Retro RC10 Build

[ApexSpeed]

I have been collecting parts in a box for years--ever since I first saw the German "Siebenelch" photos--and I figured it was about time I started to try to put these parts together. I still needed a few parts here and there, but about a month ago, I dug out the box o' parts and started working.

It's a pretty straight-forward build, using a standard used A chassis, late model RC10 basic parts, a worked-over Stealth using ceramic bearings throughout with a B4 top shaft and slipper assembly. The sprung weight includes mostly B4 chassis parts including hubs, front axles, spindle carriers, spindles and bearings. Linkage is all Lunsford Punisher with Losi HD low profile ball cups. Rear axles are B44 CVDs for a direct fit in the Stealth out-drives. Carbon fiber items are all .080" Atlas Worlds car replicas, and though I would really like them to be at least a 3mm multi-directional weave, they are pretty nice pieces. Shocks are Kyosho Velvets in 30/38mm typical 2wd buggy lengths, using internal limiters in the rear. Steering is an original Team Losi/RPS unit, with a custom stand-off to raise the bellcrank mount up for better steering linkage angle.

Wheels are straight from a B4, and right off the shelf at the local hobby shop. Tires are mock ups for now, while I await the Jconcepts Bar Codes front and rear. Electronics in the car are a Futaba s9550 shortie servo that I use in a lot of my race applications, and a Speed Passion 10.5t brushless geared 72/30 using the new B4.1 "brushless" spur gear. Battery is my old faithful original Orion 4800 LiPo.

Still to come, eventually, are a Tekin RS speedo, Spektrum 3-channel micro receiver and a PT to round out the electronics. Body and body mount system are still in progress, and a 6" Associated flat wing on Kyosho RB5 wing mounts sit waiting to be installed.

Like I said, pretty simple, straight-forward build for the most part. No plans to chop down the sides like everyone else seems to be so intent on doing, but maybe some other old school machining to come. Definitely plans for some custom anodizing touches when everything is where it should be, though.

Gonna take better photos outside later, but for now, you get the indoor shop floor shots...


http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_001.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_002.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_003.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_004.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_005.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_006.jpg





Enjoy!

[ApexSpeed]

Here's the current update on the progress of this car...

Late last week, someone who had seen my Kyosho RB5 SP2 somewhere on teh internets fell in love with the car and offered me an obscene amount of cash for it, without the servo, PT and receiver, but including the ESC and motor. I had the car all ready to race this winter at a new local indoor track being built at this very moment, and I really didn't want to sell it. Though, money talks and new cars can always be bought again down the line if I decide I want another. I needed the cash for new decal production, so I sold it as fast as I could pack it up.

So now I am left with a couple of really rare European B4 conversions that I don't really want to race, and my retro RC10 old-new project that I had planned to race, but wasn't taking tremendously seriously before. I decided that this will be my main focus this winter, and if I need to, I can always build another B4 out of spare parts.

Now this car gets some serious attention paid to it, because it will be the priority car on track for me when I get a chance to race this winter.

First, the body. I had planned to either use a re-pop Mirage body or a stock Protech, but after trimming the Protech, I wasn't happy with the way it looked on the car (it'll soon have a quickie retro paint scheme shot on it and offered here on the forums cheap). I decided against the Mirage for various reasons, so I was left to solve the body problem again. I decided to see how bad of shape the old Proline Class 1 buggy body was that I got a long time ago from Jay (mr lexan). It was trimmed out previously by someone that Jay got it from, and not very well. Hacked up is a better term. Bodies should not be trimmed with scissors, forks, nail clippers or pruning sheers—ever. Don't drink and trim bodies, kids, you could lose an eye.

So I trimmed the body to fit the RC10 as we used to run them, and tried to remove as much of the problem areas as I could. Excess mounting and antenna holes made it complicated, but I did get it mounted in a pretty clean way. Using old school short TRC on road posts, I drilled a new hole in the left front pan for the nose mount, and in the rear I devised a horizontal plane mount for a second TRC post using another old school JG Kydex rear body mount that was originally intended to be up at the top of the shock tower. It works, looks good and is a pretty clean install, all things considered. I love the look of this body on an RC10, which is one of the reasons why I'd like to get reproductions made of a proper full new shell. We'll see how that goes. ;)

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_014.jpg

The wing used on the car is a Losi XXX CR wing I had lying around the shop. I will probably use a standard straight Losi XX4we wing, as I think it looks a little better on the old car. The mounting struts for the wing are from the Kyosho RB5 and required 4 holes to be drilled in the Atlas rear shocktower. I already think these shocktowers are way too thin as it is (.080" and flexible), so I wasn't crazy about making it weaker, but we'll see how it works. I'm contemplating getting another rear and doubling them up for more strength, or maybe having Dynotech cut some towers from 3mm quasi carbon weave, but for now, this will have to do. There are also washers under the bottom mount screws to give the wing a bit of rake. It's a little high for my tastes, but the shocktower didn't give me many options. It still looks old school for this car, so I'm good with it where it is. I'll put options in another shocktower if I have them made.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_017.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_018.jpg

Up front on the car, is the new body post and the addition of the personal transponder out of my former RB5. There is also the addition of a Spektrum 3500 micro 3-channel receiver and an antenna post. You don't really need an antenna in a car these days with 3.6" antennas, but I like the look of the stubby little mast sticking out of the buggy.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_015.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_016.jpg

I have a few things still to change and add to the car, including the battery mount system. I have a different plan than what is in the car currently, and it should be pretty simple and clean, and allow for different size packs with relative ease. I also need to clean up the steering linkage somehow, as I still have a bind in the interior ball ends on full compression and full lock. I am using low profile ball ends and low profile ball links on the interior links, but it's not enough. Might have to seek out some different linkage, or maybe even draw up new bellcranks with a shorter reach to give me more room to use a thicker front shock tower down the road.

Also, the rear of the tub needs to be drilled for the Stealth, as it is currently only held in by the motor plate, back of the tub mounting points, and the tranny brace up top. It's actually a pretty stout mount, but it needs to be bolted to the chassis. A "B" chassis would make my life easier, but I haven't had the spare change to go find another chassis.

Looking for a small front bumper still, and it needs a new ESC, proper tires, paint, decals and a few other minor things, but it's getting close to being race-ready finally.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_019.jpg

[Welshy40]

Nice work. You should post on the rc10talk site as well.

[brian s]

very very nice, where did you get the carbon fibre shock towers?.

[Welshy40]

Those I know you can buy from fibre lyte.

[Gayo]

Wow, so nice! I also have a RC10CE runner, funny thing is its diff is better than those of my current racing cars. :blush:

Isn't your car too narrow with B4 wheels? The offset was different front and rear on the pre-B4 AE cars.

Can't wait to see the body painted :thumbsup:

[ApexSpeed]

Thanks guys, it has been a rolling thread at RC10talk.com for a while now. The shock towers are made here in the US and have been sold on eBay and through RC10talk.com by "Atlas." He's producing exact replicas of the Worlds car parts for people who want to use longer, contemporary shocks on RC10s. They are nice pieces, but I'd prefer to see them made a little thicker for my tastes.

[ApexSpeed]

Isn't your car too narrow with B4 wheels? The offset was different front and rear on the pre-B4 AE cars.

"Too narrow" I guess is a relative term. It's somewhere between a box stock RC10 as it ran originally and a contemporary B4. I'm not trying to build a B4, so the width isn't that important to what I'm trying to accomplish. The rear track is very close to an original RC10, when you include the B4 wheel/offset.

Measured from the face of the drive pin wheel mounting area without wheels on, then measured from the center of the axle line with wheels installed, to remove rear toe-in from the measurement:



Stock RC10: 7.375" rear track width (9.000" with jellybean wheels/tires installed)



Modified RC10 with B4/B44 outer drivetrain: 8.000" rear track width (9.250" with B4 wheels/tires installed)



Stock B4: 8.313" rear track width (9.750" with b4 wheels/tires installed)

[DerbyDan]

That looks super nice - love the attention to detail (c/sunk washers, body mounting etc etc)

Will be interesting to hear how you get on racing it.... i've been racing my Worlds car this year with similar spec (though i'm running standard length shocks), with some ok results. I think you'll be pleasantly suprised how well your car fares amongst the new machinery, especially if you are running on a fairly loose/forgiving surface.

[SHY]

Awesome work!!! :wub

[Gayo]

"Too narrow" I guess is a relative term. It's somewhere between a box stock RC10 as it ran originally and a contemporary B4. I'm not trying to build a B4, so the width isn't that important to what I'm trying to accomplish. The rear track is very close to an original RC10, when you include the B4 wheel/offset.



Thanks for explaining that. Good to know how to use modern tyres with off-the-shelf parts.
:thumbsup:

[ApexSpeed]

BTW, I have most of the part numbers for everything to convert an original RC10 to use B4 wheels and contemporary tires, if anyone is interested. Basically, you use B4 front caster blocks and steering knuckles/axles for the front wheels, then B4 or B44 rear hubs and B44 CVDs on the rear to use B4 rear wheels.

The only modifications necessary are reaming out the outer hinge pin holes in the front caster blocks and rear hubs to .125-.126" in order to use the RC10 hinge pins for everything that connects to old RC10 suspension components.

I know some people have used aluminum aftermarket rear hubs to generate more rear toe in, but I have not personally attempted that yet, so I can't comment on the fit.

[tarotrex]

Here's the current update on the progress of this car...

Late last week, someone who had seen my Kyosho RB5 SP2 somewhere on teh internets fell in love with the car and offered me an obscene amount of cash for it, without the servo, PT and receiver, but including the ESC and motor. I had the car all ready to race this winter at a new local indoor track being built at this very moment, and I really didn't want to sell it. Though, money talks and new cars can always be bought again down the line if I decide I want another. I needed the cash for new decal production, so I sold it as fast as I could pack it up.

So now I am left with a couple of really rare European B4 conversions that I don't really want to race, and my retro RC10 old-new project that I had planned to race, but wasn't taking tremendously seriously before. I decided that this will be my main focus this winter, and if I need to, I can always build another B4 out of spare parts.

Now this car gets some serious attention paid to it, because it will be the priority car on track for me when I get a chance to race this winter.

First, the body. I had planned to either use a re-pop Mirage body or a stock Protech, but after trimming the Protech, I wasn't happy with the way it looked on the car (it'll soon have a quickie retro paint scheme shot on it and offered here on the forums cheap). I decided against the Mirage for various reasons, so I was left to solve the body problem again. I decided to see how bad of shape the old Proline Class 1 buggy body was that I got a long time ago from Jay (mr lexan). It was trimmed out previously by someone that Jay got it from, and not very well. Hacked up is a better term. Bodies should not be trimmed with scissors, forks, nail clippers or pruning sheers—ever. Don't drink and trim bodies, kids, you could lose an eye.

So I trimmed the body to fit the RC10 as we used to run them, and tried to remove as much of the problem areas as I could. Excess mounting and antenna holes made it complicated, but I did get it mounted in a pretty clean way. Using old school short TRC on road posts, I drilled a new hole in the left front pan for the nose mount, and in the rear I devised a horizontal plane mount for a second TRC post using another old school JG Kydex rear body mount that was originally intended to be up at the top of the shock tower. It works, looks good and is a pretty clean install, all things considered. I love the look of this body on an RC10, which is one of the reasons why I'd like to get reproductions made of a proper full new shell. We'll see how that goes. ;)

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_014.jpg

The wing used on the car is a Losi XXX CR wing I had lying around the shop. I will probably use a standard straight Losi XX4we wing, as I think it looks a little better on the old car. The mounting struts for the wing are from the Kyosho RB5 and required 4 holes to be drilled in the Atlas rear shocktower. I already think these shocktowers are way too thin as it is (.080" and flexible), so I wasn't crazy about making it weaker, but we'll see how it works. I'm contemplating getting another rear and doubling them up for more strength, or maybe having Dynotech cut some towers from 3mm quasi carbon weave, but for now, this will have to do. There are also washers under the bottom mount screws to give the wing a bit of rake. It's a little high for my tastes, but the shocktower didn't give me many options. It still looks old school for this car, so I'm good with it where it is. I'll put options in another shocktower if I have them made.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_017.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_018.jpg

Up front on the car, is the new body post and the addition of the personal transponder out of my former RB5. There is also the addition of a Spektrum 3500 micro 3-channel receiver and an antenna post. You don't really need an antenna in a car these days with 3.6" antennas, but I like the look of the stubby little mast sticking out of the buggy.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_015.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_016.jpg

I have a few things still to change and add to the car, including the battery mount system. I have a different plan than what is in the car currently, and it should be pretty simple and clean, and allow for different size packs with relative ease. I also need to clean up the steering linkage somehow, as I still have a bind in the interior ball ends on full compression and full lock. I am using low profile ball ends and low profile ball links on the interior links, but it's not enough. Might have to seek out some different linkage, or maybe even draw up new bellcranks with a shorter reach to give me more room to use a thicker front shock tower down the road.

Also, the rear of the tub needs to be drilled for the Stealth, as it is currently only held in by the motor plate, back of the tub mounting points, and the tranny brace up top. It's actually a pretty stout mount, but it needs to be bolted to the chassis. A "B" chassis would make my life easier, but I haven't had the spare change to go find another chassis.

Looking for a small front bumper still, and it needs a new ESC, proper tires, paint, decals and a few other minor things, but it's getting close to being race-ready finally.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_019.jpg
To Apex Speed, Pls keep posting n Your project aboslutly stimulate for those in old school rebuilding their Gold pan! At least I am triggered!
Great gob!:p

[SHY]

Totally agree! I also have an RC10 gold pan that I'd love to turn in to a modernized runner!

Keep going! :wub

[Spoolio]

Bigbison on here had FibreLyte make up some towers to run Losi XXX-CR shocks on his 6-gear goldtub '10. They were quality and plenty thick enough (well, they never broke put it that way).

[Northy]

I should post some pics up of my black tub runner :lol:

Went ace with a Nosram 6.5 in and lipo, finished 3rd at York indoor regional :D

G

[tsan]

Apex, Dynamite write up! A gold tub RC10 wasn't even on my vintage wish list, but after reading this it's now somewhere in the top 3.

I love the mix of old and new... shocks, wing mount etc. Great photos, too.

Top drawer.:thumbsup:

[ApexSpeed]

Thanks guys, much appreciated. :thumbsup:

I think the RC10 at a ripe old age of 26 has a lot to still offer. Over the lifespan of this kit, it did receive more than a few usable upgrades from the original offering—wide front arms, Stealth tranny, solid steering bellcranks, larger wheels and tires, better shocks, etc. But I still felt that there was room to continue improving the car, as well as keeping a lot of the old still intact.

I think the major items are the wheel/tire upgrades. There are guys running these cars in vintage with Worlds and B2 style wheels, but they are getting really hard to find and stupid expensive when you do. I wanted to be able to use the same wheels from my other B4-based cars, and have the same options as contemporary cars for tires.

Fortunately, the B4 pieces fit on the car nicely using original RC10 suspension arms, and the saving grace is the B44 rear CVDs. They are exactly what we need for the conversion, and really save a lot of potential headaches.

Yes, the car is infinitely more simple and less adjustable that current cars on the market, and yes, it's not as sexy as a new 201x or Cougar SV, but the base of this project was $45 from eBay, combined with only a very few truly "vintage" parts. I think with Kyosho shocks, Jconcepts tires, B4/B44 hubs and axles, plus LiPo and brushless power, it can be a formidable car on the club level week-in, week-out.

Either way, it's going to be fun making it work.




Next up is paint later this week, and a new battery retention setup. :)

[liam]

I raced my pink-pan team for the first time last week

Was really impressed with the amount of steering it had even from stock

[Stretch]

Speaking from Old School experience, under no circumstance cut the sides off if this to be a runner. The chassis will emulate a banana after just a couple of meetings with big jumps. Machining may look good, but the weight saving is miniscule. Modern batteries and electronics make it unnecessary from a performance point of view too (back in the day, a good matched 1200mA battery could just about keep an RC10 at full speed for 5 minutes with a 'hot' 15 double motor...).

[ApexSpeed]

Having lived through it all myself, I do realize no one cut the sides off on the old school cars, but there were guys like Cliff Lett who did trim them down somewhat, and even machined slots in the sidepods.

Today, people are cutting them down about 50% and keeping the structural integrity intact, as well as allowing bodies to be lowered considerably on the car. It gives the car a very distinctive look, but it's not really what I'm after with this car.


doug

[Gayo]

the car is not as sexy as a new 201x or Cougar SV

Man, are you crazy???:wtf::wtf::woot:

Anything sexier than this RC10 has to be wearing a bikini :D

[ApexSpeed]

Man, are you crazy???:wtf::wtf::woot:

Anything sexier than this RC10 has to be wearing a bikini :D


:lol:

I guess it all depends on your point of view. Blonde or brunette, you have to decide for yourself. :D

[ApexSpeed]

Ok, new wing finally came in (Losi XX4 Maxi straight), so I decided that the masking had been on the body long enough and I shot my colors on it. Going along with the idea that this car is built today as I would have done it in 1988 if I actually knew what I was doing, I gave the car my new school look with an old school body. Turned out pretty cool... I still love the look of this body.

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_038.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_032.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_034.jpg

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/old-newRC10/old-newRC10_031.jpg

[GRIFF55]

VERY NICE!!! loving the wheel sticker touch too!

[ApexSpeed]

VERY NICE!!! loving the wheel sticker touch too!

Thanks. Those are cut vinyl, but I'm thinking of putting them into actual decal production in white and black as "TEAM ASSOCIATED -- FACTORY TEAM"

Might be something that shows up for sale on the squarehead.design website sooner or later. ;)

[GRIFF55]

how about associated/reedy ones like they used to do? I loved them!!

[ApexSpeed]

how about associated/reedy ones like they used to do? I loved them!!

Too narrow of a market. ;) No one I know uses Reedy stuff anymore. :D

[Martin Wallace]

bloody stunning, well done

[olefiloux]

Fantastique job Doug... Your car is a Must!!!:woot:

[Nick Goodall]

Car looks stunning, but there's something not quite right about that Body in my eyes.... What shell is it??

I think an original shell would definitely look better... but apart from that it's amazing!!! Great job!!

[tarotrex]

Thumps up!:thumbsup:

[ApexSpeed]

Car looks stunning, but there's something not quite right about that Body in my eyes.... What shell is it??

I think an original shell would definitely look better... but apart from that it's amazing!!! Great job!!

It's a Pro-line Class 1 single seat buggy that was an original body for the RC10 and Ultima in the mid to late 80s. It was used by a LOT of people back then, including myself and my brother, and still is a favorite of mine. They are virtually impossible to find, and this one was seriously hacked up but unpainted when I found it.

I actually had trimmed a stock Protech out and mounted it up but I still really don't like the way they look on tub chassis cars (the side pods flex up slightly).

This was the exact look I wanted—old meets new—in many ways. If I could figure out how to get the wing about 4-5mm lower, I'd be thrilled. :)

One of the "pro" cars from back in the day...

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/rc10_cardinal/burnette001.jpg

[Nick Goodall]

It's a Pro-line Class 1 single seat buggy that was an original body for the RC10 and Ultima in the mid to late 80s. It was used by a LOT of people back then, including myself and my brother, and still is a favorite of mine. They are virtually impossible to find, and this one was seriously hacked up but unpainted when I found it.

I actually had trimmed a stock Protech out and mounted it up but I still really don't like the way they look on tub chassis cars (the side pods flex up slightly).

This was the exact look I wanted—old meets new—in many ways. If I could figure out how to get the wing about 4-5mm lower, I'd be thrilled. :)

One of the "pro" cars from back in the day...

http://www.apexspeed.com/doug/rc/vintage/rc10_cardinal/burnette001.jpg

I can understand why you want it like that, and it does still look incredible!!! I just love the old RC10 Worlds look:

http://valkyriercmotorsports.com/Pic265.JPG

[isobarik]

why he B4 rims ??? doesent they make the buggy a little bit to narrow in the rear ??????

mvh isobarik

[ApexSpeed]

why he B4 rims ??? doesent they make the buggy a little bit to narrow in the rear?

Narrow, compared to what? A B4? Yes, but proportionally front and rear (about 12mm narrow all the way around). Compared to an RC10? No, about 4mm wider front and rear.

B4 wheels because what else are you going to use to get contemporary tires on the car? B2 or B3? Worlds 3-piece? Good luck finding them. I wanted easy to find tires and wheels, and things that I had in the shop already.

The track width is not an issue, as it is proportional front and rear to not only the RC10 but the current B4.

[tony6187]

quick question?when using b4 caster blocks on an rc10 is it true you have to add 5deg to the caster block eg 25 deg caster block+5 deg for the extra front kickup on the rc10= 30deg or is it the other way round?

[ApexSpeed]

quick question?when using b4 caster blocks on an rc10 is it true you have to add 5deg to the caster block eg 25 deg caster block+5 deg for the extra front kickup on the rc10= 30deg or is it the other way round?

You are correct. I have 30° blocks in there right now for a total of 35°, but have the 20° and 25° blocks on standby to use should these prove to be too much.

[tony6187]

You are correct. I have 30° blocks in there right now for a total of 35°, but have the 20° and 25° blocks on standby to use should these prove to be too much.
thanks for the quick reply:thumbsup:

[slowjun]

I will surely miss this car, good buy on the new owner, if i only have the money the time it was posted, then i will surely get this one. truly a treasure.

[kaszal]

I don't know much about the RC10 but that is a thing of beauty, Apex Speed. Really nice build.