Where does LOSI go now?

[jimmy]

Having just read the news on redrc, I see that LOSI aren't sending any drivers to Japan for the world championships. So, is this the beginning of the end for Losi in 10th off road racing? :confused:

Discuss.

[PaulRotheram]

Everything is making sence now, seeing alot of the big named drivers leave, and hearing of some of our own boys looking for other deals to get out..

The end is neigh!

[GRIFF55]

I think it would be a shame for them not to keep producing the cars(10th offroad) as they have been at the front for such a long time now, and especially the way most were going the weekend. Stange how they aren't sending a team to the worlds when it seems as if 10th offroad is thriving. Lots of new car releases this year it seems(first year back racing for me) , its good to see all the new cars coming out. Sad to see losi not doing the same:(

[jimmy]

:(


http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday18.jpg

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday20.jpg

[Mr X]

so i think the time has come to change my losi for a matching kyosho 2wd. its too bad losi is doing this i love my xxx and it would suck if i wasnt able to buy parts for it anymore. but its sort of not that big of a problem since i never broke a part on my car in 1.5 seasons.

[stefke]

Is this really official, or are they just not sending a team to the pre-worlds like they did for the worlds in Italy in 2005 ?

It would be a real shame. Parts support for Losi overhere is a lot better then AE. One of the main reasons I've bought a CR this season.

[jimmy]

The pre worlds was last year and you can't blame them for not sending a team to that, not many did. It was dominated by locals. No this is the real deal and Losi aren't apparently going to send any drivers. There might still be some 'losi drivers' attending but it wont be because of Losi/Horizon from what I understand.

[Nick Goodall]

I guess it'll be down to Kyosho to fill the gap and be the next best thing to Associated then? Shame really, just as it looks like there's a 3rd 2wd choice it may be back down to 2 again!

[Lee Martin]

looks as if horizon are messing things up for there racing team

[Lee]

Are losi going to achieve anything by sending their stars to the worlds?

its probably going to cost £50k to send over the team for the week, and even if they win are they going to make it back in sales?

I feel sorry for the UK team as losi for me has always been right up there.

I have heard though that some of the superstars are leaving off road to go rally x ing.

[jimmy]

They can make it back in sales if they have something to sell

[bigred5765]

:(


http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday18.jpg

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday20.jpg


Talk about two kids in a candy shop.

[Slimboyfat]

really cant see Losi being out of the game completely for the next few years expecially in 4wd here in the UK where give or take half the field uses the XX4 or XXX4.

It's still challenging at the top....take Lee and Aero out of the equation and which car would be hitting the top at most events.

Its a shame to hear but dont think everyone should panic yet just because they are not going to the worlds.

I for one when I get myself back into it again will use the XX4 just because i really like the car and i get no support what so ever....from anyone!

[millzy]

but what if the team drivers in the uk have zero back up and change chassis next year..... then the A finals will be full of what?

[OldTimer]

It's still challenging at the top....take Lee and Aero out of the equation and which car would be hitting the top at most events.

If you are talking nationals the S4 :cool:

I understand that the XX4 has been discontinued by Losi in the USA, so not sure were that leaves people, just stock up on shock towers while you can get them :rolleyes:

[stefke]

Whatever happened to that JRXS-based 4wd prototype Losi used at the previous worlds ?

I always thought 11th place wasn't that bad for what was essentially a parts-bin car. And like the JRXS itself, It would be nice to have something completely different from all the other clones out there (BJ4we in offroad, TRF414/415 in onroad).

[ashleyb4]

Losi will not go out of off road think of all the money they would loose the CR in america is HUGE they would proberly loose to much money this may just be a publistiy stunt but for sure ill be running a xx4 in 2008.

A

[Lee Martin]

the money for losi is in 8th.....

the CR is not HUGE in the states

[dave g]

its not losi anymore as such..its horizon hobbies,and in the usa all they want to sell is rtr kits,thats where the big easy money is im afraid.

[Lee]

but for sure ill be running a xx4 in 2008.

A

Thank god for that:p

Pidge is right, 8th is massive in the US, we have already seen LOSI and AE develop new cars from scratch!!

And ash the losi xxxcr is the same size no matter what country its in;)

[mark christopher]

Are losi going to achieve anything by sending their stars to the worlds?

its probably going to cost £50k to send over the team for the week, and even if they win are they going to make it back in sales?

I feel sorry for the UK team as losi for me has always been right up there.

I have heard though that some of the superstars are leaving off road to go rally x ing.
with an 8th losi rally x :rolleyes:

[mark christopher]

:(



http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday18.jpg (http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday18.jpg)

http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday20.jpg (http://www.oople.com/rc/photos/losibatley/bigimages/losiday20.jpg)


Talk about two kids in a candy shop.

and guess who is thinking £ signs and ebay with a new signed box!

jimmy how did you get him to batley?

[millzy]

he didnt they where there testing in with jukka and travis from the us and darren ellis and truman... jimmy sort of turned up with his camera and found them there lol

[Lee]

with an 8th losi rally x :rolleyes:

I know they will be using the 8 but its just not good for the uk team who prefer 10th and have been with losi for years

[jimmy]

I was 'tipped off' - I wasn't supposed to turn up there. Same thing with AE guys, they don't like me :eh?::D:)

When I reviewed the XX4 I can confess Losi were about as unhelpful a company as I'd come across, I guess they just weren't interested. Now I think about it I feel a bit silly having even contacted them. A 10 year old car that they didn't bother to change at all - how interested could they really be?
That's not a verdict on the car(s) at all, nothing 'wrong' with them as such, but you can't sell a car for 10 years, it has to be updated so you can keep selling.

[NeilD]

This is a bit like the Schumacher story...

[k£v!n]

I read somewhere that they are focusing more on 'basher' products rather then racing as they believe that more money can be made there, its silly really, just think of how many Losi's there were at the oswestry National almost 50% were Losi's

[Lee]

Well perhaps it will help the smaller companies if one of the big two is pulling out, hopefully we will see an increase in the BJ4`s S4`s etc and see them developed even further from the money they rake in from the extra sales:)

[jimmy]

Just as AE come along with a competitor for Losi - Losi bow out! AE will certainly be the dominating force (in terms of numbers) next year.

[burgie]

Just because Losi aren't sending their team to the worlds doesn't mean that they are getting out of 1/10th scale off-road. Maybe with Mr Losi leaving to go to kyosho, and the probable management nightmares that that has caused, it may be simply that Losi have enough to do without worrying about the worlds - especially if 1/10th off-road is not their "growth" area at the moment.

It is an interesting scenario though.

[mark christopher]

there is no losi named employee working at losi any more

[burgie]

there is no losi named employee working at losi any more

that must mean they are giving up on 1/10th off-road then.

[jimmy]

The impression I got was that Gil left because he didn't have freedom to make things like new electric off roaders. In other words the current situation is why he left, not because he left. But hey, all speculation - I only know what I read.

[dave g]

i think what you have to look at now,is who is left at horizon/losi to design and carry the next buggy on,or indeed carry on the evolvment of the current crop of cars,as i said previous,the big money is in rtr kits,they dont have to be factory spec or the latest all singing/dancing performance car as its mainly beginners who are buyin them..so they can quite happily keep knocking the losi8 rtr buggy out for the next 10 yrs or so..but what happens to the hardcore racer who wants the next racing spec machine?

[Lee]

It will certainly leave a gap in the market if they are to take a back seat design wise.
Maybe if one of the smaller companies can grab a top driver like Atomic did with doughty and Xfactory with Big E and the right financial input then they could become the next big thing, although we may be losing one of the big hitters it will be a refreshing change, plus dont forget in 2wd alone there is the S2 and the 2wd pred on the way.

I like it!!:cool:

[Lee Martin]

a 2wd pred?

[jimmy]

Yeah pidge, Lewis Dickinson the new owner said in an interview on this site that they were planning a 2WD

[burgie]

yep 2wd pred.....originally designed about 10 years ago, and legend has it that it is a mid motor layout too....

[Lee Martin]

no-one kno anything........????

the x11 aint even out yet lol.

[mark christopher]

yep 2wd pred.....originally designed about 10 years ago, and legend has it that it is a mid motor layout too....
was the proto type called fabix :D

[terry.sc]

i think what you have to look at now,is who is left at horizon/losi to design and carry the next buggy on,or indeed carry on the evolvment of the current crop of cars,as i said previous,the big money is in rtr kits,they dont have to be factory spec or the latest all singing/dancing performance car as its mainly beginners who are buyin them..so they can quite happily keep knocking the losi8 rtr buggy out for the next 10 yrs or so..but what happens to the hardcore racer who wants the next racing spec machine?Jukka Steenari is AFAIK still their lead designer, he seems to know a thing or two about 1/10th electric. Just because Gil has left doesn't mean the company is finished, Associated seems to be managing quite well on the racing scene without Roger Curtis and Gene Husting.

So they aren't sending a team over to Japan at great expense to be beat by the might of Associated again or by the Japanese companies seriously looking for a home win. I suspect it is more to do with where the worlds are rather than what they are, if the worlds were in USA or Europe I'm sure we would see a Losi team there.

Electric off road is a small segment of the market and I suspect what is most likely to make Losi stop making buggies are all those racers who are now going to sell all their Losi cars just because Losi didn't send a team to the Worlds. Missing one race meeting doesn't make the cars uncompetitive, I'm sure all those that sell up will be regretting that decision if Losi wins the next big race meeting.
If racers stop buying their cars they will pull out of electric off road, why still make buggies if it is unprofitable when it is cheaper to develop and more profitable to sell bashers.

[burgie]

the 2wd ttech car (as was) was designed by Richard Weatherley about 10 years ago, and then put on hold.

the design stage of the car was briefly resurrected shortly after the X10 was released, and then put on hold once again. When xtreme bought ttech, they basically took stock of what was there (4wd, 2wd and tourer I think) and then put their design ideas onto them. Hence the X11 was born from the X10 and the 2wd was resurrected again and updated, but i am not sure of the touring car status. Lewis has said to me that he wishes to offer 4wd, 2wd and touring cars to the market, so i am sure the touring car will be out one day.

As for configuration and layout of the 2wd, apart from it having one wheel on each corner I am not certain that it is mid engined or not. I gleaned that snippet of information during a conversation with Richard a few months back.

[Nick Goodall]

It's all very well going down the RTR route, but not much good if you get all these people into racing and they then need something competitive so have to turn elsewhere to companies such as Associated/Kyosho?

I can understand why they're not putting in $$$$ to 1/10th though, it's all very well saying "half the field at Oz were Losi's" - But that to me makes up what 60 cars max??? On the grand scale of things, that is absolutely feck all is it really???

America is where it matters to be honest, if it's dying out there for them they're not going to justify all the $$$$'s needed to design anything new just because there maybe 60 Losi cars at a UK national........ the scene over here must be like a drop in the ocean compared to what gets spent in the US?

Considering we don't have one off road track (that i know of) that has a permenant shop just shows really as sooo soooo many in the USA do - think how much money they must turn over daily and not just on race days as they can provide a testing ground for people to come and have a play! That's got to be the best way to sell these kind of products?

[Lee]

If the uk had a shop with a track open all week, would it be successful?

I know of a piece of land and i know a shop that would snap up the chance, but how successful would it be?

[Nick Goodall]

Who knows Lee? Guess that's the problem really.

The only way to do it would be to have a proper indoor Dirt track (So Cal or Comp Hobbies style) so you could have a really good proper supercross style track allowing all classes of Off Road, then you could hold big meetings there at weekends and let people come and practise/try/buy stuff in the week for a fee.

I guess market research would be needed, but i think the problem here is that everything is expensive in the UK and people generally don't have the spare time/money for a hobby like R/C??

[MarkWesterfield]

Its really tough for hobby shop owned indoor r/c tracks to survive out here in the US. Any good property that has visability in a high traffic area is very very expensive, all the cheaper property is in a low traffic hard to find industrial park (not that much cheaper really). The problem is that an r/c track and the pit area, along with the amount of parking space a larger race would require is ALOT of square footage that dosen't provide much income per square foot (which is what your rent is based on).

Most of the kits sold at the hobby shops with tracks, never get run on the track, of the few that do get run on the track, even less of those get raced during a organized race.

I wouldn't waste your time unless your already own the property, have a good education (and budget) with advertising, and are genuinely intrested in getting new people intrested in the hobby and want to spend time helping them learn.

[Lee Martin]

Jukka Steenari is AFAIK still their lead designer, he seems to know a thing or two about 1/10th electric. Just because Gil has left doesn't mean the company is finished, Associated seems to be managing quite well on the racing scene without Roger Curtis and Gene Husting.

So they aren't sending a team over to Japan at great expense to be beat by the might of Associated again or by the Japanese companies seriously looking for a home win. I suspect it is more to do with where the worlds are rather than what they are, if the worlds were in USA or Europe I'm sure we would see a Losi team there.

Electric off road is a small segment of the market and I suspect what is most likely to make Losi stop making buggies are all those racers who are now going to sell all their Losi cars just because Losi didn't send a team to the Worlds. Missing one race meeting doesn't make the cars uncompetitive, I'm sure all those that sell up will be regretting that decision if Losi wins the next big race meeting.
If racers stop buying their cars they will pull out of electric off road, why still make buggies if it is unprofitable when it is cheaper to develop and more profitable to sell bashers.

Jukka stopped working for losi and retired from RC a few years ago now...he lives back in finland

[Chrislong]

Talking to Paul, I hear a lot of the tracks which are formed indoor ones attached to a shop are actually a little 'out of town'.

I think the issue for a potential track is the catchment area of racers. In the USA they seem to think nothing of travelling 100miles for a club meeting, compared to the majority of us who consider 70miles too far for anything other than a regional/national. Perhaps we work too many hours to pay for life. Perhaps the cost of motoring and the joys of congestion is worse than USA meaning we have a different concept to travelling.

Personally id like one of these in the UK, something which is reformed every couple of months to keep it interesting, ran properly, well presented and thrived. Id even consider being part of the team to be honest, but the truth is, its too big of a risk in this country.

Chris

[Lee]

Chris, the reason why i asked is, my brothers girlfriends parents are pretty loaded, Her dad got about 5 fields with the house they bought but he cannot get planning permission for them even though there is "stables/workshops" at one end. these fields are huge, approx 6 football pitches side by side.

I wouldn`t of thought a bit of asto/dirt/cobbles etc would require planning permission as it would always be changing so therefore not a permanent fixture?;)

At the moment these fields are making him no cash so a couple of hundred quid a week is better than a kick in the nuts for him.

[Chrislong]

Lee, that is awesome! Sounds like an ideal situation for something to be started with.. ;)

[Lee]

Its in the northwest too so its nearer to you than me:D

the only problem is bury and southport clubs are within 50 mile, and they seem to struggle for numbers?:(

[Chrislong]

Hey Lee, thats even cooler.

Southport have a very loyal club base, but it may be worth making contact with Bury (Stuart & Roger Wood) to see if they'd consider being part of this? Honestly, its worth a thought.

Chris

[Doomanic]

A few years ago I priced up an industrial unit in a regeneration area with enough space for 2 indoor tracks and parking/pitting for approx 100 racers.......


....How does £46K plus vat per annum sound?:o
That excludes rates, utilities and insurance.

Not really practical imho.:(

[Markoxx4]

Only a few weeks ago I was looking to set up an indoor track in Bradford. The business model was very good and would have worked. The thing that stops it from happening is the local council, this applies to any council not just Bradford.
1. What ever the rent of the building is, im my case it was £65k/year the council slap on as business/council tax. So now your rent is £130k/year

2. The type of unit you would need is industrial and that is what the council has set its usage license as. To use it as a track you need to obtain a change of use. And they won’t let you!!

Now I always thought that your local authority would welcome a new business start up to improve the region. But they actually make it really difficult!!
When all out going costs were added up it came to over £150k/year. Because of the risk associated with a relatively small sport/hobby and the large outgoings no bank would ever entertain giving you a business loan to set up in the first place!!

So say thanks to the government of this country!!!

[annie_himself]

The XXXT-CR has been announced from Losi, its on RCTech and Ultimaterc.com

[mark christopher]

http://www.redrc.net/2007/07/team-losi-xxx-t-cr-racing-truck/

[Chris Doughty]

Cool, XXX-T JR eddition... (Jesse Robbers)

[antnee]

who needs 1/10th offroad? lets all buy 1/36th micro-t's!!!;)

on the track note, many people from notts, derby area travel quite far to go to phil booth models(j26 m1) and he also has a website, so being 'near' the racers doesnt matter, if i had the money/land i would set up a shop and track now, the instant! the internet does wonders you know, i think many hobby shops do more internet trade than actual shop trade. RCmart in HK is run from a flat!:wtf:

[terry.sc]

the internet does wonders you know, i think many hobby shops do more internet trade than actual shop trade. RCmart in HK is run from a flat!:wtf:Not quite:o. How many shops can compete with this.
http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/about_us.php?osCsid=9e5eee86d67b40f331a5976382219b a8

[jimmy]

"Beauti Receptionists" lol

[Lee]

Thats a nice pad he`s got there:D

[DCM]

Chris, the reason why i asked is, my brothers girlfriends parents are pretty loaded, Her dad got about 5 fields with the house they bought but he cannot get planning permission for them even though there is "stables/workshops" at one end. these fields are huge, approx 6 football pitches side by side.

I wouldn`t of thought a bit of asto/dirt/cobbles etc would require planning permission as it would always be changing so therefore not a permanent fixture?;)

At the moment these fields are making him no cash so a couple of hundred quid a week is better than a kick in the nuts for him.

Lee, from my understanding, if they are agricultural fields, you can build a permanent track on them without planning permission, and temporary structures, but as soon as you want to 'build' a shop etc, then the field is subject to a change of use, as it can no longer be easily turned back to a field, so planning permission would then be needed.

[Lee]

Yeah this was my understanding also, If there was "temporary" containers ie perter cabins that a shop was based from i assume this would also be ok as there are no foundations etc?;)

[Chrislong]

LOL, I was thinking the same as you Lee. Container, Porta-cabins or a converted trailer (Wnngs N Wheels stylee).

[Lee]

Its do-able:)

[DCM]

The only issue I would see from that, is from a business point of veiw, getting insurance on what is, a temporary structure.

[Northy]

Lee, from my understanding, if they are agricultural fields, you can build a permanent track on them without planning permission, and temporary structures, but as soon as you want to 'build' a shop etc, then the field is subject to a change of use, as it can no longer be easily turned back to a field, so planning permission would then be needed.

Nope, York have been through this. I think you can use the land for 14 days a year without change of use, but if you add any permanant features (jumps etc) then you need change of use.

G

[DCM]

best go speak to the council then.

I know a local club here is based on a farm, which part of it has been converted to a golf course.... they built their track on an area that was part of the 'golf course' plans, and were told that they should of built it else where on the 'farm land'.

[antnee]

Not quite:o. How many shops can compete with this.
http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/about_us.php?osCsid=9e5eee86d67b40f331a5976382219b a8
:o im sure the stuff i got it said it was from a flat

[ashleyb4]

Maybe losi arent going out of off road racing as they have just released there new racing truck.....

http://www.teamlosi.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=LOSK0077

A:wtf:

[Dunc]

Ash, that had already been pointed out earlier in the thread....:rolleyes: ;)

Anyway, it's not much use to the UK racing scene.

It seems Horizon are being quite insular about their product line decisions by catering almost exclusively to the tastes of the American market. Not cool in my opinion. It's certainly going to make me think twice about buying Losi again in the future.

[ashleyb4]

I know but the story is that losi is stopping all the 1/10th racing well the obviously not. And all losi products are aimed at the american market we just make them work on our tracks.

a

[terry.sc]

It seems Horizon are being quite insular about their product line decisions by catering almost exclusively to the tastes of the American market.
Probably due to at least 80-90% of their sales will be in the USA. It's the same reason Associated have only recently announced a 4wd buggy, yet they have had cars for every other market segment. The B4 is also a car designed purely for the US hard packed dirt tracks, it just happens to work well on multisurface tracks as well.

[Dunc]

Correct, the American market is huge compared to that of the UK and I'm not saying they can't or shouldn't cater for particular market segments, that's entirely up to them. But if they turn their back on some of their consumers, how can they expect them to remain loyal to the brand?

It's their change in attitude that I find a turn off. It may well be good fortune that their cars work well in the UK, but in the past I always felt they at least had an interest in the UK 1/10 OR market. Now after various parts shortages and the potential withdrawal of certain kits they seem to be saying "do what you like, we don't care."

I guess I'm so disappointed because I've always held Losi in high regard and find it a shame that they're acting as they are.

[MarkWesterfield]

Depends how you look at it, Not too many people over here in America give High regards to Horizon either (remember Team Losi is just a brand name now, not a company)

The company that Gil Losi Sr and Jr ran was a great company, Horizon sucks ass.

[vader]

I've always wondered when someone says that, how exactly do you 'suck' an ass :confused:

[redaV]

Its easy just watch Ash the next time Sleigh is online;)

[MarkWesterfield]

Pucker up and suck on the hole. Yeah, Horizon is that bad.

[losixxx]

Its easy just watch Ash the next time Sleigh is online;)

my qoute of the year:D :D

[Dunc]

Depends how you look at it, Not too many people over here in America give High regards to Horizon either (remember Team Losi is just a brand name now, not a company)

The company that Gil Losi Sr and Jr ran was a great company, Horizon sucks ass.

Couldn't agree more. Some businesses manage to maintain their identity and ideals in spite of being purchased by larger 'profit driven' companies, it seems Team Losi hasn't been one of them. A real shame IMO.

[jimmy]

I read today that Losi will continue to make parts for the XX4 but that the XX4 itself is now discontinued.

Are the Horizon UK team now going to race the Academy brand?

[_sleigh_]

I read today that Losi will continue to make parts for the XX4 but that the XX4 itself is now discontinued.

Are the Horizon UK team now going to race the Academy brand?
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[_sleigh_]

I read today that Losi will continue to make parts for the XX4 but that the XX4 itself is now discontinued.

Are the Horizon UK team now going to race the Academy brand?

Where'd you read this... I'm bored at work and could do with a good read...

[jimmy]

This is on RCTECH.NET - american forum. Horizon took down the XX4 apparently, but say they will still make spares available.

[losixxx]

the xx4 was rereleased as a ''limited edition''
but as teamlosi.com states All parts have been and will remain available as well.

[Chris Doughty]

my life would have been sooo much easier without the swarm of xx4's around me at southport... :wtf:

[bigred5765]

i bet it was just a release to get rid of old stock,
and as far as support,front shock towers need i say anymore lol
rant over now,sorry but i feel better

[Chris Doughty]

haha, I just read that thread Jimmy was on about, some dude thinks that the xxx4 was designed for europe... how backwards could that be?

I guess thats why Truhe loves on his flat +jumps dirt tracks? :p

[ashleyb4]

I hope xx4 parts are still going to be produced as ive decided to run mine in 2008. I love it :)

A

[jimmy]

should be no problem as long as they are still imported and stocked ash

what happened to your B44 desires tho? that didn't last long ;)

[Wraggy]

changes as often as the weather !! :p

[ashleyb4]

I ordered the b44 wednesday night. Ill see how everything goes. Im going to see how marston goes as so far i havent had a good result with the xx4. But i love the car so ill proberlyend up unning both of them next year.

Also sleigh make sure you post up all your setups for us :D:p

A

[_sleigh_]

There's only really one set-up needed for the XX4.

[ashleyb4]

Cool.

Ill come and see you at marston as i have my end of seasons final entry to hand in and i need my diffs checking again lol.:p

A

[tyreman]

i bet it was just a release to get rid of old stock,
and as far as support,front shock towers need i say anymore lol
rant over now,sorry but i feel better

Well if it was to get rid of "old stock", you'll be knackered switching over to the X5 then, as it uses the same "badly supported parts" as the XX4.

But you should be ok with all of the front shock towers you bought, as I don't suppose you sold too many on eBay at £18 each +p&p.

I do sometimes wonder if you post for the sake of posting?
My rant over!!

[ashleyb4]

Are you still running the losi's next year brian or are you changing???

A

[tyreman]

As far as I'm concerned i'm still running the XXXcr & XX4we next year.

Dependant on the tracks we go to next year I may resurect my XXX4g+.

[ashleyb4]

gdgd at least ill have someone to help me with my car if i get stuck with something.

A

[bigred5765]

sold all the front shock tower,s.
and lets see whats coming to replace the front shock towers shall we lmao,
it was good while it lasted,onward and upward,