Scottish 1/10th offroad AGM

[Racing Snake]

Guys,

a date was decided on for the AGM a while ago but i'm unsure if it got out to the people it needed to so this is the official word.

date of AGM : 21/11/10
Location : Bowhouse Community Center, Grangemouth (http://www.falkirkrcc.co.uk/venue.php)
Start time : 10am

If this is un-suitable for anyone then please let me know & will re-schedule.

Also if you have any proposals then please post them in the proposals thread, preferably sensible ones :)

Thanks
John Allan
BRCA Rep. Scotland

[raymondkerr]

Sounds good John, I assume we'll be racing afterwards ? :D

[msxmre]

I'll be there John, thanks for the heads up m8.
Scotty....:p

[orinoco]

I'll be there.

[orinoco]

Deleted

[Mr Eccleston]

Any feedback from Stonehaven, might be a bit early for them.

Secondly, how are we going to decide who can vote etc as the series until now has been run by the host clubs. We are effectively starting from scratch.

[Mr Eccleston]

Another thought, can we have an electronic copy of the BRCA rules and dates prior to the AGM, pretty pointless to have a meeting if we don't know the BRCA rules and the dates to avoid.

[Donutt]

Firstly, who votes. As exiting administrator of the Series, and after consultation with the BRCA Rep (John), we think it's fair that anyone who participated at a SORC 2010 event, has a right to vote. If anyone disagrees, I'd expect them to do so in writing (email is preferrerd, PM is fine) to myself and/or John, your BRCA rep. If there are many objections (more than 20% of attendees), then this championship should be dissolved and a new one should be organised by someone else.

It's also fair to say that the only site that offered ALL the information on the SORC was this section in Oople. The notification of the AGM only needs to be here. I see no reason to waste private money and time sending out emails or written invitations. Everyone who attended the meetings found out directly or indirectly from this forum, so the AGM notification can follow the same process.

Now, I think trying to get the calendar done at the AGM is too much.
We should leave that to the Championship Team (CC/CT) to sort out after the AGM. They need the info from BRCA and also need to choose which clubs will get a round, after careful and full consideration. So it would be nigh impossible to try and get that done at the AGM. IMHO.

First thing we should be deciding is how the Championship is managed, by committee or by a Team (I prefer Team - see my proposal).

Secondly, the AGM should be deciding on the basics;

MAXIMUM number of rounds,
number of counting rounds ( based on percentage, minimum, etc),
subset of rules not in BRCA that we want to apply, or do we leave that to the CC/CT?,
trophies, financials, how is that done?
other proposals


For every proposal after "how the Championship is managed", we should firstly vote if it is with the AGM, or with the CC/CT to make decisions. That way, we can get through everything and we have agreement that the proper democratic process is observed.

Not everything has to be decided at the AGM - but we have to decide how everything is managed.

If we try and do everything in a couple of hours, then mistakes will be made, decisions will be made without enough info, and it'll be no better than a chimps tea-party (see other RC clubs/organisations for examples...)

Apologies if this reads as brutal - not my intention, but the AGM is there to ensure a smooth transfer of management. I don't think we need to transfer the entire management process, to a body of people including everyone and their dog. It's far more important to debate and decide who is best placed, in terms of availability and experience, to look after the championship, and decide what powers we give them. Then we leave them to get on with it as effectively as possible without interruption.

If we don't like what they do in 2011, we come back next November and vote in a new CC/CT. It can't be simpler. And of course, you could adopt the power of the EGM and the Vote of No Confidence (another proposal).

[Racing Snake]

I understand the thought about not having a meeting until the BRCA 1/10th offroad have sorted their dates but the idea of the AGM is to get the major issues sorted/agreed on ie



Championship format
which clubs wish to hold a round
race fees
committee (if needed)
scrutineering
marshalling
tyres
electric board ie batteries etc


The reason I say this is because the dates tend not to be released from the BRCA 1/10th offroad till late January from what i remember & I'd like to get the better part of things sorted asap. The dates will be sorted/agreed with the clubs there after & then conveyed to the racers etc

Hope this makes sense
John

[Racing Snake]

Sorry for the late notice or any problems this may cause but I'm going to have to put the AGM back to a later date so that I can get time to read through all the proposals etc.

I shall let you all know ASAP what the new date will be

[Disley]

I think common-sense should prevail. :) You can over complicate the simple and remove the enjoyment of competition.

Having said that I think there should be a control tyre. One make/one style/one compound. It might be different for different locations, but it would reduce costs and create a level playing field.

Also, given the rising cost of racing and the decresasing value of my wage, I question the need to have BRCA approved batteries etc. The costs might put people off racing. Surely, it's better to have full races, and frankly does it really make a difference?

Martyn and Tom.

[Racing Snake]

Well that is a point for discussion at the AGM.

[Mr Eccleston]

I think common-sense should prevail. :) You can over complicate the simple and remove the enjoyment of competition.

Having said that I think there should be a control tyre. One make/one style/one compound. It might be different for different locations, but it would reduce costs and create a level playing field.

Also, given the rising cost of racing and the decresasing value of my wage, I question the need to have BRCA approved batteries etc. The costs might put people off racing. Surely, it's better to have full races, and frankly does it really make a difference?

Martyn and Tom.

Reducing the style compound won't reduce cost, but agree it will create a level playing field.The reason it doesn't reduce cost is because until you limit the number of tyres per day there is no cost saving.If someone chooses to use one set of the "control tyre" per race at £10 a go,that would be £60 for 4 heats and 2 finals. If you have no control tyre and same driver chose to use 6 different tyres on a day,againat £10 it's the same cost. I would say it is very hard to limit the number of tyres per day, and probably harder to control compound as the coloured indicator always wears off the tyre.

Perhaps something to consider is limiting the tyres as per the BRCA this year, typically it was Schumacher minispikes in either yellow or green depending on weather. With tyre doing a few meetings it did not have to be costly.

Valid discussion re cells,strictly speaking they only have to be as per the EB for Nationals, and we are a Regional. The only thing to consider is that at least you know the cells on the EB list have been tested against spec. Totally agree we should be encouraging as many people to race as possible.

[Disley]

Re: cells, just to illustrate my point.

I bought a 5200mAh/ 40C cell from Hong Kong for £30, including post in January. The price has risen recently to about £50. In the UK, BRCA approved cells of the same size are about £100. I fail to see why I should pay double.

Further, as I'm never going to win the Scottish Championship, but am there for the enjoyment and camaraderie (oh...and to beat Thomas and Jim:p) is this cost be justified? I think not.

Comments please.

Martyn and Thomas

[Donutt]

Valid discussion re cells,strictly speaking they only have to be as per the EB for Nationals, and we are a Regional.

Don't think the above is correct Derek. Just trawled through the 1:10 Electric Off-Road rules for 2010.

Rule 2.2 says that
"Regional events should be run to the same format (National rules), but are allowed to use variations of the following rules:"
then it lists a bunch of rules that can be "tweaked".

However none of them allow moving away from EB regs. I think it needs to be considered that if we break away from the EB for batteries, then we might risk losing Regional status.

It doesn't matter to me as I'll never race at another BRCA National event again, but there are a lot of drivers who want to run the Scottish as a Regional Series so I think you maybe want to have a look at this yourself and see if I've read it correctly.

[Donutt]

Re: cells, just to illustrate my point.

I bought a 5200mAh/ 40C cell from Hong Kong for £30, including post in January. The price has risen recently to about £50. In the UK, BRCA approved cells of the same size are about £100. I fail to see why I should pay double.

Further, as I'm never going to win the Scottish Championship, but am there for the enjoyment and camaraderie (oh...and to beat Thomas and Jim:p) is this cost be justified? I think not.



Regarding your batteries specifically.
It's not just about cheap, it's about protecting investment during competition.

With the EB list:
If I get a list of batteries in January from the BRCA, this list is produced only once a year. In January, I can buy 2 batteries for competition, knowing they'll perform to similar capabilities as almost all the batteries on the list.

So I spend £200 to race the entire season. I know they'll be competitive for a dozen meetings at least, and will continue after that for years.

If we didn't have the EB list:
If I could order any battery, at any time, then as soon as I'd spent £200 in January, if a whizzy new battery appeared in February offering 20% more speed, I'd have to buy it to compete.

And so it goes on and on all year. That's the way it used to be, and we don't want to back to those bad old days.

Regards different levels of competition:
We need different levels so beginners aren't severely challenged with budget, tech skills and ability - they can get going and enjoy it.
But we also need to have Club, Regional, National and International Competitions, so as we get better, we can face and take on increasing challenges.

With these other competitions come the need to have tighter controls on budget, as they become more important. It's ok to have lesser restrictions on club racing for instance, as it's not important enough to have the best stuff, but you'll see now with each increase in competition, so does the benefit if you throw a chequebook at it.

If we leave Regionals open, it will not actually be cheaper, but more expensive. And the person that suffers most, is the person who has the talent, who could win, but can't keep up with the extra spend of the "chequebook racers"...

I may have just fully justified why you will hopefully be buying your batteries from the EB list in January.... (and wait for the 2011 list before buying).

[Mr Eccleston]

I've spoken to John Allan, date for the 2011 AGM is Saturday 5th February @2pm, venue to be confirmed.

Going to try and find a small public house close to NORA that we can grab some food from 1pm before the meeting starts at 2pm.

If you have discussion points please use the seperate discussion thread.

[kyoshogit]

2.00pm........is the venue known yet?

[Mr Eccleston]

Venue just booked, it is:

The Olive Tree Restaurant
Dunfermline

http://www.come.to/olive.tree

Parking is at the back of the building.

The deal is we need the majority to have a bar lunch there between 1pm and 2pm. We can then stay in the room for the couple of hours we need for the agm. There is a bar available but I guess most people will be on soft drinks.

For a single course bar lunch you are looking at less than £5, for 3 courses it's £7.50.

Directions are on the website, but basically it is at the front of the venue we used to use for the Scottish Carpet Championships.

Tried other venies, but they were quoting £20-30 per hour for the room, and food was £15+ per head, if anyone wants to put there hand up to pay the bill...........

See you there on Saturday.

[Racing Snake]

Sorry folks but something has come up that now means I cannot make it this Saturday (family commitments).

Can we re-arrange for next Sunday morning at the Falkirk Club?

I know what you said about not having it the same day as racing Derek but this way I can guarantee people turning up, whereas at the moment I know of a large number of people who can't make it this Saturday.

Also racing will be free next Sunday so it is not seen as me trying to get money into the club.

The aim is:

Sunday 13th February
SORRC AGM
Bowhouse Community Center
Grangemouth
Skye Court

At 10am

[bigchris]

I can attend this , and would prefer this as I can't make Saturday

[Mr Eccleston]

Guys, keep an eye on this forum tonight, I've tried to contact John this morning but no reply. Next week is no good for a number of racers either. At the moment I've no idea if the AGM is on tomorrow, next week or some other time in the future.

Hopefully once we have a committee/team this won't happen.

[Racing Snake]

Guys, keep an eye on this forum tonight, I've tried to contact John this morning but no reply. Next week is no good for a number of racers either. At the moment I've no idea if the AGM is on tomorrow, next week or some other time in the future.

Hopefully once we have a committee/team this won't happen.


Derek you have had replies from me as I've been texting you all day with regards to this so do not belittle me!!

As I have stated the AGM will be next Sunday at 10am at the Falkirk Club as I have been consider my daughters safety, my own & the others who are going to have to travel in the current weather conditions which personally I would are rather dangerous.

This AGM was brought about to try & improve on the good work achieved last year by Dom, NOT to stress me out or make my life difficult


If it is so wished the I STAND DOWN as the scottish rep. then please have a list of names written up asking for me to do so. If the majority of racers would like me to stand down then I'll happily stand aside

regards
John Allan

[scotoap]

Thats great John, that would mean I can get there too mate after my long absence:)

[Donutt]

Hi John.

Sent you a PM just with a few ideas, hope they help with what appears to be a difficult period just now. It's a PITA, I know, trying to keep everyone happy, so maybe there's something constructive there to help out.


To all:
Here's to a great 2011, with everyone doing a wee bit to keep things going forward. It would be great to see something that everyone can be proud of and say that they had a hand in creating.

Looking forward to the AGM, and to see how the new season is going to shape up.

I don't think I can make next Sunday (13th) as it's not a lot of time for me to get things rescheduled. It'll take me 2 or 3 weeks to get things juggled around.

Of course, Dundee will be very keen to run a round this year, as we are actively trying to promote Off-road at our club, but we still have a great attendance of Touring Cars and Mardaves. Our club is actually growing, and it would be good to continue that.

Hopefully the rescheduled AGM will be on a date that everyone can attend and that we (Dundee) can attend and to get a round, to really evelate our off-road section.

And we have really big plans for 2012!!! Biggest event in Scotland, guaranteed! More details towards the end of the year....

[bigchris]

so whats happening - did this go ahead today?

[scotoap]

so whats happening - did this go ahead today?
I have presumed its next sunday 13th at 10.00am Chris, see you there mate if its confirmed:confused: from reading Johns reply

Thanks John I have deleted the wrong date now:blush:

[Racing Snake]

Guys,

First things first after reading some emails etc the AGM will be the 27th February @ 12pm @ the Bowhouse Community Center, Skye Court, Grangemouth

Only details posted by myself the BRCA Rep. for Scotland are deemed to be official!!



Things up for discussion:



Whether we need a SORRC committee or not
Any points that have been raised on oople in the AGM Proposals thread
How entries to the SORRC will be dealt with ie entry form or same as last year
Marshaling with regards to racers competing in both 2wd & 4wd classes
Which club will be hosting which round
End Of Season Finals (F2's, Vets & F3, 4, 5's)


With regards to whether we run to the Electric Board rules or not then this matter is not up for discussion as rules 24 & 25 of the "1/10th Electric Off-Road Rules 2011" clearly states that only motors & batteries on the EB Homologation list(s) are allowed to be used at sanctioned events. Now this will not be easy to check with the ever increasing numbers & the lack of people not racing that can help with such checks, so spot checks will be carried out at each round of the championship.

[kyoshogit]

Nearly 3 weeks notice....good. Common sense.

[Racing Snake]

1/10th Off-road Calendar 2011


10 Apr 2011 Rd1 Falkirk (SORRC)

16/17 Apr 2011 Rd1 Stotfold (BRCA)

24 Apr 2011

1 May 2011 Rd2 Venue TBC (SORRC)

7/8 May 2011 Rd2 Robin Hood Raceway (BRCA)

15 May 2011

22 May 2011 Rd3 Venue TBC (SORRC)

28/29 May 2011 Rd3 Talywain (BRCA)

5 Jun 2011

12 Jun 2011 Rd4 Venue TBC (SORRC)

18/19 Jun 2011 Rd4 Kidderminster (BRCA)

26 Jun 2011

3 Jul 2011 Rd5 Venue TBC (SORRC) Entry closing date for EOS (for getting entries too me)

9/10 Jul 2011 Rd5 Oswestry (BRCA)

17 Jul 2011

24 Jul 2011 Rd6 Venue TBC (SORRC)

31 Jul 2011

7 Aug 2011

13/14 Aug 2011 Rd6 Southport (BRCA)

21 Aug 2011 Rd7 Venue TBC (SORRC)

28 Aug 2011

3/4 Sep 2011 Jnr, Vet. & F2 Silverstone (BRCA)

17/18 Sep 2011 F345 Finals Coventry (BRCA)

[jonnyb]

Guys,

First things first after reading some emails etc the AGM will be the 27th February @ 12pm @ the Bowhouse Community Center, Skye Court, Grangemouth

Only details posted by myself the BRCA Rep. for Scotland are deemed to be official!!



Things up for discussion:



Whether we need a SORRC committee or not
Any points that have been raised on oople in the AGM Proposals thread
How entries to the SORRC will be dealt with ie entry form or same as last year
Marshaling with regards to racers competing in both 2wd & 4wd classes
Which club will be hosting which round
End Of Season Finals (F2's, Vets & F3, 4, 5's)
With regards to whether we run to the Electric Board rules or not then this matter is not up for discussion as rules 24 & 25 of the "1/10th Electric Off-Road Rules 2011" clearly states that only motors & batteries on the EB Homologation list(s) are allowed to be used at sanctioned events. Now this will not be easy to check with the ever increasing numbers & the lack of people not racing that can help with such checks, so spot checks will be carried out at each round of the championship.

does being brca rep entitle you to all decisions:confused: in scottish racing,thought that reps were only go-betweens from them and scottish racers. sounds like buggys are going to the lead class of racing in scotland yet again (hoooray) you will have boys from all over scotland ,so in the past committee's have worked best so that not one person is being left to do everything or they dictate what they believe on everyone else! afterall its all about everyone . this is only my opinion , i have raced different class of r/c cars since i was eleven , and have seen many things. if everyone can put their heads together theres no reason for a very competitve series:thumbsup: that all can enjoy,

would like to add though that i think john and guys at falkirk have done first class job in keeping this class of racing going when people opted for tourers. i went to falkirk club 4? years ago with my rc10 and i can honestly say this was my best and most enjoyable days racing for years!!

[Racing Snake]

The idea for a committee is a good one but as I've been told by much higher authorities as the BRCA rep. for scotland it is my choice whether to have a committee to help me out or back me up. I'm not trying to put anyone's noses out of joint, I'm just trying to do what I think is right for the championship.

That being:



that I feel 8 rounds are too many (7 being a good compromise)
the calendar as it is is spread evenly with a nice gap between rounds so that it doesn't kill racers hunger to go & race. Also to allow for time to order parts & fix cars if/when breakages happen


Also at the moment as for making decision then YES I make them but for now that's the way it is.
However the plan for a committee is that the clubs who choose to host a round of the championship will automatically get a committee position, that way no one club will have multiple committee members so keeping things fair hopefully. As the Scottish Rep. though I will still have the deciding say on any issue.

I am only trying to do what is best for you the racers & considering that last year was the first serious comeback of 1/10th off-road racing in Scotland then I don't want us trying to go from taking baby steps to doing the 100m sprint.

The BRCA 1/10th Off-Road National Championship is our BENCH MARK too achieve & if we can get a third as good as the set up for them then we (Scotland) will have a great regional championship but it will take time so be patient

You can't please everyone all of the time

[kyoshogit]

Since this is starting at midday, is there any food at the hall, or somewhere nearby to get some?

[Racing Snake]

there's a McDonalds about 5mins drive from the hall.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Skye+Court&daddr=Earlsgate+Filling+Station,+Falkirk+Road,+Gra ngemouth&hl=en&geocode=FaiUVgMdDEbH_yl9KtBJrHmISDER33LA8HSnaw%3BF fSsVgMdOtLG_yHid_eX_NSbWA&mra=ls&sll=56.011464,-3.746381&sspn=0.002471,0.006856&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=14

the McDonalds is right next to the BP petrol station