Scottish 1/10th offroad AGM proposals

[Racing Snake]

Please post any proposals you have about next years championship in this thread, the more the better

[raymondkerr]

two class championship, 2WD and 4WD, seperate points running in their own heats (not mixed).

both classes to be run in one day (sunday) 4 rounds and 3-leg A finals. Trophies for the top 3 in each final, if funds allow. £10 for one class, £15 if running both classes on the day.

Maybe a mix of indoor and outdoor venues. I think Ayr might be able to host an indoor round, and we know Falkirk are good for both indoor and out. Stonehaven, hopefully NORA, with their new outdoor venue. What about Dundee, do they have a possible indoor venue ?

6 Rounds with 4 to count.
:)

[orinoco]

deleted

[Donutt]

I propose we vote in a Championship Manager, with a supporting team of 3-5 people, rather than a voting committee.

CM would then run the group as a working team; CM listens to advice and suggestions but has authority to get the job done and make decisions. This team would organise and run the championship.

The power and authority this will give, will give great drive and impetus to the Championship, but needs to be controlled by the racers. Therefore I'm also proposing that an Emergency General Meeting can be called by petition presented to the Scottish BRCA Rep, with representation by 66% of the current season's participants.

BRCA Rep & CM, along with senior representative of petitioners, must agree venue, date and time of the EGM, within 2 weeks of acceptance of the petition or prior to next Championship round - whichever is sooner. BRCA Rep must accept a petition signed or with the agreement of 66% or more of the current season's participants.

As long as there are 66% of the current season's participants in attendance at this meeting, then they have the power to remove any or all of the Championship Team, if they carry the vote with more than 50% of the total of the championship attendance.

That'll give the Championship Manager the power to make decisions quickly, have a small committee to delegate work to, but with the viewpoint that he or she needs to keep the majority happy with their decisions.

If the right person is in this CM role and they are given the authority to get the job done, then the Championship will grow very quickly and very strongly. Plus, the drivers have the authority and mechanism to remove that authority if it's not doing the job to the majority's satisfaction.

Obviously to achieve this, the BRCA Rep & the Championship Manager, cannot be the same person.

And I would also politely decline from accepting any suggestion that I stand for either position. I cannot commit time or resource to managing this at present.

I do strongly believe that this is the correct way to run the championship, as long as appropriate controls are also in place.

[Donutt]

I'd also recommend that the Championship Manager has budget control.

Someone else in the committee does the treasury stuff and accounting for it, but the CM decides, and passes the receipts to the Treasurer to prepare the financial information for publication. We all need to see it’s all above board.

CM collects 50% of all race fees. Of that 50%, they have up to 30% to spend on trophies, 10% to spend on promotion, 20% to spend on expenses, and attempt to retain 40% or £1000 in the bank.

The SORC race fee should be twice the usual amount of club fees, which I think on average in Scotland is about £5 per class. This will maintain usual club revenue at an SORC event, and will also allow the SORC to collect these monies to;
• Provide trophies
• Run the Championship
• Promote it
• Provide incentive for other clubs to also run Off-road cars (see next proposal).

The other half of the SORC race fee goes to pay for administration and trophies, as well as promotion of the series, such as websites, forums, advertising, expenses.

[Donutt]

Of the funds collected from Race Fees, anything not spent over the year, is levied back to the clubs. The amount paid back is based on the number of clubs running events, and each club receives one portion. The idea is that if a big club holds two rounds, the extra levy gathered, is equally shared amongst all clubs.

The goal is that a small amount of extra revenue gets spread out to smaller clubs, helping grow off-road racing in places it isn't currently, plus it encourages clubs to promote off-road and get their members to attend Regionals.

I'd also go further, and say that if any club
• apply for a round , whether accepted or not, and
• has more than 3 of their members attend the pre-requisite number of qualifying rounds, and
• run more than 5 off-road club events per year
would also be eligible for a End of Season payout from the Levy pot.
All clubs have to meet these criteria, to be eligible for a share in the Levy Pot.

This would really make all off-road clubs get involved with and support the SORC series. I'm sure many of the other clubs would start running off-road cars, just to get a payout at the end of the season!
Clubs running a round get a full portion, clubs unsuccessfully applying with the other pre-requisites in place, get half-portion.

Here’s an example of how it would break down, based on 30 drivers at every round, 8 rounds, held by 5 clubs, with 2 others applying.
Race Fees are £10 per class, per round.

Applications from: Falkirk, Stonehaven, Dunfermline, EK, Ayr, Dundee, Grampian, Carlisle.
Falkirk, Stonehaven & Dunfermline to run 2 rounds each, EK & Ayr to run one round together, Grampian to run the other. For various reasons, other applications are refused a round of the series.

Year 1
Total race fees = 30 * 8 * 10 = £2,400
Levy collected = 50% = £1,200
Trophies = 21% = £250
Promotion = 8% = £100
Expenses = 12.5% = £150
Retention = 40% = £480

So out of £1200, we spend £980. That leaves £220 for EOS Levy Payout.
We see that 5 clubs held a round (EK & Ayr combined to hold one round, that represents 1 portion).
We have 2 clubs who applied and weren’t granted rounds. Lets say both clubs had 3 representatives at the prerequisite number of events.

5 * 1 portion + 2 * 0.5 portion = 6 portions.
We divide £220 by 6 = £36.66 (we leave a penny in the bank!)
Falkirk, Stonehaven & Dunfermline receive £36.66 (so each of these clubs made £300 + £36.66, over the season)
EK & Ayr receive to share £36.66 (they made £150 + £36.66; £93.33 each)
Grampian receive £36.66 (they made £150 + 36.66)
Dundee receive £18.33
Carlisle receive £18.33

Nothing to be sniffed at. The clubs holding a round make money, but also the bigger clubs able to run more than one round, are helping promote off-road racing at smaller clubs. Once we have £1000 in the bank, then we have more money to pay out in later years.

You’ll see that this encourages all clubs to run 5 off-road events a year, have 3 of their members compete at the pre-requisite number of events, and benefits most the clubs that don’t do off-road that much at present. And if a club starts to take the p!ss out of the system, then we give them a round of the championship to run – see how serious they really are! They have to apply to get the levy. If they turn down the acceptance, they don’t get any levy! That keeps it all under control.

Year 2
Lets say Falkirk, Dunfermline and Stonehaven run 2 rounds each, Ayr 1, EK 1, and Grampian, Dundee and Carlisle are unsuccessful. This year, we now get 40 at every event.

Total race fees = 40 * 8 * 10 = £3,200
Levy collected = 50% = £1,600
Trophies = 17% = £275
Promotion = 5% = £80
Expenses = 6% = £95
Levy Pot = £1150
LY Retention = £480
Total Levy Pot (minus 40% or £1000) = £630

That leaves £1000 in the bank, and £630 for EOS Levy Payout.
We have 5 clubs getting 1 portion, 3 clubs receiving 0.5 portions

5 * 1 portion + 3 * 0.5 portion = 6.5 portions.

We divide £630 by 6.5 = £96.92
Falkirk, Stonehaven & Dunfermline each receive £96.92 (so each of these clubs made £400 + £96.92, over the season)
EK & Ayr each receive £96.92 (they made £200 + £96.92 each, over the season)
Grampian, Dundee and Carlisle each receive £48.46


In this example, this doesn’t take a lot of money away from Falkirk, Stonehaven or Dunfermline. EK & Ayr get a little extra, and Grampian, Dundee and Carlisle are encouraged to keep applying and pushing people to race at Regionals/Nationals. Keeps it all big and healthy.

And the Championship has £1000 in the bank to cover when attendances go down, keeping the event the same each year, in terms of status and quality.

[Donutt]

I also propose that if a Championship Team is elected at the AGM, or a regular voting committee, that this Team make and decide the following:

Rules for the Championship
Fees, Trophies, etc
Number of Rounds, Classes
Prerequisite Facilites from each club


They should publish this list on an Application Form and invite any and all clubs not participating in a Regional Off-Road Series, to apply to run a round (or two?) of the Scottish Off-Road Regional Championship.

That way, the Team are free to choose who holds a round of the Championship. It'll be the onus of the applying club, to outline the facilities and benefits of their club and to prove why they should be granted a round of the series. Plus it will documented fully on the Round application form the charges, rules, facilities, etc that will be expected.

This will allow the Championship Team to maintain the same quality over all events and all participants can expect the same procedure, same conditions when travelling around all events in the Series.

These criteria would cover;

rules (BRCA with specific modifications for Scottish?)
timing (gaps between rounds, heats, finals, start, end,)
organisation (procedures, scrutineering, transmitter control, appeals process (if any), etc)
facilities (track marking and what can/can't be used), rostrum, safety, etc


I don't think it's appropriate to decide number of rounds, formats, etc by forum posts and individual personal preferences. It'll depend on the number of participants, the amount of time on the day, the limitations of finances over every application, etc.

Hence the reason for this proposal and to leave it to the Championship Team to create a uniform and consistent championship across all venues and with all kinds of timing restrictions that will arise from that choice.

[Mr Eccleston]

two class championships run on same day, 2wd & 4wd,
both classes run on same day in seperate heats, points etc.

Race fees £10 for as many classes as you want, no discount for host club members. This will hopefuly encourage people to race more than 1 car.
If members want trophies then race fees would need to be increased to £15. Entries would close 1 week prior to event to allow trophies to be ordered.

Events should be run outdoors only over the summer. If track is unraceable due to weather then indoors would be an option.

The SORC should have limited funds (basically enough to provide championship trophy for each class), funds should go to the clubs that organise the meetings, clubs to promote the series etc. Host clubs will donate £20 per round held to SORC to cover purchase of Championship Trophies in the first year, with this figure reviewed at the next AGM.
Every club should use funds raised from holding a round to promote the series on their club website in a obvious way,

SORC committee to consist of Chairman, Treasurer, Secretary, BRCA Regional Rep, plus 1 member from each host club. This committee to resolve issues during the year. The host club to run their round as per the rules. Every person that races in the series is classed as a member, 1 vote per round attended.

Rules should be as close the BRCA rules as possible, obviously need to get a copy for 2011. Rules to be agreed by all members at the AGM.

Series to be run on a database shared between clubs with contact details for members, this will allow information to be shared with members. Championship series and abilities should be maintained via the one common database in the race control software to help with consistancy
.
Future AGM dates should be February so that latest information is available prior to season starting. There are also a number of AGM's at this time of year.

Hopefully all the technical rules will be covered by the BRCA.

[Conrad]

What about Dundee, do they have a possible indoor venue ?

We are still trying to sort out weekend booking with the school/council but if we can get through the earth shatteringly slow response's from everyone then we would be happy to hold a round indoors but it would have to be before/after the summer holidays, obviously.

Dom, if you fancy taking on an outdoor round for Dundee and can find a venue I'm sure the committee will back it and we could scrounge up a few volunteer's.

[Racing Snake]

Weather related issue.

I believe this may be in the BRCA handbook but can't remember:

should the weather be bad enough to cause the meeting to be shorted that with it being a championship that it would be finals that are sacrificed.

The reason for this is that the aim is for the drivers to achieve the highest position/points & qualifying allows this not finals.


Qualifying

due to the UK's climate qualifying should be Round By Round for outdoors & FTQ for indoors to get a fair outcome

As Raymond has stated:

qualifying = 4 rounds
finals = 2 legs (for all until we can achieve enough entrants to allow 1 leg finals with the 'A' being 3 legs)

Tyres

Only tyres that are commercially available should be used during the championship but to make this more manageable that two choice for the rear axle are stated

eg:



schumacher mini-spike
ballistic buggy spike

Note: these would be the outdoor options to be controlled on the rear axle



schumacher mini-spike
schumacher mini-pin

Note: these would be the indoor options controlled on the rear axle

Scrutineering



tyres checked
weight checked
width checked (if a box is available or can be made cheaply)
LiPo voltage checked - Max. voltage being 8.40volts


Championship Entry

That entry to the championship is up front using an entry form like the national championships use allow you to select the rounds you wish to enter. This would save time & allow for heats to be created prior to the race meeting.

Entries on the day still acceptable but those who do so shall be placed into the bottom heat no matter what their ability is. This is to promote entering early

[Mr Eccleston]

Something to consider if we go down the trophy root, is that if entries are accepted after a set date (i.e. when the trophies are ordered) it is invariably the younger drivers that don't get a trophy if those that book in late mean we need to create an extra final. Clubs would potentially have to supply extra trophies just in case they get a surge in entries near the meeting date.

[dasbo]

Just a quickie,

I don't want to exclude certain clubs, but since we race indoors over the winter, I think the championship rounds should always be outdoors.

[Racing Snake]

Quoting this from the AGM thread:

"I think common-sense should prevail. :) You can over complicate the simple and remove the enjoyment of competition.

Having said that I think there should be a control tyre. One make/one style/one compound. It might be different for different locations, but it would reduce costs and create a level playing field.

Also, given the rising cost of racing and the decresasing value of my wage, I question the need to have BRCA approved batteries etc. The costs might put people off racing. Surely, it's better to have full races, and frankly does it really make a difference?

Martyn and Tom."


TYRES


We cannot control the compound of tyre people use as weather/track conditions determine the compound you need to use & that can change from race to race.
With regards to tyres in scotland we only really use either schumacher mini-spikes in yellow for the dry & green for the damp/wet or ballistics buggy spikes in green wet/dry

A set of ballistics, if you only used them at the SORC, would probably last you a full season but you wouldn't always be competitive as schuey yellow mini-spikes in dry conditions would be quicker.

On a dry day a single set of schuey yellows would probably last a full day on a grass track.
Shuey greens also would last a good length of time as the conditions they get used in tends to be less abrasive than the dry. If used in correctly again they could last a full season

The exception will probably be the NORA track once up & running as ASTRO-TURF can cause a high wear rate on tyres. I have also been to tracks where the surface is ASTRO-TURF & the tyre wear has been very low. In some cases as well worn tyres are better than new tyres.

BATTERIES

The electric board team at the BRCA generate a list of electronic components which with the help of the manufacturers they deem fit for use at BRCA sanctioned events.

Please refer to pages 27-35 of the 2010 BRCA Handbook.

Homologation list is on www.BRCA.org

With the Scottish Offroad Chamionship being a BRCA sanctioned event then we are supposed to adhere to this list & the rules of the BRCA. With the championship just getting back on it's feet in Scotland I don't want to ram the rules down every bodies throat & I hope to ease the rules upon the championship over the next 2 seasons, but the aim is to run the championship to the full BRCA rules by at latest 2013

[Racing Snake]

To keep costs down I would suggest that if people want trophies then that these are championship trophies handed out at the end of the year & not at ever meeting.

[Mr Eccleston]

I propose the following:

We adopt the BRCA 2011 100% as our regional rules.

Note: There is a rule that you cannot use tyres to mark track, Stonehaven may want to consider this.

(Update, got a solution to this so shouldn't be a problem)


No clubs that host a round of the Scottish Off Road series will hold a club meeting on the same day at the same time for the same class i.e. 1/10th electric off road.

Note: To promote the series fully and hopefully gain the maximum number of participants there should be no alternatives.



Heats for round 1 of the 2011 series 1 should be decided from last years finishing position in each class. If position is tied, then ability is used next.

[Mr Eccleston]

To ensure all points I would like to discuss are officially brought up at the AGM I have detailed some points below:
I feel with the success of the off road racing scene in Scotland last year, and the obvious growth we appear to have had over the winter months, I strongly believe we need to have a regional club organizing the racing in Scotland, if fact I don’t see it as optional, it’s going to be to much work for one person. Don’t take it the wrong way, I think last year was good, and well done to those that made it happen, but there are certainly opportunities to make it a lot better. Looking at the information available I thought the Sport Scotland (the national agency for sport) website had some excellent information

http://www.helpforclubs.org.uk/How+to+start+a+sports+club.htm (http://www.helpforclubs.org.uk/How+to+start+a+sports+club.htm)

I think we are at stage 4, we are not a small club (less than 10), and would therefore benefit from a small committee and a basic constitution. The benefit of the committee is that the workload is shared, and everyone knows who is responsible for upholding the rules we agree to. The BRCA already has a club constitution template and I would suggest this is used as a starting point.

http://domain3190026.sites.fasthosts.com/BRCA/library/Constitution%20CASC%20ver%202.doc (http://domain3190026.sites.fasthosts.com/BRCA/library/Constitution%20CASC%20ver%202.doc)

I would suggest that a possible Committee would consist of Chairman, Treasurer, Secretary, Club Reps & BRCA Rep. I think this is the only way forward to ensure a balanced approach and maximizing the input from all host clubs so that we can make a significant improvement to the off road scene in 2011.

To keep it simple I would suggest that we follow the BRCA 1/10th electric off road rules to run our outdoor series as per our parent body. I think there are a number of points that would need to be discussed, namely:
As a region are we in strong enough position to turn drivers away that want to race, but don’t have EB lipo’s and motors. How would we stand regarding insurance. Well I’ve done some research and it’s not really an issue, just a little common sense and we can really see this regional series grow in numbers.

Motors, as we run to modified rules then there’s no problem, all our current motors and RTR version could potentially be legal.
Do we want to limit the tyre choice as per the National rules, again do we have enough racers to be selective, or could we limit the tyre choice to the National tyres plus those that are supplied in RTR kits. I doubt anyone would see an advantage here. The advantage of limiting the tyres is that you only need a small amount of tyres, no need to carry every single available tyre, thus reducing costs.

Should we only allow clubs to hold a round of the series if they do not put a club meeting on at the same time (for 1/10th electric off road), after all we want to encourage racers to attend our regional series. The BRCA do exactly the same at National level, you don’t have to choose between Nationals and Regionals, should you have to choose between a Regional and a club series.

I think that we should also look into how we are going to promote the sport so that we can grow again next year. One possible avenue is the Scottish Motor Show, probably our biggest opportunity to promote the sport. This is planned for the weekend of 21st & 22nd May.

I think we need to look into how we accept entries, I don’t think we need anything like central booking, but perhaps a simple email and txt system would be sufficient. Entries on the day would be fine as well, but I think they should automatically be placed in the bottom heat. Something else to discuss is what should be done regarding not actually paying for an entry i.e. not turning up. I would think that it would be perfectly acceptable to cancel an entry up until 9:30pm the day before a meeting, surely by that time anyone would know if they intend to go the next day. There would of course be exceptions, bit of common sense required.

On a similar topic, I would suggest we need to agree on race fees, and I would suggest that the current £10 per day is sufficient for the clubs as there is minimal outlay. This would also ensure that the large number of people that have two cars would not be put off racing both of them on the same day due to cost. It will be far better for us to look busy with lots of cars racing, as well as allowing more heats so that marshalling is not a problem.

Regarding prizes, I would suggest that it would be nice if we could have an annual cup for each class to compete for, as well as potentially trophies at the end of the series. This would obviously need funding, and I would suggest that each round that we run donates £20 to a central fund, this would be sufficient to purchase four large cups (2wd/4wd junior/senior). I would also suggest that if we decide to have end of series trophies for racers, that we have a £5 membership fee per class, this would effectively pay for the trophies. This would also give the regional club minimum funds to worry about, we don’t need a large cash revenue as ideally we would want the funds to go to the clubs so that our facilities are available to all club racers every week.

I think another point to discuss is how we are going to sort heats during the series. I would suggest that at the first round we sort heats on last year’s finishing positions, then F grades, then ability. For remaining rounds I would suggest that we adjust each class of car against the top performer on the day, as well as updating the overall championship positions. These rounds heats should then be calculated on ability, and in the event of a tie the current championship position is used.
Regarding the actual race day, I think we should be aiming to start the first qualifying heat at 10:00am as a guide.
I think we need to make more use of the available software i.e BBK. I think to aid communication we should have contact details (email and phone numbers) stored, as well as using it to maintain the championship points table, and producing web results which should be available for any host club to host. This is very quick to do, and a good way of promoting what we do, as well as letting drivers check their lap-times and championship positions very quickly.

Anyway, just some thought s, all of the above are seconded by either James Collins or Colin Nicholson (take your pick), and I will 2nd any of their suggestions so that they are available for discussion on the day.

I’ll see you on the day, and will be available as always to advise on any matters to help the series.

Regards
Derek Kerr
BRCA Association Rep. for Scotland.