petrol / diesel ripp off

[bigred5765]

Found in another forum seems like a good idea
Hi guys
See what you think of this idea and pass it on if you agree with it. We are hitting 99p a litre in some areas now, soon we will be faced with paying over £1 a ltr.

How's this for a good idea: This makes MUCH MORE SENSE than the 'don't buy petrol on a certain day campaign that was going around last April or May! The oil companies just laughed at that because they knew we wouldn't continue to hurt ourselves by refusing to buy petrol. It was more of an inconvenience to us than it was a problem for them. BUT, whoever thought of this idea, has come up with a plan that can really work. Please read it and join in! Now that the oil companies and the OPEC nations have conditioned us to think that the cost of a litre is CHEAP, we need to take aggressive action to teach them that BUYERS control the market place not sellers.

With the price of petrol going up more each day, we consumers need to take action. The only way we are going to see the price of petrol come down is if we hit someone in the pocket by not purchasing their Petrol! And we can do that WITHOUT hurting ourselves. Here's the idea: For the rest of this year DON'T purchase ANY petrol from the two biggest oil companies (which now are one), ESSO and BP. If they are not selling any petrol, they will be inclined to reduce their prices. If they reduce their prices, the other companies will have to follow suit. But to have an impact we need to reach literally millions of Esso and BP petrol buyers. It's really simple to do!! Now, don't wimp out on me at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!! I am sending this note to a lot of people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on. By the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all You have to do is send this to 10 people. That's all.(and not buy at ESSO/BP) How long would all that take? If each of us sends this email out to ten more people within one day of receipt, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next 8 days!!! Acting together we can make a difference If this makes sense to you, please pass this message on. PLEASE HOLD OUT UNTIL THEY LOWER THEIR PRICES TO THE 69p a LITRE RANGE It's easy to make this happen. Just forward this email, and buy your petrol at Shell, Asda, Tesco, Salisbury's, Morrison's Jet etc. i.e. boycott BP and Esso

copy and paste this to as many people/ forums as you can guys and lets screw em over instead of the other way round!!

[Kopite]

The supermarkets buy their petrol from the likes of Esso, BP and Shell anyway....

[footey]

is a really good idea and i would be up for it but i run a company van and my company only give me a card for bp :mad:

but hope everyone else will do :)

[cmgreen]

The supermarkets buy their petrol from the likes of Esso, BP and Shell anyway....

They May do, but i dont think so. If you have a derv, try sainsburys derv then shell, back to back tank. I would never fill up with sainsburys even it were 10p per ltr cheaper.

[RLGfx]

can't say there's an esso or BP garage too local to me anyway, besides, I only tend to put Shell V-Power in mine...

[Lee Martin]

fuels already over £1 a litre some places here!

[Lee]

The supermarkets DO buy the fuel from shell etc.

You never see an asda refinery do you:D

[losixxx]

think they do, filled up at tesco's tuesday night and had to weight a few minutes till the BP tanker moved!!

[Alfonzo]

Surely the vast majority of the cost of fuel is tax? So it's not the oil companies you need to target if you want the overall price bringing down.

[Southwell]

I filled up at 101.9 other day. £58 for a tank!

[DCM]

I won't complain that my LPG has gone up 5p a litre to 45.9p then......

[Southwell]

Yeah but you still had the initial outlay for the equipment ;)

[DCM]

Ian, when i had it fitted, i was paying 29.9p a litre, and at 18mpg round town in the people carrier, it didn't take long(about 13 months) to pay for itself.

[Southwell]

Alright smartypants ;) 18mpg :O thats nuts, you get that from a proper sports car!

[DCM]

it's a renault, so it never runs perfectly anyway..... and it is an 8v 2000cc where I should of got the V6.... worst, i can get the same mpg out of a V8 landrover....

[vader]

http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/38270_SW_tiefighter.jpg
(http://www.fantastic-plastic.com/38270_SW_tiefighter.jpg)

[BelstenToo]

worst, i can get the same mpg out of a V8 landrover....
I dreamt of getting that high an mpg out of my v8 110 landy, it averaged around 13mpg :(
the sound made up for it though :cool::D

[DCM]

got to be an EFi Pete, and you were a bit of an animal... especialy with your scimitar!!!

[losidan]

Surely the vast majority of the cost of fuel is tax? So it's not the oil companies you need to target if you want the overall price bringing down.

i once read that 97% of fuel price is tax....LPG is not cheaper it just isnt taxed as hard which is why the pump price is lower.

[tc2k]

Actually, I believe that yes it is taxed less, but also, it is cheaper as basically. The oil companies usually just burn the LPG off as its basically the byproduct of producing the petrol so instead of burning it, then can get rid of it for profit so its probably cheaper.

[losidan]

Actually, I believe that yes it is taxed less, but also, it is cheaper as basically. The oil companies usually just burn the LPG off as its basically the byproduct of producing the petrol so instead of burning it, then can get rid of it for profit so its probably cheaper.

aha...I see

[losixxx]

i'd be more than happy for it to be £2 per litre, just think how many clubcard points i could get with my company fuel card doing 30k a year:D

[Northy]

Isn't petrol a bi-product of something to?

G

[tc2k]

No, as petrol is the intended product, a byproduct is something that is usually not used, hence cheaper LPG

[Col]

I dreamt of getting that high an mpg out of my v8 110 landy, it averaged around 13mpg :(
the sound made up for it though :cool::D

I once had a renault that averaged 14mpg, and could be got as low as 2mpg if driven in the manor it was intended!
Oh, and that's with leaded petrol, additives and the like - made it approx £1.60 a litre...

[showtime]

well i've been paying £1:06.9 for super for a few weeks now :mad:
even worse when you consider i have a 90 litre tank to fill up & at an average of 17mpg that happens more often than i'd like it to :(

[banksy]

filled up the other day and it cost me £87.50 for the tank. Why are you moaning about £58. Fuel costs are a b##ch.

[sosidge]

Thinking about this topic a bit more, I think the original statement was written by someone that works for Shell...

Why target Esso and BP? Not as if they are any different to any of the other oil explorers/refiners/retailers.

If you want to stop the nations dependence on costly fossil fuels - start walking. Or get on your bike. And stop buying plastic products. And switch off your central heating. And your computer.

In fact, go live in a tent in your back garden - just don't use any gas to heat up your beans (that is generally a byproduct of the extraction of oil).

Me, I'll keep using electricity and fuel for as long as I can afford it. And when I can't I'll be living in the tent next door!

[BelstenToo]

got to be an EFi Pete, and you were a bit of an animal... especialy with your scimitar!!!

Twin SUs, just had to make sure no small children were near the airbox when you revved it! That Scimitar was economical, saw nearly 22mpg out of that!

[BelstenToo]

I once had a renault that averaged 14mpg, and could be got as low as 2mpg if driven in the manor it was intended!
Oh, and that's with leaded petrol, additives and the like - made it approx £1.60 a litre...
Ok, you win!! What renault was that, please say something fun like a 5 turbo?

[Oscar]

I dreamt of getting that high an mpg out of my v8 110 landy, it averaged around 13mpg :(
I remember as an 18yr old (with a lead foot) My Land rover with a large webber carb was returning between 6 and 8 mpg :o:o As this was shortly after the 1st gulf war, need less to say I sold it after 3 mnth:D:D:D

[DCM]

didn't they do a Maxi version of the Renault 5?

[Col]

Ok, you win!! What renault was that, please say something fun like a 5 turbo?

Certainly was, and not even all that tuned - approx 170bhp (1.4litre, 8valves, OHV, single carb engine designed in the 70's by volvo to run diesel in a small tractor...) Even with that relatively "small" amount of power it would spin it's wheels in third! Std was 0-62 in 7.2 in '89, mine was clocked at 6.1! Awesome car:)

didn't they do a Maxi version of the Renault 5?

Sure did. Was based on the phase 1 version. Believe it was a mid engined V6 turbo from the Feugo (or whatever it was called) developed for homogolation of group B rally cars? Not many built and even less around now

[showtime]

the Turbo 1 was the original race car with a few cars built for the road so the race car could be homologated for competition.
the Turbo 2 was more of a std made for the road car utilising a lot more production parts rather than lightweight special components.
the Maxi Turbo was the final variant of the car but this time built for competition, it had bigger arches etc & a slightly bigger engine (1500cc i think??) that ran a lot more boost & made up to 350 - 400BHP:o
apparently it was the best handling 2wd tarmac rally car ever made!
ever according to some!

[showtime]

shot of Maxi engine bay showing tiny 4pot engine & huge turbo :o

http://www.turbozag.com/insd-eng.jpg

the V6 engined 5 is just somebodys conversion not a production car!
i think there are vids on youtube?

some Maxi5 specs ;)

RENAULT MAXI 5 TURBO

Engine: 4-cylinder in-line with Garrett T4/T3 turbocharger - indirect fuel injection by electronically controlled Renault Sport piston pump - Marelli fully mapped "Microplex" ignition - New water pump with increased flow rate. Aluminium radiator.
Capacity 1527.4 cc
Bore - stroke 77 x 82mm
Power 350bhp at 6,500rpm
Max torque 43mkg at 5,000rpm.
Clutch: Diaphragm twin-disc. Hydraulic operation.
Gearbox: Transaxle derived from Renault 5 Turbo with 5 forward speeds + reverse. Final drive ratio 9 x 35, alternatives 8 x 35, 9 x 31 - Strengthened gears
Brakes: 4 ventilated steel discs - adjustable pedal box with two master cylinders - aviation type safety piping.
Bodywork: steel shell with aluminium and composite material elements.
Dimensions: Length 3.60m - Width 1.80m - Height 1.33m
(+0.88 aerial) - Weight: 905kg.
Performance: between 178 and 200.4kph according to gearing.

[Northy]

No, as petrol is the intended product, a byproduct is something that is usually not used, hence cheaper LPG

Are you sure? I remember an old guy telling me that they used to dump petrol in the sea because they had too much of it (as it was a by-product).

G

[DCM]

I would not think that any petrol distillation is wasted these days. LPG is a slightly refined product of what is normaly burnt off the top of the vent stack at a pertoleum plant though. my father remembers, during the war, when the millitary tool their big cut of fuel, cars were converted to run on LPG and had inflatable tanks on roof racks... scary as hell that.

[Lee]

LPG is not a by product!!!

Offshore you either have your gas platforms or the oil platforms, gas= LPG and many others, the oil platforms pull up the crude oil from the bed and from that when its distilled you get all of your paraffins, kerosine, petrol and deisel, bitumen etc, deisel is slightly dearer to make as it requires more effort/cost to remove it from the column as it is "heavier" than petrol and most others.


You get a minor amount of lpg/other gasses when extracting the black gold but nowadays because (some) of the wells do not have the pressure for the oil to flow naturally they force the gas back down to pressurise the well, this is called natural gas lift.


On a brighter note i shut down a shell (gas) platform 2 years ago for a week @ £30 million a day:D

they were not happy chappies

[b4rs]

Isn't petrol a bi-product of something to?

G

it is actually (smarty arse) lol. heres a diagram, i learnt this in science.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/oil-refining-diagram.gif


there all bi-products of crude oil.

science lesson over for today :)

[tc2k]

But Petrol is the intended product, they dont buy the oil and then go, come on then, what should we do with all this leftover petrol:rolleyes:

[SlowOne]

This is old hat, turned up in 2000 when the first action against fuel prices started. It's also rubbish! By the last count, there were only 60m of us in this country, so how would an e-mail sent to 300m people be any good?!! Oh, and only 30m cars!

From 10 Jan this year, fuel duty is 50.35p per litre. The rate for biodiesel and bioethanol is 30.35p/litre. Roughly speaking, the refinery gets about 30p, the retailer about 5p, and all that has VAT added. So, 85p (ish) plus 17.5% VAT gives us the magic £1 per litre.

HMG gets about 65p per litre tax (so, 65% duty, not 97% as mentioned earlier!) by adding a tax to a tax, and the smallest slice goes to the guy who swipes your card - except that the guy swiping the card is also the guy doing the refining, in a lot of cases!

In the USA, there is no fuel tax, so the doubling of crude oil prices has gone straight through to the pump price - $1 a gallon when all this started (2000), almost $3 a gallon now. In the same time, our pump prices have gone from 87p a litre to £1. Whinge all you like, I know which system I prefer!

Fuel tax raises about £23bn a year, out of a total Government budget of about £427bn per year, out of a GDP of about £1 trillion. I know it feels like a rip-off, but it is a flea-bite compared to income tax (30%) NI (20%) VAT (17%) and Corporation tax (8%).

If you want to get really cross about something, get cross about the fact that people who weren't born here, but live here, can claim non-domiciled status for tax purposes. This means they pay virtually no tax on their incomes (because they declare it as overseas income) - Abramovich included. The 'non-doms', as they are called, are worth about £100bn, on which they pay £14m in tax; about 1.4%. And in this last Statement, the Government said they would tax them - at £35,000 a year!

Oh, and in case you are wondering, there is no fuel tax on the aviation fuel for their private jets... :o

[Lee]

This is all very true slow one, but how did you get the 8% corporation tax? Im paying 20% as of last april when mr brown abolished composite companies and tried to make us all go p.a.y.e.

Its still a lot less than the 40% than i would pay as p.a.y.e but i would like to know where it says 8%, so i can get 12% back :D

Also if you want to save cash and you are self employed/ltd company, you can do a flat rate vat scheme. I currently charge 17.5% for my services but have an agreement with HMRC that i only pay 11.5%. So its an extra 6% or so in your pocket not theres.
Another loop hole is your reccommended to claim 40 p/mile for the first 10k of any assignment and then 25p thereafter,(tax free) but!!! still claim 40p per mile and get the 25 tax free and get taxed on the 15 p per mile, your still better off!!

[DCM]

spoken like a true politician, but lets even up things a little (except blairs buddy tax for the non-domiciled).

Tax isn't 30%, once you earn over a certain bracket, it increases from the standard base rate. We all have a tax threshold so can earn a certain amount before you pay any tax. nI isn't 20%, can't remember how much it is, but nowhere near 20%. the government chaged the income tax this year which bennefitted all those earning over i think, £20k, all those who were earning below the second tier threshold all end up paying more tax, and it is those people who can't afford the increase.

With a car, it isn't just the fuel duty, you have a tax on your insurance, your road fund licence is exorbitent (mine is £180 a year), so when they are still using Maggie Thatchers fuel tax excalator, it makes those who depend on a car for a living, a much bigger expense.

I don't do politics much, but the Labour party has done more to cripple you financialy if you are working class than any other party in the past, with stealth taxes and gordon brown spending worse than a footballers wife, under labour, we have gone from a company with manufacturing industry and a good pot of cash in the bank to a country which is closing down its industrial heritage and replacing them with call centres and a massive black hole where money falls in.

[SlowOne]

Sorry Lea, not very clear. Those presentages are the amount of the total Government income - so 30% of all Government income is income tax, and 8% of all Government income is Corporation Tax, and so on...

Fuel duty is 6% of all Government... etc. Compared to the other areas of income, it's a pretty small amount, even though we feel it every day. What's also not obvious is that every time the refinery price changes, the tax goes up because of the VAT element :sneaky:

If Income Tax had to be paid at a kiosk every week, there would be a lot more moaning about that!! It just slides out of the salary as a number on a sheet; as we've never had it, we don't see it being taken away!

I find it interesting that people moaning about taxes in this country go live in France, Spain and Italy, where taxes are even higher, because they say it is a better quality of life. And everyone talks about the Swedes' very high quality of life, and they pay the highest taxes in Europe! There's a lesson in there somewhere...

Anyway, hope that clears the %ages up for you. :)

[Lee]

Yeah but at least we have the millenium dome to be proud of:D

It does my head in paying tax but i understand it has to be done, but i pay as little as possible because i would rather see my cash benefiting those around me, instead of buying my local MP a flat in london. if you look at the road system we have at the moment, its crap, if you take the £100 average per year from all 30million vehicles on the road then thats a nice 300million to improve our roads, but no londons getting a new underground to ferry around hundreds of druggies for a few weeks in 2012:confused:

Where is the sense, the country needs more houses in affordable areas?

[DCM]

the lack of affordable housing starts back with the previous conservative government, with the 'right to buy' policy, which I have, in principle, no objection as I live in an ex-council house, but the money raised by selling them off should of been ring-fenced to creat more new community housing, and not rely on private industry to build cheap houses and sell at a massive profit.

With regard to taxes, it isn't what comes out of your wage that causes the problem in the UK, it is the tax on almost everything you buy that kills us.

[Lee]

Sorry Lea, not very clear. Those presentages are the amount of the total Government income - so 30% of all Government income is income tax, and 8% of all Government income is Corporation Tax, and so on...

Fuel duty is 6% of all Government... etc. Compared to the other areas of income, it's a pretty small amount, even though we feel it every day. What's also not obvious is that every time the refinery price changes, the tax goes up because of the VAT element :sneaky:

If Income Tax had to be paid at a kiosk every week, there would be a lot more moaning about that!! It just slides out of the salary as a number on a sheet; as we've never had it, we don't see it being taken away!

I find it interesting that people moaning about taxes in this country go live in France, Spain and Italy, where taxes are even higher, because they say it is a better quality of life. And everyone talks about the Swedes' very high quality of life, and they pay the highest taxes in Europe! There's a lesson in there somewhere...

Anyway, hope that clears the %ages up for you. :)

I understand now cheers.

Yes i was in denmark last year and norway a few weeks ago, on average in a bar you would pay £8 a pint.
I also hear what your saying if we had to go and hand over a percentage of our wages each week, there would be murder (i dont like doing it)
I think though if you add up all of our taxes we really do get hammered, like 22-40% on income, 17% on anything we buy, flights are nearly 50% tax, council tax (mine is 2.5k a year) it all adds up and how much of your net wages really go to you, even your savings are taxed when you have already paid tax when earning the cash.:wtf: