View Full Version : PT's at Nationals
ive heard a from some relaible sources that PT's are to be mandatory at Nationals next year.
Whats peoples opinions on this?
i for one think its a joke as those who dont already have PT's will have to shell out around £120 to have one for both cars. :thumbdown:
dont see why they would make the decision not to provide handouts.
Craig
MattW
10-09-2010, 12:21 PM
It will only go that way if it's voted at the AGM - at this stage, it will (if true) only be a proposal.
The reason is likely to be cost to the section. The handouts need maintenance (unlike Personals) and I can assure you that replacing batteries and general upkeep is expensive. I guess who ever proposed it didn't think it was worth that cost to the section for what I suspect is a few people that use them.
Personally I switch mine between cars overnight - ther's no law to say you've got to buy 2.
simoncrabb
10-09-2010, 12:25 PM
I was very surprised to see people in off-road Nationals still using handouts, I thought everyone had gone to PTs years ago.
PTs put the responsibility onto the driver, making it easier (and cheaper) for the organisers.
(And it doesn't have to be £120, a used one and a couple of clones would be about that?)
One reason people run handout's, is that with a PT, any missed laps are not the race directors problem, they are yours, if they provide a Transponder, and you have missed laps, they have to then sort it.
c0sie
10-09-2010, 12:38 PM
MRT PT's are cheap aswell.
It aint like £45-60 is alot really compared to what we all spend in the grand scheme of things.
mattybucks
10-09-2010, 12:54 PM
You only need one PT and some velcro, I can't see what the problem is myself. It's a one off purchase.
I had an email from MyLaps (formerly AMB) about a week ago saying that Handout Transponders had been dropped from the product range.
They are taking handout transponders sets in as part-ex for discounts on PT's.
So at some point everybody will have to change over to PT... unless somebody can break the monopoly of course!
Copy 'n' paste of MyLaps email....
"We will no longer produce rechargeable transponders after our existing (very) limited stock is shipped. As honouring ongoing warranty is very important to us, rechargeable transponders submitted for repair under warranty will now be replaced by RC4 transponders.
To assist with this transition process, we are happy to announce the availability of trade in options for customers that wish to upgrade to RC4 transponders. This will be available until the end of November 2010."
MattADH
10-09-2010, 02:43 PM
One reason people run handout's, is that with a PT, any missed laps are not the race directors problem, they are yours, if they provide a Transponder, and you have missed laps, they have to then sort it.
I for one have been keen for PT users to be treated the same as ones with handouts. The guidelines have been tweaked over the years at Nationals as the number of PT users has increased. Missed laps are much less frequesnt although drivers still have to remember to install the PT in/plug it in/inform the race director of the right number/make sure it works!
Also, PT users are getting better at eliminating potential missed laps with better positioning and installation. At the local club, we try to keep an eye on signal strength and advise reloation of the PT or a handout if this is the case.
Sad I know but at Southport, only 21 or 22 drivers were using a handout transponder in 4WD. I remember when the first AMB PTs came out, I looked at the cost and throught I would hold off buying one until the prce came down. They were about £30 each through a club!
PaulRotheram
10-09-2010, 02:44 PM
Got to say that is highly gay!
Think its safe to say the pt hike in price is here to stay if they are removing handouts unless they find an alternative.
I understand the costs as I've seen the bills for simple things for battery replacements, but handouts were always a good item to have at a club for the new starters or people not needing a pt.
Mr Eccleston
10-09-2010, 03:29 PM
If you want to have a go at replacing the battery yourself, replacements can be sourced here:
http://www.espspecialbatteries.co.uk/CAT%208.asp?manufacturer=AMB%20TRANSPONDER
other vendors may be available.
You can use someone to do the replacement for you, and pay that extra, but if you take your time it is achievable by most people, just be carefull.
Remember that if you open it yourself wave goodbye to any warranty.
Regarding PT's, I think if we do go down this root, there has to be some responsibility from race control to advise of poor signals, perhaps during practice. Usual problem I see is pt plugged in reverse into Rx, shows up on bbk software as an usually thin line in the signal strength monitor.
Also as another option to what has been discussed above, you could purchase 1 of the new AMB rc4 pt's, and an extra cradle for less than £2. This then allows you to slide the pt out from one car and into another. Just an idea to consider.
sosidge
10-09-2010, 04:27 PM
Copy 'n' paste of MyLaps email....
"We will no longer produce rechargeable transponders after our existing (very) limited stock is shipped. As honouring ongoing warranty is very important to us, rechargeable transponders submitted for repair under warranty will now be replaced by RC4 transponders.
To assist with this transition process, we are happy to announce the availability of trade in options for customers that wish to upgrade to RC4 transponders. This will be available until the end of November 2010."
I'm very disappointed to hear this.
Dropping handout transponders is a real disincentive for new club racers to get involved in the sport.
Expecting them to spend £60+ on an official bug just to race is a needless cost. PT's are not built in the same way and they won't last if they are being constantly plugged and unplugged and stuck down in different cars all day long.
I always felt that a rack of handouts was essential - even if there were only three people using them. Without that rack of handouts, those three people may not have been racing at all.
But the proposal isn't for 'newbies' we are talking National drivers, so to be fair, a PT is two sets of tyres (re the other thread about control tyres).
Look at the costs though, that have been saved in the past 2 years, brushless, one motor for a whole season, no brushes, two packs of batteries to do a whole season, not six....
David Church
10-09-2010, 04:50 PM
I think PT's only is the way forward. Yes it will cost £££ to get sorted, then it can be a fit and forget item!!!
This will also help at race meetings as you won't have to wait for a handout to be returned before the next heat/race.
People that are against PT's need to think of the people that run and help run these meetings, it's getting harder and harder to get people to help.
I am sure many clubs will buy a few extra PT's to hand out to newbies for a race meeting.
After all this is a expensive hobby compared to football, but the BRCA do alot to keep cost down.
bigred5765
10-09-2010, 04:54 PM
Pt's are the future,Miles easier
mikeyscott
10-09-2010, 05:08 PM
As someone who runs a club I can see both sides.
For me PTs all the way, it's easier for both club and racer.
However I do have a number of members at our club on a v tight budget and I believe they'd stop racing or wouldn't race as often if it wasn't for the handout transponders. We had 4 this year until I got one swapped due to a duff battery, so we're back up to 5 handouts. From a cost side of things they are bloody expensive.
A collinson strikes again!! :lol:
It's mandatory at 1/8th scale nationals to have a PT so why shouldnt it be with 1/10 scale?
In real terms you only need one so it's £60 not £120.
BEN
Pt's are the future,Miles easier
The future? :confused: They've been for a few years now haha
A collinson strikes again!! :lol:
It's mandatory at 1/8th scale nationals to have a PT so why shouldnt it be with 1/10 scale?
In real terms you only need one so it's £60 not £120.
BEN
Shut it Ben!! :p
carlin
10-09-2010, 07:41 PM
The only thing i cant understand is why a AMB PT is so expensive?
You can buy MRT PT does same job but cheaper.
Alot of the other Nationals like 1/8th & 1/10th IC onroad you have to run them, dont give hand outs either.
Also you guys wont be stood waiting on the rostrum for ages while Danny McGee is fiddling with his Hand Out :p
bigred5765
10-09-2010, 07:48 PM
The future? :confused: They've been for a few years now haha
yeh like garlic bread
mark christopher
10-09-2010, 08:13 PM
One reason people run handout's, is that with a PT, any missed laps are not the race directors problem, they are yours, if they provide a Transponder, and you have missed laps, they have to then sort it.
then do like we do at 10th ic, if the bug starts its lap/clock then is was plugged in if the driver has a missed lap we will look into it as restore it if its a fair claim
if the bug failed to start the race/clock then its fair to say it was not plugged in or faulty which the owness is then on the driver.
we have a warm up in ic where the RD will check the bugs and cars are out most of the time
im sure i have seen your guys do a lap to run round the track, a switched on RD can chack all cars are registered.
I think PT's only is the way forward. Yes it will cost £££ to get sorted, then it can be a fit and forget item!!!
This will also help at race meetings as you won't have to wait for a handout to be returned before the next heat/race.
People that are against PT's need to think of the people that run and help run these meetings, it's getting harder and harder to get people to help.
I am sure many clubs will buy a few extra PT's to hand out to newbies for a race meeting.
After all this is a expensive hobby compared to football, but the BRCA do alot to keep cost down.
clubs wont have to buy extra pt is they have hand outs, the more users that run thier own pt the club has more had out to preserve and last longer for the newbies!
clubs can also but at a discount for bulk, our section ordered a bulk amount and passed the saving direct to our racers. we are as below soley on PT
A collinson strikes again!! :lol:
It's mandatory at 1/8th scale nationals to have a PT so why shouldnt it be with 1/10 scale?
In real terms you only need one so it's £60 not £120.
BEN
it is in on road!! :thumbsup:
The only thing i cant understand is why a AMB PT is so expensive?
Out
monopoly (bar MRT)and they know once you have one, ur unlikley to buy lots more
i highly recomend mrt. i have one old amb and 3 mrt bugs all the same number.
mine must be over 4 years old plus now
Bob Burr
10-09-2010, 08:53 PM
Its inevitable that in the end all racers will have to own a PT, Bedworth has 3 sets of handouts (we were selling one but withdrew it when AMB anounced they were stoping making them), yes batteries can be replaced but as they brake, go missing etc in the end clubs will end up with none (OK may be years down the line), to lend a PT we would want a £60 deposit incase that person went off with it (hand out come back at the end of each race so we can constantly check for mising ones).
The cost of a genuine PT is now only about £65 so no more than a motor or pack of Lipos so if you can afford £100s on race equipment why not a PT, why should the clubs keep spending out thousand's on handouts ? that money could go elsewhere.
ON MRT PTs beware ! im not sure where they are getting the numbers from but they are not unique like AMB ones, we had one person buy a MRT PT and 6 of the numbers were already registered to people racing at Bedworth ?? we have also had people try to book in and i have had to tell them there PT number is already registered, our policy is the genunine AMB number always get priority, yes they work fine, cheep and getting one cloned for your second car is fine, but what happens when that person gives up and sells both PTs locally to different people.
This problem will only get worce with the demise of the handout transponder.
MattADH
10-09-2010, 09:45 PM
ON MRT PTs beware ! im not sure where they are getting the numbers from but they are not unique like AMB ones, we had one person buy a MRT PT and 6 of the numbers were already registered to people racing at Bedworth ?? we have also had people try to book in and i have had to tell them there PT number is already registered, our policy is the genunine AMB number always get priority, yes they work fine, cheep and getting one cloned for your second car is fine, but what happens when that person gives up and sells both PTs locally to different people.
This problem will only get worce with the demise of the handout transponder.
My understanding is that MRT own 20 AMB PTs of which they have the numbers for.
If you are not cloning an existing AMB unit, you can buy an MRT PT with 20 stored numbers on it and its possible to select one of these numbers for the MRT unit to transmit.
Maybe the other six guys also had purchased a MRT unit as this would explain the duplication. As I said, this is my understanding and I may have got this wrong...
I do know that for my local club, we need to keep as many of our handouts working for as long as possible to support the youngsters and those with limited funds. Now that AMB have chosen to discontinue PTs - which I believe is the reason why the BRCA 1:10 section will move over to PTs solely in 2011 - I guess that slowly the club and regional racers will make the changeover.
When the 1:8 off-road section changed to PTs only, I dont think that PTs were as common yet there was little resentment to the decisiom. For the organisers, it was a time-consuming and frustrating situation to use handouts...
Dazzler
10-09-2010, 09:47 PM
Firstly I have PT's and so this would not cause me an issue, however I can see it may cause others an issue, I also remember a post not to long back on here where the BRCA were looking into an alternative, more cost effective system. If this is imminent, would it not be a bit off to make it compulsory for everyone who wanted to race national level meetings go out and purchase a PT (AMB or MRT) only for it to become redundant if or when the BRCA find that system? Maybe a BRCA rep could update on progress of the alternative system they are looking at, and give due consideration when imposing the switch over onto drivers.
telboy
10-09-2010, 10:30 PM
All they have to do to make sure everyone PTs are working, is to run timing during the two practice sessions.
If someones PT isn't counting, then they can discuss with the driver after P1.
so I can't see it being a problem. As said before, I switch mine between the two cars...when I run two cars. :(
Bit of a pointless thread really..
If everyone ran a PT at nationals this would save the scruitineers the hassle of handing out and trying to find transponders that people have left in there car when they go out to marshall aswell. It happens!!!
peetbee
11-09-2010, 12:10 AM
MRT are looking to do a 'club PTX' to replace handout transponders.
Uses the same ID as a handout rather than the pt.
Sounds interesting as apparently it'll only be available to clubs!
Also, I don't understand the issue with the MRT pt's, as long as you're not in the same heat as someone with the same number as you it'll be fine.
You just get them to change to one of the other 10 or 20 numbers in the PT's memory until it doesn't clash - the same applies to the clones, you get the clone number plus the others.
mark christopher
11-09-2010, 09:40 AM
Firstly I have PT's and so this would not cause me an issue, however I can see it may cause others an issue, I also remember a post not to long back on here where the BRCA were looking into an alternative, more cost effective system. If this is imminent, would it not be a bit off to make it compulsory for everyone who wanted to race national level meetings go out and purchase a PT (AMB or MRT) only for it to become redundant if or when the BRCA find that system? Maybe a BRCA rep could update on progress of the alternative system they are looking at, and give due consideration when imposing the switch over onto drivers.
it was said at last years agm there was nohing else on the market that was comparable for the AMb, so im sure were stuck with what we have, i also doubt very much that the BRCA would uintroduce a system that made the AMb bug incomatable to all its members
MRT are looking to do a 'club PTX' to replace handout transponders.
Uses the same ID as a handout rather than the pt.
Sounds interesting as apparently it'll only be available to clubs!
Also, I don't understand the issue with the MRT pt's, as long as you're not in the same heat as someone with the same number as you it'll be fine.
You just get them to change to one of the other 10 or 20 numbers in the PT's memory until it doesn't clash - the same applies to the clones, you get the clone number plus the others.
as i under stand it those numbers are from trade ins that have not been cloned.
so the more thay trade in the more "random" 20 numbers the mrt bugs will be made with
as i have said i own 4 pt one amb 3 cloned id never sell them as singles should i pack up.
as bob says the owner of the AMb bug should allways have priority.
i also know MRT keep a file of all the owners of the numbers they clone, so should you have say my number you can call them and they would say the numbers owner is mark christopher.
there was talk when harry came out that AMB woulfd do clones but the lap counting will know its a clone due to the extra digit.
Also, I don't understand the issue with the MRT pt's, as long as you're not in the same heat as someone with the same number as you it'll be fine.
That' incorrect I'm afraid. The BBK system will only allow a single number to be registered to a single owner, so will always count laps for the registered keeper, even if he's not in that race.
bigred5765
12-09-2010, 10:28 AM
don't think thats right col i have two cloned Pt's and if we race 2wd and 4wd in the same day its doesn't count are laps twice,ive even lent one to someone else at the same time we were racing,
peetbee
12-09-2010, 01:40 PM
That' incorrect I'm afraid. The BBK system will only allow a single number to be registered to a single owner, so will always count laps for the registered keeper, even if he's not in that race.
blimey another feature of lapsfree that's better than bbk if that's true!
don't think thats right col i have two cloned Pt's and if we race 2wd and 4wd in the same day its doesn't count are laps twice,ive even lent one to someone else at the same time we were racing,
True, but that's because both PT's (with the same number) are registered to the same driver but in 2 classes. The problem is that you can't have the same number registered to 2 drivers (regardless of class). I can't explain the lending out bit - your race control must have some magik that I don't...
Smartalec
12-09-2010, 07:03 PM
Most clubs in our area have been running PT's only for some time now as all the handouts are beginning to fail and it's never been a problem. Any new members joining are told that to count laps they must buy a PT, either from the club or from the manufacturer, if they are new to the hobby they don't have to buy one, they just don't count laps until they do. This suits everyone because if they carry on the hobby then they know how much they have to spend on the PT, if they don't carry on then they just sell the stuff they've bought already.
A PT for around £60 is really not that expensive in the scheme of things seeing how much everything else costs. Nowadays you can get a second hand buggy for around £60 (B4), second hand decent speedo and motor for less than £100 and a decent brand new 2.4 radio set for £100, new digital servo for £50, £50 lipo and £20 charger ........... £440 and your up and running with top end gear. You could go RTR even cheaper if you didn't want top end stuff, what can you do these days for under £500? ........ and remember that all this stuff will last a couple of seasons at least no problem if looked after properly :thumbsup:
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