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View Full Version : WRCA Indoors Winter Series Dates 2010/11


peetbee
10-09-2010, 11:17 PM
Please see the new topic at http://www.oople.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57129

Belsten
10-09-2010, 11:34 PM
Just my 2 penneth worth, no mini pins sucks

peetbee
10-09-2010, 11:55 PM
Well, we've some time before the first round to fine tune some things....

axeman
11-09-2010, 06:12 AM
Just my 2 penneth worth, no mini pins sucks

don't worry dave... Reg and me will slow down for you, help you catch up:p

Belsten
11-09-2010, 06:25 AM
thanks Steve I need all the help I can get :thumbsup:

Why impose a no mini pin rule for all ? Why not just no mini pins at cobra as has been the case there for some time now ?

I just dont understand the logic of banning a tyre for an entire series because you cant run it at one venue ?
Before we know it there will be scrutineering, tranny compound and control tyres :thumbdown:

dorris
11-09-2010, 06:58 AM
Classes:
Tenth: 2wd, 4wd and Trucks/SC10's
Micros: 2wd & 4wd as per national classes (dependant on sufficient numbers ie: if only one or two 18th scale entries then they would run in with the 16th scale cars)Why no Touring Cars??? It seems to me that organisers go out of their way to cater for minority classes eg. two 4wd trucks, three or four SC10, 18th, 16th etc. etc. but touring cars don't even feature on the list even though there are a regular 25 - 30 touring cars run at COBRA almost every indoor meet they hold.... Why the discrimination...!!!???

Why impose a no mini pin rule for all ? Why not just no mini pins at cobra as has been the case there for some time now ?Why on earth would you want to run mini pins when 2wd cars running foams at COBRA are absolutely planted... the cars look like they are on rails with them.

....and one set of foams will last virtually the whole season when a set of yellow mini pins will barely last a full day. They are easy to make (one doughnut will make one front and one rear), cheap and give the very best grip you will find.

Belsten
11-09-2010, 07:06 AM
I reckon I would be quicker with my 2wd with minipins :yawn:

dorris
11-09-2010, 07:25 AM
Go watch them first!!!!

DCM
11-09-2010, 07:59 AM
Why is it when someone tries to formulate a series so people have somewhere to race through the winter/summer, people moan first rather than congratulate? Dave, it isn't like you don't have yellow mini-spikes in your bag, do you? So rather than having to buy different tyres for different venues, you can all run the same, and for those running on a budget, it also allows them to buy the Fastrax tyres and be competitive.

Andy, you really can't run a series indoors and run it correctly when you got to have a flat track and an off-road track. There will be touring car through the winter at COBRA, so you are catered for ;)

GRIFF55
11-09-2010, 08:32 AM
I agree on the mini pin thing. Why not just spikes at cobra? My reason for this would be that alot will have minipins ready or used from every other indoor series in the country.
Good work tho pete, an indoor welsh series would be good.

Belsten
11-09-2010, 08:54 AM
Steve im not whinging about not being able to run pins a cobra, its been that way for ages but why ban them from other venues that already use them ? People will have pins knocking around their boxes too

Its great to have a series but I just didnt understand the rationale thats all, surely it would have just been easier to say no pins at cobra and an open choice at the other venues :confused:

gnr racer
11-09-2010, 09:33 AM
Can I ask why only the 3 rounds (4 max with Hereford)
Just doesnt seem alot of events especially when what i would call winter indoor racing runs from beginning October to at least March.
6 months,maybe 6 events...one a month
Dont Saundersfoot have an indoor venue?

Pops
11-09-2010, 11:42 AM
Excellent news Pete! Last years round at Swansea was an awesome days racing:thumbsup:
Point one is.. I'm with Dave on the tyre issue..Spikes only at cobra. Spikes give lower grip and the fast guys will easily wear out a set per run on a full carpet track!! I've seen it!!
Point two the only reason foams work at cobra is because at club days the track is set out for touring cars, fast sweeping, 100% carpet which is saturated in additive...Foams only work there..At caldi you have no chance(I know foams are not being used in this series but had to clear that up)

As i already said, well done guys for organising this, Cant wait:thumbsup:

ant west 71
11-09-2010, 11:57 AM
great looking forward to this:), only 3 maybe 4 rounds:(. wheres talywain, saunderfoots and gnr. ok i relise they have not got a indoor venue, but they could nominate a indoor club to run thier round. all in all, if all the clubs run a round each it would be a bigger better indoor series. come on lets get it up to 6 or 7 rounds.:thumbsup:

Ian F
11-09-2010, 12:46 PM
Sorry guys it's a no go for saundersfoot, why don't each of the clubs hold 2 rounds each

Ian

dorris
11-09-2010, 01:21 PM
Andy, you really can't run a series indoors and run it correctly when you got to have a flat track and an off-road track. There will be touring car through the winter at COBRA, so you are catered forNot at regional level though.....

Belsten
11-09-2010, 01:30 PM
race off road then

DCM
11-09-2010, 02:26 PM
Not at regional level though.....

There ISN'T a regional level BRCA supported TC series ANYWHERE in the country, ffs.

If clubs put out a track that suits both off and on-road, then BOTH tracks are a compromise to each class and less 'fun'. As it is, it is only COBRA that really have a strong TC following.

dorris
11-09-2010, 02:48 PM
race off road then....and that is supposed to be an intelligent answer...!!!???

WRCA as an umbrella association should be catering for all classes. One club has more touring cars running than the whole region can get together for a 2wd regional event... yet the class doesn't even get the option.

As to not being able to run flat tracks and jumps together... not true! It is quite easy to lay tracks that challenge and cater for both providing they are planned. SDMCC has at least 6 pre-planned track layouts that fit on a 300 sq metre floor plan that cater for both and provide simple bypasses for major obstacles, which allows for the use of table-tops, wall rides, big doubles/trebles and elevated corners for the off-roaders AND a full flat track for TCs.

There are numerous posts about the finite number of racers in the region and that because this number is currently quite low, directly opposed classes (nitro and electric) are working together with various compromises to at least get some racing out there for all, yet there seems to be little consideration or compromise out there for flat verses jump.

Compromises that are little more than a bit of planning and forethought in track design and the lifting and replacing of a few small pops throughout the day.

DCM
11-09-2010, 02:53 PM
The WRCA REGION, is in fact a BRCA section which is there to formulate and collate results for the 1.10th OFF ROAD section of the BRCA, not TC, not 8th and not monkeys either. As it is, I think the WRCA does far more for trying to 'support' all racers. There is enough call this year for a regional winter series in off-road, in the past few years, the number of TC drivers willing to travel has declined to a point where NO regionals were held during the winter. TC numbers HAVE declined over the past 5 years.

You for one have complained that you have been alienated in your club as you want to run TC and have said on many occasions that there are only a few of you who now run them at Swansea.

dorris
11-09-2010, 02:55 PM
As it is, it is only COBRA that really have a strong TC followingThere are more out there than you give credit for.... other clubs have made it so difficult for tc clubmen to get a drive that they have either been forced to change class to race or have packed in completely.

Sadly once those drivers have gone the chances of getting them back are virtually nil.

Belsten
11-09-2010, 05:25 PM
I would like to reiterate what I said some time ago

Cock

Pops
11-09-2010, 05:35 PM
I would like to reiterate what I said some time ago

Cock
Next time your crossing the big bridge look in your mirror cos we'l be right behind you!:thumbsup: F##k this shit:thumbdown:

DCM
11-09-2010, 05:50 PM
Excellent news Pete! Last years round at Swansea was an awesome days racing:thumbsup:
Point one is.. I'm with Dave on the tyre issue..Spikes only at cobra. Spikes give lower grip and the fast guys will easily wear out a set per run on a full carpet track!! I've seen it!!
Point two the only reason foams work at cobra is because at club days the track is set out for touring cars, fast sweeping, 100% carpet which is saturated in additive...Foams only work there..At caldi you have no chance(I know foams are not being used in this series but had to clear that up)

As i already said, well done guys for organising this, Cant wait:thumbsup:

Dave, you are right, foams would only work on a fully carpet track, thats why at COBRA, it won't be all carpet if I get my way.

As for wear, fast guys in theory could blitz a set of minipins in a couple of runs, just the same as minispikes, but we don't have a 'cheap option' in pins, but we do have a Fastrax minge rippers to use to!

GRIFF55
11-09-2010, 05:57 PM
Pins have been used indoors since i came back racing (except cobra) and last alot longer than spikes anyday. They still work well even when nearly bald. Spikes last no time on carpet and as for fastrax tyres (good or not i dont know as i've never tried them), kind of defeats the object as we would still all have to buy them.:confused:
Open tyre choice an option? (apart from no pins at cobra)

axeman
11-09-2010, 06:14 PM
Ok then Mr DCM. can we put it to the vote like we did for the entry fees???

this would give everyone input on this subject:)

Pops
11-09-2010, 06:25 PM
Ok then Mr DCM. can we put it to the vote like we did for the entry fees???

this would give everyone input on this subject:)

My vote is open tyre choice(except cobra) I detest spikes on carpet and so does owen...

GRIFF55
11-09-2010, 06:28 PM
+1:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jamie.T
11-09-2010, 06:45 PM
+1 :):)

hywel
11-09-2010, 07:21 PM
well shall i now cancel the sponsorship and cheaper control tyres[mini spikes] and let you all pay a third more for tyres mmmmmm bit of a choice

DCM
11-09-2010, 07:25 PM
Ok then Mr DCM. can we put it to the vote like we did for the entry fees???

this would give everyone input on this subject:)

Would that be the same vote that made us probably the most expensive region to race in then, Steve?

Or are we talking of the decisions individual clubs made over the payment they took for their regionals?

Pops
11-09-2010, 07:27 PM
well shall i now cancel the sponsorship and cheaper control tyres[mini spikes] and let you all pay a third more for tyres mmmmmm bit of a choice

I cant drive spikes on carpet! (i struggle with any tyre!) Horrible drifty, understeer. Im a caldi boy and when i was a toddler Mr Harris fed me minipins on a spoon:p

Jamie.T
11-09-2010, 07:34 PM
well shall i now cancel the sponsorship and cheaper control tyres[mini spikes] and let you all pay a third more for tyres mmmmmm bit of a choice

Don't suppose the control tyres were fastrax mini-spikes, and sponsorship was from CML by any chance ??

I'd personally not like to have a control tyre like mini-spikes because no matter how cheap they are, they WONT last half as long as schu pins. So in fact I'd prefer to pay a third more.

markwilliamson2001
11-09-2010, 07:41 PM
+1 here, sorry. :bored:

Belsten
11-09-2010, 07:42 PM
Didnt realise there had been a deal done for a control tyre H, thought it was just a no minipin ruling or have I got the wrong end of the stick somehow ? If so, is it for the Fastrax tyres ? Is that a 1/3 off retail for them ? 4 a pair ? I dont have any nor have I tried them, just assumed if it was a rule for no mini pins I could use my existing used shumi mini spikes that I have in my box :confused:

DCM
11-09-2010, 07:52 PM
The idea was a control 'tread' as in mini-spike, so you would have the option of Schumacher or Fastrax, but the Fastrax would be a lot cheaper than the Schumacher.

GRIFF55
11-09-2010, 07:58 PM
Where is there any mention of a sponsorship on tyres in this thread?
Just looked through my boxes and i have loads of useable pins from last year still ready.
PLEASE, lets not kill a good thing by having a control tyre in a welsh indoor series.

DCM
11-09-2010, 08:04 PM
Andy, I could say, let me look, nope I don't have any minipins in my box of tyres, got plenty of spikes though.... so look, I am gonna have to go blow 20 before I even race.

Pops
11-09-2010, 08:07 PM
Where is there any mention of a sponsorship on tyres in this thread?
Just looked through my boxes and i have loads of useable pins from last year still ready.
PLEASE, lets not kill a good thing by having a control tyre in a welsh indoor series.

LEAST OF ALL A CONTROL "OUTDOOR" TYRE INDOOR:bored: Is this how russia used to be:woot:

Dyna
11-09-2010, 08:13 PM
First off, well done for getting a WRCA Winter Series up-and-running Pete - and anyone else who helped getting it in place :)

Frankly i dont care what tyres we use - im just glad we will have some Welsh indoor racing this season. As there are no Regional/National F-ranking points to gain or defend for the next year we should all look at this as - hopefully - the start of more and better quality racing series in the WRCA.

Although saying that, if a deal has/had been done for cheaper tyres by the looks of this thread it might have been better to announce that right at the start of the thread.... and confirm it ASAP if there is a deal in place before the tyre issue overshadows the series on the forums ?

As far as the Fastrax tyre goes ( if we do end up using them ) I used the new Fastrax minispike at Silverstone a couple of weeks back. And frankly they aint bad at all. It gripped very good in the dry, not nearly as bad as yellow spikes in the wet and lasted pretty damn well on astro over 2 days. And even its retail cost is less than Schumies eqv. Ok i havent used it indoors on carpet so dont know the wear or grip there but if we could all get a pair for 4 quid or so i wouldnt complain as you could replace them a little more frequently if needed ? And there are only 3 venues this winter after all ?

Whatever happens lets just enjoy the winter series in any form it comes in and build on it for 2011 :)

Pops
11-09-2010, 08:13 PM
Andy, I could say, let me look, nope I don't have any minipins in my box of tyres, got plenty of spikes though.... so look, I am gonna have to go blow 20 before I even race.

But steve that would be your choice..What if i look in my box and all i have is pins?? Same difference..except that my pins(and total preferance of tyre)cant be used...:confused:
To repeat my first reply... this series is fantastic news and myself and owen as always will attend every round..Good job:thumbsup:

hywel
11-09-2010, 08:16 PM
In your defence Mr Belston the deal was only discussed on wednesday and i wasnt going to say anything till i had spoken to your brother regarding the number of rounds so far agreed for the winter series Yes Mr thomas it was the fastrax mini spike at 5.00 a pair however as you feel there is an issue here then if everyone else agrees to use it perhaps we can allow you to turn on the rims along with messers williamson ans gooding [lol] But it would seem that , this and other decisions i have made this year doesnt seem to meet with some peoples approval So its open to debate in view of th eeconomic climate we are in and the fact that not every one has sponsorship and can get cheap tyres i thought this would be a good idea perhaps i was wrong and trying to promote the series and offer everyone an even playing field isnt what you drivers want

GRIFF55
11-09-2010, 08:19 PM
Agreed on the series. GREAT STUFF!!! It'll be great to get wales back into the offroad scene bigtime. Here's hoping the other clubs can/will come on board to make it a bigger series.
Nice Job Pete:thumbsup:

open tyre steve, would mean we could use anything we have (apart from at cobra as in previous indoor seasons)

I love the even playing field idea H.

Pops
11-09-2010, 08:24 PM
In your defence Mr Belston the deal was only discussed on wednesday and i wasnt going to say anything till i had spoken to your brother regarding the number of rounds so far agreed for the winter series Yes Mr thomas it was the fastrax mini spike at 5.00 a pair however as you feel there is an issue here then if everyone else agrees to use it perhaps we can allow you to turn on the rims along with messers williamson ans gooding [lol] But it would seem that , this and other decisions i have made this year doesnt seem to meet with some peoples approval So its open to debate in view of th eeconomic climate we are in and the fact that not every one has sponsorship and can get cheap tyres i thought this would be a good idea perhaps i was wrong and trying to promote the series and offer everyone an even playing field isnt what you drivers want


The original problem/argument was that drivers had to use an outdoor tyre indoors and no exception. As most drivers use indoor tyres indoor and as a result have better traction thus basing setup and driving on what they know.
Now it seems that it was not just a stupid idea it was about a control tyre. Two very different matters i think

DCM
11-09-2010, 08:34 PM
Maybe you guys should take over the running of the WRCA then? Cause to be honest, I really can't be arsed with it all any more, lets just hope you guys make it to the AGM then and make the electric presence at it....

Over and out.

Belsten
11-09-2010, 08:43 PM
Are mini spike carcuses cut and shut with pins allowed :confused: lol

Pops
11-09-2010, 08:50 PM
Maybe you guys should take over the running of the WRCA then? Cause to be honest, I really can't be arsed with it all any more, lets just hope you guys make it to the AGM then and make the electric presence at it....

Over and out.
Steve i have the utmost respect for your work within the wrca..This year has been awesome and a credit to all involved..As the initial thread stated that i have to buy 6 full sets of tyres(2 and 4 wd x2 for owen and 2x 2wd for me) of a compound and tread that i really dont want full stop. Just so our cars can wallow and understeer around a carpet track when i could purchase the correct tyres and enjoy our racing. thats a lot of money for the wrong tyres and that grieves me.
However, a control tyre(which i used at silverstone) and a level playingfield is a different matter....mainly because it has a purpose.

DCM
11-09-2010, 08:57 PM
I am in the same boat though, Dave, with the three possibly racing, I will still have to shod their cars in tyres, then my 2wd and 4wd, but I would spend more on minipins for myself over the meetings than I would on the Fastrax.

Pops
11-09-2010, 09:06 PM
I am in the same boat though, Dave, with the three possibly racing, I will still have to shod their cars in tyres, then my 2wd and 4wd, but I would spend more on minipins for myself over the meetings than I would on the Fastrax.
A control tyre is a totally different matter as far as im concerned. Control the tyre and not the driver!;)
IMO..Its either one tyre for all or any tyre.:)

hywel
11-09-2010, 09:13 PM
:eh?::eh?::eh?::eh?::eh?::eh?::eh?:

Pops
11-09-2010, 09:22 PM
Only in wales:woot:

DCM
11-09-2010, 09:23 PM
I still have no idea what your on about Dave, lol...... are you saying your up for a control tyre?

Pops
11-09-2010, 09:30 PM
I still have no idea what your on about Dave, lol...... are you saying your up for a control tyre?

Yes... A control tyre has a purpose....Even playing field. Economical..
To tell me i can use any thing but the correct indoor tyre is madness and makes no sense at all.
Capish:woot:

hywel
11-09-2010, 10:17 PM
funny thing is Dave Schumacher list the minipin as an offroad tyre on their website we have used both mini pins and mini spikes in the WRCA for many years so who,s to say which is correct the cars we use are designed to work off road and outdoors yet we run them on carpet wooden floors etc so compromises have to be made so the idea of "control tyre" was it would equally advantage or disadvantage everyone the same at a reduced cost plus the publicity on the cml website etc

Pops
11-09-2010, 10:36 PM
funny thing is Dave Schumacher list the minipin as an offroad tyre on their website we have used both mini pins and mini spikes in the WRCA for many years so who,s to say which is correct the cars we use are designed to work off road and outdoors yet we run them on carpet wooden floors etc so compromises have to be made so the idea of "control tyre" was it would equally advantage or disadvantage everyone the same at a reduced cost plus the publicity on the cml website etc

Yes but irrelevant to my point, which has become lost within all this... ORIGINAL POST>>>NO MINIPINS>> No mention of control tyre.. All Myself and Owen have ever run on carpet is minipins(except cobra) and in my opinion are the only tyre for carpet(especially 2wd)
As it turns out the facts have changed to "control tyre!" which is a different matter...Which as i have already said i think is a good idea as its fair on the drivers and pocket.
But as originally posted No minipins but any spikes are ok just made no sense and as minipins would be my(and many others) first and last chioice for carpet it made no sense.
Hope that clears that up..
So..will i be the only driver on rims or can i still buy some fasties!!:p

peetbee
11-09-2010, 11:53 PM
Golly gosh. Ok then...

Only 3 rounds - unfortunately we only have 3 indoor tracks in wales. Everyone run 2 rounds each? In an ideal world yes, but with 2 of the 3 clubs running micro nationals too this winter then it could be tricky (not ruling it out mind)

No Touring Cars - Not requested as a possible class, so wasn't added, sorry.

As I said originally, first time I've tried organising something like this, was keen to get the dates out there to get people interested. I'm sorry it's not to everyone's liking :cry:

markwilliamson2001
12-09-2010, 10:42 AM
I would be happy with an open tyre rule for all events, and the exception of cobra for no pins...

In the end, most will run pins over spikes anyhow, and they do grip and last longer than spikes, but people can run spikes if they wish...

How about a handout tyre for those at cobra of the fastrax spikes as a compromise? Then i can turn up on the day glue some up and race? If its the last in the series then i will use the pins up in the first few meetings anyway, so will boil the tyres off ready for the last round.

How about this?

Mark

peetbee
15-09-2010, 09:49 AM
A quick updated. The Cobra round on 23rd January is in the process of being rescheduled as the original date clashed with the re-arranged BRCA winter indoors championship at Hereford.

In my defence, the BRCA news section wasn't updated with the new date when I was checking for clashes (it was originally the week after).

As soon as I have confirmed dates I will update the first post.

Aside from the date, there are still some details I am trying to iron out and will wait until they are complete before updating everyone.
Thanks

silky
24-09-2010, 10:04 AM
Hi Pete, Not sure if you are aware as i havent read the whole thread, but the Caldicot round on the 19th Dec clashes with Round 6 of the COBRA Indoor series?

peetbee
24-09-2010, 10:12 AM
Thanks Ben, I believe that it's a provisional date on their website. You need to check with them for details.

Can advise that the date for the Cobra round has been confirmed as 20th February.

mrspeedy
13-10-2010, 06:55 PM
I'd quite like to do this series, sounds like a lot of fun.....

Do we any updates on the "control tyre" rule yet ? and if so has anyone actually tried the Fastrax tyres indoors on carpet ? and what happens if you run a micro or a SC10 ?

ta

gnr racer
13-10-2010, 06:59 PM
If you meen the Fastrax mini spike tyre 'aparantly' very poor longevity used on carpet
Im sure the short course trucks & micro's will be included in the series
EDIT- Yes they are included..i just read the 1st post on this thread :blush:

Belsten
13-10-2010, 07:00 PM
Ive got a set to try on carpet

axeman
14-10-2010, 05:16 PM
don't bother unless you like going in circles

peetbee
14-10-2010, 06:43 PM
Tidied up the first post with the details of the series.

Please bear in mind that I am not an official of the WRCA
It's only a small series due to the lack of indoor venues so trying to please everyone isn't going to happen, but alienating any racers wasn't on my agenda!

Please note that it is possible that the WRCA committee could update the rules, but as far as I know the details in the first post on this topic is what we will be running from November!

Good luck everyone and hope you enjoy the racing.

Jamie.T
14-10-2010, 07:15 PM
What happened to the Hereford round? Thats the one i was looking forward to the most :(

peetbee
14-10-2010, 10:39 PM
They weren't able to hold a round this year :cry:

I think holding a micro national and the BRCA indoor meeting this winter means that they are competitioned out.

Still, maybe next year!

gnr racer
15-10-2010, 07:47 AM
Surely we could have had more than 3 rounds
Anyways,should be good fun

peetbee
15-10-2010, 08:26 AM
Surely we could have had more than 3 rounds
If you can find more venues then I'm sure we can have more rounds!

Anyways,should be good fun
I hope so!!!

Jamie.T
15-10-2010, 08:42 AM
Could the clubs possibly hold 2 rounds instead of 1. Maybe make it a best 4 out of 6 with each club having 2 rounds.

peetbee
15-10-2010, 10:24 AM
We did try to add more rounds, but I think with other committments the clubs have this winter it wasn't possible to fit them in.

If this year's series is succesful then perhaps next year's can be organised far enough in advance to avoid date clashes and get at least 5 rounds in.