whole lot will work together. Perfect example is the X-Factory X5 which is technically a XXX-4 drivetrain with XX-4 suspension (so by your definition a 'clone') but clearly required a lot of work to get right.
In contrast if I made a straight copy (down to the screw holes) of say the new Cougar, I don't need to do any testing at all. Schumacher have done all that for me and since my design is identical to theirs its going to work pretty much the same.
Put another way, the first type is a shortcut, the second outright cheating.......

That and the post above were what i was getting at, im glad someone gets what i mean :woot: (not having a go btw)

[Chris Doughty]

my old design teacher once said to me "a Designer is an improver"

I think this statement is quite true, its very rare for someone to come up with a 'new' object for cars to roll on (a wheel as its most often known) but designers come up with new ways of shaping the internals of the wheel, wheel fixing, off-set, width and so on. this is design. (and often involved prototypes and testing to optimise this design)

getting a pair of calipers around a current wheel and reproducing it 100% like for like isn't really design is it.

I mean they could at least put some effort in and do an embossed logo or something like that surely... :eh?:

before you beat me up, I'm using a wheel as an example here, I know people like to have a universal standard of fitment and we are restricted by tire dimensions too, but you get my idea.

[Battle_axe]

to be fair the whole ansmann thing is rubbish they dont make the car team C do also the car is different to anything out there since it has a losi like rear end and a rb5 like front it is different though there is not one single part other thank things like screws and diff balls that can be swapped onto any other car and the car peforms different to the losi the RB5 and any other 2wd cars out there in the end with a rear motored 2wd how many ways can it be built there really is always going to be one way that is "best" look at F1 by then end of the season nearly the whole field will be running nearly the same car in racing its peformance that counts not looks or who has coppied who if this durango clone comes out and seems to be made well i will buy one i own 3 Trex clones as mentioned above and i bet some of you are typing on desktop pc ohh your all using IBM clones :thumbsup: see in the end the world is a hard place and things will be coppied especialy some of the best designs in the world its life get over it

[Candyman]

all this reminds me of this schumacher (?) clone

http://www.r2hobbies.com/eng/proddetail.php?prod=rcve3301002

[Alfonzo]

to be fair the whole ansmann thing is rubbish they dont make the car team C do also the car is different to anything out there since it has a losi like rear end and a rb5 like front it is different though there is not one single part other thank things like screws and diff balls that can be swapped onto any other car and the car peforms different to the losi the RB5 and any other 2wd cars out there in the end with a rear motored 2wd how many ways can it be built there really is always going to be one way that is "best" look at F1 by then end of the season nearly the whole field will be running nearly the same car in racing its peformance that counts not looks or who has coppied who if this durango clone comes out and seems to be made well i will buy one i own 3 Trex clones as mentioned above and i bet some of you are typing on desktop pc ohh your all using IBM clones :thumbsup: see in the end the world is a hard place and things will be coppied especialy some of the best designs in the world its life get over it

Sure fella, but if this practice of cloning prevents the original designers to stay in the business of conjuring up nice car designs for us all to own then that's a bit poo isn't it? The Chinese aren't designing jack sh*t.

The IBM is a bad analogy for a whole bunch of reasons.

[Si Coe]

Actually its a perfect analogy for a simple reason - it shifted the burden of development to the aftermarket.
RC used to be like that once, and may well be again. Once upon a time we all ran the 1 or 2 cars available, but you could buy say improved wishbones from 100's of different people.
If everyone drives competant Chinese Durango clones and all big innovations are copied and cloned days after appearing to that extent its not worth doing, people might well stop designing whole cars. But they could to a roaring trade in improved shock towers, or stronger wishbones etc.
This already happens in 1/5th. Some HPI Baja clones are as good as the real deal, but this has only boosted the sales of aftermarket parts for Baja's. The cloners are squeezing HPI, but are helping the small parts industry.
Innovation lives on, just from a new source. Remember we are racers, we always want a better car than the other guy. Where that edge comes from (stock or aftermarket) is not important.

[littlened]

Steve Jobs once said "Good designers copy, great designers steal" or something to that effect.

[Alfonzo]

Actually its a perfect analogy for a simple reason - it shifted the burden of development to the aftermarket.
RC used to be like that once, and may well be again. Once upon a time we all ran the 1 or 2 cars available, but you could buy say improved wishbones from 100's of different people.
If everyone drives competant Chinese Durango clones and all big innovations are copied and cloned days after appearing to that extent its not worth doing, people might well stop designing whole cars. But they could to a roaring trade in improved shock towers, or stronger wishbones etc.
This already happens in 1/5th. Some HPI Baja clones are as good as the real deal, but this has only boosted the sales of aftermarket parts for Baja's. The cloners are squeezing HPI, but are helping the small parts industry.
Innovation lives on, just from a new source. Remember we are racers, we always want a better car than the other guy. Where that edge comes from (stock or aftermarket) is not important.

Who wants a world where people stop designing whole cars? Small parts industry won't be sponsoing events / race series etc, such as the current manufacturers do. They won't have the clout to develop and evolve the product. The RC world be a lot worse off in this scenario.

[Garry]

I noticed a comment saying that the clone will be bought by people who wouldn't have been able to afford to buy a real Durango, so it doesn't really affect the situation.

True, but by buying a clone, instead of something legitimate they COULD afford (HPI Cyber 10b, Tamiya DB01 etc), they are hurting even more companies.

Its unethical, and stinks on so many levels.

[mark christopher]

all this reminds me of this schumacher (?) clone

http://www.r2hobbies.com/eng/proddetail.php?prod=rcve3301002
thats what i was on about it even has the same name

[Si Coe]

Who wants a world where people stop designing whole cars? Small parts industry won't be sponsoing events / race series etc, such as the current manufacturers do. They won't have the clout to develop and evolve the product. The RC world be a lot worse off in this scenario.

Really? Cos thats how it works in full size cars. People that make parts for modified cars sponsor events for them, not the cars manufacturers. Works that way for a lot of things that are available in a capable but dull stock form, but with a range of custom parts.

RC cars weren't originally even designed for racing. People started having competitions and since their cars weren't suitable they started making custom parts to fix the problem. After making one, others would ask, and they'd make more, and next you know they are aftermarket suppliers.
Couldn't happen now? Oh it can - like the many people who can supply you with brass B4 bulkheads etc - an innovation entirely created aftermarket.

Basically what I'm saying is it wouldn't harm the hobby, though it might hurt the current industry and will radically alter the way things work.

BTW I'd like to point out that the original Durango was an aftermarket conversion of a TC3! Indeed, its been shed engineered for a decade before it was finally launched. Who says the little guy can't innovate?

[Alfonzo]

You cannot draw a true parallel between the real car scene and the RC car world. There's that much more money in the real car scene that a lot of the aftermarket tuners are quite big businesses in their own right. I'm sorry, but Trishbits and Nortech etc are not going to have the same clout as Schumacher, AE, Losi etc when it comes to promoting and sponsoring our hobby.

The current situation is healthy. It's great that the aftermarket RC guys are doing their thing. But if we lost our manufacturers then the aftermarket guys would suffer too, because it's our manufacturers who have enough resources to innovate new models etc and keep the game alive. And what about supporting our own talent and skills? Does that not come into the equation?

At the end of the day, I don't suppose that enough people will abandon the Original's in favour of the Clones. But if they did, it would be harmful to our hobby - that's not in doubt.

We've all benefited materialistically from the Chinese. My computer, your computer, our mobiles, TV's, clothes etc etc. This stuff has never been so cheap. But there's no such thing as a free lunch as the old saying goes.

[HyperFX]

... BTW I'd like to point out that the original Durango was an aftermarket conversion of a TC3! ...

Got that right...conversion...not copy. They know copying is illegal.

[telboy]

Durango themselves seem to have borrowed the B4 front end holacebolace for their dex210.....which is a beautiful design btw. So......???


I think you got it right with 'borrowed'. They obviously hadn't got a fully designed front end when the car ran at Petit, so probably just draughted a B4 ront to compete at the event.

I think it now has a complete front end from what I've seen in other pics now.:)

[Pablo668]

I think you got it right with 'borrowed'. They obviously hadn't got a fully designed front end when the car ran at Petit, so probably just draughted a B4 ront to compete at the event.

I think it now has a complete front end from what I've seen in other pics now.:)


Ahhhh wouldn't happen to have a link to those pics would you?

I am really liking the dex210.

[Chris Ashton]

thats what i was on about it even has the same name

And most of the text I wrote!

For us there is simply nothing you can do, you just hope that people see sense. If customers are looking to buy a competition TC they are not going to spend £150, more like £300+

But rest assured its VERY frustrating!!

[Alfonzo]

There you go lads, straight from the horses mouth. Chris did all the hardwork, someone else stole it.

[mes]

Found this:
http://www.rc-news.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/alienpower_4wd_buggy_2010.jpg

Familiar?!

[Alfonzo]

That's the picture that kicked this thread off Mes!

If you see one, stamp on it :o:woot:

[Northy]

It's also not just a photo-shopped 410 or 410R pic as the shocks are not TD like ;)

G

[telboy]

has no boots on shocks or outdrives either.

[rcdunk]

neo now has more photos of the copy (cannot do links lol) shocking copy

[Bungleaio]

Looks like an exact copy to me.

http://www.neobuggy.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7939

A few days ago, Team Durango issued a statement (http://www.neobuggy.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=7910) regarding a possible copy of their 10th scale electric buggy the DEX 410, "a Chinese company is testing the market interest in a DEX410 copy – we have no idea if this car has been made yet or if they are just using our car to test interest.
From what we can tell this is an exact copy, which of course breaks copy write laws in almost all markets worldwide; if these copies do arrive into markets where we are protected under copywriter law, we will take action against any company wishing to profit by reselling these copies. "

Neo Buggy has found the offending copy called the TK410 (sounds rather like the DEX410 ?!) which is currently being advertised for pre-order online on a Chinese website, we believe the company or brand behind the alleged copy is called Top Toys, they have several other products using the 'TK' naming convention. The website claims the car was supposed to be available by mid-march but that seems a little unrealistic. From the looks of it, the quality is far off the DEX410, plastics, no laser engravings like Team Durango. The extent of the copy is all a little blatant even down to the similarities of the logo...

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy1.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy2.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy3.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy4.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy5.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy6.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy7.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy8.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy9.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy10.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy11.jpg

http://www.neobuggy.net/images/News/tdcopy12.jpg

[b4pete]

Oh Dear oh dear, it doesnt look to bad that (apart from I bet the turnbuckles are like butter!!)

[Northy]

Looks like an exact copy to me.

Nope, I've spotted differences.

But I will say it is totally shocking what they've done :thumbdown:

I ran my 410R at RHR yesterday, and enjoyed every single second of it! - just chucked that in, :lol:

G

[DCM]

Well, thanks to Durango and Neobuggy, if I wanted one, I now know where to go to get one...... how NOT to draw attention to it.... :woot:

[Chris Doughty]

what would annoy me the most would be that they have copied even the smallest non-important details (the shape of the face of the wheel as an example)

this is the equivilant of the 'bad boy' at school stealing your homework and copying it letter for letter, even the spelling mistakes.
(and sometimes handing it in before you so you get acused of copying them!! :woot: :mad: )

robocopy springs to mind here.

there is ABSOLUTELY no designers 'creation' here at all.

EDIT: actually, let my change my analagy from 'bad boy' to be 'retarded kid' at school (retarded as in actually thick and lazy, not actual retardation)

[HarlowS]

As said before, the bottom line is that Durango will make more on spares by getting more cars out there, so im sure they wont worry too much.

[Darren Boyle]

As said before, the bottom line is that Durango will make more on spares by getting more cars out there, so im sure they wont worry too much. I think Durango are worried all right, far more than some people think.......

[Alfonzo]

I don't own a Durango, but I'm guessing it looks the same because IT IS the same!? Probably out of the same factory, or at least from the same moulds.

There's no way Durango aren't worried by this.

[Bagman]

Surely anyone who buys one of these things in any of the main western markets is going to get slagged off something rotten and I still can't see the price going below that of a decent entry level car like a Cyber or something like that. These copies are going to be very rare and make the owner a bit of a laughing stock at any meetings they attend. As most new racers either seek advice from club racers before buying or go to their first race with a "toy" rc car then trade up after finding out how unsuitable it is I can't see this thing being an issue. It's not exactly going to be in Toys R Us is it?

[rcdunk]

Well, thanks to Durango and Neobuggy, if I wanted one, I now know where to go to get one...... how NOT to draw attention to it.... :woot:

best of luck with the translation lol

honestly though probably repeating what some people have said real racers wont buy it as its NOT a durango and by the looks of the plastic show it a jumpy brit track and its gonna break wishbones and turnbuckles faster than blinking lol

i would rather go for the real macoy and all the backup and support that you will get at a meeting fron team drivers etc even if it costs more. will probably last twice as long as the copy anyhow

[littlened]

If it's cheap enough, maybe people will buy it, and then replace a few parts to make it like the original, i.e. the front gearbox housing that would normally have the durango logo on it.

To be fair, if someone was to buy it, and they break a wishbone, they'll be buying a wishbone from durango.

It could help Durango in a way, however...if it's made from the same materials and in the same factory, then Durango will have a big problem, because it'll be a Durango without the logos!

[dave g]

is the durango made 'in house' by durango or subbed to be manufactured somewhere else?
if so is it possible the copy durango is from the same place?

the far east has no bones when it comes to copying things,and im pretty sure due to the non existant laws,or seemingly non enforced copyright laws over there,durango wont be able to do anything about it.

[Bagman]

If the DEX410R will be £210 this thing would have to be how much for people to take the risk on it £100 to £150? If they are shipping direct to customers from China you're looking at 10 to 20 quid on top of that. The clincher might be that the R would be with you in a couple of days as opposed to 3 weeks(?) for the Chinese thing. If it works out less than £120 I might even get one as a basher or to give to my son so he has one the same as mine without putting the good one at risk (ask my X10)

[littlened]

If the DEX410R will be £210 this thing would have to be how much for people to take the risk on it £100 to £150? If they are shipping direct to customers from China you're looking at 10 to 20 quid on top of that. The clincher might be that the R would be with you in a couple of days as opposed to 3 weeks(?) for the Chinese thing. If it works out less than £120 I might even get one as a basher or to give to my son so he has one the same as mine without putting the good one at risk (ask my X10)

If its cheap enough that's how some people might see it. Pay £100 or so quid to bash about or start racing, as you get better you can replace bit for original durango parts...eventually you end up with the real deal but without the risk.

I don't agree with the copying mind, if someone copied my website, I'd be furious!

[mark christopher]

is the durango made 'in house' by durango or subbed to be manufactured somewhere else?
if so is it possible the copy durango is from the same place?

the far east has no bones when it comes to copying things,and im pretty sure due to the non existant laws,or seemingly non enforced copyright laws over there,durango wont be able to do anything about it.

if i remember correctly durango is a far eastern company and manufactured by a company out there, much like serpents are, so it would be easy to use the moulds, but once you have the parts making the moulds is easy anyhow

on the bright side it has the 2mm pins in the drive shafts!

[Si Coe]

The 410R isn't £210 its provisionally £210 + VAT which means its substantially more. Therefore at £150 one of these is a viable option - if its not total junk that is!

I doubt any one would get slagged off at a track for buying one if its not crap - people would just consider it a bargain. Pragmatism tends to take the upper hand over ethics whatever people might claim. If it is poor the buyer might get laughed at though!

The problem is when people try to pass them off as the real deal. That Schumacher TC clone for example is even called an Mi4 - its only the fact it doesn't actually mention Schumacher anywhere in the details that you know its a knock off. Calling the car a TK410 suggest this may be similar.

[Bagman]

I didn't know it was 210 plus VAT, I'm going right off VAT at the moment.

I'll still be surprised if they can make it for under 150 though. There isn't the demand for it to have a big production run and redesigning the car must of cost them hundreds. Wonder what the box'll look like?

The other question is where will the first one turn up, someone is going to have to take that leap of faith.

Do many people have the fake Schumacher in the UK? I've heard it's well ropey but I've never seen it.

[littlened]

I didn't know it was 210 plus VAT, I'm going right off VAT at the moment.

I'll still be surprised if they can make it for under 150 though. There isn't the demand for it to have a big production run and redesigning the car must of cost them hundreds. Wonder what the box'll look like?

The other question is where will the first one turn up, someone is going to have to take that leap of faith.

Do many people have the fake Schumacher in the UK? I've heard it's well ropey but I've never seen it.

Who's to say it's redesigned? it could be being built on the same line as far as we know. Tooling is probably their most expensive outlay, and if they have access to the originals, then tooling would be a major issue. As for design etc, they've not designed anything so no cost there.

[Bagman]

Sorry about that, I'm struggling to pull off sarcasm in text form, that's twice it's failed now. Mind you the shocks look ever so slightly different.

To get an idea does anyone know how much the fake Mi4 was? I can't find it.

[littlened]

Sorry about that, I'm struggling to pull off sarcasm in text form, that's twice it's failed now. Mind you the shocks look ever so slightly different.

To get an idea does anyone know how much the fake Mi4 was? I can't find it.

sarcasm did cross my mind, so you got it half right :D

[Bagman]

I haven't lost it, well maybe half

[Ross]

The HPI Baja was cloned a few years ago,it was something like £750 for the Baja and £250-£300 for the clone, funnily enough the Baja parts fit the clone :D, this maybe the same :woot:

[pro4nut]

The risk of cloning is high, one company i worked for subbed out manufacture of a product to a company in china,
we ordered 50,000 units and had to pay for the tooling and set up etc...
they made 100,000 units and sold the other half as unbranded copies.

This situation has a ring of that situation about it.
We couldn't do a thing about it and the revenue loss was substantial, chinese manufacturers are like any other business only interested in the money they can make, if they can charge you for tooling and then make more after fulfilling your order sadly it is your look out as there laws do not protect you.

Durango decided to manufacture in china/far east i would imagine to keep cost down and profits up, much as people love the car i would imagine a good margin is made on its sale. In business if you make a descision around cost you have to live with the consequence and that morals and ethics can often be overridden with sufficient finance.


edit- couldn't help but laugh their website has the phrase 'copyright 2005-2010' now that takes the biscuit

[Si Coe]

The HPI Baja was cloned a few years ago,it was something like £750 for the Baja and £250-£300 for the clone, funnily enough the Baja parts fit the clone :D, this maybe the same :woot:

Some of the Baja clones (the KM for example) are pretty decent. Whilst HPI have tried to stop clone owners talking too much about them on major forums, there is no shame attached to the owners of such clones by other drivers.

[Darren Boyle]

I think that the trouble will be - and the same reason Durango ARE scared of it now - is when you end up with hybrids everyhwere, ie a rip-off that has been fixed with a few Durango parts etc. "IF" the parts are all interchangeable, as it looks like they will be, you will end up with cars floating around that are half and half (half copy half repaired/maintained with genuine parts) which will devalue the price of a "real" one when they are sold second hand etc for less. YOu could end up with all sorts of scenarios - a genuine car with cheap copy gearbox internals - or vice versa....it will be a nightmare for owners trying to sell and potential buyers wanting to be sure what they are getting.

The other thing is, "most" poeple on here are clued up and would spot one a mile off, but the same cannot be said for "all" off road racers at clubs bi and small all over the world and if they get to see this clone running and it is unreliabale and breaks easy, who is to say they dont think it is the real thing and are put off by it.

The sad reality is, unlike what some others have said, although it is made in China it will be sold all over the world (AlienPower who I linked to at the beginning of this thread on the RACER site are in Germany and will no doubt be a reseller or have it badged in their own name, as many of these cheap copies already are) It will be available very close to home I am sure, certainly in mainland European countries and that makes it just 24/48 hours shipping time away and not weeks as has been said.......

We dont stock Durango at DMS, although for the record I think the car looks fantastic and very well made, and it is no hidden secret that we do not see eye to eye with some of the big brass behind RC Disco/Durango over past dealings when they ran Mirage, however I would not wish this kind of blatant copying of products on anyone, reagrdless of their past business dealings. :thumbdown:

[pro4nut]

To be clear i do not agree with this copying of anothers intelectual property.
Despite my increasing years i am studying an engineering degree and cost of manufacture, copyright and patent are current subjects.

[Pablo668]

I am actually quite shocked at how close a copy it is.

I hate to admit it, if it's cheap and the quality is ok......I'd find it pretty tempting. If only because I rate the Durango design so highly.

I have a 501x and even with that the only reason I have one is because I managed to luck on to a brand new kit being sold cheap by someone who inexplicably) bought it, never opened it, and then sold it on.

I'd love a Durango and I think they are worth every penny....I just don't have that many pennies lying around.

In a perfect world we'd all support the original designer/company though.

[Bagman]

The risk of cloning is high, one company i worked for subbed out manufacture of a product to a company in china,
we ordered 50,000 units and had to pay for the tooling and set up etc...
they made 100,000 units and sold the other half as unbranded copies.


If they have done this then they could do anything with the price, I have to admit that for a ridiculously cheap price I would be very tempted for a reserve/spares car. I would've also have been tempted to buy it and not bother with the Durango if I was in that position. If the above quote is true for the Durango then it would be the same quality. It's going to be interesting to see what Durango will do with production now.

[joho]

A lot of people just assume the Durango are made in China, which is so not true...
I have translate the Team Durango statement in to chinese and post it in the chinese web-site. Most people are oppose it, but sadly, some of them are waiting for it...
Guys, R&D cost is somthing very hard to calculate, a rip off like this is so wrong, there are no way anyone should support behaviour like this...It's sad and sick...

[Bagman]

Where is it made then? I'm going to have a look at the box when I get back from work. If it's not China then they'll have to tool up for production and the cost of the rip off will go up as well as the quality dropping.

Don't get me wrong if you read my earlier posts I'm not in support of it but the feeling also looks like if the kit is of good quality and is cheap then it will gain acceptance as in other scales. I think Durango will stay ahead due to the support but also if the do an ongoing development for the car. In house manufacturing might not be the cheapest initially but it's the way to go in the long run. I'm sure that's the long term goal anyway.

I have to hold my hand up though and say that if is made on the same line with the same materials then at much less than half price I would be tempted, I'd feel guilty but .......

[joho]

Yes, you sghould be able to found it in the box, it's made in Taiwan. There's no way the rip off are coming from the same line with the same mold.....

[dave g]

i think someone else mentioned the heli scene earlier on in the thread and how copying was almost the norm.

the align trex 450 was the daddy of the 450 helis,then a few copies came out and the best was the copterx..it was an exact copy,and in someways better,it flew as good if not better.

now the story i heard was that the company who made the copterx originally made the align trex450 parts,they fell out and the company then made the copterx,hence an exact copy.

align could do nothing about this but they happily exist side by side in the heli market..so while its disgusting that someone can steal someones hard work so easy,it may not be the end of the world,as in the heli world people who bought the cheaper trex 450 clones would replace with genuine align trex450 parts as parts wore out...so while they didnt have maybe the mass heli sales cornered,the spares that they sold must have increased a lot.

[dpackster1980]

After looking at the pics on the top toys website no one will buy the copy over the "R Spec" because:-

1) It looks nasty.
2) The second hand value will be non existant.
3) You've got to be on smack to think they look the same!
4) There will be subtle differences which means parts more than likely won't be interchangeable.
5) The metal will be made of cheese.
6) I seriously doubt the drivetrain parts are interchangeable so when they wear out finding replacements will be impossible.
6) No UK distributor in their right mind would touch it because selling this cheap tat would do more harm than good even if Durango didn't threaten them.

Durango didn't need to issue the press release the pictures of the chinese poop buggy say it all.

All Durango have done is given the copy free advertising because people are now interested in it.

Will anyone buy it????? Me thinks not.

[pro4nut]

And you base those comments as someone that has seen one firsthand or because you have looked at some pictures on the internet like everyone else?

How on earth can you state as facts points that are purely opinion and supposition.

No one as yet knows what the quality will be like or anymore information than, the fact that it appears that a manufacturer elsewhere in the world has publicised images of car that appears to be a copy of the durango.

[mark christopher]

After looking at the pics on the top toys website no one will buy the copy over the "R Spec" because:-

1) It looks nasty.
2) The second hand value will be non existant.
3) You've got to be on smack to think they look the same!
4) There will be subtle differences which means parts more than likely won't be interchangeable.
5) The metal will be made of cheese.
6) I seriously doubt the drivetrain parts are interchangeable so when they wear out finding replacements will be impossible.
6) No UK distributor in their right mind would touch it because selling this cheap tat would do more harm than good even if Durango didn't threaten them.

Durango didn't need to issue the press release the pictures of the chinese poop buggy say it all.

All Durango have done is given the copy free advertising because people are now interested in it.

Will anyone buy it????? Me thinks not.


me thinks your the only one on that!!!!

[MRD]

For me part of owning the car is in the badge. I'm very proud of the cars I run so brand loyalty is high on my agenda. Lets hope people take the same view.

[HyperFX]

If the photo's are of the actual product, then anyone that purchases one of these blatant rip-offs will be helping alien crap screw Team Durango. I am in no way "proud" of any of the rc's I own (someone else designed them/did all the hard work, all I did was put them together), but, I am proud of the fact, that I'll never willingly help one company rip off another.
If there were no copyright laws, alien crap would still be wrong to do this, so don't be guilty of helping them, by purchasing one.

[moth898]

Can you guys stop talking about this already, I've seen this thread soo many times I'm going to buy one just to see whats the hype about. Its a copy don't buy and cancel this thread!!!:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdo wn::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:

[Battle_axe]

what curency is the price in if it is in yen then the car works out at £71 surely not

[Kifogrande]

Its chinese dude.. So it wont be Yen i dont think??

[pro4nut]

1 Chinese yuan = 0.0967322549 British pounds

[Battle_axe]

1 Chinese yuan = 0.0967322549 British pounds
but then the "cheep rip off" is £900

[Battle_axe]

oops double post

[dpackster1980]

How on earth can you state as facts points that are purely opinion and supposition.

No one as yet knows what the quality will be like or anymore information than, the fact that it appears that a manufacturer elsewhere in the world has publicised images of car that appears to be a copy of the durango.

I base it on the pics and purchasing alloy parts and other chinese so called upgrades in the past.

The alloy is normally of poor quality so it's no where near as durable, it wears out quick and generally poor fitting.

Carbon fibre is normally not the expensive woven type but pressed type and not as strong.

Do you think the plastic they use will be exactly the same as durango? Nope.

If they have done this which they more than likely have done based my experience it shouldn't go the same or even handle the same.

Buy one so i can laugh at you!

As for brand loyalty I don't race a Durango I run a B44, cheap, cheerful and honest.

[jameswilkinson7]

I'm very proud of the cars I run :woot:

How can you be proud of them old nails!!:woot:

[pro4nut]

I base it on the pics and purchasing alloy parts and other chinese so called upgrades in the past.

The alloy is normally of poor quality so it's no where near as durable, it wears out quick and generally poor fitting.

Carbon fibre is normally not the expensive woven type but pressed type and not as strong.

Do you think the plastic they use will be exactly the same as durango? Nope.

If they have done this which they more than likely have done based my experience it shouldn't go the same or even handle the same.

Buy one so i can laugh at you!

As for brand loyalty I don't race a Durango I run a B44, cheap, cheerful and honest.

What i said and what i will say again is that you have no factual information to base that assessment on.
I have no desire to buy one as i have already commited to a car for this season, i am purely interested to see what will happen, the durango is a premium brand, in a niche market i am unsure as to the impact this will have.

I respect your right to an opinion and the opinion that you put forward, i only disagree with opinion stated as fact.

[Pablo668]

Just looked at the copy pics again, I have to admit it's breathtaking how blatant the copy is.

[JonMack]

http://item.taobao.com/auction/item_detail-0db1-a3a813ce85228a6c2c0bc00ca8e364e0.htm

That's the page, the price is that high because

"Picture contains lithium with weights, unknown before the official sale is configured.

The official selling price of recently identified, please pay attention!

Which I think basically means they don't know the sale price of the model yet, but might be worth keeping an eye on just to see how low it goes.

http://toptoys.taobao.com/search-cat-35257643-58498753-MS8xMLXntq/UvdKw.htm?checkedRange=true

That's their 1/10th off road electric category.

[turbosimi]

Hello
Has alreade someone bought the durango clone?
I think i would buy one because it´s so cheap but i can´t read the chinese script! What should i do?
Thanks for your helb!

[Bungleaio]

What should i do?

Buy one from here http://www.team-durango.com/

[JonMack]

£133 + shipping :|

[turbosimi]

Hello

No the original one costs to much!
And how much does the shipping cost?

Thanks

Simon

[jimmy]

Buy a Mad Rat?

[turbosimi]

Hello
I want a 4wd buggy!
And i have already a mad rat!

[Aran]

if so, i would buy the new lrp blast s10, there around £130 and if not wait for the new ansmann blizzard 4wd which I believe will be a simular price.

probably be better than that durango rip off rubbish :D

[Flyinggekko]

you can`t pay the tk410 with an european credit card.

greetings

stephan

[jimmy]

Moving to the general car talk forum since this isn't Durango thread.

[JonMack]

Hello

No the original one costs to much!
And how much does the shipping cost?

Thanks

Simon

There's a reason the original costs so much, because of the quality of it.

I'm a fan of the phrase "Buy nice, or buy twice" implying that if you buy cheap rubbish, it's going to break and you'll end up buying what you wanted in the first place.

If you can't afford the 410 right now, wait for the R? If you can't afford that, then as others have said, get a Blast or another cheap RTR and upgrade the electronics. Or you could wait a few months and save until you can afford the 410...

[T4miy4 Guy]

There's a reason the original costs so much, because of the quality of it.

I'm a fan of the phrase "Buy nice, or buy twice" implying that if you buy cheap rubbish, it's going to break and you'll end up buying what you wanted in the first place.

If you can't afford the 410 right now, wait for the R? If you can't afford that, then as others have said, get a Blast or another cheap RTR and upgrade the electronics. Or you could wait a few months and save until you can afford the 410...

lol have you not read the durango forum then!

Andy :woot:

[JonMack]

:P I'm aware of the driveshaft issues!

[johnnygibbon]

might try my luck with one. kinda fancy a do-wrongo but not the price. even this copy and a 401r is cheaper than full price car. spares a plenty to. some copy stuff is well right . got a bmax at min . well used well loved well raced (well knackared) and will probly buy an ansmann for spares rather than paying close to300 quid for a new car. so not all copys are bad for us . i want to race regular not save up for a year for a car/spare parts. if i was loaded i would have bought a top spec durango any way and people with the cash available will still buy the genuine article.



of course if i was durango..........i would be livid:woot:

[peetbee]

so not all copys are bad for us .
And once Durango and others are put out of business by the people copying their cars what will we be left with?

The main reason that they charge less for the copies is that the original companies have to cover their R&D costs.

[Alfonzo]

Absolutely true.

[Bungleaio]

might try my luck with one. kinda fancy a do-wrongo but not the price. even this copy and a 401r is cheaper than full price car. spares a plenty to. some copy stuff is well right . got a bmax at min . well used well loved well raced (well knackared) and will probly buy an ansmann for spares rather than paying close to300 quid for a new car. so not all copys are bad for us . i want to race regular not save up for a year for a car/spare parts. if i was loaded i would have bought a top spec durango any way and people with the cash available will still buy the genuine article.



of course if i was durango..........i would be livid:woot:

:thumbdown:

Do you shop here too http://www.hot-replica.com/

[nicefrog]

I read someone say once, every factory in China does business both out the front door and backdoor and anything you get made there will be also sold out the backdoor/copied etc. There's a lot to be said for keeping your moulds in your own factory away from China sometimes

[Si Coe]

Oh come on! I mean that watch site just proves the point nicely - enough people are willing to pay thousands for a watch that the companies they make replicas of continue to exist.

There is always a market for the real deal, because a lot of racers have money to burn. In the last 2 weeks I've seen over a dozen brand spanking new Cougar SV's despite the fact the car has yet to prove itself (yes it can win big races, but is it a club car? Only time will tell....) meaning Schumacher has done well from its launch. Soon enough someone will copy the Cougar and sell it for less, but by then most of the new Cougar owners will have bought a TRF211 or DEX210 or whatever else is new. And the used section will be flooded with cut price real deal Cougars for less than the rip-off so why buy?

In fact, knock-offs only really encourage the innovators to keep innovating. Racers will always get the latest thing, so if you keep making something new, they'll keep buying and the cloners can't keep up. Its only an issue when you make the same car for a decade (Associated, Losi) or take a decade to eventually release the car (Durango)

[T4miy4 Guy]

Oh come on! I mean that watch site just proves the point nicely - enough people are willing to pay thousands for a watch that the companies they make replicas of continue to exist.

There is always a market for the real deal, because a lot of racers have money to burn. In the last 2 weeks I've seen over a dozen brand spanking new Cougar SV's despite the fact the car has yet to prove itself (yes it can win big races, but is it a club car? Only time will tell....) meaning Schumacher has done well from its launch. Soon enough someone will copy the Cougar and sell it for less, but by then most of the new Cougar owners will have bought a TRF211 or DEX210 or whatever else is new. And the used section will be flooded with cut price real deal Cougars for less than the rip-off so why buy?

In fact, knock-offs only really encourage the innovators to keep innovating. Racers will always get the latest thing, so if you keep making something new, they'll keep buying and the cloners can't keep up. Its only an issue when you make the same car for a decade (Associated, Losi) or take a decade to eventually release the car (Durango)

HERE HERE SI !!!

Andy

[peetbee]

I disagree. With the watches people are buying a brand, badge or label at prices that are inflated to maintain that image of exclusivity.

That's not the same situation that we are discussing with regards to why the clones are cheaper than the 'real deal'

[Si Coe]

Really?

How many people want a TRF201x because its a Tamiya? Rather a lot I can assure you. They love the brand and will buy the car because of who its made by. Losi and Associated have a similar following in the US (less so here though) and the hype surrounding the release of the Durango demonstrated that image and exclusivity have a value in 1/10th too.

I see the situation as no different to high end bicycles. You can buy cheaper bikes made to look (and sometimes pretty much work) like a Specialized or a Kona, but thats not why you spend the money. You buy a £1k+ bike to own a £1K+ bike, and feel self-satisfied because of it.

Some people buy 3 or more new chassis per year. They started last year with a Cat SX, then got a B-Maxx, then a Durango. They aren't doing that to help keep the RC industry afloat - they do it because they love racing and have the money to spend on their hobby. And what better to spend it on than the newest, most hyped up car on the track?

[shanks]

Have to agree Simon :thumbsup:

Your market analogy an hr earlier is spot on :thumbsup:

A copy over the real deal? the real Durango DEX410 straight from Durango UK (or uk shop as i did) in that loely black box - or some chinese copy - come on !! ?? :thumbdown:

[johnnygibbon]

fair enough i would always rather buy from a shop in england. even better nw england.and stuff like motors/servos/radio gear ect i think its essential to buy original brand uk sourced for the warrenty back up if something does break.
not the case for any car unless its manufactured improperly ( durango drive shafts any one:woot:) and for the lovely black box your paying an extra 300 quid

still fancy one though real or copied i will still smash it up wi my driving:thumbsup: might as well buy the cheapo one

[peetbee]

Really?
You make several good points in respect to brands, especially Tamiya.
But I still don't believe that they are all overpriced in comparison to the clones just because of the brand name, which is how those comparisons started.

[Alfonzo]

Well if it's all about brand and image, then we have to live with the 'high' price tag, as building and maintaining a desirable brand and image doesn't come cheap.

[shanks]

fair enough i would always rather buy from a shop in england. even better nw england.and stuff like motors/servos/radio gear ect i think its essential to buy original brand uk sourced for the warrenty back up if something does break.
not the case for any car unless its manufactured improperly ( durango drive shafts any one:woot:) and for the lovely black box your paying an extra 300 quid

still fancy one though real or copied i will still smash it up wi my driving:thumbsup: might as well buy the cheapo one



get your point - however i am asumming that any copies will not be exactly the same, materials, tolerences etc

I am basing this on things like motorbikes - plenty of direct honda, suzuki engine copies - which i know for a fact are just not the same thing

of course if a copy was exactly the same with no difference at all...

[j.m.]

If someone buys a knock off durango, who's company will be supported with buying spares??

Durango makes more per piece on spares and replacement parts than they do on full car kits.